On the second installment of Tristan's Tips, our esteemed guest Tristan Layfield discusses the best day of the week to apply for a job. He also cites an interesting study. Check back next Tuesday for another tip!Tristan's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanlayfield/Layfield Resume Consulting: https://layfieldresume.com/Layfield Resume social media: IG, Twitter, FacebookTRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. Today I'm gonna let you in on a little secret - shh, don't tell anybody. We're gonna talk about the best day of the week to apply to jobs. Do you even think about what day it is when you're applying to jobs? If your answer was "no," then I was like you not too long ago. I used to apply for a new job sometimes during the week after I got off work or on the weekends when I had time. I never really thought about there being a quote-unquote "good time" to apply, but apparently research says otherwise. A study conducted by Bright.com, a job search site, looked at more than half a million job submissions and found that applicants are more likely to advance in the hiring process--A.K.A. receive an interview--if they sent their resume in on a Monday as opposed to any other day of the week. According to the study, one out of three people who applied on a Monday moved forward in the process. I'm sure you're wondering, "Well, why is Monday the best day?" Unfortunately Bright.com's study didn't really have an explanation, but one of their senior analysts hypothesized that recruiters received these resumes at the start of their work week, which means they're more likely to read them while the week is still fresh. As the week continues on, the resumes pile up and get lost in the job searching black hole we know as the recruiter's desk. Now, keep in mind, there are factors in play other than just the submission date or time. These can include industry differences and the length of time the job has been posted, not to mention a significant variable - your professional documents, like your resume and cover letter. So no matter what day or time you're applying, be sure to have your resume, cover letter, and LinkedIn ready so you don't have to get ready. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

We're thankful to be able to speak with Mentor and Mentees member Crystle Johnson as we continue with and expand on our discussion of how best to empower and advocate for black women in the workplace and why it's so important. She also talks about her exciting new job and her foundation, The Red Lip Collective!Connect with Crystle on IG and Twitter!Learn more about The Red Lip Collective! IG, TwitterTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. We actually have a very special episode, a co-branded, co-sponsored episode between Living Corporate and Mentors and Mentees. We have Crystle Johnson, a member of Mentors and Mentees, on the podcast. We're very excited to have her here today, excited to talk about her story, her journey, as we talk about supporting black women at work. Crystle, how are you doing, ma'am? Welcome to the show.Crystle: Hi, I'm doing great. I'm so happy to be here.Zach: Now, for those of us who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Crystle: Of course. So I'm an inclusion and belonging strategist, serial collaborator, and founder of the Red Lip Collective. I believe that our stories cultivate empathy, and empathy is the key to creating inclusive spaces where we can all belong and thrive. So a little bit about me early on in life is that I was adopted at 2 weeks old, and neither of my parents finished middle school. So from a really young age my parents did push me to do well, and they sacrificed a lot to ensure that I had the things that I needed to succeed. My mother was a CNA, and my father worked at the same company for nearly 50 years. The most memorable moment, or I would say example, of someone reaching their goals no matter what was actually my father. He had never learned to read or write well, but with perseverance and commitment he actually passed his CBL exam in his late 50s. He didn't give up no matter what, and I will really never forget that.Zach: That's incredible, and I love the fact that most of us, black or white frankly, but we can look back at someone in our life, in our family, who's had to overcome and persevere. At the same time, because of just the way that America is set up, definitely every black and brown person has some story of someone in their family who had to really overcome something pretty serious to really move forward. I know an example for me, my grandfather, he had--he could not read or write well either, but that didn't stop him from being extremely successful as an entrepreneur in the real estate business. And so it's the fact that we're able to kind of reach back and look at our family, look at our lineage, and see stories of resilience and adaptability, it helps us in our day-to-day to kind of overcome some of the challenges that we have and can help us really kind of keep things in perspective for some of the things that we think are so hard or so challenging. Like, you know what? There are people who came before us who had much bigger challenges who were able to be just as successful if not more successful, so I can do this too. So look, today we're talking about supporting black women at work. Can you talk a little bit about your professional journey? Maybe talk about when you did not feel supported at work and then also when you did feel supported at work and what it did for you.Crystle: Yes, for sure. So my career has been a whirlwind. So in 2013 I earned an MBA with an HR management focus, and over the next few years I would apply for many roles in HR, but because I didn't have any years of experience I was continuously rejected for these roles. And then somewhere along the way I learned that I shouldn't share my dreams or my aspirations, because if they left my lips they would never come to fruition. So at some point I decided to do something a little bit different. I hadn't been sharing my goals and aspirations, and I wasn't getting anywhere, so I decided to flip what I learned on its head and start sharing my goals and aspirations. One of the first people that I shared with was actually a leader at the organization I was working at at the time, and I've always been very ambitious, but he really let me know that I was too ambitious and that I needed to be a little more patient and lower my expectations. And although I accepted the feedback very respectfully from him, I had no intention of following it 100%, but what I did learn from that piece of advice is that I needed to be more patient with myself, because no one's career--most people's careers have not been linear. But a time when I really felt like I was supported was sometime after that I shared these goals with a black woman, who was a leader at that same organization, and she took some interest in me, and she supported me. She shared really practical tips of how I could gain experience, and most importantly she helped me to focus on one thing that was of importance to me, that I felt passionate about. So through those conversations with her I really narrowed down my area of focus as the area of diversity, equity, and inclusion. So not too long after that I landed my first role in this space at Bosch, which is a global engineering organization. I'm also excited to announce some breaking news about my career if you're interested in hearing it, Zach.Zach: Hold up. Breaking news? On the Living Corporate podcast? Come on, now!Crystle: So as of next week I'll actually be starting a new role with Pandora Media as the senior manager of diversity and inclusion.Zach: Whoa! That's crazy. Cue the air horns for that, whoa. That's crazy. Congratulations!Crystle: Thank you so much, Zach.Zach: Who are you gonna be reporting to?Crystle: So I'll be reporting to the chief diversity officer, and I'm super excited to build on the work that Pandora has already done in this space, and if you'd like to learn more about our diversity efforts, there's recently been a post on LinkedIn, actually, about an update about diversity and inclusion at Pandora. Zach: Absolutely. So we'll make sure to get that link, put it in the show notes. That's awesome. Okay, wow. So Pandora? You know, what's really interesting too is that I know that Pandora has a podcasting platform. I know that Living Corporate--we're, like, on every platform, right? Like, we're on iHeart, Stitcher, iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, but I don't think we're on Pandora yet. We need to get over there.Crystle: Yes, absolutely. Pandora actually just launched podcasts, so it would be great to have Living Corporate added as a great addition to the list of podcasts that are there.Zach: Man. Okay, okay. So now let me--let me ask you this, 'cause I thought about this while you were talking about the fact that you met a black woman who kind of helped--not kind of, she helped. She mentored you. She gave you the advice that you needed to help kind of narrow and focus in on what you--on what you wanted to do. What was the emotional impact of seeing a black woman in a position of authority at work?Crystle: Yeah. So I would definitely say that I felt really empowered through her. So throughout my career I hadn't really ever seen very many black women in leadership. Obviously there are lots of women in leadership, but there aren't very many black women or other women of color in leadership. So she really made me feel really empowered, like I could actually do it, and that's why I have this mantra of "representation matters," because you can't be what you can't see. So being able to see myself in her really helped to propel me forward.Zach: "You can't be what you can't see." I love that. That's so true. And, you know, my experience is very similar to yours, Crystle. Like, actually, all of my bosses really, save for, like, one or two, have actually been women, but I haven't had many, if any, women of color who were my--who were my bosses or my leads or my managers in my consulting career or before consulting in industry. I never had that, and yet, you know, when I see--when I see black and brown people in positions of leadership around me, or even if I just see it in the media, I see it represented, I do--I feel more empowered. And I'm a manager now, right? But when I think about if I want to continue climbing the ladder and I want to be, like, a director, or down the road be some type of an executive, seeing people in those positions, it empowers me, right? It makes me feel like there's hope for me, like there's a reason for me to really continue to push and get this, and it makes it seem attainable. It helps me--it encourages me that it's attainable, so that's amazing. What advice would you give to those who say, "I know black women are underrepresented and undersupported, and I want to help them, but I don't really know how or where to start. I don't really know how to, you know, build a relationship or really make sure that they know I'm their friend and I'm here for them." Like, what advice would you give to folks who are in that space?Crystle: Yeah. So definitely I would say that anyone can support black or brown women at work, or women in general at work. So I actually like to call--I like to call this process the "LEO" method. So Listen is for L, E for empathize, and O for offer your support. So when you listen, you actually need to take a step back, take in what it is that the person is telling you about their career aspirations, the opportunities or obstacles that they're facing within their career. Then you need to empathize with them, so you have to realize that your experience isn't the only experience. So don't minimize what this woman has gone through within her career. Just empathize and take it all in. And then third, you want to offer your help. So don't tell her how you can help her, but really just ask the question - "How can I help you to be more successful? How can I leverage my resources?" Or "How can I be an ally for you to assist you with propelling you forward or for you to get through these barriers or obstacles that you're facing?"Zach: That's incredible. And, you know, let me--let me ask this. Yeah, let me ask this. So while it's definitely--there's definitely value in being able to ask, and I think that shares a certain level of humility, right? Because I think sometimes when you--when you don't ask people, like, "How can I support you? How can I help you?" It kind of can turn kind of like maternalistic or paternalistic, where you're treating them like they don't know what they want as if they're kids, but at the same time--at the same time I'm curious. I would challenge that we also need people who will make suggestions on how they can help us, because we don't always know what we don't know, right? Like, we don't know the doors in the rooms that we need to be in, or we don't understand the processes and stuff like that, so we also need people--I mean, you tell me what you think, but I would say that we also need people who are gonna be able to say, "Look, you don't know how to get over here, but I do. This is what I'm suggesting. This is what I think you should do." Like, do you think there's value in that too?Crystle: Yeah, I definitely think that there's value in it, and I think that you should collaborate with that woman that you're trying to assist. So I think it does work both ways, but I think coming out of the gate you should definitely ask the question - "How can I support you?" And then from there collaborate on next steps on how you can get her to the next level.Zach: 100%, absolutely. Okay. Well, this is great. The LEO method. I love this. And you can't see--you can't become what you can't see. Man, you got some gems, Crystle. I see why they got you over there at Pandora. I see you. And you finessed this thing and turned it into a promotion for Pandora, and we're not even sponsored by them. So you finessed me a couple times! This is actually pretty dope, I'm not gonna lie. I'm actually very impressed. So I know we talked about Pandora, but let's talk a little bit more about your group in 2019, and, like, what are you--what are you looking to accomplish this year? What are you excited about? What are the products that you have kind of cooking, and what would you like to--you know, what information would you like for the audience to have that they could kind of look up later after the podcast episode?Crystle: Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I actually recently founded an organization by the name of The Red Lip Collective. So I founded the organization because the thought just kept pulling at my heart, because when I wear red lipstick I feel very confident. I feel fearless, and I feel empowered, and I wanted to share that same feeling with other young women of color. So the Red Lip Collective was born, and it does empower young women of color through professional development, mentoring, and through networking events. So the hope for me within this organization, that officially launches in February, is to connect young women of color who are very early on in their professional careers or just feel kind of stuck to successful mentors who are also women of color who can really give them tips and practical tricks on how to navigate their careers in Corporate America or [as an entrepreneur?].Zach: Now, where can people learn more about you? What's the information for your collective? Like, drop all of your information so we can put it in the show notes.Crystle: Yeah, definitely. So on Instagram and Twitter you can follow my personal page @CrystleSpeaks. That's C-R-Y-S-T-L-E S-P-E-A-K-S. And also on Instagram and Twitter you can follow the Red Lip Collective @TheRedLipCollective.Zach: Okay. Now, look here. We got LEO. We got you can't--I'm serious, I'm so excited about "you cannot become what you can't see." Like, that is fire to me. That might--that's gonna have to be a quote somewhere, but we got Red Lip Collective, we got Pandora. We got all types of amazing news and gems on this particular episode. I'm extremely excited about this. Before we get out of here, any final thoughts or shout-outs?Crystle: Definitely. So I'd like to shout-out everyone who has been a motivator for me in the past, who told me that I could do it even when I felt like I couldn't do it, and then also those who told me to slow down, that I was too ambitious. So those two types of people combined together are exactly what I needed to propel myself forward in my career and also in my personal life. Zach: So y'all, take notes. Notice how Crystle not only shouted out the folks who showed her love, but she also shouted out her haters too. But it was tasteful. It was tactful, right? That was crazy. Yes, so shout-out to Crystle's motivators. Motivation comes from a variety of different places. It's all about your mindset and what you do with the feedback that you're given and how you're gonna convert it into fuel. So that's amazing. Crystle, this has been a wonderful conversation. You've been listening to Living Corporate. Our Twitter is @LivingCorp_Pod. Our Instagram is @LivingCorporate. You can check us out online at living-corporate.com or livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.tv. We're really all the livingcorporates except livingcorporate.com, because Australia has it locked up, and we haven't really been able to get to 'em yet. However, make sure you catch us, you check us out. This has been Zach Nunn. You have been listening to Crystle Johnson. Peace.

On the first installment of Tristan's Tips, our esteemed guest Tristan Layfield answers the question of whether or not cover letters are relevant anymore and provides an effective, actionable method to write a great one. Check back next Tuesday for another tip!Tristan's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanlayfield/Layfield Resume Consulting: https://layfieldresume.com/Layfield Resume social media: IG, Twitter, FacebookTRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you a weekly career tip. Today we're gonna dive into an effective cover letter method that will better help you sell yourself to your future employer. One of the questions I'm asked quite often is "Are cover letters still a thing?" And my answer to that question is always yes. A cover letter can set you apart from other candidates who don't submit one. It also allows you the space to sell yourself, explain your situation, and even sometimes seal the deal. There are many ways to write a cover letter. Let's focus on one I find to be most effective. Number one, address a person. Hiring managers and recruiters hate to see the generic greeting of "To whom it may concern." Do your Googles and try to find out who the hiring manager is and address them directly. If you can't find the name, consider addressing it to the department or committee. Number two, identify a problem. Let's be real here. Companies could care less about what you want out of this or what you're excited for. They want to know if you can solve issues for them, and the only way to do that is to identify an issue that may be plaguing them specifically or the general industry. So identify the problem that you know that you have experience in or experience solving. Number three, exploit that problem. Now that you've identified the problem, remind them of how irritating their problem is and how great a solution would be. Number four, offer a solution, and if you haven't figured it out by now, the solution is you - your experience and your expertise. Go beyond what you've written in your resume and explain to them why you are the best candidate, not only for the job but to help them solve their problem. And number five, tie it together strong. Your conclusion is a great spot to reiterate your interest and confidence, then close with a call of action such as "I look forward to the opportunity to discuss how we can leverage my abilities as an asset to your organization." A well-written, strategic cover letter can't ever hurt, but just make sure you aren't sending out a generic one for every job you apply to. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn. Thanks for joining me. I'll be talking to you again soon.

We have the honor of speaking with author, social worker, and community activist Feminista Jones about the importance of supporting black women at the workplace and the ways in which people can help lift up and advocate for them. We also talk about her new book, Reclaiming Our Space, and announce a giveaway of some free copies!Connect with Feminista on IG and Twitter!Her new book, Reclaiming Our Space: AmazonPatricia Hill Collins’ catalog: AmazonTRANSCRIPTAde: "An extensive survey of hundreds of books, articles, and white papers concludes that women leave the tech industry because they're, quote, treated unfairly, underpaid, less likely to be fast-tracked than their male colleagues, and unable to advance. A study by the Center for Talent Innovation found that 20% of women in tech feel stalled in their careers and 32% are likely to quit within one year. 48% of black women in tech feel stalled." This excerpt from Rachel Thomas called The Real Reason Women Quit Tech (and How to Address It) speaks to the ever-present challenges women, especially those of color, face at work. The common narrative is that diversity and inclusion drive innovation. If so, why are black women so often on the short end of the stick, and what does it look like to effectively support them? My name is Ade, and this is Living Corporate.Zach: So today we're talking about supporting black women at work.Ade: Yeah. So why do you think we're focusing specifically on black women and not talking about women as a whole?Zach: Well, one I think because the reality of intersectionality is real, right? The fact that we exist in multiple spectrums, not just one or the other. I think that when you talk about--when we have conversations about gender, they often can be overly binary in a way that really erases the very real experiences and perspectives of millions of people, particularly when it comes to black women. You know, often times we ignore the fact that, historically, the feminist movements of the early 1900s ignored or aimed to kind of like neutralize and minimize black women's voices. We ignored the fact that black women have endured a history of abuse and negligence by our country. I think that we really often enough just don't talk about and really seek to empower black voices and experiences, particularly black voices and experiences who are women. So that's why I think we're talking about--we're zooming in on black women today.Ade: So you can't see me, but I nodded so hard throughout all of that. I want you to know that if I have whiplash in the morning, I'm billing you directly.Zach: Don't bill me. Don't bill me please.Ade: No, thank you for sharing that. To kind of expound and share some of my own personal experiences, I mean, I've been in situations where I had my bonus docked at work, and I'm asking for concrete reasons as to why I don't have all my money, because I earned this bonus, and the manager is making excuses like, "Oh, well, your computer failed, therefore you didn't get this deliverable in on time," and I'm like, "Okay, so you acknowledge that this was something that this was not within my control and I'm still being punished for it anyway?" And I had no allies. Like, I had plenty of people who were nice to me, plenty of people within that space who would listen to me and bring me coffee and acknowledge that I would be, you know, one of the few people who would show up to work on Sundays to get work done, which I'm never doing again. But nobody felt the need to go to bat for me the same way that they did for other people, and I think in retrospect there were a lot of people who were like, "Oh, she's got this. Oh, she's strong enough to deal with this. Oh, she'll speak up for herself." I mean, and I did, but nobody was listening to me, right? And that's just one of several occasions in which I felt alone. I felt like I was being punished for things that were outside of my control, and even when I spoke up for myself people would treat me as though as I was overreacting or disturbing the peace by just asking to be treated fairly, right? And I found that ultimately I have had to be my own best advocate, and I think in ways that others don't even have to think about, right? Thinking about ways in which I am communicating. For example, I have a pretty sarcastic sense of humor.Zach: Yep.Ade: Thank you for backing me up. But I found that there are situations in which I have consciously dialed back, because I recognized that there were people who would say that I am being mean or that if I am not relating to the topic at hand--for example, people are just kind of talking through experiences that I've never experienced. I'm not gonna get up every day and wash my hair. That's not how my hair functions. And so if I'm quiet in that conversation, people will report that I'm being standoffish. And so there are all of these things and all of these micro-aggressions that ultimately lead to me feeling isolated and unsupported in various workplace scenarios and situations. And so ultimately I want a world in which I don't have to feel different. Like, I want to feel as though I can bring my whole self to work, my whole self, whether my twist-out is bomb or not, whether I feel like I need to go on every single coffee run with every single one of my coworkers just so that I feel like I belong. But that's a conversation we can have a little bit later. Can you think of any situations that you've observed in which you felt that the black woman or black women in your spaces weren't being taken seriously or were being treated differently?Zach: So for sure, right? Interestingly enough though in my career, I have not--I haven't really worked with a lot of black women who were not actually much more senior than I was, right? So, you know, my first experience when I think about it was I was in industry. I was in the oil and gas industry, and she's now a mentor of mine. She's easily one of the most learned, most educated people that I know period. Like, she has an MBA, a Ph.D. She teaches. She's a college professor. And it was interesting watching her navigate these spaces, like, despite her education, people still, like, kind of, like, looking past her or, like, looking through the things that she would say and kind of just cutting her off and making a lot of very presumptive statements.Ade: Ooh. Cutting her off? Good lord.Zach: Cutting her off. Cutting her off, yeah, and watching her handle those situations with a lot of poise and grace and a still certain level of, like, firm confidence. Like, "Okay, nope. I got it." And she's--you know, she's about, like, my mom's age, so certainly she's had a litany of experiences that I would imagine have, you know, helped her kind of deal with what it means just to be who she is in the spaces that she exists. But yeah, I think--I think that that's been, like, the most common experience that I've seen, like, black women in the workplace who would be directors, senior managers--again, they were always senior to me--and they would be--they'd just be dismissed. Like, their opinion would be kind of, like, taken with a pound of salt, slight eye rolls and things of that nature, or kind of to your point, even I've seen situations--and this has been my experience as well, but we're not talking about Zach's experiences, we're talking about black women's experiences--where people will--you know, they'll smile and they'll nod, and then they'll go off and they'll do exactly what they want to do anyway.Ade: Oh. Oh, my God. This is--this is just bringing back so many different flashbacks.Zach: [laughs] No, but it's real though. I've seen that, like, where it's like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no, for sure," or like I said, you know, they'll say things--they'll be very nice, but then, like, they don't really support you, and I think that kind of, like, speaks to a larger phenomena of people who think that you being nice is in some way you being an advocate, right? Like, no. Like, you're just being nice. Like, there's a difference, and I think to your earlier point about, you know, people saying you're overreacting, I think people--it's so funny. Like, when it comes to--in my experience when it comes to people of color, particularly women of color, folks are really able to see the implications of their decisions with folks' careers when it's their career.Ade: Mm-hmm, say that.Zach: But they don't understand--like, they don't understand the reality of your decision when it comes to my money, right? So, like, when you sit back and you say, "Oh, okay. Well, yeah, you know, your computer didn't work, and so we cut your bonus." You understand, like, you're taking away my money? You're taking away my livelihood. We live in a capitalistic society. Like, I need bread to live.Ade: Right.Zach: So when you sit back and you make decisions that are gonna impede my promotion, they're gonna impede my ratings, they're gonna impede my bonus, like, you're actively taking money out of my pocket. So if you're gonna do something like that where you're gonna take money out of my pocket, you need to have a quantitative, valid, ethical and legal reason--Ade: Have an ironclad reason.Zach: An ironclad reason to do so, and it's just crazy that people don't grasp, like, you know, you're talking about my bread. We're gonna have a problem. But guess what though? I bet if somebody came at you like that, you'd be the first one to run to a lawyer, to run to whoever you're gonna run to who's gonna listen to you.Ade: You'd be on the phone with [inaudible].Zach: On the phone [inaudible] lickety-splickety. So, like, why are we playing?Ade: [laughs] Lickety-splickety.Zach: Lickety-splickety.Ade: But yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself. I spoke only of my own experiences, but there's, like, a litany of experiences of the women in my circle and the women who are well above me who are just dealing with things that I don't think they would be dealing with if they were white men, right? Just being excluded or people being condescending to you or people either treating you like you're the third rail and they can't speak to you like you're a regular human being, or when they do speak to you it's with this air of condescension like they know better than you what to do when you're the subject matter expert, and it's just--I can't list literally every single one of things, but I do know this. I know that the tide is going to have to turn, not just because that it is so, but because people who have been studying and working and putting in time and effort to elucidate just what it means to be a black woman in America have extended themselves, right? And so I know that the work is being done. I know that I am just a small piece of a much larger universe of women who are like, "Yeah, this is cute and all, but we're not having it. Thank you." And of those, I think you had the opportunity to speak to one very, very amazing writer. You want to introduce her?Zach: Yeah, so absolutely. So I got the opportunity, or rather Living Corporate had the opportunity, to speak with Feminista Jones. For those who may not know her, she's an activist, she's a black feminist. She's a wonderful person, great writer, and she actually has written a book called Reclaiming Our Space, and we'll get into that in the interview. The next voice you're gonna hear is in the interview that we had with Feminista Jones, and we'll talk to y'all soon.Ade and Zach: Peace.Zach: And we're back. And as we said before the break, we have Feminista Jones on the show. Feminista, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Feminista: I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?Zach: I'm doing great. Now, let me--let me ask you this. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a bit about yourself?Feminista: Sure. For those who don't know me, I am a writer. I am a social worker. I am an activist. I am a speaker, I am a mother, and I am a really amazing friend.Zach: Let's go, yes.Feminista: I do a lot around really advocating for girls and women, advocating for racial justice. I do a lot of anti-poverty work. That's, like, my main primary focus is anti-poverty work. And I'm located in Philadelphia. I'm a native New Yorker, but I moved to Philadelphia a couple years ago because I really wanted to do work to fight poverty, and this city has such a high poverty rate that I wanted to come here and see what work I could help, you know, get done while I'm out here.Zach: So today we're talking about supporting black women in the workplace.Feminista: Mm-hmm. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] I am familiar with your content and your work through social media. We're excited to have you here because of your thought leadership in this arena. So what do you think are some practical ways black women can be better advocated for and supported in their 9-to-5 jobs?Feminista: This is a really great question. I'm someone who is in a senior management position in the social work field, in the community activism fields, and a lot of people have misconceptions about, you know, community work and social work and think that it's just about low-paying work all the time. And some of it is, but there is a lot of opportunities to move up, and when you're in a senior-level position you've got to use multiple skill sets. And I think, just for black women, you know, people make a lot of assumptions that we can do so much all the time, and they rely on us to do that. So I think a lot of times people take for granted the contributions that we make or they take advantage of them, and they may expect that, you know, black women will just handle it, you know? Whatever the fires that need to be put out, black women come with an extinguisher. You know, we're the problem solvers, and a lot of times, you know, we have no choice. We have to because we're looked at, you know, one as being black, two as being women. We're looked at it being doubly, you know, incompetent, and I feel like we've worked so hard to prove otherwise. And you're working alongside men or alongside white people or reporting to men or reporting to white people. You have to, like, be mindful of how you're gonna be perceived, and I think one of the biggest challenges facing black women in the workplace is this idea that people make assumptions about our attitude and our personality and just based on our affect, or, you know, they say we have attitudes or we have issues with communication. And that's one of the things that I struggle with, because I feel like men are celebrated for being, you know, direct and blunt and forward and aggressive. I feel like white people are celebrated for, like, not taking no for an answer and, you know, really kind of just putting it out there and taking risks, but it's like when black women do it, you know, people kind of look at us like, you know, we just tried to suggest something really radical. They kind of look at us like, "How dare you?" almost, and it sucks because we are smart and we are capable, we are talented, and sometimes it's just we're not appreciated simply because we're black women.Zach: That's just--that's so true, right? So, like, as a black man in the workplace--so I'm a consultant, and I don't often really work with black women on projects. I don't really work with other black people often, but when I do I notice that there's this--there's this pattern where if a black woman speaks up--I've noticed where if they speak up and they're being assertive, it is taken completely different than when a white woman speaks up as being assertive and certainly when a man, especially a white man, speaks up and is being assertive. Now, speaking for myself as a black man, there's also, like, a weird balance, right, because we--like, black men do participate in patriarchy of course, and we also--we also sit higher on the privilege pyramid than black women, and at the same time there's a--there's a certain level of balance in terms of not being too assertive but but not being assertive enough at the same time. It's like you truly can't win for losing, so I definitely--I relate to that, and I have--and I've seen it more than a few times with black women, especially if they're, you know, a bit more seasoned in their careers. Let's say if they're, like, over 35 and they really know what they're talking about, they're often seen as a--they're often seen as a threat as opposed--Feminista: Absolutely, absolutely. And I just wanted to touch really quickly what you were saying about, you know, black men in the workplace. Like, I've had situations where I've been, you know, on the same level as a black man, and, like, he's made mistakes, and I'm like, "I'm not trying to have this brother go down," you know what I mean? Because he messed up, or I'm not gonna make him look bad in front of these white people that hired--you know, that are over all of us, but at the same time I'm looking like, "Bruh," like, "I need you to get it together."Zach: And support me.Feminista: "You can't rely on me to fix all your things, you know?" Like, you know that I have a certain skill set. You know that I'm not gonna let you fail 'cause you're my brother, but at the same time don't take that for granted.Zach: That's so true.Feminista: And then when you do have the space to advocate for me as, like, a woman, I need you to do that, and I think, you know, one of my colleagues, I had a great conversation with him, and he said, you know, "I can get the race stuff with the snap of a finger," he said, "but every time you point out something about gender," he said, "I think about it, like, what if this was being said about a white person?" And he's like, "And I feel so stupid that I don't get it," you know? And so it's--like, there's work to be done, and he's acknowledging that, like, some of his gender stuff is still real, and it's almost like I have to compare it to race to help him to see it more, and he hates it. Like, he feels so bad, and he, like, resents it, but, you know, definitely he's getting better, and I respect him for at least doing the work. But there are, like, those boys' club kind of environments that while I know a lot of brothers say that, you know, they have their own experiences, they're still invited into those clubs before we are.Zach: That's true. Absolutely, absolutely. So I've been married for about 5 years, 5 1/2 years, and being married has really helped open my eyes to male privilege. And again, like, it's a--I think black men, like, we can get really sensitive about kind of broaching that topic 'cause it's like, "Well, there's still racism." It's like, "No." Absolutely, like, white supremacy still exists, and it subjugates all non-white people. At the same time, there's still a nuance, an element of privilege that we participate in because we are men, and it's important to realize that. Also to your point around women helping--you said you've helped your colleagues in the past 'cause they're a brother, and shout-out to the countless black women in my career who have pulled me aside and helped me and taken the time to just--felt the need to just educate me or mentor me. Really that's really the inspiration behind Living Corporate, because I didn't have a lot of those people in my family coming up giving me, you know, professional wisdom and insights, but it would often be black women pulling me aside and being like, "Hey, look now. [I know that you did this?]."Feminista: [laughs] Yeah, I hear that a lot. You know, if my colleague listens to this he'll laugh, because just the other day we were at the--we were at a conference, and we went to the bar, and I sat him down and we were drinking, and I turned to him and I said, "Look, I'ma need to get your ass together," you know what I mean? Like, I really--he said, you know--and he got quiet. He's like, "I know it's coming from love. I know it's coming from a good place," but it's like--it is, because it's like, "Brother, I don't want to see you fail, but, you know, some of the things you're doing is like--I need you to do better," and I said, "I'm gonna help you because I have the resources and I have, you know, the ability to do that, because I want to see you succeed," and I think sometimes, you know, I think within our spaces, particularly as black women, it's like we are so few when we're in, you know, these upper spaces, it's like we look to each other to build community, and it's like that's all we got, you know? That's really all we got, and so it's hard when there's tension there, 'cause it's like, "We shouldn't have tension between us." We can disagree on things, but honestly we all we got.Zach: We've got to work together.Feminista: That's the approach I'd take, yeah.Zach: Absolutely, and you know--I don't want to get on too much of a tangent, but your other point around there is, like, this desire and, like--'cause I cape for black women every day. Like, I have to. My mom is black. My wife is black. Like, I have black sisters. I love--I love black women, right? And what I realized is a lot of times I do believe that there has--there is a pattern of black men, like, using up black women, like as means of support and encouragement and all these different things and really taking them for granted. And I've seen it--I have seen it in the professional workplace. Of course I've seen it in the workplace. We see it in relationships. We see it--we see it in a variety of spaces, and I do believe to your other--to your point around black men need to play a more assertive part for advocating for, speaking up, and supporting black women as well. Okay, so let me ask you this. I do feel as if language is becoming more inclusive but at the same time not as explicit when it comes to centering blackness, specifically black women. So as an example, we hear things like "person of color" or "women of color," but often in my opinion our race is the uniqueness of black identity and black feminine identity. So my question is one, am I tripping, and if two--if not, what are ways to affirm and assert intersectional identity, do you think?Feminista: Mm-hmm. Well, you're not tripping, and I think, you know, anti-blackness is, you know, a quite valuable currency, even among black people. We have all internalized the idea that black is bad, and it's going to take generations, centuries of work, to collectively divest of that idea that blackness is tarnishing, blackness is a blemish. And so there are people who will say women of color, people of color, rather than just saying black, because people have been afraid to say black. And, you know, of course for some people, you know, black means a black American, but for me, you know, when I say black I mean, you know, inclusive of everyone in the diaspora, whether you are from the continent, whether you're from South America, North America, Asia, wherever, Europe. For me that's just a unifier. For others it means different things, you know? So a lot of times people shy away from that, and then when they say people of color or they say women of color, in many ways it does dilute the focus, and what happens is this. So much of what happens to women, like, say, in a negative way, happens to black women, and so people want to use our statistics to make their points. And so they'll say "women of color," right, but of those 10 women of color, like, 7 of 'em are black, and so they can say, you know, "70% of women of color experience this," and it's like, "Yes, seven black women experience that." [laughs] We see that in the feminist movement. We see that in the queer movement. We see that wherever black people exist. Folks want to use our statistics to push their agenda, and I have a problem with that. I have a very serious problem with that, and I agree with you. Like, we need to name blackness for what it is, or if you want to say African-American or Afro-Latino, whatever you want to say. They need to name it for what it is, because it's real. Like, if you look at some place like Brazil, it's--like, you can't say there's 55 million, you know, women of color in Brazil. No, there's 55 million black women in Brazil, you know? And that's more black--there's more black women there than there are black people in the United States. So no, we have to name these things, and it's powerful. It's powerful when you name blackness for what it is, for its achievement and success but also for its struggle, because it puts the focus and the spotlight on us. So, like, when you're talking about black women and black feminine identity, particularly, like, in the workspace and beyond, we have to focus specifically on that, because an Asian woman is not facing the same hair issues. She may have similar name issues on her resume, right? But she's not--she's not facing the hair issues, right? An Indian woman may be seen as, you know, she's super smart with tech, because that's an assumption that is made, you know? It's very different for us, you know? Either a biracial woman, you know, may not have the same issues with color if her skin tone is lighter. You know, there's a--there's a lot of things that are going on there that we need to name explicitly.Zach: And see, I think--and my anxiety about even bringing that question up is that people will hear that and say, "Oh, okay. Well, now you're excluding other people," when not at all. Really what we're trying to do is push that we're explicit with identity language across the board, right? So you just gave three examples, right, of why it's important to be specific when it comes to speaking to identity and intersectionality. I believe that we see it at a larger point, and we talked about this in season one, around the pay gap, and we talked about--we talked about that from the perspective of, you know, when you conflate gender across the board and you say, "Well, women believe this, and men are like--" Well, no. Like, that's--I mean, just being a very, like, initial cut, black men and white men do not have the same experiences. Black women and white women do not have the same experiences. Asian women and white women don't have the same experiences. So it's really empowering across if we can have the courage to just speak explicitly to who we're talking about.Feminista: Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, the experiences are different. People will say, "Oh, women make 77 cents on the dollar," but that's not true for a black woman. A black woman is more like 56 cents, 54 cents or something like that.Zach: It is, yeah.Feminista: Like, it's different. Again, but that's, like, padding the numbers, and things like that to bring down the average, 'cause I believe, like--I think I read something like Asian women are on par with white men, and white women are, like, 80% or something like that. Like, they're--Zach: So it's crazy. Like, the numbers absolutely agree [inaudible]. Like, you know, I've seen numbers that are, you know--so, like, white men are 100%, and then white women might be at, like, 77 cents. Black women are at 64 cents, and black men are at, like, 67 cents or 68 cents. But, like, we never talk about--we never talk--not we never talk about, that's not fair, because there's plenty of people driving those discussions, but when you talk about, like, the major narrative talking points in the media, we don't ever talk about the fact that, like, white women make more than black men. Like, that's--I've never heard that, right?Feminista: Oh, I've heard that discussion quite a bit. I mean, it just--we may just be in different circles.Zach: I defer.Feminista: You know, I've heard quite a bit, and it is important, you know, to discuss, because, I mean, it's the truth, right? So it's like--you know, but black women just kind of sit back and be like, "Y'all have at it," because you're either gonna bicker over the race thing or you're gonna bicker over the gender thing.Zach: It's never both, right?Feminista: And we're both. We're the ones that are saying it's both, you know? [laughs] And nobody wants to listen to us on either side, so you all hash it out.Zach: You're absolutely right. No, you're absolutely right, and so--and no, I defer. I would trust that if you've heard it then it's--then those conversations are happening in the right places. So I believe that leads us well into your book, Reclaiming Our Space. Can you talk a bit about the book and how you arrived at that title?Feminista: The title was really interesting. It took us a while to get there. I didn't know what I wanted to call it. What I did know was, you know, shout-out to my editor, Rakia Clark at Beacon Press. She's amazing. She's fantastic. She helped me along the way. On--okay, so if we talk about the book, I--she came to me, right? I guess she was among a bunch of folks who thought I had already written something like this, because my first two books were self-published and did really well, and so I was never--like, I wasn't looking for a publishing agent or a publisher or anything like that. I wasn't looking for a literary agent. I was like, "I can just do it myself," you know? And cut out the middleperson, but when she came to me and approached me it was like, you know, "Have you written anything like this?" And I was like, "No." She was like, "Well, do you want to?" Like, "We're interested in this," and I was like, "What? Sure, okay," and the idea was really to write about not just modern black feminism but specifically kind of speak to my experiences and those of my peers of existing as black feminists in these digital spaces. So ultimately the book is about how black feminists and black women, even those that don't openly identify as feminists, have been able to build community by using digital platforms and how social media has been a--you know, basically a change agent in how we do activism or how we connect across the world and how it's changed our ability to get our messaging out and to change the face of feminism, and we've been able to educate people and influence popular culture and shape laws and everything, you know? I talk about our political influence. I talk about our, you know, influence on television and, you know, this whole live tweeting thing came from us. And, you know, we're talking about black women voting. We're talking about critiquing white feminism. We're talking about--even things down to, like, quote tweeting and threading tweets and things like that. Like, all these things really became popular because of us. So I do a deep dive into that, but I start off with basics of, you know, what is black feminism? I wanted to write a primer for black feminism that was accessible to people of today. We know that people have shorter attention spans. They really want the hot takes. They want the summaries and things like that. They're not going to sit down with a thick Patricia Hill Collins book, although they should. They're not going back and reading, you know, everything from bell hooks, everything from Toni Morrison. They may not even know who Florence Kennedy is, right? But they need to, and so I was like, "Well, how do I tell our story? 'Cause I need to show how we got here," and so I do give a very straightforward quick primer on black feminism, and I go back, like, 125 years or so, and then I bring us to the present, and I'm like, "Well, here are your modern black feminists of today," and so I'm talking about, like, my sister Jamilah Lemieux. I'm talking about Imani Gandy. I'm talking about Zerlina Maxwell. I'm talking about, you know, these really--CaShawn Thompson, who created Black Girl Magic. You know, I'm talking about these women who, right now, in present day, are making history. I'm talking about Trudy, you know? And just a bunch of others. They're currently making history. Not just black history, not just women's history, but they are making history in the ways in which they are transforming these social media platforms. We are creating campaigns. We are, you know, changing literally the world and culture, and I'm writing all about it, 'cause I felt that it needed to be documented. We needed to have something that encapsulated this entire moment right now.Zach: So for our audience, I think many have heard of the term feminism, but the modifier black is still new for a lot of people. So would you mind explaining the difference between what we often think of as feminism and black feminism?Feminista: That's a great question. I get it a lot, and I think the difference is just we are directing people to our identity as black women, which we believe is important in every discussion about our womanhood, and I think, as I said earlier about kind of looking at the both sides of things, the gender and the race, there's a really great collection of works that really references this idea that, you know, all of the men are black and all of the women are white. When we think about, within our black community, you know, blackness really is depicted through a black man, and those are our leaders, and those are the people we care more about when they're killed by police and all these other things, but when it's for a woman, when we think "woman" it's white women, right? But some of us are--we exist in the middle, and to say that we are feminists is--you know, it's a collective idea. All people, women--all women of all races can be feminists, but when we say that we are black feminists, we are saying yes, we believe in women's rights, yes, we support gender, you know, equality, and yes, we support equity, but don't forget that we're black and that we have different issues on top of all of these other issues that women deal with, right? So we have all the feminist issues AND those that come with being not just black but black women within the black community.Zach: You know, it's interesting that you say that because, you know, I have a colleague who is a very senior leader, and she's a white woman, and she said, "Yeah, Zach. I mean, I'm a woman, but I'm white, right? Like, I don't have it that bad," and so--and she kind of chuckled about it, and she was like, "But let's be honest, I don't." And I said, "Okay." You know, with that being said--Feminista: Well, she's right.Zach: She is right. I said, "Yep." [laughs] Yeah, and I laughed. I was--you know, kind of as an aside, I laughed because I was so shocked because she's so senior and she was being--she was speaking so frankly that I said--I laughed and I said, "Well, you know, you're right. You're right," and so it leads me to this question. What are some practical ways you believe white women can support black women generally and at work? And what have you seen be helpful in your journey?Feminista: If I say get out the way, is that too harsh? [laughs] Nah.Zach: It's your energy.Feminista: You know, I mean, ultimately--the bottom line is this. There is no single person I believe that is willing to totally divest of whatever privilege they have if it means staying alive and it means that their children are fed, and I don't care who you are. You will cling to some privilege, whatever privilege you have, to make sure that you can stay alive and that your children are fed. With that said, there are white women who I have really come to know and love and respect, who value my opinions, my thoughts, my work, and amplify it without adding qualifiers to it. They'll share my work. They'll share information about my articles and my books, and they'll direct people to events that I'm having or things like that. They'll use their platforms to really kind of boost, you know, the work that I and other people are doing, which is super important. In the quiet spaces that I don't even have access to they'll stand up for me and folks like me. They'll call out people that are close to them, you know? Even at the risk of losing those connections. Those are women that I find to be truly amazing when you're talking about in the corporate space. I'm coming from, you know, the social work/non-profit field, and we know that that field is ripe with white saviors. Many liberal white women, and men, you know, kind of get into this work 'cause they want to "do good" and they want to "help the needy," and sometimes that can really be actually racist, 'cause the assumptions they make about, you know, people in need or poor people or black people or things like that under the guise of wanting to help can be rather violent. So I've had my share of run-ins with white women in that space, 'cause I'm like, "You'll never tell me that you know what's better for a black child than I do." [laughs] I don't care who you are. We have the same education and experience. But what you can do in that space is really just listen, and I think that, you know, social media definitely has made it a lot easier to listen and to access the voices and experiences of marginalized folks, whereas a lot of white women never really had exposure, you know, in such even and equal platforms. I can tweet just as much as you can, so we have an even playing field right there, and you can listen and you can read and you can learn from me as I'm telling you my experience that I just had today. You don't have to pick up a book later on in the year of anecdotes. You can see right now that I am telling you that 20 minutes ago my white boss did this, you know? And I think that that's really helped white women come to understand more about the daily experiences of women of color and black women specifically. So a lot of women are actually--you know, especially millennials. The younger folks are really kind of just, like, "Eff it. I'm just gonna say what I need to say."Zach: Yeah, we with the smoke. Yeah. [laughs]Feminista: "I'm gonna stand up for this--I'm gonna stand up for this black woman right here, 'cause this ain't right," you know? And I love the energy. I mean, you know, for an older person like myself, I really love the energy that I'm seeing. So maybe we'll see some major changes coming.Zach: Maybe so. That's my prayer for sure. Before we get out of here, let me ask you this. What was the process like for you writing this book? I know you talked about that you were self-published before. This was a different journey. You know, did you learn anything about yourself from this journey?Feminista: Oh, my gosh. Yes. This is totally different. My first book I wrote over the course of 2 years. The second one I actually pulled some pieces that I had written before and wrote some new ones, but it only took me a few months. This one I was on a deadline. I had, like, "You need this by this time and this by this time, and you need to get this in, and you need to review this, and we need this back by this day," and I was like, "What is happening?" I've been the kind of person who, if you give me a deadline it starts to feel like work, and sometimes when it starts to feel like work it doesn't come as--you know, it doesn't flow as well. So I struggled a little bit with that. I had 6 months to write it, and the first 2 months I just was like, "What?" I was like, "What is going on?" I had just had, like, a really bad breakup. I was depressed. I was like, "I don't want to do anything with anyone ever, and I don't want to talk anyone, and I don't want to do--" I couldn't write a word, and then my editor gently nudged me and reminded me of that first check that I got, and I was like, "I should probably write this book." The other thing, you know, I'm also, you know, a mental health consumer and advocate, and I realized that part of my writing struggle was the medication that I was--that I had been taking. It evens my mood so much that I'm--like, I can't--I'm not creative. I don't think of things. I couldn't--I literally couldn't write, so for about a month I stopped taking my medication, and I'll tell people, I wrote about 80% of the book in a month, that month, and it was, like, kind of--it was such a negotiation for me because I knew that without the medication I would be a bit manic, I would be a bit frenzied, you know? I would have these bouts with, you know, depression or whatever, but I knew I could get it done. And so there were days where, you know, I would write until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and just write, like, brilliant stuff, like, that I don't half-remember now, so. But I knew it was a risk, you know, and I am being very transparent about it because, you know, I just think it's important to do that, but it was a risk, but I was able to get it done. And so what I learned--it helped me really learn how much of my, you know, mental health experiences have been tied into my ability to write, and it's been a fascinating, fascinating discovery. So after the book was done, you know, I went back on my medication, and I've been in therapy and what have you, but as I was doing rewrites and things like that and reviewing it, I was reading it, like, for the first time. I was just like, "I wrote this?" I just couldn't remember writing so much of it, and then I was like, "I actually wrote this," and I was like, "This is pretty damn good." [laughs] But that's--you know, so that is a very, very unique writing process, and it's funny 'cause this is the first time I'm talking about it. A very unique writing process that I won't recommend to anybody else ever, but you know what? The easiest thing I'm gonna have to say is this - I enjoy writing about my friends and myself, 'cause that's really what I was doing, and if you can imagine--let's imagine we go back to the Harlem Renaissance, right? And we look at all those people that we group together as, like, these collectives from the Harlem Renaissance. Imagine if one of them had been documenting what they were doing at the time. It's kind of like the crisis, like, I mean, you know, these other papers and stuff that they had, like, imagine if somebody actually wrote a book in real-time kind of documenting, you know, what was happening and that we were able to read it in their words. That's what I wanted to do, and so I get to write about all these women that I love and respect and love reading their writing, love having drinks with them, love--you know, and I'm privileged. I'm privileged, and it was an honor for me to be able to document their contribution to black feminist work.Zach: That's amazing, and--I'm certainly taken aback, and I'm excited and honored with the fact that you're able to--you're transparent enough to share your journey in putting this work together. The book is called Reclaiming Our Space. Before we let you go, do you have any parting thoughts?Feminista: I'm just really excited that the book is coming out and that people can read it, and I wrote it to make it accessible to teenaged girls all the way up to your mee-maw, your big momma. I really hope that it gets into the hands of people that need it, and then maybe it could start to shift this discourse a bit and get black women a little bit more respect for what we're doing. [laughs]Zach: Amen.Feminista: Yeah, that's it. So thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. This was great.Zach: No, this is great. So Feminista, something you should know is on our website we have something called Favorite Things, and that's where we highlight books and even sometimes food and just other items, things that we really care for, and your book, Reclaiming Our Space, will be #1 on our Favorite Things list. So we're gonna make sure that we push and encourage people to check it out, to buy it and to read it. So thank you so much, and we definitely consider you a friend of the show. We hope we can have you back.Feminista: Oh, I would love to come back. Thank you.Zach: All right, now. Peace.Ade: And we're back. Thank you so much, Zach. That was amazing. Enjoyed that conversation. I think it helped me really think through what it means to lift up the black women in your circle, not just your personal circle, 'cause it's really easy to uplift your friends, but also thinking through how you're uplifting the black women at work, in your corporate spaces, wherever you might hold sway or have some sort of influence that you might be able to use better help others. What part of the conversation did you really enjoy?Zach: So we had a conversation there where we talked about the fact that really, for me, black women have always been, like, the core of my support in my career, right? So there was always some type of either kind of like motherly or kind of big aunt or big sister type figure around me. Like, they would chastise me, but it would always be out of love, right? It would always be in the spirit of "I want you to do better" or "I know you can do better so I'm holding you accountable," and it was crazy because these women who would--again, who would help me, they were not getting the support that they needed, and yet they still found it in themselves to give me the support that they knew I needed, and, you know, I think there's gonna have to be a day eventually--I mean, the day is now frankly, right--that black women are poured into, right? They can't continue just to be the exporter of support and wisdom and empathy and effort, right? Like, they're going--like, they need to be imported into. Like, they need to be given support. They need to be empathized with. They need to be heard. They need to be--and their words should be--their words should be adhered to, right? Like, they need--the things that they are giving they need to also receive.Ade: Aye, reciprocity.Zach: Reciprocity, thank you. No, straight up. That's the word really, reciprocity. Like, they need that, because I think so many times--like, it's so interesting. Also I've seen women at work, black women at work, who will eventually just get kind of fed up with, like, the BS and kind of call people on it. Like, in a professional way, but it may be, like, a more assertive way, and then the narrative is "Oh, she has an attitude problem," or she doesn't know how to handle things. Like, no, she doesn't have an attitude problem. She's tired of y'all treating her like this. She's tired of--she's tired of being the work mule for everybody, from a work perspective, from an emotional perspective. She's tired of it. Like, that's what it is.Ade: And I just want to say how important that is, because very often you'll hear about the trip of the angry black woman. I mean, it follows us everywhere, especially to Corporate America, and everybody wants to talk about the angry black woman, but nobody ever wants to talk about what y'all did to make her angry.Zach: That's so true, wow.Ade: Okay, so one, anger is a valid emotion.Zach: Right? [laughs]Ade: I just--I don't feel like running away from the trope. To be frank, so much occurs that we get to be upset about. Like, everybody gets to be upset about whatever it is upsets them, because that's their right, so I don't understand why it is up to black women--I mean, no, I do understand. I'm just saying that I'm done with that.Zach: Facts. [laughs]Ade: Women very often will be graded on likability, and black women will be graded on likability and your ability to swallow a whole bunch of nonsense and just grin and bear it, right? But if you decide that you are A. not going to grin and bear it and 2. not only are you not going to grin and bear it, you're going to alert the folks who feel as though it's your duty to grin and bear it that you see through the BS and you will not be having any portion of it. Suddenly you're the bad guy, and so ultimately I think it's important that we take away from this - if you feel as though the black women in Corporate America or in your spaces or at your jobs are angry, perhaps they have a right to be, right? There is this phenomenon I've noticed. I mean, I haven't conducted a federally-funded study of this, so there's that. Most of this is from my own personal experiences.Zach: Right, right.Ade: But I've noticed that, you know, these companies will bring in somebody who meets their diversity quota. So in this situation we're talking about bringing a black woman in to your notoriously anti-black misogynistic spaces, and you just leave her to sink or swim, right? And so this woman is cataloging all the ways in which you could be doing better as an organization and saying, "Hey, I have noticed that this is trash, and these are the ways in which you could do better," and instead of, you know, actually paying attention and doing better like the [inaudible] claim that you are, you ignore her. You shut her down. You make her feel as though she is imagining things or pulling things out of thin air or that she is in fact the problem, and then when she finally gets fed up and goes, "You know what? Y'all got it. I'm good," suddenly she is the insane one in the scenario, or suddenly she's the one that's making a big deal out of nothing, or she's playing the victim, and this mass gaslighting of black women in Corporate America 1. is trash, 2. honestly, I feel as though we can't be the only ones who see it, right?Zach: No. We're definitely--no, definitely not. Definitely not.Ade: And even further, here are some concrete ways in which I believe everyone could reach a hand out to the women in your circle. One, it is not enough for you to simply have a diversity and inclusion program. I mean, that's cool and all, but a lot of your diversity and inclusion programs are--flimsy is the word I want to use. It's the one G-rated word that I have off the top of my head to describe your diversity and inclusion programs. They're flimsy, and they do not actually take into account the needs and experiences of the populations that you want to actually address. So for one, every person that you hire, period, should feel like they're able to bring their whole selves to work. And I don't say--I'm not saying that they should show up to work in an unprofessional manner or that they should show up to work and bring drama or chaos to work. That's clearly not what I'm saying, and I'm hoping that you people hear me when I say that. What I am saying is that I should not feel as though I have to decipher what it is that you want from me as an employee because you are uncomfortable just speaking to me like I am a regular human being. I should not feel as though I don't know what the company culture is, because it is your responsibility as the company who creates the culture to communicate that clearly and honestly and fairly. Give me a fair shot to show that not only do I belong here, I can thrive here. And more importantly, do not put the onus on your individual employees to change the entire company structure. It is unfair. It is irrational to say that, "Well, they didn't say that they wanted an employee resource group," or "They didn't say that they needed sponsorship programs that would, you know, put the black women on partnership track," or "They didn't say that they needed XYZ in order to be more successful." It is--it is your responsibility as the managers, as the directors, as the partners, to reach out, because you are the ones with power in your hands to do something about the situation and the environment that your employees are in. And if you are a black woman who finds herself at work and incapable of really navigating your career to the best of your abilities, for one I am sorry. It's trash. It is a terrible situation to be in, to feel as though you have walked a thousand miles, you've crossed deserts, you have swam oceans. You have done everything above and beyond where you felt that you needed to be, where everybody else needed to be, and you walk into the room and people are still questioning your right and your ability to be in there and succeed. That's trash. Secondly, find allies. Find a safe space. Find somebody who is able to look outside of themselves and see you and really want to help you, and I am sorry that, again, it seems to be your responsibility to do so, but we gonna be alright. And thirdly, and I can't stress this enough, find a therapist, and here's why I say find a therapist. You will have days at work, some days, that make you feel as though it is all in your head and you really have no idea what's going on, but when you write things down and you're able to really talk through what happened and why you feel the way that you do at work it really helps. It helps you see yourself, see the truth of the situation, and also create, like, a plan of attack as to how you're going to address the nonsense that you are--that you are facing. I wish all of you love and light. I think we said all of that--not to be performative, but in the show notes we'll have a list of suggested readings for anyone who is interested in really learning about the crux of the conversation today, which was black feminism. We'll have some books, including Feminista Jones's book called Reclaiming Our Space, to help those who are interested in really helping black women at work. Zach, do you have any thoughts?Zach: I mean, nah. You said everything right there. I don't want to really encroach on your space. You did a phenomenal job. Let's continue on with our Favorite Things. You ready?Ade: All right, guys. Favorite Things. So this week, my Favorite Thing, it's called The Self-Taught Programmer by Cory Althoff. Actually, let me read the whole title. The Self-Taught Programmer: The Definitive Guide to Programming Professionally, and I've been reading this book, I mean, for the last couple of days between studying, and it feels good. I mean, it's giving some super actionable advice. It's not, like, a code-heavy or an algorithm-heavy book. Instead it talks about many of the habits that you need to build to be--like, to be really successful and have a sustainable trajectory, and it's been amazing. What about you?Zach: Yeah, so my Favorite Thing right now is obviously Feminista Jones's new book Reclaiming Our Space. It was a great, powerful, approachable read when you talk about around all items of black feminism. I love Feminista Jones's work, and what's refreshing about this book is that it captures the same unapologetic energy that she has, like, that's really part of her brand, and it just captures it well in this book. I think a lot of times you can end up kind of reading someone's book and it's like, "Man, this does not really capture your voice at all." It just doesn't really, like, align with things that I've read or things that I've--other things that I've seen come from you." This is not that, and it's also really convicting, right? Like, it--again, I think--I know rather that black women are often---their voices and experiences are often minimized, even when it comes to inclusion and diversity discussions or equity discussions, often times with black men being the predominant character in the--in the narratives that we drive, right? So, like, even when you talk--like, a prominent example would be police brutality, and they always say, you know, "Black men are killed at XYZ rate that's disproportionate," and that's true, black men are killed at ridiculously disproportionate rates compared to their white counterparts, but do you know who's killed at even higher rates disproportionate to their white counterparts? Black women, right? But, like, we don't--but when you talk about, like, the common talking headline, we don't say that. We don't say--we don't even just say "black people," we say "black men," right? Like, there's a desire to center them, to center us, in a space that--it's not even accurate, right? It's not even the whole truth, and I think that, you know, it's important for black men to recognize--and we talked about this during the interview as well, but to recognize that yes, we are--we are on the receiving end of oppression and white supremacy. We also benefit from a patriarchal society, and there are ways that we benefit from patriarchy that black women do not, and it is important for us to leverage that little bit of privilege that we have to help black women, 'cause they don't have--they don't have it. And that reminds me, we actually have a couple copies of her book, and we'll be giving them away. Yeah. So if you want to be entered in the drawing to win a copy of Feminista Jones's book Reclaiming Our Space, @ us a screenshot of a 5-star review on iTunes and caption Living Corporate, okay? So go on Instagram, take a picture, screenshot your 5-star review on iTunes, and then tag us in it, and we'll make sure to put you in the drawing so you can get the book.Ade: Dope. Well, thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like us to answer and read on the show, please make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. That's it for us today. This has been Ade.Zach: This has been Zach.Ade and Zach: Peace.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with Arent Fox associate Eva Pulliam. She discusses her career journey up to this point and shares valuable advice pertaining to privacy and security concerns. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement.Learn more about CBE Week here! https://www.cbeweek.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? Now look, if you haven't heard by now, Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing a Special Speaker Series to promote CBE Week, an annual week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we highlight movers and shakers who will be speakers during CBE Week. Today, we have Eva Pulliam. As an associate at Arent Fox, Eva works frequently with issues involving cross-border data transfers and international data privacy law compliance. Additionally, she has experience with helping clients comply with U.S. federal and state regulations that impact data collection, storage use, and disclosures as they relate to children, financial institutions, and others. She also continues to review emerging laws in the privacy area as they impact clients' data collection, maintenance, and breach procedures. Eva has been recognized as a next-generation leader in The Recorder's Women Leaders in Tech Law from a pool of over 200 nominees for extensive work in the tech industry. Eva regularly presents on advertising, intellectual property, and privacy. Her recent presentations have spanned topics such as the European General Data Protection Regulation, online gambling, and social media influencers. Eva, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Eva: I'm well, thank you so much for having me.Zach: Thank you for joining us. Now, look, for those who don't know you--I know I read a little bit about your bio, but would you mind telling us a little bit more about yourself and a bit about your professional journey?Eva: So I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, on the East Coast. I started undergrad at Howard University, and I've always had a love for the real HU.Zach: Shout-out to Howard.Eva: Yes, shout-out to Howard. I finished at Old Dominion and then went onto law school at George Washington University. I had a great experience. I just have a love for D.C. and spent most of my career and adult life in the D.C. area, but once I became [about a mid-year?] associate, one of my mentors shifted from our D.C. office to our San Francisco office, and I was offered the opportunity to come along, and I took the opportunity as I never want to make a decision out of fear. That's one of my guiding principles. So I said, "You know what? I'm gonna not be scared to California, go cross-country away from family, and take the bar all over again," and here I am in California having a great experience. I've been able to work internally at technology companies and just really get to get a whole new grasp on tech from a hands-on perspective. So that's been--that's been my journey thus far, and it's ongoing.Zach: That sounds incredible, and, you know, I have a sister-in-law who moved--she went from Texas and then went to Spelman for undergrad, then went to University of Michigan for the rest of her undergrad. Now she's in San Francisco. So it's interesting to watch her and her path, and so I would imagine, you know, your journey was similar in that it's just completely different worlds, you know? Like, you jump from one coast to the other.Eva: It has been an extreme culture shift, which is part of what gave me the passion for CBE when I met Angela Johnson, the founder of CBE, and she spoke about it. The lack of unity or a united black professional community in the San Francisco area was a bit striking and unexpected. I had been slightly warned, but it was a different thing to see it. I found some really amazing friends and people in the community, and I think that CBE is gonna do a lot to help bring us all together and help to grow the community. It gives you the vibe of CBC Week, the Congressional Black Caucus Week, that I grew up with in D.C. So it's kind of bringing CBC to the West Coast, and I'm really, really excited about being a part of it.Zach: Well, it's incredible, right? 'Cause it's interesting for me, and I think black folks, we're not a monolithic culture, right? So me coming from, like, a Southern perspective, when I see kind of, like, what's happening in San Francisco on the coast, and I see all these black people with all these huge names tied to 'em, I kind of just assume there's an interconnected network or something there, but, like, not as much, right? And so that's why these types of events and these organizations, such as the Coalition of Black Excellence and CBE Week, are so critical and so important. Well, let's do this then. Let's talk a little bit about privacy, because I believe that's what you're--I believe that's what you're gonna be speaking on during CBE Week. So when I think about privacy, I think about making sure, like, no one has access to my social media, people can't log in to my email, but I know that it's deeper than that. I know that it's broader than that. So, like, could you talk a little bit about privacy and why it matters? Especially for black and brown folks.Eva: So I think that your definition of privacy is right on. The privacy law is concerning all things that make you you. And U.S. laws differ from European laws. European laws go a little deeper to include pretty much anything that would make you you. U.S. laws can be a little more limited in what's protected. In either case, the goal that I balance on a day-to-day is helping my clients to collect information and use it in a responsible way, so that when you provide information you know how it's being used, where it's going, and you're comfortable with that information. I think that the way that the individual consumer, or user, of various technologies and those providing their information online and offline, on paper, I think it's important that users empower themselves and actually read the policies and documents that are provided to them and understand what they're giving away. I would say that when I'm signing on for an app, for instance, if they ask to use my location, don't just click "Allow" right away. Know that when you click "Allow" you are agreeing to something, and I don't click "Allow" for location or use of my video or use of my contacts or my camera unless that's something that I actually need the app for and I understand how my data is being used. So I hope that users will walk away a bit more empowered. In the black and brown community, I think that it's something to always remember, that your data's being used, profiles are being created that, you know, you may know nothing about. It may be connected just to your IP address, the number that identifies your computer that you're using, knowing that this user shops here, eats this type of food, searches for this type of information, engages in these hashtags and conversations, and that you--people know who you are and that you're creating a profile for you and the type of advertising that you receive, be it positive or negative for your health or well-being.Zach: You know, it's just so interesting, especially when you used the word "profile." It reminds me of a story, and I don't remember the name of the comic. This was, like--hm, like, 4 or 5 years ago, but I remember I was--you know, I'm very active on LinkedIn. I have a--I have a very current profile. I have a headline. I have the image and all that kind of stuff, whatever. So at one point I got an email from a company that seemed on its face very legitimate. It seemed very established--well, it kind of had that startup feel, but very polished though, and the idea was "Hey, I see that you're on LinkedIn. Would you mind creating a profile on our page? 'Cause our website is mainly focused on mentorship. We will pair you with a college undergrad student, and you can help them as they prepare to graduate. You can be a mentor and a coach for them." And so, you know, it's like, "Eh, okay." I mean, whatever. And so it took me, like, just a little second, and you could essentially transfer your LinkedIn page to their website, right? And it would just kind of, like, lift and shift it over there.Eva: Yes.Zach: And so I did it. Like, I clicked it really fast. It said, "Do you agree?" Blah blah blah, and I clicked "OK." To your whole point, I did not read, did not really slow down and really read it read it. So then, like, I forgot all about the website. I forgot all about the thing. And so then, like, fast-forward, like, maybe 3 or 4 months later. I see a profile up on their website, and it's not my name, but all of the work information, all of the career history, all of the skills and stuff like that, it's an exact copy of my profile. And so I reached out to 'em and I was like, "Hey, you need to delete this, take this down," whatever whatever, and they took it down, but it's scary, the fact that, like, that was out there for months, and, I mean, it still might be out there now. I don't know. Maybe they just took that one version down. Who's to say how many shells they made, right? How many copies they made of that? Who knows?Eva: Exactly. Reputation control is a big thing, especially as black professionals. You are constantly mindful of the way that you are putting out yourself on the internet and just in the world. So having someone take over the identity that you've worked hard for would be a terrible thing, so it's good that you were able to at least--that you came across it. Far too many times I think we don't even find out when our information is used without our permission.Zach: Well, you know, it's becoming more and more commonplace when you hear these announcements of, you know, thousands and hundreds of thousands of passwords were leaked. It's more than common, and it's kind of like we just shrug our shoulders at it because--I think this whole world, like, the tech world and just technology in itself is so big and so hard to wrap your arms around that I think it's kind of easier just to default and be like, "Oh, it'll sort itself out," until you then get some notification that your social has been stolen or something crazy. Then you want to pay attention, but it's--like, there's plenty of, like, "little" things--quote unquote little. They're not little, but little things that kind of sprout up fairly common and often enough that we should be paying a little bit more attention I think.Eva: We should be paying a lot of attention. I think that, you know, identity monitoring is one way that you can help yourself, at least in the financial world, but then paying attention, like I said, to the privacy policies of what you're agreeing to. So at least when someone's doing something wrong, you're able to say, "Wait, I know I did not say yes to this. I know that you should not have this feature turned on on my phone. You shouldn't have any of this information," and sometimes people are using information that they--you know, they're not following the rules that they've agreed to. There have been FTC and Attorney General actions around that, and those are often who you have to turn to when someone becomes a bad actor. You're reporting them to, you know, regulators to help you sort these things out, but the more proactive we can be on the front end I think is going to help us a lot more in the long run.Zach: As technology continues to progress around us, right--I mean, it feels as if technology's almost growing at the speed of thought. Like, it just seems like there's so much happening. There's so many new innovations that are coming across month after month, year after year. As technology continues to grow, how do you see tech and privacy law needing to change and adapt, particularly around things like cryptocurrency?Eva: I think that cryptocurrency is a powerful tool that's still being worked through in some spheres. You know, we know that governments may be reluctant in some instances to give over control of the dollar. That said, where cryptocurrency's in place--and not just cryptocurrency but the actual blockchain, the bitcoin, the technology on which its built--it gives a lot of power in the sense that it provides anonymity. And so when we think of the black and brown community and institutional prejudices that have faced the black and brown communities, we have to remember that sometimes, you know, we can move in a bit of silence through cryptocurrency by trading and having finances and assets that are unidentifiable. It wouldn't be identified through black and brown until the decision to reveal, and that takes up some of the middleman, some of the potential prejudices that can arise when middlemen are involved. So I think there's a power to it, but I also encourage anyone interested in cryptocurrency to really research. Research the company or the type of currency that you're interested in purchasing. Research cryptocurrency itself. Understand the blockchain a little bit more, and do the work before following the fad. I think that that's the biggest--the biggest tip, is to never just follow the fad and, you know, "Someone did it, so I'm doing it too." Make sure that you actually know what you're doing. Know the technology and understand the finances behind it, and also understand the risks when you're doing any type of investment. But cryptocurrency and the blockchain, we'll have a lot more to do in the future I do believe, particularly with the potential uses for it. It can be used for polling and voting and a lot of ways, when we look at the recent elections and how the votes got mixed up we'll say or lost, and, you know, Atlanta and Florida vote issues. I think the use of the blockchain could be a beneficial thing in that you could submit your vote. It's all handled within the blockchain, and no middleman has any say in involving himself in that.Zach: No, I 100% agree. I think that there's so much power in kind of eliminating opportunities for bias, right? So a lot of times when we talk about bias, conscious bias, unconscious bias, a lot of times we try to figure out ways to change the individual, and maybe I'm being a bit of a cynic, but I think, you know, another angle that we could go from is let's just eliminate the opportunity for you to even be biased. Let's just make it anonymous, right, where can. Let's eliminate avenues for folks to be discriminatory, and let's make sure that, you know, where we can, we empower people, and empower the most, like, objective playing fields possible.Eva: Definitely. I think that there's a power in it, and that's because the black community holds so much power, and the brown community holds so much power, and I think that harnessing it and working together could create a very mighty force.Zach: Now before we get out of here, you know, any parting words? Shout-outs? Any special projects that you're working on? Anything at all that you'd like to share with us?Eva: I would--I guess my parting word is that everyone, please read your privacy policies and understand the way that your data is used, and from a professional standpoint I would say to just keep, you know, working hard and moving forward. I think that my career has largely been based on faith and intention, and things seemed to just work out the way that they're supposed to. Every setback has always ended up landing me where I want to be, including--I would say this move was an exciting and scary adventure, but it was definitely worthwhile. So I'd just encourage everyone to find their passion and work hard, and also protect your data. Protect who you are.Zach: Amen. You know, we might need to call this podcast episode "Protect Ya Neck." What do you think about that, Eva?Eva: Right. [laughs] I like that title.Zach: [laughing] Oh, man. Well, that does it for us, y'all. Thank y'all for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast, a Special Series sponsored by the Coalition of Black Excellence. To learn more about CBE check out their website, www.cbeweek.com. Make sure to follow them on Instagram @experienceCBE. Make sure you follow Living Corporate on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, feel free to email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Eva Pulliam, associate at Arent Fox. Peace.

Zach and Ade officially kick off Living Corporate Season 2 by announcing new… well, just about everything! New guests and blog posts, weekly tips provided by Tristan Layfield, and even new background music! They also discuss the expansion of Favorite Things and listener letters for Season 2.Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com or send us a DM on any of our social media platforms to submit your Favorite Things and listener letters!TRANSCRIPTZach: Ayo!Ade: What's good?Zach: We're back, we're back. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to Living Corporate Season 2.Ade: Sure is.Zach: Season 2, let's go. Look, more intentional--is it more intentional? Does more intentional--is that grammatically correct?Ade: I--I do believe so, yeah.Zach: Okay, great. More intentional. Bolder. More fun. What kind of topics do we have this season, Ade? I feel like we've got some hot stuff.Ade: We do. So this season we're gonna be talking about interesting stuff like supporting black when at work, which I personally am a fan of. Being disabled while other at work, respectability politics. I mean, the real behind the helpfulness of HR. Being Latinx at work. We have a ton more content. We got some great feedback from the blog last season as well, so we're continuing that this year. Definitely, definitely, definitely make sure you check us out. It'll be on our website, living-corporate.com, and on our Medium page.Zach: In the off-season, right, we actually made some moves, okay? So we bought more domains, right? Okay, so we got livingcorporate.tv. We got livingcorporate.co. We got livingcorporate.org. We really have every Living Corporate. We have livingcorporate.net, right? We have every Living Corporate besides livingcorporate.com, because Australia owns livingcorporate.com. Ade: Hold on. Now, this is the first I'm hearing of this. I have to fight Australia for--what?Zach: So it's a company in Australia, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they have livingcorporate.com, but we have all the other Living Corporates without the dashes, right, and the hyphens, so we're making these moves. Definitely excited about the blog. Like, that's gonna be great. Like, everybody isn't a podcast person, right? Like, we have this podcast. We love our podcast. The podcast is probably 90%, 95%, right, as we currently stand of what we have going on, but we want to better diversify our media offerings, because people engage in content in different ways, and we really believe in what we're doing. I would hate--I would hate for all the great things that we have going on to not be captured or not be absorbed rather. And speaking of more content and engaging people in different ways... some of y'all probably remember Tristan Layfield. Ade: Aye.Zach: Yes. He was a guest on the show last season on the episode--it was a B-Side for Landing the Job of Your Dreams. And he's a resume subject matter expert in terms of how to write them, and he's a career coach. Doing great stuff, right? Doing great stuff, and he's graciously offered to be a part of the Living Corporate team for Season 2 to give y'all his own nuggets of wisdom, and he's gonna put 'em on the show.Ade: Amazing. Shout-out to Tristan.Zach: To me that's crazy, right? Shout-out to Tristan Layfield and Layfield Resume, man. Like, shout-out to those folks over there. He's doing great work. In fact, can we get some applause? Can we get some applause for us right now, like, collaborating, sharing spaces?Ade: Totally.Zach: I mean, come on. Let's do that. Let's do that. Maybe even some air horns too, I don't know. That reminds me though, [inaudible] sound effects, drops and stuff like that, we're also gonna new background music this season. Now, look. We got a lot of feedback. People are really feeling the background music. I'm gonna call it blackground music, right? It's jazzy. It's soulful. It's refreshing, right? It's good. It's good. We've gotten good feedback on it. So we're excited about the fact that we're gonna have some new blackground music this season and new mixes for our SoundCloud. So look, we have a decent amount of followers on SoundCloud. Of course we have our most followers on Instagram, but look, on our SoundCloud, y'all, we drop mixes and, like, custom music. I know, I know, I know. You're like, "What? Y'all doing a lot." I know. Ade: We got the aux cord.Zach: We got the aux cord, we got the aux cord. And listen, the mixes are fire. They're not--there's no profanity or nothing on 'em, so when your colleagues at work, when they ask, "Hey, Jamal, do you have any music you'd like for us to play? We're having a late-night working session here." This actually happened to me when I was in Japan working with my colleagues. They were like, "Hey, let's get some music going on. Let's get some music going on." So one of my colleagues, I'm not gonna say who it was, wanted to play some Nickelback. I was like--Ade: Now, hold on. Hold on, hold on. What? Zach: Okay. So Nickelback, yeah. And I'm like, "Hey, uh, Brock, if you could just hand me the charger--hand me the aux and I'll handle it." And I take the aux cord, I'm playing the music, and let me tell you. Fire. We had a good time. They were like, "Ooh, what mix is this?" Then--another example and I'll stop--I had an orientation. So at my job, my new job, orientation. For some reason they were like, "Hey, our music isn't really working." Like, "Our playlist isn't working." I said, "Okay, cool." I plugged in my little--plugged in the SoundCloud, right? Work and Weekend Vibes Volume 1. Man. The guy, right? Senior guy who was coordinating the whole thing goes, "Hey, this is--hey. Hey. Hey, guy! Hey. Music's pretty good." I said, "Thank you. Thank you." It was great. It was great. We had a great time. So the point is we're gonna have more of that, okay? And it's gonna be fire, so we need y'all to check it out. Now, I talked about drops, right? Like, we talked about kind of, like, sound effects and stuff like that. Ade, what kind of drops should we have? Like, we're not a hip hop podcast, right? Like, we're not gonna have gunshots, right?Ade: I mean, you know what? I just feel like there are occasions in which something so fire was said that a gunshot or two might be appropriate. Zach: [laughing] That's so problematic.Ade: Listen, listen. I just feel as though there are some celebrations that require a *brap-brap* or two.Zach: A *brap-brap*! [laughs] Well, the funny thing is that culturally, right, culturally, like, there are different--you know, it's just--it's different. I've seen videos, man, of cats, like, just--I saw a video at a wedding. Everybody had guns, shooting them thangs off at the end, right? Like, as opposed to throwing rice they was throwing bullets in the air. It was crazy.Ade: So listen, as someone who has been to many a Jamaican function, yes. That's all I'm gonna say to that.Zach: Word? That's the wave? That's the wave? I don't know. That's--wow.Ade: I mean, a graduation, a baby shower...Zach: A baby shower? They're shooting--wait, whoa, whoa. They're letting 'em go at the baby shower?Ade: Nothing is complete--no celebration is truly complete until there's gunshots in the air.Zach: Until you let them thangs go? Wow. So this is the scary part about gunshots, right, is that when you shoot 'em up like that, I mean, just because of the way that gravity works, they're gonna fall, right? They're gonna come back.Ade: [laughing] What goes up surely must come down.Zach: [laughing] They're coming down. Can you imagine? Like, that is scary. You're in your house and you hear [sound of bullets dropping], and it's not rain? Like, "That is the smallest, fastest hail I've ever heard in my life."Ade: All I want to say is that [the sound Zach made] is not how guns sound.Zach: [laughs] When they fall. When they fall though. When they fall.Ade: You know what? I still don't feel like metal sounds like [the sound] when it falls on the ground. Feel free to correct me on this one.Zach: You don't think so? [laughs] I just think--I just think because they're so small. Like, they're bullets. They've already been fired, so they're not--Ade: I mean, that's cute and all, but metal just doesn't sound like that.Zach: It don't sound like that? That's [inaudible].Ade: No. I also know that if I ever need some on the spot sound effects you're not gonna be the guy that I go to for--Zach: Wow. My sound effects are fire.Ade: Are they though? Because thus far you've given me [the sound] and *brap-brap*.Zach: So I've asked you--so look, we've completely derailed, right? I asked you what sound effects we need. You've only--you've suggested gunshots.Ade: Okay, first of all, I didn't suggest gunshots. I said that gunshots should not be entirely out of our arsenal--see what I did there?Zach: Wow. Bars.Ade: [laughs] Should not be entirely out of our arsenal of sound effects. That's all I am saying personally.Zach: So what are we thinking? Are we thinking, like, maybe stuff from, like, a different world? Right? Like, I don't know--Ade: You know what? I don't--I feel like we should stay away from, like, sitcom-y sounds, but also just not be dead... so there is an in-between here, and we just have to walk the road and find it.Zach: We do. So yeah, more on that. We'll figure out what exactly those sounds are.Ade: See the wisdom I just applied there without saying anything at all?Zach: No, no, you did. No, no, it was good. It was good, it was good. Ade: I appreciate my roses when I get them. I'm sorry. I'm acting a fool today. All right.Zach: Okay.Ade: Back to it. Favorite Things are back.Zach: Yeah, they back.Ade: However, this year--stay with me here--we want y'all to submit some of your Favorite Things.Zach: There you go.Ade: That's right. I'm tired of being clowned for my Favorite Things. I feel as though it is only fair that we open up our space to include others, open up our horizons by sharing with us what brings you some joy or the next week or the week after that.Zach: And you know what? Speaking of, like, sharing things, like, let me just--let me just talk about what we're sharing today, okay? We're sharing space. So you may say, "Well, yes, Zach, we are sharing space in this corporate structure as non-white people in majority-white working places, and yes, we have to figure out ways to share and navigate space--" No, no, no. I'm not talking about. I'm talking about we're practically sharing space today. Ade is sharing space in a golf room of her--of her apartment. So if you hear this, like, whooshing sound in the background, those are not beheadings. That's a man swinging at a golf ball with fiber in his being. He is hitting it as hard as he possibly can. He knows--Ade: As hawrd? Zach: Hawrd. Hawrd, yes, as he--as he possibly can. He knows that we are in this room, and this is how he's choosing to share the space with us. So--Ade: I just--first of all, he's--like, this is--this is the intended purpose of the room.*SMACK*Ade: That's one. Two, let it never be said that I don't go to some extremes for Living Corporate, okay? Because I have recorded--Zach: No, you've made--this is up there with when you recorded that show with Christa in the closet with all the blankets on top of your body.Ade: I have contorted myself into some very interesting places for Living Corporate, so I just--again, I appreciate my flowers when they are given to me.Zach: No, you are--you are appreciated, it's just I don't want to be implicated in any type of murder.Ade: See? See? Why you gotta be like that? *SMACK*Zach: Because it sounds--because it sounds so scary to me, right? Like, it sounds--Ade: Imagine being the person.Zach: Man, no, no. That sounds terrifying. Okay, let's continue. So I know we talked about Favorite Things. Listener letters.Ade: All right. Listener letters. So we're taking both Favorite Things and listener letters, wherever you're choosing to submit them. So whether you want to email them, DM us on social media--preferably Instagram, but wherever we be at, you be at--submit your Favorite Things, and we will absolutely shout you out, share your Favorite Things, and maybe talk through some of the irritating things, or awesome things, that are going on in your corporate world. So if you want to talk about your coworker accusing you of stealing their lunch, drop us a line. If you want to talk about the amazing win that you've had or the proposal that you just won or the grants that you just wrote or just about the fact that you don't feel like you're getting anywhere in your career at all. Whatever it is you want to share, let us know. We're here. What else?Zach: I mean, that's a good--that's a good point. We really want--we definitely want the letters, right? And we definitely want the Favorite Things, so just submit 'em. Like, we're flexible. We're available, right? We're here for y'all. We got all these domains, right? We got all these different social media platforms. DMs open on all of 'em, you know what I'm saying? You just hit us up. Of course we prefer it in email, so who cares? Send it to us.Ade: [laughs] Who cares what our preference is?Zach: Yeah, who cares about our preference? We are here to serve y'all. That's serving leadership, you see what I mean? Because we love y'all, you hear?Ade: I see you, change manager. I see you. Zach: That's right. Look, you gotta put yourself last, okay?Ade: I don't know about all that. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] "Wait a minute. Hold on."Ade: [laughs] Hold on, now. Nah, nah.Zach: "Hold on, hold on. Not last. Maybe not first." What about second to first? All right, so what else? Okay, yeah, yeah. So look. Now, we've said this--we've said this multiple times, and I need, like, some--I need, like, some softer sentimental music, kind of like the music before you donate to those dogs and stuff with their eyes all big and the cats, and they look all sad. I need that in the background. Ade: [supplies sad music acapella style]Zach: Listen, y'all know that we need 5 stars. Y'all know that we need 5 star ratings.Ade: You know I'm not about to do this with you, right? [laughs]Zach: For a simple two seconds. A one-time donation of 2 seconds. You can actually contribute to the over-arching health and promotion of the Living Corporate podcast if you just slide over to iTunes, the podcast section. Scroll down on Living Corporate's little page on the podcast. It's gonna say, "Leave a review. Leave a rating." You're gonna take your finger, and you're gonna just press 5. 5 stars. Ade: 5 of 'em.Zach: Do you have 5 on it? 'Cause I've had 5 on it, okay? Ade: [singing] I got 5 on it.Zach: Now, we're not gonna get copy--we're not gonna sued for that because we didn't play the audio. Ade: We didn't, and also Jordan Peele has made it kind of creepy, so...Zach: Yes, he has, and so we actually probably won't even reference that again. Ade: Yeah, that's gonna be the first and the last time we do that on the sh ow.Zach: Facts. But look, really, we need 5 stars, okay? So please do us the favor of giving us these 5 stars. And look, let me just go ahead--so that was the--that's kind of like the carrot, you know?Ade: Okay. First of all--there's no stick, number one. Number two, I just want to say we also appreciate your comments that come along with those. So if you want to share any feedback, if you'd like us to bring any guests back or a rerun episode or maybe get a little bit deeper on a topic that we've discussed in the past, let us know. But yeah, give us the 5 stars.Zach: So there's no stick, so I didn't mean it that way. That was me being softer, right? But, like, let me just be practical. We have, like, thousands upon thousands of downloads on our podcast every month, and yet we only have, like, 120 reviews. Ade: It's very hurtful.Zach: Right? It hurts me, right? I'm like, "Yo." And then people will be like--and then people be on Instagram, "This podcast influences me the most every day. I love listening to this podcast," and I feel the love, I do, but I would feel it more if I could get some of these 5 star reviews. So what can we do to, like, help support 5 star reviews? Like, how can we--how can we encourage the audience to participate in 5 star reviews, Ade?Ade: I have an idea.Zach: All right, go ahead.Ade: We could do giveaways. Zach: Giveaways? Giveaways is a--okay, okay, but what are we--what are we giving away? 'Cause it's not like we have--Ade: If you send us screenshots of your review, you enter a drawing. How's that sound?Zach: Right, but what do we have though? It's not like we have any, I mean--Ade: I mean, we do have Living Corporate mugs--hold on, I'm pretty certain we do. We have mugs.Zach: So that's an announcement, right? So that's, like, a two-in-one, right? We have mugs, and we're gonna do giveaways.Ade: Aye.Zach: Okay, so we do have mugs. I agree that we should do giveaways, so let's do that. Yeah, so we have, like, these Living Corporate mugs, y'all, and they're actually pretty cute. They're really cute. They're big, so, like, you know, you can put a lot of whatever your drink of choice is.Ade: Coffee. We're drinking coffee.Zach: Coffee. Listen, let's not--Ade: Although if you're making--if you're adding a little whiskey in there, that's between you and your cup.Zach: I've seen it. It's potatoes between you and your cup. Don't ask me about what's in my cup, you know? I won't ask.Ade: I really feel like that needs to be a thing. "Don't ask me about what is in my cup."Zach: Don't ask me about what's in my cup. No, I mean, I've seen it, and, you know--like, you see it on TV a lot, right? And I don't think it's, like, crazy, but I have seen people have a little something at the bottom of their drawer for the end of the day. I've seen that before. More so in industry. I've definitely never seen it in consulting, but I have seen it in industry. So okay. Cool, cool, cool. So yes, we definitely will do the giveaways. And they're not on the website yet, right? Like, we don't have the merch on the website, but we do have mugs. And we're not popping enough, I don't think, to justify us trying to sell y'all some mugs, okay, but we do have mugs that we can give out for free to encourage y'all to support the Living Corporate team.Ade: Word. Zach: What else? What else? Okay, okay, okay. So, you know, really this season of Living Corporate--so, you know, we learned a lot, right? Like, last season, of course it just being our first season--we're not even a year old yet. You know, coming in, just trying to figure out, like, what the tone is gonna be, how we address topics. And so y'all, really though, expect more intentional, like, commentary and content and just, like, general topics. Expect more fun, right? So we're gonna try to be a little bit more laid-back. Last year was really scripted. We got that feedback a lot, but we were trying to just make sure that we were keeping things succinct and tight, and we didn't want to miss--Ade: Because as you can see, we have a tendency to stray completely off-topic and wander down alleys of distraction, but--Zach: But, you know, it is what it is. And the thing--and the thing about it is, I think--I think the other point is, like, more people than not have said, "Hey, you know, we'd really like to, like, get to know y'all more." Like, "We'd like to get know you and Ade more, understand y'all's relationship. We'd like to get to know other people on the team. You said you've got other folks around." Like, "We'd like to get to know people more," and I think there's way that we can both approachable and personable and at the same time being, you know, still--like, still stick true to what it is we really ultimately want to talk about. But yeah, I just wanted to let y'all--just say that part, because we're really excited about this season, you know? Y'all know. Y'all know it's a crazy time out here. 45 got all us messed up. Yeah, I said it. I said it. Ade: I mean, these are just facts.Zach: They're facts. They're facts. They're facts. They're Facts Kellerman, okay? They're--[laughs] Hey, side-note. So apparently somebody in the DMV--Ade told me that some people be walking around saying "factory." [laughs]Ade: Hold on, what?Zach: So, you know, people will be like, "Facts." Ade: That sounds--that sounds like something that you say in, like, Waldorf. Zach: [laughs] You said "factory." Like, "factory?" That's not--no, factory is a whole different word. That's--no, that doesn't work.Ade: Nope, nope. And I know that there is, like, a trend of saying things are true when they aren't, word to your president, but...Zach: Factory.Ade: I'm here to categorically deny any and all claims that we say that in the DMV. We just--we do not.Zach: Yeah, no. That's not gonna work. Ade: Actually, let me not--let me not do that, because the teeny-boppers might. But what do they know? They're teeny-boppers.Zach: They don't know. They don't know. "Factory" is not the way. "Factory" is a whole other word. But the point is, you know, it's just a crazy time. Like, we know it is. We see--we're seeing stories of, like, blatant inequity and inequality and oppression and just general wrong-doing every day, and, you know, there's plenty of spaces that you can engage for, like, fairly moderate, semi-safe, (rarely?) wholly-safe discussions around--dialogues around race. Or, you know, you can tune into CNN or whatever for that. You can tune into anything else for that. Like, we're trying to have, like--Ade: Tune into who?Zach: I was saying, like, CNN. You know CNN. They'll be like, "A Dialogue On Race: Part 1." "A Dialogue On Race: Part 2." You know? Like, we're not trying to have quote-unquote a dialogue. Like, we're trying to really center and respect and give credence to the perspectives of people that are not often heard, right? Irrespective of how senior they may be in the organization or what their education level is. They're not heard, they're not seen, and so, like, we're trying to drive content that centers them, that affirms that, and that really continues to encourage folks to be thoughtful and empathetic to their neighbor. And, like, that's what we're trying to do. So, you know, this season is gonna be--our hope is it's gonna be way more courageous in that way. Not to say we weren't courageous in Season 1, but, like, I want to--I want to be more courageous season-to-season, right? Ade: Right, and to add to that and not interrupt you--my bad.Zach: No, you're good. You're good.Ade: Part of centering the voices of black and brown folks in this space means we're not going to be doing the "there are good people on both sides" BS, because I'm sorry, like, you're not gonna equate my voice to that of a Nazi.Zach: Right, yeah. That's super true.Ade: That's, like--of all the things that we're gonna do, that's just not going to be one of them on this here platform. And I'm sure there are--I mean, there are plenty of spaces in which you could do that. This just is not going to be one of those, and I'm perfectly comfortable categorically saying that.Zach: Yeah, straight up. Because this is the thing, like, it's not--and I think that's the other issue, like a lot of times when we have conversations like these, we present it like, "Oh, well, you know, both sides just need to understand." Like, no, both sides don't really need to understand. Like, one side needs to be more empathetic and conscious of their behaviors, actions, and their privileges, and the other side--the other side don't need to do nothing. Like, nah. I was gonna say we should be more--you know, we could be gracious and just kind of, like, be willing to receive the help, but, I mean, nah. Like, a lot of times we don't even necessarily need help as much as we just don't need harm. You know what I mean? And so anyway, I--Ade: You're my fav, Zach.Zach: What'd you say, Ade?Ade: You're my fav.Zach: [laughs]Ade: 'Cause you got there, 'cause I really was about to be like, "What was that?" No, but the fundamental premise remains that it's actually harmful that the conversation is constantly asking those without power to be gracious and to have mercy and be kind and do all of the emotional labor for those with power, and I'm not just speaking to racial dynamics. I'm also speaking in any and all forms of--and we know that intersectionality is a thing--but speaking to any and all forms of misaligned dynamics, power dynamics, and the onus is almost always on the oppressed to coddle the oppressor, and I'm just gonna say that 2019, it's not--that's not the wave we're on. You're either catching up or you're getting left behind, and I feel like we just took a very, like, sharp revolutionary turn [inaudible], so let's dial it back and talk about our social media. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] Man, it did. I was like, "Dang, if I take that ball back and I continue with this wave, the next pivot's gonna be too aggressive." Let's transition back onto Instagram.Ade: [laughs] Right? This is the kickoff episode. Let's treat it as such.Zach: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ade: And we've definitely been going on for a nice little while now.Zach: [laughs] Well, this is the thing, right? Historically you're absolutely right, that it's often been the oppressed's job to massage the feelings, emotions, of the people who have--who are the oppressors, who are the people with authority, who have the power, privilege and access.Ade: One more thing and I promise I'll shut up.Zach: Go ahead.Ade: I won't.Zach: No, don't shut up. Go ahead.Ade: Here's the other thing. I wonder how much more we could be doing, and by we I mean just people who fall on the wrong side of the power dynamics. I wonder how much more we could be doing if we didn't expend all of this time and effort and energy and just emotional labor on managing the emotions of others, right? I wonder how much more--I think of it as "If I spend all of this time thinking through what my words will sound like as a woman, as a black woman, as a black immigrant, as a queer woman, as a Muslim..." Like, all of these things. So I think about all of the time that I think that I spend expending time and energy on making sure that I present myself appropriately. If I just took some of that time back, do you know how much more time I would have? How much more energy I would have to expend on things like sleeping?Zach: Straight up.Ade: Right? Or...Zach: Exercising. Drinking more water.Ade: Drinking more water, which--by the way, if you're listening with us right now go ahead and grab yourself a glass of water and just sip.Zach: Take a sip.Ade: Take a sip. Anyway, but I think the fundamental point remains that--and I'm not saying that everyone goes around all of the time carrying that weight, but it is a significant amount of time, and it's almost not even a conscious thing that you do anymore, that you, as a woman, apologize for speaking in a meeting. Like, "Sorry, I just wanted to say that..." What are you apologizing for, sis? Just say what you have to say. Say it with your chest. But that's part of this, like, training that you get as being the person on the wrong side of the power dynamics. In 2019, I would just like to say "That's done." That's canceled. That is over.Zach: That is canceled. We're not doing that, and, like, we really want for people to come here and genuinely feel affirmed. Like, I'll give a really quick story. So, like, when I was in Japan--first of all, Japan is amazing. I can't wait to go back. Beautiful country. I was in Tokyo. It's a beautiful city. And I'm walking just--like, I'm walking down the street, and I see, like, another young black man, and we kind of look at each other. I give him the nod, he gives me the nod, and I'm walking, and then, like, I kind of turn over my shoulder, and he's, like, turning over his shoulder at the same time, and, like, he's looking at me. Like, we're looking at each other again, and we smiled, and I just kind of--I turned back around and I was just like, "Dang," and, like, I ain't gonna lie. Like, call it corny, call it cheesy or whatever. That made me feel really good. Like, I felt great, and I carried, like, this little awkward smile with me for, like, I don't know, maybe like a minute, right? And there were no words exchanged. There was just a certain level of just--there was a certain level of power and just love that you felt from just being acknowledged and seeing someone in a space that you did not expect to see someone that looked like you look like you, and then they see--y'all see each other. And, like, Living Corporate, I think that whatever we can do to give--I would love for everybody to feel that feeling that I had that evening, for those, like, 65, 70 seconds. It was a great feeling.Ade: That's dope.Zach: Yeah, straight up.Ade: All right, let's close this out.Zach: Oh, yeah. Social media, social media. [laughs]Ade: Yeah, so follow us on social media. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] Okay. So on Instagram we're @LivingCorporate, on Twitter we're @LivingCorp_Pod, then we got--well, Living Corporate, if you just Google us, you'll see us on LinkedIn. We're everywhere, so make sure you check us out. We're everywhere that y'all are, and I think that does it for us on the show. Remember, this is the kickoff. We have more content coming for you. [in accent] More fire for your head top. Was that a good accent? Or not really?Ade: No, sir. Please never do that again. Be blessed.Zach: [laughs]Ade: No, be best. Don't do that.Zach: Be best. [laughs] Ade: Whoo, all right.Zach: All right. Well, this has been Zach. Ade: This has been Ade.Zach and Ade: Peace.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with 500 Startups venture partner Clayton Bryan. He sits down with us to discuss his career journey up to this point and to share valuable advice for young leaders and founders, particularly in the VC space. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement.Learn more about CBE Week here! https://www.cbeweek.com/Learn more about Transparent Collective: https://www.transparentcollective.com/Learn more about HBCUvc: http://www.hbcu.vc/Check out the Dorm Room Fund: https://www.dormroomfund.com/Check out 500 Startups' VC Unlocked: https://education.500.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and listen, y'all. Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, CBE, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing a Special Speaker series to promote CBE Week, an annual week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we will spotlight movers and shakers who will be speakers during CBE Week. Today we are blessed to have Clayton Bryan. Clayton has over 12 years of experience in the tech space, initially working as a marketer. He transitioned into business development and over the past 3 years has worked in venture capital. Currently, as a venture partner at 500 Startups in San Francisco, Clayton is focused on the media, e-commerce, and frontier tech. Clayton is also one of the co-founders of Transparent Collective, a non-profit launched to help founders of color connect with investors and mentors. Prior to returning to the Bay Area, as a member of the Dorm Room Fund team in New York, Clayton worked with and invested in some of the best and brightest student-funded startups on the East Coast. With that being said, welcome to the show, Clay. How you doin', man?Clayton: Zach, I'm doing great, and to all the listeners out there, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whenever you might be listening to this. Happy to be here, and looking forward to, you know, having a good conversation.Zach: Absolutely. So look, man. Of course I read your profile in the introduction, but for those of us who might be wanting to know a little bit more--I know I'm one of those people--would you mind talking a little bit more about yourself and your journey?Clayton: Sure, happy to hit on some of the high notes and the milestones. So I'm originally from the Bay. Big shout-out to Oakland. And, you know, growing up I always felt this gravitational pull towards technology. I was fortunate to be able to have an Apple II back in the day and played, you know, some games on that, everything from, you know, Oregon Trail to Mavis Teaches Typing, Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing. Yeah, those are some of the OG titles.Zach: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this real fast about those games though. Did you ever played this game called Gizmos and Gadgets?Clayton: I don't recall that one. That one--Zach: 'Cause man, it was really dope. Okay, okay, but you said Oregon Trail. Did you ever play that Mario typing game? Where you type and then Mario moves?Clayton: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was a classic too, you know? So for everyone from that era, you know, those were great, and I think that they did a good job of really kind of getting a lot of folks into technology and just, you know, bringing up that awareness. And so once I saw the application of that--and then I also was able to go to, you know, great places as a kid growing up in this area. Places like the Lawrence Hall of Science up in the Berkeley Hills, and, you know, really getting to see all of these cool things happen with science. And so when I got to high school I started to code a little bit, and I took CS in high school. When I got to college, I thought that was gonna be my track as well, but I happened to go to a school where there's a really tough computer science program, and I was like, "Actually," you know, "I think I'm a little more creative than this." So I wanted to touch technology, but not necessarily from the coding perspective, and so I became actually--I was a poli-sci and economics major, and then when I graduated I joined Yahoo as a content marketer, and I was there for a couple years. Then I decided I wanted to go do the startup thing, so I worked at a couple different startups, and that's when I first got--started to really hear the term "venture capital," and back in the 2000s it was a very different time and place within Silicon Valley and the way that we think of things. Investors weren't blogging, they weren't tweeting. It was very obscure as to what investors actually did. Now it's different. Now, you know, you see--it's kind of a who's who on Twitter. Twitter has a VC category you can follow. There's Medium. It's just very easy to kind of stay plugged into that scene if you really want to learn how different investors are thinking. There's a lot of information out there. Back in the 2000s that was not the case, but I was very fortunate at the time--one of the companies I was working with, we had done a Series A and a Series B--and also the check sizes were much different than a Series A and a Series B were today--but I was the seventh hire, and I got to really see, you know, what these meetings with investors look like, and I was exposed to that, and I was like, "This is kind of cool. This is interesting," and that's really, you know, kind of planted the seed for me to want to be on that side of the table. And so fast-forward a couple years. My first--my first kind of role where I was in an investor-like seat was running an accelerator program that focused on underrepresented founders, and so through that program I got to know a lot of folks who I'm gonna shout-out later on in, you know, our conversation. But I got to see--I was even closer, but the problem with that program was that we were not writing checks, and I wanted to actually deploy capital. In order for me to feel comfortable doing that I decided, "Okay. Well, I want to go back to school," which was kind of a controversial decision at the time, because I still think MBAs are not necessarily all that welcome within the space, but I think it's changing now. But for me it leads--the decision was to go back, learn more about finance, build up that skill set, and then finally venture out as a venture capitalist, and so that's what I've been doing since 2015, and I've been incredibly blessed to join a great team at 500 and incredibly blessed to be a part of something called the Dorm Room Fund. And yeah, that's my journey in 3 minutes or less.Zach: Man, that's incredible. And, you know, it's interesting--you know, to your point about some of your decisions being a little non-conventional, still--you talked about yes, there's definitely more information to learn about venture capitalism and being a venture partner. However, Clayton, I have to be honest, man, I'm still really kind of confused when I think about the role of a venture partner. So, like, would you mind sharing a little bit more and kind of breaking it down, what it is your role entails? On, like, what you actually do on a day-to-day basis?Clayton: Sure. And, you know, I think--before I answer that I'll answer a question that I think is a good kind of intro or good for just context in terms of, you know, "Well, how did I get here?" And "Is there a certain path?" Right? I think a lot of folks that want to get into venture are like, "Well, how can I also get into venture?" And I think, you know, a couple years ago there were maybe two different pathways in, where, you know, being a founder that had success. So exited a company, sold a company, right? That was a path. Another path would be, you know, becoming an executive at a top internet company, a big brand that, you know, everyone in the States would know, and then really develop a skill set in sales or marketing or even people ops, and then market yourself to one of these firms as being able to add value. But today, you know, there are so many different firms that are popping up, and I think that if you talk to the folks that are at these firms, they all have different pathways in. And so I think the primary thing is just to have that interest and really network, and be beneficial to founders. Be beneficial to folks that work at these firms. Do the job before you have the job, and I think that's a great way to do it. And there's great programs out there, like HBCUvc, Dorm Room Fund. There's a lot of different programs out there, depending on where you are in your stage of life. We have one at 500 that's called Venture Capital Unlocked. First Round Capital has one called the Angel Track. So there's a lot of programs out there that will help you, you know, kind of get the right skills, because things change so frequently within this space. So I would say that was a little bit of a prelude to the next thing, which is "What do I do on a day-to-day basis?" Well, you know, no two days look alike. I would say the core of my duties, really I'm out here trying to help founders, and so I'm meeting with founders all of the time. If you look at my calendar at any given point in time, there's a lot of meetings with some of the current investments that I have, some of the investments that are a little bit more mature, meaning that, you know, I'm not working with them on a day-to-day, because we have an accelerator program, and so we're--it's essentially like a boot camp for entrepreneurs. So we're helping them with their marketing, their sales. We're helping them really craft the way they're thinking about their investor strategy, and then also with the execution, because a lot of the folks that come through our program, you know, they might be really good at their core competency, whether that's, you know, data science or agriculture tech or spinning up something--you know, some kind of hardware play, but when it comes to the nuances around going out and fundraising and selling your business to the investor audience, it's a little bit of a different type of game. So just understanding and acquainting yourself with the language and the types of models and terms that are being used at this stage. I'm talking about things, you know, as far down as, like, customer acquisition costs, but just understanding things like, you know, your revenue, your different growth rates, right, and how to present that in a way that's meaningful, impactful, but translates well into the minds of investors. So a lot of what I do is coaching. I'm always looking for the next best--the next greatest thing, right, that I can invest in, but even if I can't invest in it right now, I still need to be able to talk to with those founders, help them as much as I can, because I'm always looking for potential, and that means a couple--that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but I'm out there always looking for potential. So a lot of what I do I categorize kind of as just, like, helping founders. That would be one big category, and then other things that I do is meeting with other investors and really trying to assess how they're looking at the market or markets right now, what's interesting to them, because as someone that's at the seed stage, I--at the end of the day, I need to have confidence that I can help my companies raise money, and if the later-stage players are not as actively looking for deals in that category, it might be--it might not be the right time. Timing is so big in what we do, right? It's a huge--I would say timing and [seeds?] are so important. So you really have to get an understanding, if you're a founder, "Is this the right time for me to go and fundraise for this business? Should I try to hunker down, just focus on product right now, and come out in 6 months when things might be a little bit different?" Right? So again, going back to that fundraising strategy piece, but a big part of what I do also is just networking with investors, networking with other stakeholders in the States, folks that might be doing products at Slack or Pinterest or wherever and just asking them, "What are you seeing that's interesting within your category," right? Because that's helping me make more informed decisions when I'm looking--when I'm crafting my theses, my investment theses, and when I'm starting to go out and I'm meeting with different founders trying to see "Can I find founders that think similarly about the way the future's going to be, and then can I back those founders?" And that's--at the core of my job, as someone that's thinking actively about my fiduciary to my [inaudible] partners, I'm constantly thinking about that, right? Constantly trying to think about the trends that not everyone else is seeing just yet, right? Especially at the early stage. That's what we have to do. We have to be able to look across--look around not the next corner but two corners, because we're investing at such an early stage.Zach: Man, that's just--that's incredible, and there's--you know, I have--I have a couple questions about that role and how you show up. Before I ask that question, you know, all of the things you're talking about and the brands that you're mentioning and the conversations that you're having, I'm curious, how many--how rare is it to see black men moving in this space? And I'll say--I'll just say people of color. I'll just say non-white folks to start, but then how--but how rare is it? It seems like it would be rare.Clayton: Yeah. I mean, like, it's rare to see women. It's rare to see Latinx. It's rare to see black men. It's rare to see anyone that doesn't fit a certain profile of what you're already named, right? And so it is rare, but I think it's starting to get better, and, you know, I can't quantify that growth rate, but I think that more and more investors are starting to realize that there's a need to have multiple perspectives, right? We can't all think the same when we're doing an investment. We can't all, you know, have been trained at the same academic institution and travel in the same social groups, because we're gonna miss out on big movements. And even on a geographical note as well. There's big things that are happening across the continent of Africa, right? And there's big things that are happening all across the world, and we can't just think in that tunnel vision of "What's the next greatest thing that's gonna come out of Northern California?" We have to think--we have to think beyond that, right? And so there are things that are helping. There are things that are getting us where we need to be, but I think that the pace can pick up. And I mentioned, you know, groups like HBCU VC, which I think are great, but we need more of that. We need more of that, and we need more funds like what, you know, Chris Lyons is doing with the Cultural Leadership Fund. We need a lot of that. We need to amplify that times 10 at least, because I'm not seeing enough folks that look like me and have similar backgrounds when I go to these different conferences, different networking events, and I think that's problematic when we start to really see, you know, what's getting invested in, who's getting invested in, right? There's steps out there that talk a lot about that, you know? Talk about the amount of fundraising going to folks of color compared to, you know, folks that are coming from, you know, I'd say more common backgrounds within tech, and it's staggering in terms of the disparity.Zach: You're absolutely right, and we actually had an--we actually had an episode about that last season where we talked about--where we talked about being in venture capital while black, being in venture capital while other, and we discussed the disparity and fund allocation to the point where--they were talking about certain demographics, it was, like--to represent it in dollars would've been, like, basically zero, right? So it's nuts, and that--to your point though about the role, you know, it seems as if your role requires, like, a cocktail of being able to kind of influence without direct authority, a lot of emotional and social intelligence, and then also all of that still being backed up by significant business competence. Can you talk a little bit about how you show up being, you know, one of the few, and what is it that you're doing in these spaces that are--that are majority white? And what challenges, if you have any, have come with that?Clayton: Yeah. I mean, I think it's just, like, being able to paint pictures. Like, for one, I mean, you definitely need to have your facts, right? You need to have your facts and your stats down, and you need to be able to help those around you, and I'm talking about other investors, see what these trends are telling me. I need to translate that over to them, right? And I need to translate it over to them in language that they will be able to understand, because at the end of the day, like, we're all here to try to, at minimum, 3X our money, if not greater, right? 5X, 10X, and sometimes, you know, if these other investors lack that background, they might not be able to understand things in the same manner, right? And this is why I think every board room--and you're starting to see this within big tech companies, like the Twitters and the Salesforces and the Googles of the world, where they're realizing that they're building products for the entire world, so they need to have a team that reflects that, right? And so--but in the venture scene, we're not seeing that as--you know, we're not seeing it develop as quickly. So for me, in order to go in, you know, I need to be able to pound the table, have the facts, but really build these theses in a way in which can align with what my firm wants to do, right? And so I think a lot of it is just, like, you have to go the extra mile, right? You have to really put in that extra work, and it's making me a much better investor, but part of me is like, "It shouldn't have to be this hard," at the same time, right? Like, if I want to do a deal that's founded by a person of color and I think that--and I'm able to show the data, the trends, all of this is really supporting going in this direction, right? And it's funny, sometimes even money that's coming from outside of the United States sees it better than money that resides within the United States, because it's--like, they understand how emerging markets work, and sometimes, you know, if you put it in that lens, like--I mean, we're not emerging, but we have the same capability of an emerging market in terms of the growth potential. Then a lot of the dollars from overseas are like, "Oh, I want in on that," right? And so sometimes it's just you have to be creative, but, like, you just have to--you have to persevere. I think that's the biggest thing, is really, like, you just have to keep willing to push through, and that's the same note that I want to give out to the founders listening, which is, you know, you have to knock on--especially the seed level. You're gonna have to knock on a lot of different doors. I have founders that come in and tell me, like, "Look, I heard "no" 91 times, and I heard "yes" 9 times, but that's all I needed to close my seed." So don't get--you know, don't get, you know, depressed. Don't have anyone try to knock you off your hustle. You're gonna just have to find the folks that your message resonates with the most, and so that's the message I want to give to the founders that's out there.Zach: No, that's incredible, and you're absolutely right. You know, my father--you know, he's a bit of entrepreneur, financial background, sales background, and what he would--he always tells me is he's like, "Son, you know, you don't need but one yes." Like, often times you just need that one. Like, people keep on--like you just said, you know, the majority said no, but you really just needed, like, a scant few to say "yes" for you to continue forward. And I think it's hard though when--you know, when you continue to present and you present and you present, and, you know, who knows what those no's look like, right? 'Cause a no is a no, but, like, you know, the way that they--sometimes the way people tell you, you know, can hurt. Like, maybe you were told no like, 10 times, even though you were just told no once. You know, so those types of experiences. It's tough, so that's great advice. Before we--before we let you go, do you have any other parting words, shout-outs, or special projects that you're working on?Clayton: Yeah. So I just want to, you know, give a shout-out to Transparent Collective. You know, it's a great initiative that we're trying to, you know, continue, and we're actually looking for sponsors for that. So that's a--it's a great initiative. It's a labor of love, and I want to see that continue in the future. So folks out there that might be interested in sponsoring, hit me up. Big shout-out to--you know, this is gonna be a little bit of a long list, and there's people that definitely if I--it could be a lot longer, but, you know, I want to keep time in mind. So big shout-out to Monique Woodard. She's done a lot to help me out professionally. Big fan of hers. Chris Lyons, Marlon Nichols, Connie LaPuebla, Richard Kirby, Eric Moore, Austin Clements, just to name a few. And then also I love what initiatives like Black VC are doing and also HBCUvc, which I mentioned a few times in this podcast. So that's it. And also one last shout-out to all the founders out there, all the hustlers, all the innovators that are grinding right now. You know, keep building. Keep moving forward. Keep persevering. I know it might be tough. I know that, you know, it might be disheartening when you hear "no" here and there, but you really gotta keep grinding, and you will find your path. And, you know, to the best extent that I can, I'm always willing to make myself available for folks that have questions on the businesses that they're building or the careers they're trying to build, because I believe that you really have to pay it forward in this world. So on that note, that's all I have, and signing off. Thank you, everybody. It's been a great pleasure to have this conversation.Zach: Clayton, man, first of all, the pleasure has definitely been ours. Wonderful feedback, thoughts, and points of advice here. We're gonna make sure that we list all of the organizations that you listed, that you named off, that you shouted out, in the show notes, and then we'll also make sure to have your LinkedIn information in the show notes as well so that people can reach out to you as they're able. Now, I think that's gonna do it for us, folks. Thank you for joining the Living Corporate podcast, a Special Series sponsored by the Coalition of Black Excellence. To learn more about the Coalition of Black Excellence check out their website CBEWeek.com, and make sure that you actually sign up for CBE Week, which is gonna be happening February 18th to the 24th of 2019--that's this year, come on, y'all--in the San Francisco Bay Area. If you go to their website, you'll be able to learn more, get your tickets, and all that kind of stuff right there. Now, make sure you follow us on Instagram though, okay? @LivingCorporate, and make sure you follow CBE at @ExperienceCBE. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. Check out our website, living-corporate.com. This has been Zach, and you've been speaking with Clayton Bryan. Peace.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with Tucker Ellis partner Monica Williams Monroe. She sits down with us to discuss her career journey up to this point and to share valuable advice for younger leaders in the corporate environment. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement.Learn more about CBE Week here! https://www.cbeweek.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and listen, y'all. Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing a Special Speaker series to promote CBE Week, an annual, week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we spotlight movers and shakers who will be speakers during CBE Week. Today, we are blessed to have partner at Tucker Ellis LLP Monica Williams Monroe. In her capacity as local national and trial council, Monica represents a variety of corporate and insurance interests, including those of property owners, service contractors, product suppliers, and equipment manufacturers. She defends clients in several litigation areas involving premises liability, including both premises owners and subcontractors and claims arising from construction improvements. Monica also handles client matters involving general council--sorry, general contract analysis, business disputes, real estate litigation, and bankruptcy proceedings. Monica, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Monica: I'm great. Thanks so much for having me, Zach. I'm excited to be here, and it's a super sunny day here in California, so no complaints on my end.Zach: There we go, and no, excited to have you here, and shout out to California. Definitely a beautiful place. Just got back from San Francisco a couple weeks ago. I had a great time. For those of you who don't know you, and I recognize that I gave a little bit of an intro, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Monica: Sure, yeah, and thanks for reading that background, but basically I'm a trial lawyer. I try cases here in Northern California and actually throughout the state, and I'm entering my 16th year of practice, which is kind of hard--Zach: Wow, congratulations.Monica: Thank you. It's kind of hard for me to believe that. I'm currently the Partner-in-Charge of the San Francisco office of Tucker Ellis, and the focus for my work is really on [inaudible] litigation, which is just business disputes, and product liability. Like I said, 16 years. It's really hard to believe, but I still love what I do, and it feels like a new challenge kind of every day. So that's a little bit about me.Zach: Wow. So now, you know, would you mind talking to us--so you talked about 16 years, [inaudible], and again, congratulations. Please talk to us about your professional journey and how you became a partner at Tucker Ellis.Monica: Yeah, yeah. You know, I was thinking about that, and just kind of even going all the way back, you know, my path was a little bit different than some others. I started out--I went to undergrad at Clark in Atlanta, and when I was in college I thought that I was gonna be in communications. I was really into marketing and PR. That's where my focus was. My degree was in communications. Then when I got out of undergrad, that's straight--what I went into was a media sort of focused career, and while I was there doing that work--it was really fun and exciting, but I still kind of wanted to do something different. So I had a few friends who were actually looking at law school. I had never thought about it. I'm the first lawyer in my family, and it just seemed like an interesting path for me. I've always, again, loved communication, loved words, and then kind of a wordsmith, and so I thought, you know, I should try. Some people encouraged me to go ahead and try and apply to law school, and when I did I ended up not just getting accepted, but I ended up getting full academic scholarship offers. So when that happened I was like, "You know what? That's probably something I should think about pursuing," and so I ended up, you know, going to Loyola Law School in L.A. I loved, loved, loved it. Had a fantastic experience there and practiced for a little bit after that in a few different areas. I did some transactional work and just dabbled in a few different things before I ended up at Tucker Ellis. And people really encouraged me as I sort of moved along, and when I found litigation, when I found myself in the courtroom, that's when I really found my love, and I was like, "Oh, you can do this. You can basically get up and argue with people, and people pay you to do this? I'm in." So when I really found my love and then found the right firm, I just matriculated through so quickly. I joined Tucker Ellis as an associate, and then I moved up later into the council position, and then in 2016 I was elected into the partnership, but for me it was really a natural progression. It was sort of just the thing I loved to do, and then I got lucky enough to be surrounded by people who really encouraged me and fostered me along the way.Zach: That's a beautiful story, and that's awesome. And, you know, it's interesting also, because I can count, like, the number of black lawyers that I know on one hand, and none of them are really working at a--at a firm. Like, they have their own kind of private practice that they've set up. What is your experience in navigating that space?Monica: Yeah. I mean, I think for me it's really been purposeful. It is a beautiful story, and I love my story, but it definitely didn't come--you know, it didn't sort of happen by accident. I really just surrounded myself with a network of folks, either, you know, both inside and outside of my organization. No matter where I've been, and that's been true for me now, is that I have a network of people that I can go to. When I'm figuring out my next steps, I'm definitely using them as much as I can as a sounding board. People who have done what I done and then some, people who are at positions that I can only dream about, right, that I think are really successful, those are the people that I kind of reach out to and say, "Do you think this looks right?" Like, "I'm headed in this direction. This is the next thing I want to do," and they give me honest and real feedback, and I think that that's the most important thing for me, is that I don't surround myself with people who just, you know, sound fantastic and tell me how great I am. They're real, and they'll tell me whether or not, you know, my goal or my expectation needs some more time to cook or if I really should be going after sort of that next thing. And so that's kind of how I got to the partner level, was really just having that strong network of folks, both inside and outside of the firm.Zach: So I'm--first of all that's awesome, and I know for me, in my experience, having folks who are in your corner, who you can talk to, who will give you honest feedback, right? Who are not just a cheerleader section, but at the same time ain't a bunch of haters too, right? But people who really care about you (laughing) and who actually will help you and help make sure that you're--you know, that you're staying on track and that you're--when you have ideas about the next steps that they actually make sense, and they're people you can trust, really. You know, as a senior leader who is also a black woman, do you believe that you have had any particular hurdles or challenges to navigate when it comes to building trust and establishing rapport and really building and leveraging influence?Monica: Yeah, that's a great question, and that's a very real, true thing. I mean, we have some very real stereotypes and perceptions I think, you know, for communities of color and black women in particular, that we have to deal with and sometimes break through, and for me, I think I've learned to try to find the commonality, right? I may look different than someone else. I may--you know, maybe come from a different background, but I try to find the commonality so I can develop the rapport and gain the trust, right, of others, whether it's inside of the firm, whether it's client relationships. Those are the things that I think bring us together, are the commonalities, and, you know, to be sure, I am--I've got a lot to work with. I am a first-generation American on my mom's side. She was from Panama, and my dad was born in the South and then later raised in New York. So I was constantly sort of surrounded by people of different cultures and different socioeconomic backgrounds. I spent a summer, you know, in Brazil one year, and then spent the next summer in Brooklyn. And for me, you know, I think my parents really--I look back, I think they probably did a lot of that intentionally, because I feel like when I walk into a room, no matter what it looks like, I'm comfortable, and I look for what I have in common as opposed to--you know, what might be different between me and the folks maybe at the table or in the room. So that's, you know, something that I talk to a lot of young lawyers about now, is when you're building your brand, sort of figuring things out and trying to develop a report, look for the commonalities. And like I said, I feel like I'm lucky, 'cause I have--I have a lot to dabble in. There's usually something I can find where I connect with someone. But that's important, you know? When you're working, particularly in the legal industry, you know, we're dealing with problems, right? People are not coming to me when they're necessarily happy about what's going on in business, and so you've got to trust me, and we have to have a good relationship to get through it sort of together, and same thing internally, you know? We are sort of building--we have a business and a law firm that's built on helping other people with their problems, so people in the firm have to trust me to move things along, you know, whether it's just in the office setting, with human resources or with clients, and we have to--you know, people always default to that. I feel like when, you know, things get tough, they default to just a common style of communication and the commonalities. So that's--that's what I try to do.Zach: So I definitely--that's just--that's great feedback to give, because often times I think it's easy for us when we feel--when we feel other, it's easy for us to, like, further otherize ourselves and be like, "Okay, well, of course. Of course you're not gonna," you know, "trust me, because I'm X, Y, and Z," as opposed to kind of leaning the other way and being like, "Okay, wait. Well, let's just--let me think about some of the things that actually are common between us that I can really leverage and really play to," and maybe even overplay to, in the spirit of creating those bonds. So when I talk to professionals--and you talked about younger lawyers, and so--you talked about 16 years. I've been working for about 7 years, and when I talk to professionals in my peer group--so, like, kind of, like--not mid-career, but, you know, early, early-career still professionals who are also black and brown, one of the things we always commiserate together is the feeling of not being heard at work, right? Like, we're speaking up in meetings to contribute or we're facilitating a meeting, and for some reason or another we're not connecting with our audience. Sometimes we'll even have the words that were shared repeated back to us as if we didn't say them. And so I'm curious, have you ever experienced that? And if so, you know, what advice do you have for younger leaders trying to manage that, you know, emotionally, mentally, and professionally?Monica: Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's definitely something that comes up. I think in various times in my career I've, you know, experienced that. We all have. The first--the first advice is just breathe and try not to take that stuff in personally, right? Especially if you're facilitating a meeting. That's tough, when you feel like you're not really connecting with your audience. That's just a tough kind of situation to sort of navigate through. And it may be an uncomfortable meeting, and it may not kind of go the way that you want it to, but my--you know, the way I dealt with it and the way I talk to young folks about that is just stay true to you and stay true to yourself. And you're talented, right? That's why you're facilitating the meeting or why you're raising your hand, because you have something of value to add and you know that, and so you're speaking up. And so just having that understanding that you are adding value to the conversation or to the room or to the group is huge, and if you stay sort of true to that and understand that, you know, it may just be that somebody is looking at you a certain way, and they're not seeing you or hearing you, or they're, you know, kind of overlooking what you're saying, or it may just be that that person, you know, is not in tune or connected for the day. It could be a variety of reasons, and so--those settings too are moments and opportunities where we try, as senior leaders, right, to listen to what's going on and to really validate, right, what someone's saying. Like, if I were in a meeting and you were talking, and I felt like people weren't connecting with you, I would probably jump in and say some things like, you know, "Another point that Zach made," and I would really try to validate what you said in order to get people to hear you, because now we're building consensus sort in the room. And that kind of goes back to that whole point, right, of having your mentors and your network and your allies around you, because people that are down for you will do that in the meeting setting, and they will make sure that they're kind of ushering things along for you. And I personally--when I look back now, I know I've had people do that. I just didn't know what they were doing at the time. [laughs] You know? And now I'm like, "Oh, yeah." You know, "That person was fully supporting me and kind of ushering my thought along," 'cause maybe somebody didn't hear it or didn't want to hear it, but then another voice came in of someone senior, and it was her. And, you know, that's just kind of the setting--the corporate setting, right? Sometimes it's unfortunate that it takes that, but it's helpful to have, and I know a lot of women in particular are very good about doing that. You know, for a lot of other women of color, when we're in meetings, they try to sort of support and really validate what the other woman has said, especially if we feel like someone wasn't paying attention or the room just doesn't get it, you know? So that's kind of how I look at it. And the other thing I would want to say about that setting is it might have just been a bad meeting, and you may get through it and it wasn't great, but debriefing afterwards is always huge. Like, if you feel like it didn't go well or you really weren't connecting, find somebody, you know, that you would consider to be an ally--if you don't already know that they are--in the room and ask them afterwards, you know? "What could I have done better?" "What did you think about it?" And, you know, take it from there.Zach: No, those are great points. Now, let's do this. Before we get out of here, any shout outs or parting words?Monica: [laughs] For sure. Well, definitely a huge shout out to Angela Johnson, the CEO and founder of CBE Week. This is an amazing opportunity for us to get together and not just network, but to build each other up and to improve on so many levels. So for all of the work that Angela's doing, I just want to give a shout-out to her. But for parting words, definitely--we'll be talking about this, these topics, at CBE Week, and I think it's a huge opportunity for us to get together and really, you know, talk about building our brand and being strategic and thoughtful about where our careers are going, so I'm really excited about the panel that I'm on. We'll have a whole host of people in legal positions, in diversity positions, really trying to help those, no matter what stage you are at in your career. You know, we can all use advice, right, on how to strategize and build ourselves up for the next step and make sure we have the support that we need. For me, this is, like, a true passion of mine, is trying to work with the pipeline and the next generation and making sure we all have access, you know, and opportunity, and so I'm so excited about CBE Week and our ability to, you know, talk about these issues. So I want to say thank you to you for giving us this platform.Zach: Yes. Well, thank you, Monica, and this is awesome. And actually, that's a great segue, 'cause that does it for us on this particular interview. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast, a Special Series sponsored by, you guessed it, the Coalition of Black Excellence. To learn more about CBE Week, check out their website CBEWeek.com. Make sure to follow them on Instagram at @experienceCBE, and make sure you follow us on Instagram at @LivingCorporate, Twitter at @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Monica Williams Monroe, partner at Tucker Ellis. Peace.

Zach and Ade stop by for a brief New Year's intermission in this special episode of the Living Corporate podcast. Living Corporate's CBE Week Series continues next week, but for now, enjoy this check-in! They discuss the importance of effective goal setting and share their New Year's resolutions.Find out more about CBEWeek here! https://www.cbeweek.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? That's right, it's Zach.Ade: And it's Ade.Zach: Aye. And listen, we're not back back, and we ain't even really back, but we're here in the middle of our CBE Week Speaker Series.Ade: Yes.Zach: Yes, that's right, just to say Happy New Year.Ade: Happy New Year.Zach: Happy New Year. So look, it's 2019. Now, I don't know how many of y'all do resolutions or how often y'all do resolutions, but we had some resolutions we wanted to, you know, just talk about as we think about 2019, as we prepare for 2019 mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, all of that different stuff. So yeah, here we go. So Ade, look, before we get into these resolutions, do you do resolutions often? Like, is this a thing for you? Or is this, like, a new thing or what? Ade: So it's weird. I don't really do New Year's resolutions. I do birthday resolutions. I think that starting with the new year is not necessarily as significant for me personally as starting with my birthday, because my birth--I mean, not to sound self-centered, but it's about me and on my timeline, and so for me it's more honest, actually, to say that in my 23rd year, or in my 24th year, or in my 25th year, I would like to make these changes, and this is who I aspire to be, and becoming a better person starts on November 1st because that's when my life started. Now, January 1st is great though because it sort of allows you to have accountability partners, and you're better able to say, "Me and my group of friends will be doing XYZ in order to get to ABC goal." Does that make sense?Zach: Yeah, it does, definitely. No, I get that. You didn't ask me, but--no. [laughs]Ade: [laughing] Haha, haha. Well, you--I asked to clarify.Zach: Also I didn't really give you any space to say anything. [inaudible].Ade: You really didn't, you really didn't.Zach: No, I didn't. I just hopped right in there.Ade: You did, so back up off me, bruh. [laughs]Zach: [laughing] No, no, that's a good point. I mean, it's funny that you say that, 'cause I think--I'm not a big resolutions person. This is probably, like, the--I don't know, maybe fourth or fifth time in my life that I've done New Year's resolutions, but when I think about making resolutions to myself, typically they're around my birthday or more recently, in the past half-decade, they've been around my wedding anniversary with my wife. So we'll make them together, right?Ade: Dope, yeah.Zach: At the same time, I think whenever you can identify some type of pace or cadence to create some goals and points of progress of yourself, all good, right? It doesn't have to be--it can be whatever date you want it to be, but I think as long as you're doing--you're mindful of that in some way, I think it's good for you. Okay, so let's get into it. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?Ade: You go first. I think I liked what you were talking about earlier, and I want you to share with the people, you know? Look at me, a gracious host. [laughs]Zach: Look at you. [laughs] Okay, so my resolutions--so the first one is to read more, right? So I feel like I read a good bit. Like, I read--I read okay. Like, I definitely read a lot of articles. I read a lot of, you know, just pieces as they come up, especially as the world has been going on today. I read a lot of political pieces. I read The Atlantic often. I don't really read The New Yorker as much, but I read. I'd like to read more. I'd like to read about a book every other month. You see what I'm saying? I didn't give myself a crazy--like, "a book a month." Like, I'm not gonna do that.Ade: Look at you.Zach: Right? So I'd like to read six books by the end of 2019. The second thing is of course just continuing to get healthier. I want to be around. The world is crazy as it is, you know? Plenty of things could take you out any day, so you don't want one of those things to be yourself if you can help it. Ade: Right. Don't be your own enemy of progress.Zach: Right, do not be your own enemy of progress, yes. And then the third thing, which kind of connects to the second thing, drinking a lot more water, right? Ade: Hallelu.Zach: Right? So, like, you know, there are people out there--Ade: I just--I just want to take a second here. I really hate to interrupt you, but if you're listening, go ahead and find a glass of water and sip with us. All right, carry on, Zach.Zach: Yes, a sip. Sip, yes. No, seriously, it's delicious. You can have it cold. You can have it room temperature. You can have it hot, but-- Ade: Wait, hold on. Do you--do you just run around drinking hot water? [laughs]Zach: Ayo. So listen, actually--I do not, right? But I have a good friend of mine who--no, he loves hot water. Like, he loves it. Man, listen. Ade: Okay, I would like to speak to your--like, bring him on this show. I have so many questions.Zach: No, no. I'ma bring him on this show. I'm not gonna--I'm not gonna drop his name, 'cause this is very impromptu, but--Ade: This is--this is a safe space. I just have some questions for you, young man, because... huh? Okay, sorry. Carry on. I got us so off-track just then.Zach: No, no, no. So no, he does. He drinks hot water, and it was funny--so he's one of the people--I don't know if you have people like this in your life. You look up to them, like, to the point where, you know, if they do something that you're not really familiar with, and if other people did that thing you would clown them, but if they do it you're like, "Well, dang, why are you doing that? Let me--"Ade: "Maybe it's valid. Maybe I should give it a whirl."Zach: "Maybe it's valid. Maybe I should give it a whirl." "Maybe I should give it a whirl." Okay. [laughing]Ade: Okay, so first of all, you're not about to come for me, sir.Zach: "Give it a whirl"?Ade: "Give it a whirl." I said what I said.Zach: No, it's funny. [laughing] No, so he--so he was like--I came into his home and he was like, "Zach, so I've been drinking--I've been doing this thing. I've been drinking hot water," and I said, "Really? What?" And he said, "Yeah, would you like some?" And I said, "Sure," and let me tell you something, it was just hot water. It wasn't--I was like--Ade: I really was expecting to be like, "And it changed my life. It revolutionized how I look at water intake." No?Zach: No, it did not. In fact, I was like, "Man, I really would like some cold water right now." Anyway, where was I? Yeah, so drinking more water. So, you know, this kind of a case of two Americas. So there's a--for my non-melanated folks, you know, there's a phrase called "drinking water and minding your business." So drinking water and minding your business, it just saves a lot--it saves you a lot of stress and drama, right? So you look at Paul Rudd. Again, speaking to my--speaking to the majority, right? If you look at Paul Rudd, Paul Rudd is the greatest example of drinking water and minding your business, right? He looks great. He hasn't aged a day. He looks the same as he did in 1993. Right? He does. He looks phenomenal, right? Drinking water and minding your business--you know, I plan on drinking a lot of water, but I--because of the nature of our podcast, I don't know if I plan on minding, quote unquote, my business. I mean--you know what I mean? Like, my business is--yeah, like, my business--Ade: Your business is sort of everybody's business.Zach: Lowkey, right? Like, I'm not messy. Like, I'm not out here, like, Messy Mya. RIP Messy Mya. Look, now I'm talking to the black folks. I'm more so trying to--but I am trying to, like, be more hydrated, right? And, you know, there's the--our bodies are a majority water, so it's--everyone knows at this point it's 2019. Wow, it's 2019. So I don't have to--I shouldn't have to debate with y'all to drink more water, but please, drink more water. And also, speaking of--'cause, you know, we also do Favorite Things. We talk about music and stuff. A sleeper, shout-out Joe Budden Podcast, is the Mick Jenkins' "Drink More Water" project he put out, it was--Ade: You have lost me. You have lost me. I don't know what you're talking about. I also don't listen to Joe Budden's podcast, so maybe that's where the disconnect is right now, my friend. Zach: So "sleeper" is a term, like, you know, this is some music maybe y'all have missed or y'all don't really know about.Ade: Oh, 'cause the first thing I thought was a sleeper cell, and I was like, "All right, well, I--I have to bow out of this conversation, because I don't know anything about sleeper cells."Zach: No, no, no. No sleeper cells. Nothing like that around here. Please. Feds, please don't--don't get us. Ade: Right? We've got to go.Zach: Yeah, right? Now, look, we're gonna have to delete all of this, because Aaron's gonna transcribe this, and then it's gonna be all on Google and stuff. There's gonna be "sleeper cells"--Ade: Oh, see--nah, mm-mm. Aaron, just go ahead and--Zach: Delete all of this.Ade: Yeah. Zach: Yeah. [laughs] Anyway, so yeah, you know, I'm excited about that. I feel as if those are some smart goals. I feel like they're very attainable, they're realistic, and they're helpful for me for what I'm trying to do, right? They're very straightforward. So that's me. Those are my New Year's resolutions.Ade: Okay, okay. Now, I want to push back a little bit. Part of what is important when you're setting goals is to set intentional goals, right? There's this concept of SMART goals, and so that is--so you set Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound goals, and that way you have much more--you're more likely to achieve those goals. So by specific, I mean [inaudible] drink water--by smart I mean you want to drink water, so do you want to drink a gallon of water a day? Do you want to set time goals, like, "By 9:00 a.m., I've had 16 ounces of water." So I think goals and resolutions are all talk until you are able to really discern for yourself what those goals are, how you're going to make them happen, and what that timeline's gonna look like. So I'm gonna repeat what SMART is. You have Specific, you have Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound or Time-sensitive goals. So to give you an example, this year, in 2019, I want to get my solutions architect cert, my AWS solutions architect cert. I want to do that by July '19. So that is a specific goal. It's measurable because it's a certification, it's achievable 'cause, I mean, I can study for it. It's relevant to my larger kind of goal for my life, and it's time-bound. I have set a hard deadline of July 2019 to get that certification, do you see what I'm saying?Zach: No, I definitely understand what you're saying, and you're right. So opposed to me saying, "I want to drink more water," I should be saying, "I want to drink about a gallon of water a day." Instead of me saying, "I want to get healthier," I should say something like, "I'd like to work out at least two to three times a week and cut out sugary and processed foods." And, you know, I kind of did it with the book one when I said I'd like to read a book every other month. So no, I get it. You're absolutely right, and to your point, when we--when we're not specific and really truly smart--let's go ahead and just give out the acronyms to smart real fast. So it's--Ade: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound. Now, there are also some people who say it's SMARTER, where you have all of those that I just mentioned, and then you have Evaluated and Reviewed, which I think are also important parts of the goal setting process, but we don't have to go quite that far right now.Zach: [laughing] No, no, no. This is great. So, you know, it's important, because I think we--the less specific we are with the goals that we say we have, the more of an out we give ourselves to short-change ourselves in the future, right? So--and then also, if they're not specific to you, then you can end up kind of moving the goal posts on yourself and not really ever achieving [inaudible]. So if you say, "Man, I really want to lose some weight," right? I'm gonna pick on losing weight because losing weight is--like, almost everybody feels like they either need to or would like to lose some weight.Ade: Or the alternative for those of us skinny-minis who want to gain some weight, but gain healthy weight.Zach: There you go. Some people want to gain some healthy weight. Thank you. Let's be inclusive of all of our body types and health spaces. Ade: Aye.Zach: Aye. [laughs] So when you say, "Hey, I'd like to have this health goal," if you're not really specific in, like, the numbers you're trying to achieve or the--just what you're outcome is, then you can end up saying, "Well," you know, "I didn't really have to work out today. I just want to work out more," and you end up--you end up cheating yourself. Or you say, "Well, I didn't say I wanted to eat perfectly healthy. I just wanted to eat more vegetables," and it's like, "Okay..." And you just end up cheating yourself. So I think the more specific you can be and, like, more granular you can be with what your goals are, the harder it will be for you to ignore the fact that you're either off-track on them or not really driving towards them. So I super agree with that.Ade: Right. On that note, I'll share some of my goals. And I know I got on you for SMART, and some of mine aren't necessarily SMART goals, but we move. Anyway, so I would like to read and discuss five meaningful articles a week. Zach: Okay, okay.Ade: So that's whether they're in The Atlantic or whether I'm scrolling through Medium and some of the software engineering spaces that I follow. I'd like to be able to read and discuss five articles, and part of that is in finding some of the computer science fundamentals. Base CS has some really great--I don't know if I want to even call those articles, but some really great write-ups on computer science fundamentals, which are important for me to learn. So I'd like to do that five times a week. I would like to get my solutions [inaudible] earlier, my AWS solutions architect certification, by July 2019. This is--this next one I haven't quite figured out how I'm gonna do yet, but I want to reinvent my wardrobe. Now, I say that because I was having a conversation with my partner, and often times when we're out or we really have to go out, I'll just, like, throw on sweatpants and a t-shirt or whatever, and then when we get out I'll complain about looking like a hobo. Okay, that wasn't necessarily how I wanted to say that, but I'll complain about not looking my best self.Zach: Right.Ade: And part of that is just I didn't--I don't necessarily have all of the pieces that I want, and I want to show up, like, how I feel. I want to show up looking and representing myself in my best light, and so part of that--I'm still always going to be a joggers and tennis shoes kind of girl, but I don't have to be a four sizes too large sweatpants and t-shirt that I bought when I was in 7th grade sort of girl, you know? So that's important to me as well. I want to go to the gym once a week and work out of home three times a week. I'm going to create three projects for my portfolio, and I'm going to attend AfroTech in November this year. Those are my goals.Zach: That sounds--that sounds incredible. Those are great goals.Ade: AfroTech is also lit, and if anybody's trying to sponsor me to go to AfroTech, hit your girl up.Zach: Man, listen. Y'all want to sponsor Ade, y'all want to sponsor Living Corporate and we'll send Ade? Man, let's--come on. Get in our inbox.Ade: Let's go. Let us know.Zach: DMs are open for everybody. They are. True.Ade: Okay, uh, let's clarify. Not that open. [laughing]Zach: They are though. They're open on all the social medias. No, but that's--you know, to your first point, it's so interesting how, like--so as kind of, like, a fashion point, like, if you notice, like, there's--there's enough clothes out here to curate a bunch of different looks. Like, if you want to be, like, hobo chic, right, you could get, like, some really form-fitting--Ade: I'm trying to--I'm trying to really walk away from the hobo chic look, because I thought that was what I was doing. Upon further reflection, it's just--it's further towards the hobo end of the spectrum than the chic, so we're just gonna let that dream go.Zach: Got you, got you. 'Cause I was gonna say, like--and I don't know, like, what your preference is, but, like--you know, 'cause you could wear, like, some fitted--not fitted, but, like, nicely-fitting sweatpants, right? You could wear some nicely-fitting sweatpants.Ade: You're right, you're right. Look, if there are any listeners who are designers, who have an eye for fashion, hit your girl up, because I am confused. Okay? Okay.Zach: [laughs] And then [inaudible], that's also great. And then the five [inaudible] with these articles--you're gonna share the articles with me.Ade: Ooh, bet. I like that, yes. We can do that.Zach: Yeah, share the articles with me, 'cause I love--I love reading a good article. I think it's easier to read than reading a whole book. It's, like, typically one subject. It's not clearly as long, but I love articles, so yeah, please. I'd love to check out what you got going on. Then AfroTech of course, that's super dope.Ade: Yeah, yeah. I'm really ready.Zach: Okay. Now, look, I think--I know those are our resolutions. Before we get out of here though, what was the best thing you ate over the holiday break? Ade: Ooh. Oh, Lord. Jesus. I just want to let everybody know about the greatness of my girlfriend's shrimp and grits. So on New Year's Day, she made shrimp and grits, I made rum cheesecake-stuffed French toast, and we lived our best lives. Do you have actually--before we move forward, do you do the pork chop, collard greens, and black-eyed peas ritual?Zach: So I don't--it's not, like, a super traditional thing. Like, we don't do it every year, but I definitely have had it, like, multiple times in my life for New Year's. And, you know, outside of New Year's, but yeah. Ade: Yeah. So I did that as well.Zach: Oh, yeah. That's good.Ade: So for those of you who don't know, some African-American families, some black families, have a tradition wherein in the New Year they eat a pork chop or a pork product of some sort, black-eyed peas, collard greens, and some will throw in cornbread. And I made all of it. I don't eat pork obviously, but she enjoyed it. She seemed to like her plate, so that was great. And what else did we eat this break? We didn't spend a whole ton of time cooking a whole lot, but cooking is my favorite thing. I made a really dope burger for us both. It was--I don't know. I can't wait to cook for you honestly. I want you to come here so that I can feed you, and I'm honestly probably not gonna help your goals of losing weight, but the important part is that the food tastes good.Zach: No, I'm excited. I'll just have to--I'll just do a bunch of pre-workouts, you know what I mean? And post-workouts. It's all good.Ade: See? Yeah, there you go. There you go. And you might have to do two-a-days honestly, but--Zach: Wow, okay. Appreciate the honesty. So what else? So we talked about food. We talked about--we talked about our resolutions. Hm. Ade, what are you most excited about in 2019?Ade: I am most excited about leveling up. I think every new year is an opportunity to excel, and again, this is part of why I kind of count my new year at my birthday as opposed to at the calendar date, but it's a new year to kind of show the little person that you once were how dope everything could be, how dope you could be, how dope life could be, how dope you could make life be for those around you, and part of that is in wanting to wake up every day and crush it. And I don't mean to sound like we're in a huddle and I'm giving you a pep talk, but I think it's exciting when you're able to look your fears in the face, or look a whole new year in the face, and be like, "Yeah, I'm comin' for you." I was gonna say, "I'm coming for that" something else, but I don't think we're quite that explicit on this show.Zach: No, we're not that explicit. That's funny though.Ade: Okay. [laughs] Ultimately, I am excited about being granted another opportunity to get it right and get it right and excel at it, you know? So what are you excited about?Zach: Well, you know, it's funny. I really feel like I'm excited about the same thing. Like, 2019, it's an exciting time because there's so much positive momentum that I'm hearing from last year. Relationships made, some in-roads created with various things and people and projects, and of course Living Corporate. I'm really excited to continue that forward. We have a whole--[Lord say the same?]--we have another 12 months of this thing going on, you know, unless the earth ends, and so I'm excited about us just continuing forward. There's so much to do, especially when you talk about inclusion and diversity work. I feel like the whole field has just been blowing up the past few years, and it seems like every year, like, there's something new that comes along, some new, quote unquote, new piece of learning that everyone's gravitating towards, and I just think that, like, we're ripe in the season to be doing the work that we're doing. So I'm really, really excited about that. I'm excited about the content that's gonna be coming out of the Living Corporate platform. We have a writing team that we're very aggressively building up right now. We have some amazing guests that--you know, that you all will be hearing for Season 2. We just have a lot of stuff--we just have a lot of stuff cooking, and so I'm excited for us to grow, and then I'm really excited for our audience to see it and be a part of it and hopefully grow with us. I'm really excited about that.Ade: Yeah, that's amazing.Zach: Okay. Well, I guess that does it. I'm done. Do you have anything else, Ade?Ade: Yeah. So I just want to wish everybody a happy, safe New Year. I hope that, even if your year hasn't started on the highest note--if 2018 was not good to you, I pray that 2019 will, and I pray that, you know, this New Year is full of opportunities for you, and I hope that we are able to help foster a space that excites you and motivates you. That's it from me. Zach: Man, you always got the dope words. See, that's a great sign-off. [both laugh]Zach: That's a great sign-off. Yes, okay. Well, listen, y'all. You will be hearing more of us on the Living Corporate podcast later this month. This was just a New Year's hello kind of intermission type thing in the middle of our CBE Week Speaker Series. I hope that you all are listening to the series. I'm looking at the download numbers. Y'all are, but I need y'all to pick it up. That's right, I'm talking to you. Listen to the--listen to the show. Listen to the series. It's very good, and then make sure that you stay tuned, because we're gonna have more information about CBE Week as it comes up. So with that being said, my name is Zach.Ade: And I'm Ade. Both: Peace.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with speaker, author, financial coach, and clinical psychologist Dr. Rosche Brown. She sits down with us to discuss her website, Doctor of Rethinking, and she shares some wisdom for young black professionals. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement.Rosche's website, Doctor of Rethinking: https://www.doctorofrethinking.com/Find out more about CBE/CBE Week! https://www.cbeweek.com/TRANSCRIPTAde: What's up, everybody? It's Ade, and listen, we're--Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, like some of you may know. Coalition of Black Excellence is a non-profit organization based in California, and we're bringing a Special Speaker series to promote CBE Week, which is an annual week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This special series is one wherein we'll spotlight movers and shakers who will be speakers during CBE Week. Today we have with us Dr. Rosche Brown. Dr. Rosche Brown is a PsyD--I don't know too many of those. Congratulations on your awesome.Rosche: Oh, thank you.Ade: And a licensed clinical psychologist based out in California. Thank you so much for joining us today.Rosche: Thank you for having me.Ade: Most certainly, most certainly. So like I mentioned before, we're just gonna have a conversation. We're great fans of mental health, mental wellness, on this show, and it's so great to meet and speak to other proponents who are not just, you know, talking the talk, they're walking the walk in a lot of ways. What brought you to becoming a mental health professional?Rosche: So I became a mental health professional mainly because of my background and my childhood.; There was a lot of dysfunction within, like, my family, and also my community, with violence and substance abuse, and, you know, lack of communication, as is always in most families, and so actually at a very young age, when I was about 14 years old, I actually decided that I wanted to be called a doctor, and I wanted to be able to help people. People were already telling me about their lives, and I was like, "I can do this." And so at a very young age, I had already placed in my mind that I was gonna become a doctor of some sort, either a (pediatrician or a psychologist?), so I began to figure out, you know, what the steps were to becoming a mental health professional, or either one of those professions actually. So I ended up going to Xavier University, which is an HBCU, so it's a historically black college, in New Orleans, and by going to that university, it was all about placing African-Americans into medical school, and so there was--like, that's when I really understood black excellence to a whole 'nother level, just being around so many people who were at the top of their classes that were actually there, and so I went through that process, and with my major being psychology/pre-med initially--I had enjoyed psychology, and actually from there continued to go into grad school instead of going the medical school route.Ade: That's amazing. For one, your tenacity--you were in school from 2001 to--to how long?Rosche: I graduated actually in 2009.Ade: Oh, my God.Rosche: Yeah. Well, it was a long time. You know, I understand that's a long time in school, but in the grand scheme of things, from, like, the way that my life was, I actually was done with my degree at 25 years old, which is very young, and I was--I had my doctorate. I had my Bachelor's, my Bachelor's and my doctorate by that point. Like, my 26th birthday was like, "Happy 26th birthday, Dr. Roche Brown."Ade: Wow, that's incredible.Rosche: Yeah, so it was awesome. I mean, so even though it took some time, I was so used to school that it was a lot easier compared to people who would take a break and then [inaudible].Ade: Right, yeah. You just went straight through. Yeah, that isn't easy. What are some of the biggest--I don't know, what were some of the biggest issues that you dealt with kind of pushing your way through school? I know you said from a young age you kind of made a decision about the path that you wanted, but did you ever come across any obstacles in your education? How'd that go for you?Rosche: Yes, I did. [laughs] So I went to school, you know, out of--I mean, in a whole other world, right? Like, going to New Orleans coming from California. So, you know, I did get a good group of people who were around me, and so that part was great. However, you know, like I said, I was pre-med initially, and one big challenge--which was kind of an interesting challenge that most people wouldn't think of--but one big challenge was mostly, like, the MCAT, which MCAT is the test that you take to get into medical school, and the part that was hard for me was actually kind of growing up in--you know, in the hood, in the community. I was so used to, more than anything, not having to--I didn't have to read that much in life. Like, (Pops?) would make me read. I wasn't a person who liked reading. Like, it was very, very difficult for me, and most people wouldn't think so 'cause I did well in school. It wasn't like it was so difficult where I couldn't excel, but it was difficult when it came down to the MCAT because it was all of those, like, reading comprehension tasks. You ever have, like, on SATs or anything like that? [inaudible], and they wanted me to comprehend, and I was like, "Oh, Lord. I got ADD. I know I do." Like, "I cannot focus for this long." It was, like, an 8-hour test, and I just couldn't--even when they were asking me certain questions that I could know the answer to, because the way in which they were asking it, it was very difficult for me. I took a lot of prep courses, and in the process of taking those prep courses, when they translated it for me, I was good to go. Like, when they translated it, I was like, "Oh, I know the answer to that," but I had difficulty with translating it on my own, if that makes sense.Ade: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense actually.Rosche: Yeah. So it was really hard for me to--so even when they were asking me about biology, any chemistry questions, physics questions, all of those had reading passages, and that's where I really struggled. And so I end up going through school doing pretty well. Like, my GPA was fine. I had, like, a 3.5 or more, so I was doing well, but I got to that place where it was time to, like, apply to medical school, and my MCAT scores were just not, like, really making the--making the cut, and a lot of it had to do with just really poor reading comprehension and the fact that I wasn't, like, in a school or--wasn't in kind of, like, a family environment in a household that really encouraged reading.Ade: Right, yeah. That makes a ton of sense, and I can absolutely see the repercussions. You mentioned that you struggle with a learning disorder. How does that affect--well, how did that affect your education generally, and how does it affect you now?Rosche: I don't know specifically if I have a learning disorder. It's never been diagnosed as a learning disorder at all, but it's a lot of--it's more about me attending to things. Like, I just don't stay long enough to pay attention to, you know, the words and everything for reading comprehension, and so it's always--and it probably was always a struggle throughout school, but I never noticed it until that point, and then currently with me being an entrepreneur and the aspects of being an entrepreneur, you really want to read as much as you can. You want to read Think And Grow Rich and How To Win Friends and Influence People, all of these, like, great books that are gonna just motivate you and inspire you to be better and push yourself. It's always a struggle for me to sit down and focus in order to even read those types of books because I--my mind goes all kind of different places. So I want the information in the book, but sitting down and having to read it can be very difficult. Even to this day, like, I still would say I dislike reading, even though (I don't often say that?), but I'ma make my book reports and everything. I'm just gonna make them love it. [laughs]Ade: I can totally get that. I get that. So what impact--just kind of pivot a bit and talk a little bit more about your career as a mental health care professional. What impact has, I guess, your background, coming from Oakland, going to this illustrious HBCU in Louisiana, what has that--how has that added to your practice? Rosche: It has added a lot, you know? When I first started in school, you know--considering that I was so young, right? I was 21, 22. Most people in my class were, like, in their 30s, and so I felt like I--felt like I was, like, an impostor. Like, "How did I get into grad school?" You know, "How did they accept me?" You know? And feeling like I just didn't have enough life experience initially in order to do the work that I was doing, so initially it was, like, a struggle just to be--to try to do therapy, but then after some time--I would say, like, after I graduated, maybe around 26, 27, coming into my own as just a woman in general and having had a lot more experience in it, I started realizing, like, my background of life experience actually was really helping me, because the places that I was working, I was working in, you know, urban communities. I was working in Richmond. I was working in Oakland. I was working in communities that were very [inaudible] the same community that I grew up in, and so I realized that the way to build rapport and the way to build connection was really by utilizing what I already knew, the stuff that was even outside of grad school. It was just knowing even just practical skills that I had learned on my own. I learned how to navigate certain worlds, you know? I learned how to even just--I guess you say code switch, but I learned how to navigate in the community, but I also learned how navigate when I was in professional settings, and because I was able to do that, it really worked very well for me to build the best relationships with my clients. And then also I served as a role model, even unintentionally, that you can be something better. So, like, even the idea of just striving for excellence, the way that I saw my clients was like, "You can [inaudible] a doctorate. No matter what." Like, "I see your skill, where you are right now and what family circumstances you come from. I have expectations of you to get a doctorate if that's what you desire." I don't have lower expectations like some of my--I would say my white counterparts would often sometimes feel. Just like, "At least they're coming." I'm like, "No, your expectations should be a lot higher for them."Ade: Right, right. I'm so glad you said that because I think--I've heard a lot of conversation around the danger of lowered expectations and how important it is to kind of expect better of yourself, and I imagine that it is much easier to do so when you are surrounded by people who are doing the same. Rosche: Yes, definitely.Ade: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.Rosche: No, no, no. Just definitely. I agree.Ade: Yeah. So tell us about--speak a little bit more about kind of your practice and how you--any suggestions that you might have for young professionals who are navigating their way and kind of noticing a decline in their mental wellness.Rosche: So I think you mentioned something really good on the last point of, like, just the level of surrounding yourself by good people. I think that's always the biggest thing, right? So I would say #1 - surround yourself with the right people. I have an--I have an acronym that I often talk to people about, and it's called Check Your Pace, and what it means is, like, you know--have you ever noticed, like, when you've been physically walking with someone, and that person maybe started walking slower, or maybe they're unhealthy, out of shape, and you find yourself kind of, like, slowing down your pace in order to stay in connection with them, and then vice versa, versus you end up going with somebody who's walking fast. They're super healthy, and you're like, "Oh, my God, I'm trying to keep up with you," and if we can physically do that, like, unconsciously take on the pace of the person that we're walking with in a physical way, we ultimately do that mentally and spiritually and socially and financially, right? That, you know, we'll take on just kind of the energy of the people that are around us without even paying attention that we're doing so. So I just believe that it's so important when we're in this--like, just levels of being professionals or wanting to strive for excellence, that we first, like--the first part of pace is P, [inaudible], check the people that you're around, right? Because you are the average of the five people that you're around the most, right? So you want to check "Where is their money like?" You know what I mean? "Where is their career?" Like, you know, "What kind of degrees do they have? What's happening around them?" It's gonna be a reflection on what's gonna ultimately happen with you, and then also I think when it comes down to people, you also want to check what's all the--I call the A, the A part of pace, is alignment. Like, who are you aligning yourself with? And alignment to me is more vertical, like, you know, who's doing better than you in your world? Significantly better than you. You want to make sure you're aligning with that person who's making good money. If you're, like, making $50,000, and you want to make six figures, you need to be around a six-figure earner, right? You're a six-figure earner and you want to make $250,000, you need to be around somebody who's making $250,000, because there's no way for me to get there if I'm not around somebody who's actually showing me the habits that's necessary, the skills that are necessary to get there, right? So I have to be, like, in alignment with somebody who's even doing better than me in certain areas. So I believe that that's another area. The C part of pace is choices, and so you want to check every single choice that you make, right? And I was just actually at specifically this thing--this lady named Renae Bluitt, she just did a documentary called "She Did That," and it was talking about black women entrepreneurs, and what came out in that a lot was the level of not--of self-care and not practicing self-care, you know? Having that, like, Superwoman type of complex. Like, "I can do it all. I can do all of everything," you know? Like, "I can do family life. I can be--I can do everything in my career and not even outsource it, and I'm taking on too much," right? And I know I've been there. I live in that space a little bit now still, right? Where I haven't really figured out a way to release all control over what's necessary in my business, but it's also--it's creating a level of stress, and I think that we're just so used--specifically within our community, I would say we're always so used to juggling so much. So the mental health thing, we need to learn how to take breaks. We need to learn how to, like, you know, do even just mindfulness breathing. All about mindfulness, and I often tell people, even if you think it's weird, start with just five deep breaths, you know? We should, like, have five deep breaths, like, into our nose, holding it and breathing out. In our community, we know how to, you know, breathe in and--well, not just in black communities, but all communities clearly because now it's legal. People know how to breathe in and hold, right? Like, that's part of something that they do, but there's a way to do that without needing a product or an assistant. You can actually just learn the power of just breathing in, like, life force, and then being able to, like, hold it and then breathe out just kind of the waste and toxins that are in our body and even just, you know, negativity, and be able to learn how to, like, you know--to think more clearly. Like, "What's my next move?" Versus us just kind of going and going and going. And so that's a level of--that's the C. So kind of checking your choices. Sorry, I'm all over the place, but that's a part of my checking your pace. The C part is just check your choices. What choices are you making, and are they making you get towards your goal or away from your goal? And are you taking care of yourself in that process? And the E part of pace is expectations. Like, what are you expecting from your life? Because whatever we expect in our lives we will manifest in our lives, things that we're expecting unconsciously or even consciously. We need to really pay attention. "What is happening? What am I bringing into my life?" You know, people call it law of attraction or whatever it may be, but, you know, what's always coming into my life that I dislike, and how am I on accident and unintentionally bringing it into my life?" So, like, kind of check your expectations.Ade: That is--I'd really love to, like, follow up with that so that we can have a quick write-up for our listeners, but that was a great framework for kind of understanding your mental health and taking charge of that. Thank you for sharing it. Is there anywhere that--do you have any material that we can follow up with [inaudible] or anything that you would like to share or plug?Rosche: Yeah. I mean, I guess people definitely can go to my website. My business name is Doctor of Rethinking, and so my website is DoctorOfRethinking.com, and that's D-O-C-T-O-R-O-F-R-E-T-H-I-N-K-I-N-G. So DoctorOfRethinking.com. So, you know, on there you can get information about, you know, how to, like--you know, doing, like, coaching with me, or doing, you know--it can be therapy as well. I'm in more state of more solution-focused levels where we kind of visit the past, but we don't stick in the past as much as what therapy does anymore. And then also I do financial coaching, because I've come to realize that there's definitely, like, a psychology to the way that people spend and save their money, and so you can also go on there and be able to get information around, like, the financial area and even setting up an appointment with me for us to, you know, maybe meet and check and get educated on finances, what should you do next with your finances, and see what kind of solutions that are out there that might be helpful.Ade: That's a great point. I know that for quite a few of the people in my circle, a lot of our stress is financial. Being, you know, kind of the first person in your family to be a professional or the first person in your family to "make it," as it were, is a burden. Like, it's a blessing, but it's also a burden in a lot of ways, and so just finding out ways to develop healthy relationships with your finances cuts out a bit of the stress that you experience, yeah.Rosche: I mean, I totally agree. I mean, when you're the first person in your family to even be making money, and everybody around you, right, never knew how to, like, manage theirs, then now you have a lot of it and you're mismanaging yours because you don't understand how to manage your money, right? And you may even have a lot of emotions tied to your money, and then you also have family expectations that are tied to the money, right? And how do you set boundaries that are correct? I'll give you, like, just kind of--it's a simple example, but when I was--I used to work with foster youth, and I used to work with them in the community, and my client, her mom was a substance abuser, and I had substance abusers within my family as well, and she had--she had just got her first job, right? And she was like, "My mom always asks me for my money. What do I do?" And, like, for me, I know, like, coming from the community, I couldn't just tell her, "Don't give her nothing." You know? It doesn't really work like that. It doesn't work in families to just say, "I'm giving you zero," but I do believe that you should have a budget in mind of what you're planning on or willing to give to your family, if that's--you know, 'cause that's kind of how it works. I mean, "I know that I'm gonna have to give them something, but if I don't pay attention to what I'm giving them, I'll give them too much," right? And so what I often--what I told her, and I think it's the same even as we get older, is I told her, like, you know, put your real money--like, if you have $100, you know, you might want to put $90 of it in one pocket and then the $10 in the other pocket, and then when your mom says, "Oh, I need something," you pull out the 10 and say, "This is all I have," so hopefully she'll only want to take 5. [inaudible] you pulling out the 90, she'll need all 90, you know? Because she'll think that you're in overflow, and I feel like that's the same type of concept that even as we get older and we start to have more money that you have an idea of what I'm willing to pull out for my family so they don't end up taking my all and I'm finding myself in debt and, you know, poor credit and all this kind of stuff because I'm always bailing them out, right? And I'm ultimately bailing out irresponsibility. I'm never really teaching them to the skills to be better. I'm just--they're irresponsible, and I'm just gonna keep on helping their irresponsibility, and they're gonna always need me, right? So I need to figure out, like, what's the best way that I could, you know, bless them and, you know, all of that, but also make sure that I'm still doing what's right for me and my future.Ade: Right. That was perfect. Thank you so much for sharing that. We've kind of reaching the end of our planned conversation for today, but if there's anything else, any other wisdom that you'd like to share for young black professionals who are just kind of figuring it out on our own?Rosche: Yeah. I mean, it's--it's a process is all I would say, and I feel like every single step of the way, you know, you've just got to get help. You've got to get support when you need to. I recently--this is my own personal journey. I've been saying that you need to break up with your old self, and you have to break up with your old self, like, daily. Like, you know? And so I would say, like--so for me I feel like there's always--there's a part of me that's kind of holding me back at times, and it can be based on whatever - your personal experience, your child experience, backgrounds and everything like that, but some things are always holding you back, and so you have to kind of get to a place where, like, "Hm, how do I break up with that part of myself that's not really, like, serving me anymore," you know? Maybe it served me when I was younger, but it's not serving me now, and I need to really think about that a little bit. [inaudible]. Like, how do I--like, how do I go through the process of breaking up with myself and moving into my new, better, excellent self? Like an upgrade to myself, on a regular basis, and it could be simple things. It could be breaking up with, like, self-doubt, right? It could be breaking up with, like, your fears, breaking up with insecurities, you know, breaking up with poor habits, a lack of discipline. You know, all of those things, 'cause those things are really holding you back from your greatness. And like I said, I notice it in myself, right? And though other people outside of me can be like, "Oh, you're awesome, you're doing this, you're killing the game," but you know what you're capable of, right? And so sometimes you know that there's more that you could--that you can pull forth and you're not pulling it forth, and so you kind of have to find time to just, like, "Oh, I got to break up with this part." Like, when I lack discipline, when I don't want to wake up, when I want to be a little lazy, like, "No, get up. You have to do this," because, like, there's a better you that's out there, and the world is gonna miss out on that person if you don't--you know, don't get out of your own way basically.Ade: Right. Yeah, that was amazing to hear, and I'm probably gonna right down "break up with yourself" on some Post-it notes and put them in my workspace. For one, it's important to know that you're not the only one having certain experiences, right? So when you said that there are things that have served you in the past that no longer apply or no longer fit into this new world you're in, I can't tell you how hard I relate to that, and even further, that there are people overcoming those circumstances, you know, that that path has been walked before, is good to know, good to hear, and very, very useful. Well, I want to thank you so much, Dr. Brown, for joining us, for spending time with us today and for sharing your wisdom. It's been helpful in a ton of ways, and I just wanted to know if you have any Favorite Things or any shout-outs, anything that you'd like to share with our listeners before we go.Rosche: I don't know. Just continue--I often say, like, you know, "Don't be ordinary when you can throw some extra on it," you know? Ade: That is so cool. I love that.Rosche: So I'm all about "throw some extra on it," so what is that little extra that you need to do? I have no idea what I'm gonna be talking about specifically during the CBE Week, so maybe some of these same concepts might come up again. Don't be mad at me. You might need it again though at that point, but just I'm all like--we always have to do a little extra, so go ahead and put some extra out there and be, like, the best you that you were designed and destined to be.Ade: That's awesome, thank you. All right, that does it for us. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast, everybody. Do make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, on Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, please make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Ade, and you've been listening to Dr. Brown. Peace.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with the founder and CEO of GIRL STEM STARS Kiwoba Allaire. Kiwoba sits down with us to discuss her exciting non-profit and its commitment to advancing young girls of color in STEM. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement.Donate to GIRL STEM STARS today! http://www.girlstemstars.org/donate-todayFind out more about CBE/CBE Week! https://www.cbeweek.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and listen, y'all. Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing a Special Speaker series to promote CBE Week, an annual week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we will spotlight movers and shakers and leaders who will be speakers during CBE Week, and today, we have Kiwoba Allaire.Kiwoba: Hi, everyone.Zach: Kiwoba Allaire is the founder and CEO of GIRL STEM STARS and an executive business partner at Google. She is inspired and dedicated to helping young girls build successful futures in the tech industry. Kiwoba sits on local non-profit boards for the United Way, the Sheriff's Activities League, The Family Network, and Ronnie Lott's All Stars Helping Kids. Among her many accolades, Allaire was named one of the top 50 mufti-cultural leaders in technology by the Coalition Diversity Council, Women Worth Watching by Profiles in Diversity Journal, recipient of the Sistahs Rock Beyond the Limits Award, San Francisco Business Times’ Most Influential Woman, Forever Influential Woman, and Silicon Valley Business Times’ Most Influential Woman. Now, listen, y'all. We typically have air horns. We're gonna drop the air horns right here. She got all the badges. She's certified, y'all. She is here. Welcome to the show, Kiwoba. How are you doing?Kiwoba: Fantastic. Glad that the fires have subsided. God sent some rain, and we have blue skies. It's nice to be in California today, to say the least, you know?Zach: Absolutely. Well, no, definitely happy that you are--you and yours are safe and sound. So I know I gave our audience your profile in our intro, but do you have anything else you'd like for us to know about you?Kiwoba: I'm from San Francisco, born and raised, and I'm married. I have a wonderful husband named Patrick, and I have a little boy who's turning 5 next month, Christophe, and they are the love of my life. I have a, you know, great family. I'm blessed to be alive, you know? You'll know why when I say it--when I tell you later, but I am very grateful to be healthy and alive.Zach: Absolutely. You know, what do you--you know, we're gonna talk about Girl STEM Stars today and your background at Google and the work that you've done within your organization as well as your job and your career. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to STEM?Kiwoba: I would say that there's no room for creativity in the STEM fields. There are creative STEM careers, such as working in virtual reality, Pixar, making movies, or music data journalists or NASA, Spotify, Electronic Arts. There are even fun activities that I like to do myself, which is, like, paragliding and scuba diving. When I'm flying in the air with my husband, there's a lot of STEM. Scuba diving? There's a lot of STEM on my back, keeping me alive under 100 feet of water, underwater, and I generally don't see people that look like myself doing any of these activities, you know? It's the same with, like, golf. I mean, look, there's only one--we have one really highlighted person of color, black man, playing golf, and there's a lot of STEM when it comes to golf when you think about it. You know, just--there's a lot of fun activities that I just don't see people that look like myself doing, and I like to highlight that to the girls at GIRL STEM STARS.Zach: No, that's so true, and I will say that for me, as someone who doesn't really have a STEM background, it is easy to think about STEM and say, "Okay, well, it's just Xs and Os, 1s and 0s." Very binary, right? Kiwoba: It's everything we do.Zach: Right.Kiwoba: Yeah, it's everything we do. Zach: Absolutely, and when you talk about it--even, you know, in just, like, makeup. Makeup. You need deodorant, and I'm just looking--and the reason I said makeup, I'm looking--I'm in my bedroom right now, and I'm looking at my wife's nightstand, and I see deodorant--and I see deodorant on my--you know, just cologne. You know, print design. Just all types of things that it's integral to. So what impact, to your point around not seeing a lot of us in the spaces that you engage for--that you engage recreationally, what impact do you believe you are making when black and brown girls see a black woman featured so prominently in STEM, in the STEM field?Kiwoba: Huge impact. You know, I've been on both sides of it. You know, when I worked at an AI--artificial intelligence--company, tech company, called Rocket Fuel, I was the director of global giving, so we wrote a lot of checks, but I--like, thinking, you know, we need to do more than just write checks to charities. We need to actually--me, as the only black woman at the company at the time, I need to be able to lift girls up, not just give hand-outs. So in the position that I was in there, you know, I was the only black female executive, and I had the opportunity to bring children to our campus. Gorgeous campus, you know? It had a big gym and Olympic swim pool, rock climbing wall, the whole nine yards, and a cafeteria. Great lawns. And the kids would come and they're like, "Wow. What do I have to learn to work in a place like this?" Or when I bring them to NASA. Because of, you know, my position in the community, I have people that reach out to me from NASA, from, you know, Google in the past, and Microsoft, Yahoo. They reach out to me and say, "Hey, we want your girls to come." We bring them--we've had a relationship with NASA for the last five years, and some of the parents and the mothers will come as chaperones, and they start to cry. They're like, "Oh, my God. I didn't know anything like this existed." So being able to be in a position to lift girls up into what it looks like to work at a STEM--at a tech company, it blows their minds. Literally. I could imagine--I remember when we took them to Yahoo, and I had a bus to pick them up. Took them out to--I wanted to kind of give them a cultural experience. I took them out to dim sum. They loved it. And, you know, keep in mind, these girls are coming from either homeless shelters or they're coming from deep, deep in the unrepresented communities where, you know, some of the girls are--they live in a flat, an apartment, with 10 other people, and one bathroom, one bedroom, you know? Some of the girls are from very violent neighborhoods, right? So for them--you know, some of the parents are incarcerated. I remember one of the girls who was on the bus got a call from her father, who was in jail, in prison. So just getting them out of their community, one, giving them a good meal, and then I've got them now, or--[inaudible] I've got their attention, and then, you know, to step foot onto, like, the Yahoo campus. They literally all went, "*gasps*". Like, "This must be what Disney Land must look like." I'm like, "Yeah. Yeah, it is," you know? And then they're like, "Ooh, look, there's some cute Asian boys over there." [inaudible]. And, you know, they come inside to the lobby and they see all the gadgets, and they're given gift bags and t-shirts, and they're like, "Okay, I'll make sure to give this t-shirt back at the end of the day." I'm like, "No, sweetie. That's for you." They're like, "*gasps* This new t-shirt is for me?" 'Cause some of these girls haven't had a new piece of anything all of their lives, right? And then when we get the ERGs, which is--Zach: Employee resource groups?Zach: Employee resource groups, exactly. When we get, like, the black networks and, you know, all the females--the female engineers coming, or I have--when we're at NASA, I have the black female rocket scientists come and speak to them. They're just like, "*gasps* Oh, my God." You know? When we're on the bus, I'll ask them "What do you want to be like when you grow up," you know? And they're like, "Ooh, I want to be like Beyonce," or I want to be, you know, "a dancer in a video," and at the end of the day they'll be like, "Ooh, I want to be like that pretty black rocket scientist. I want to be like her." I've had congresswoman Jackie Speier come, and I think that's actually one of your questions, so I'll go ahead and let you ask it.Zach: [laughs] Well, first of all, this is great, and we don't have to have--we can freestyle it too, but this is good. I'm curious, really kind of talking about the program a little bit more, can you give us the origin story? Like, what was the motivation behind it? And where in you building GIRL STEM STARS did you realize how big of an impact it was making?Kiwoba: Okay, so I'll start with the first question. And, you know, I'm Christian, so it's okay, right?Zach: Absolutely, yeah. Go ahead.Kiwoba: Okay, great. Okay. So I--GIRL STEM STARS was born very organically. So I had to have an emergency surgery, and after that surgery I was told everything was fine, and two weeks later everything was not. I wound up passed out on my floor in our home, and my husband had to rush me to the emergency room, and all I remember them telling me was that "Call your family," and I'm like, "Why?" And they said, "Call your family, because your white blood cell count is off the charts." I don't remember anything after that but my husband telling me, after it's all said and done, that I had three absesces in my abdomen, and they had to do an emergency surgery to get them out. Supposedly, I woke up after all the surgery. I was in a normal room for two weeks, and I was holding court. I had my computer on my food tray, and I was having people come in from work and working, right? And I guess I was late working. It was, like, 3 in the morning, I was told, and I was talking to a nurse, and the next thing you know, all of my major body functions crashed at the same time. My heart, my liver, my lungs, my kidneys, everything crashed and, you know, they sent the crash cart, and my husband said they called him at 3 o'clock in the morning and said, "We have induced your wife into a coma because she's dying," and I was in a coma for about three--a little more than three weeks, and they figured out finally what was wrong with me. I had--we had some help. God sent--at the last moment, God sent some--all of the chiefs of surgery, the chief of pulmonary, some guy from Stanford, and then they finally figured out what was going on, and I was septic, and they had, like--had me on, like 10 IVs, and I was all, you know, needles everywhere, hoses and wires. So when I came out of it, my aunt--I was in ICU for over a month. When I finally got home, I couldn't walk. I had lost 50 pounds of body mass, and I'm a thin woman, so I couldn't afford to lose it. So I couldn't walk. Everybody carried me up three flights of stairs in our home and put me into bed, and my aunt came and visited me, and she's my prayer warrior. She's amazing, Auntie [inaudible], and she said, "Honey, you know that God sent his [inaudible] angels to save you, to keep you," 'cause my doctor said that I nearly died. I was 5 minutes from death three times. She says, you know, "That is God working hard. Those angels are--they're warring over you," and she said, "The devil tried to take you out, but I'm telling you right now that you were saved not to go back and work at that tech company--yes, you know, do your job, but you were saved for a greater purpose than just working at a tech company. You need to think and pray about what that greater purpose is, because you have a greater purpose on this earth." And I said okay, and I believed her, you know, after, you know, my cardiologist. The fact that I had a cardiologist was crazy because, you know, I was, like, a gym rat. I had a trainer. I was all [inaudible] up, you know, and, you know, for my cardiologist--she was an Asian lady that stood halfway up me, right? And she's screaming at me like, "You must take your medicine! Do you realize you were 5 minutes from death three times?" I'm like, "Okay, I guess I'll take the heart pills."Zach: Oh, my goodness gracious.Kiwoba: So yeah. I was intubated. You know, they had a tube down my throat for breathing and all of that. I was out out. So when I was home, you know, I was home for about three months, and I thought about, you know, "What is this greater purpose that I would--that I was saved for?" And I started to think about what bugs me the most, and then I realized, you know, I used to complain to HR and recruiting, "Please start hiring people that look like me. Stop hiring people that look like you." And, you know, being the only black woman there, I mean, it started to get kind of creepy, you know? I'm married to a Frenchman, a Caucasian guy, and, you know, if I didn't go to--if I didn't go to church or my parents' house, I didn't see anybody that looked like myself then, you know? Our [cert?] wasn't around then, you know? We live in--we live in an Asian neighborhood, so it's like, you know, "When do I get to see anyone that looks like me?" Right?Zach: Sure, yeah.Kiwoba: So then I realized, "Hey, instead of complaining about the situation, be the change you want to see," and I picked up the phone from my recovery bed and called LegalZoom and said, "I want to start a non-profit that advances girls of color in STEM," and--at first I said black girls, but then I--like, let's be a little more inclusive. Girls of color from underrepresented communities, and that's how GIRL STEM STARS was born, you know? It took me nearly dying to realize I had a greater purpose in me, and that greater purpose was to have an impact on the young girls in my community, and--you know, my bigger vision is to take it globally. Zach: So what was the moment, or did you have a specific moment in building GIRL STEM STARS, where you saw the impact and you realized how global and how major this could be?Kiwoba: Yes. When I was at Rocket Fuel, I--you know, the program was growing pretty, pretty big, and I had 100 girls, mostly black girls, but we had, you know, Pan-Pacific girls we had Pan-Asian girls. We also had Latinas and such, and we had a room of 100 girls in the same t-shirt, GIRL STEM STARS t-shirt, and we had little goodie bags, and we fed them breakfast. I had a black female rocket scientist come in and speak to them, and I remember--she's gorgeous. Her name is Aisha, Aisha Bowe, and she's amazing. You should interview her one day, and she said, "How much money do you think I make?" And the girls are like, "I don't know, $5,000?" You know, 'cause [inaudible] where they're coming from, right?Zach: Sure. And they're kids, like, you know? Yeah.Kiwoba: "No, higher. Higher." "10,000?" "No." "50,000?" "No. Higher, higher." She says, "I make over $100,000 a year," and the girls fell out of their chairs. They're like, "*gasps* Whoa. Wow. You must be a millionaire," you know? And I have all of my speakers bring in their pictures from when they were the age of the girls, which is between 8-18, but I prefer pictures, like, from when they're, like, 10 or something in pigtails, you know, doing sports or whatever, and then show them now, like, in different countries and then in their home and whatever, and their families, so they can really relate and--you know, so she'll say, "This was me when I was a little girl in pigtails, and this is me now, standing next to a celebrity," or whatever it is, right? And the girls are just, like, going, "Wow. Wow," you know? And then she talks about the type of work that she does. I had another lady come in and talk about how she's looking for water on Mars, and the girls were like, "Wow." Then I had--you know you've got them hooked, right? And then I had congresswoman Jackie Speier come in, and she is a mature woman, and she's Caucasian, and, you know, they had--you know, she had her security guards and everyone come in, and, you know, we had--I had the girls line up and clap when she came in, and they were mumbling to themselves, "What's this old white lady gonna have to say [inaudible]?"Zach: [laughs] That's so funny because that's so, like, true. That's so black. That's such an honest--[laughs]Kiwoba: And Jackie's my friend, right? And she's spoken for me many times, and I know she heard them, and she's like, "Uh-huh." "Okay." And I know I heard them. So Jackie and I are looking at each other and, you know, we wink at each other. So we get all the girls to sit down, and I don't remember if Jackie showed a picture of herself young. I don't remember, but she started off--and, you know, I introduced her, "Congresswoman Jackie Speier!" And she gets up there and she looks at them and she gets--everyone's quiet. She's quiet. She waits for the moment, and she goes--and she pumps her--she beats her chest, and she goes "I got shot up five times, left for dead overnight, nearly died," and they're like, "Ooh, here she comes. Okay. Okay. Okay." Then she said, "Then I got married, I got pregnant, and my husband got run over by a car on his bicycle at Golden Gate Park," and they were like, "Oh! Oh! Oh!" And they're like, "Okay." She got their attention. They're all at the tip of their chairs. She goes, "Now I'm gonna talk to you about adversity. Now I'm gonna tell you how I need to know STEM to run this constituency. I am a boss," and then she ends it with a picture of her and President Obama. The girls jump out of their chair and they're like, "Oh! Oh, man! Oh, man!" And I'm like, "Oh, my God." I had goosebumps going up my arms, and--so then, you know, at the end of the day--they all had little notebooks, and at the end of the day--and Jackie spoke forever. First, you know, her people were telling me, "Okay, you know, she's only got 30 minutes, okay?" "Only 30 minutes [inaudible]," and they were, like, frustrated. They were so frustrated. They were all spinning around in the hallway going, "What are we gonna do? [inaudible]." She was in her moment. She was in her element, right? So at the end I said, "Okay, now you told me what you want to be when you grow up. You wanted to be like Beyonce. You wanted to be, you know, a veterinarian so you can play with puppies, or you wanted to be a dancer in a music video. Now what do you want to be?" They're like, "I want to be like that badass congresswoman. Can I get her autograph?" They all run up, and they get in line to get an autograph from the badass congresswoman and take pictures with her and do selfies with her. We have just created a new STEM hero and icon in their lives. That's when I knew we were making an impact.Zach: So of course all of this is amazing, and really--in alignment with the story you just shared as well as when I'm looking at your content on your website--what I'm noticing, and what I'm really excited about, when I look at GIRL STEM STARS is that there is a clear effort and intention around making STEM practical and available for the girls that you're trying to reach, and I think for me coming up, when I thought about STEM, I would think about being, like, a scientist, or being some type of engineer. For me, those things were, like, as far away as being, like, an astronaut. Right? I was like, "Okay, how do I even do that?" When I would think about some of the math and things behind, it just seemed so far away, and I think, again, one thing kind of talking about the program, you all, you have these camps that I believe, again, kind of bring STEM to life and kind of bring it up close for the girls, and so I'm curious, do you have a favorite camp? Do any kind of stick out to you or anything of that nature?Kiwoba: Yes, NASA. NASA is one of the most mind-blowing camps that we have. The parents, you know, they fight to get on that list. We've been doing STEM camps with NASA for the last five years, and we're grateful to be invited every year, and we will get a busload of girls, 50 girls, every year. They're all from underrepresented communities, and some of the mothers to chaperone, and when we roll into NASA, we stop at the big front gate, and one of the engineers will get on, the one that invites us every year. He will give us a driving tour of NASA, and the girls are just--their faces and noses are pressed to the windows going, "Wow. Wow. This looks like a movie set, like a sci-fi movie," you know? They're all just blown away, and some of the--like, the mothers crying going, "I never knew anything like this even existed in the Bay Area." And then we will go to a big conference area, and we will meet the interns, the summer interns, and we usually have our teenagers do this camp, and it's all day from 7:30 in the morning until about 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon.Zach: Wow.Kiwoba: Yeah, and at first, you know, they're on the bus, and they're all tired, and I ask the same question: "What do you want to be when you grow up?" I tell you, Beyonce is famous. I mean, they always say Beyonce.Zach: She is beloved though, yeah.Kiwoba: I'm waiting to hear, like, Nicki Minaj. I don't know.Zach: Oh, no, no. I think Beyonce has--she has Nicki beat by a good mile or so.Kiwoba: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] So anyway, that's what they're saying on the bus, and I've got video of it too, you know? So when we get there, they all get into the conference room, we feed them breakfast, and they're--you know, they're tired. They're not used to being, you know, up that early in the morning, especially when they do these on Saturdays, you know? And I tell them, you know, you should congratulate yourselves, 'cause, you know, you're investing in your future, you know? You could be home like the other kids, watching cartoons and eating cereal, you know? You're here, you know, investing your future. And your parents, you know, thank you. And then a beautiful black woman with braids down her back comes in with a NASA jacket on, and they're all like, "Ooh." "She's pretty," you know? And she'll say, you know, "Hi, I'm Dr. Wendy, and I am a rocket scientist here at NASA," and they're like, "Ooh!" They're like, "Okay," and then the interns are all in their teens. They're, like, 16, 17, 18 years old, so the teenagers are seeing--will go from station to station. We probably hit by five different departments in NASA, and we also do breakout sessions, and we also [inaudible], and there was an engineer, a rocket scientist, that would take us--give us a tour, and we'd go around to these different locations. One could be drone testing. Another is a simulated space ship, where we can actually go in and see what it looks like to live in a space ship and touch things and hear what the interns are doing. They're creating little robots that fly in the air and bring tools to the astronauts. I mean, wow. Just amazing stuff, right? And there's other kids that are, you know, also working with rocket scientists to find water on Mars. That's a really big thing right now. Then we'll have a big--they host a big lunch, a big barbecue lunch, with a DJ, and the girls get out, and they dance, and they get--the black engineer group at NASA will come, and they'll dance with them, and they'll get to talk and get mentored by the black females at NASA, and at the end of the day of course, after Dr. Wendy will speak to us again and show videos, I'll say, "Okay, what do you want to be like when you grow up?" "I want to be like Dr. Wendy! I want to be like those other black women we were dancing with!" So I want them to have a real experience with these black female engineers and rocket scientists where they eat with them, they eat at NASA, they dance with people, they get to hear what they do, the type of work that they do, how they got to work they got to. So they're completely immersed in the environment, and, you know, it's like, "I did NASA." It's, like, you know, a major field trip to another country, to another world, really. Another world, because, you know, from their little perspective where they're coming from--some of these girls, like I mentioned before, you know, a flat or a homeless shelter--a flat with 10 people or a homeless shelter. This is--this is mind-blowing, and you see their little minds just go pop, and I'm like, "Yes, we got them." [laughs] Yeah, it's cool. It's really cool.Zach: It's easy to underestimate the value or the impact that that--outside looking in, what that has on a child. I remember for me, STEM wasn't really my background, Kiwoba, but it was music, and so for me, in middle school and high school, you know, I was one of the--one of the better players in Dallas, and I actually played in the Greater Dallas Youth Orchestra, and I was--Kiwoba: Very cool.Zach: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I was able to play with the orchestra. I was able to play at the [Meyerson?], which is, like, this big concert hall in Dallas, and it was great, and so--Kiwoba: That changes your world, right? That changes your whole world.Zach: Yeah. It changes your entire world, and then even like, you know, when I did some volunteer work where you have underrepresented kids come in who are--who come from poor backgrounds and they get to see your workplace, and they view the work site, and they see you. You know, they see somebody like me. I'm a young, black man, and I tell them I'm a manager or, you know, I just did this, that, and the third, and I travel every week. Just them seeing me and them asking, "So wait, you do this? You travel?" And it just blows--it changes their entire perspective, so that's incredible.Kiwoba: Yeah. I do the same thing. I bring the girls by my desk, you know, like at Google or, you know, wherever I was, at Rocket Fuel. I would give them a whole tour of the whole building, and they're looking around, and, like, "There's where the engineers work. See, there's accounting," and one of my friends--they hired another black woman, who was the head of accounting, and she'd come out in all her glory--you know, she wore beautiful clothes. She was stunning--she still is--and she's like, "So I'm the accounting part of this tech company," and, you know, "You have to know math to be able to be in accounting, but this is another way to get into a tech company," is through accounting. Then I would introduce them to the--you know, the head of marketing, who happened to be a female as well. Not of color. And the head of legal was female as well. The head of HR was female. So I would have them--we would go by each of their offices in their departments. She's like, "I'm the boss of this whole department." They're like, "*gasps* Wow." They can see the different departments in a tech company, right? So they meet, you know, everybody. The engineers, everyone. So that also allows them to see the different avenues into tech companies or into tech in general.Zach: You're right. Like, I think it is really is, when you think about STEM or when you hear the word STEM, rather, it's easy to go to, like, some scientist with a white lab coat and their sleeves rolled up, and they're, you know, pouring mixtures back and forth, and again, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's much more far-reaching than that. Kind of going back to the top of our discussion, STEM is in every single thing we do. There's some version--there's some version in STEM in literally every single thing that we touch or interact with or think about, and I think to your point around having them see the various avenues of how it all intersects is really important. So where can people learn more about GIRL STEM STARS? And how can they support? Like, what are the various avenues and options they have to actually support your organization?Kiwoba: So they can go to GIRLSTEMSTARS.org. That is, you know, where the Donate button is. We really need donations because these camps are not cheap, you know? And I don't charge. I don't charge the parents at all. I've had parents from Google and, you know, from different tech companies try and have their kids come to my camp, to pay. They're like, "I'll pay you $300," you know, "for my kid to go to your all-day camps," and I'm like, "No." This is for kids that can't afford to go to fancy camps, right? Their parents can't afford to. So we want to continue to make the camps free for the girls, you know? That means paying for buses and food and all of that. T-shirts, you know? All day to keep a child all day long, you know? So donations are definitely how people can help. Please, please. Give monthly. A monthly donation has more impact than a one-time donation, but that's most definitely what we need to do.Zach: Well, so first of all, I don't want to--and I don't want to zoom past that part, because there's so many opportunities and things out there, but they're limited by economic barriers, right? Like, the fact that you're able to offer these programs for free. Not for a reduced cost, not for a discount, but for free to these families is so important, and it's one less excuse, you know? And it's a big deal when a parent gives up their child for a day, even if they're chaperoning them, to follow them--to allow them to go off from their direct care, and then to do that and then to ask them to give up something monetarily in a situation where they may not--they may not have the means to do so. So that's beautiful that you're able to do that, and we'll make sure to have the donation link in the show notes, and we'll direct folks to donate there. Now, this has been a great discussion, but before we go, I feel as if--I feel as if you have some more wisdom and some more jewels to share, so I'd like to ask if you have any parting words or shout-outs before we wrap up here.Kiwoba: I would say, you know, thank you, God, for saving my life, so that I can have this impact on girls around the world. Also, keep in mind that I'm trying to--GIRL STEM STARS isn't about getting girls just into tech companies, but we're also--you know, this is why our girls are from 8-18. We're also creating the future board members, the future decision-makers, the future entrepreneurs of the world, you know? And that--you know, we want to have our girls be in those higher seats that are making the decisions about the world, about, you know, starting their own tech companies maybe. Starting whatever. Being entrepreneurs, right? And we're trying to give them that entrepreneurial mindset that you are in control, you know? That these kids, they can make a decision to say, "Okay, I can watch cartoons in the morning, or I can go to a GIRL STEM STARS camp at NASA," right? So giving them the opportunity, picking them up with a bus, feeding them, doing this all day long with them, it literally changes their whole world. I've had parents constantly sending me emails going that one trip changed their whole daughter's perspective on life, and she's starting--you know, her grades are better. She knows that--she knows what she sees, you know? 'Cause we--a lot of the girls are regulars. Sometimes, you know, they're different, but for the most part, you know, when these girls to go to all of these different events, you know, Makers Faire, and to city hall, and be treated like absolute ladies, you know? We treat them like gold. We roll out the red carpet for them. That day will never--it will never leave them, you know? It changes their whole life, and we know that we've changed them in that one day and that they're looking for--they've seen and experienced a better future for themselves. Zach: Absolutely, and often it just needs that--takes that one spark to set off a whole new set of dreams, so that's incredible.Kiwoba: Exactly.Zach: Well, awesome. Look, that does it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. Remember, this is a special series brought to you by the Coalition of Black Excellence. To learn more about the Coalition of Black Excellence and their CBE Week, look them up at CBEWeek.com. If you have a question that you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach. You've been listening to Kiwoba Allaire, founder and CEO of GIRL STEM STARS. Peace, y'all.Kiwoba: Goodbye. God bless you all.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with the founder and CEO of I Love Being Black and Traveling Black, Kumi Rauf. Kumi sits down with us to talk about both of his companies and their collective vision of documenting black life and positivity. We also promote CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lovebeingblack/https://www.instagram.com/trvlblk/Twitter: https://twitter.com/ilovebeingblackhttps://twitter.com/TRVLBLKFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lovebeingblack/https://www.facebook.com/TRVLBLK/Find out more about CBE/CBE Week here: https://www.cbeweek.com/Kumi’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kumirauf/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and listen up. Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing a Speaker series to promote CBE Week, an annual week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we spotlight movers and shakers who will be also speaking during CBE Week. Today, we are blessed to have Kumi Rauf. Kumi Rauf is an award-winning businessman with several recognitions under his belt, including being an officer and chair of the National Society of Black Engineers, a recipient of the Urban League Top 40 Under 40 Award, awarded Most Successful App Developer by Novacoast, and collegiate track and field athlete, so he dippin' on y'all. He has shared his knowledge and experience with a diverse mix of audiences via radio appearances, one-on-one seminars, conferences, television, and more. Welcome to the show, Kumi. How are you doing, sir?Kumi: Ah, man, I'm doing great. Thank you for that intro. I think I couldn't have done it better myself. Zach: Well, look, I find that--I find that hard to believe, but I'm also flattered, so thank you very much. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit more about yourself?Kumi: No, I think that was a good summation. My name is Kumi Rauf. I founded the I Love Being Black movement, which I'm sure we're gonna get into in a second, and, you know, everything I do is sort of centered around black positivity. Zach: That's awesome, man. So yeah, let's definitely get into it. So let's talk about I Love Being Black. What was the motivation behind founding that company, and what's your mission with it?Kumi: Okay, okay. So the motivation--I went to school, to college, at a place called the University of California Santa Barbara. They had about 2.7% black people there, and, you know, things would always happen. Like, there were racist occurrences that would happen on campus. Off-campus they had, like, Dress Up Like A Minority parties, things like that. So, you know what, I need to make a statement, and I need to do it in a way that's not tearing down someone else's community but lifting ours up, because what I realized is that I don't think the answer is trying to fix someone else, trying to fix someone else's community. I think the answer is in fixing ourselves and in building ourselves up. So the mission for I Love Being Black is positivity, awareness, and action amongst black people worldwide.Zach: Man, that's beautiful. And it's funny--so you said dress like a minority? So just like in that movie--hold on, don't tell me. It's the movie--Dear White People. Like that movie.Kumi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Zach: That's crazy, and the funny thing is in that movie, at the end, they show pictures of those real parties, and I don't know if UC Santa Barbara was in there, but they showed a lot of pictures. I know they showed SMU and some other colleges that do those. Man, that's crazy. It sounds as if I Love Being Black is all about, like, pouring back into self, self-reliance, and self-affirmation. That's awesome. So somehow, in spite of all of the work that you've been doing with I Love Being Black, you've also founded and you lead Traveling Black. So talk to us about that company and the inspiration behind that one.Kumi: Yeah, yeah. I mean, with I Love Being Black--so it started with just t-shirts, and that, you know, spun into a huge social media enterprise on Facebook. I Love Being Black--we have about 6 million fans on Facebook, I think 140,000 on Instagram, and so we started traveling to a bunch of different places around the world because, you know, most black people don't live in the U.S. They live outside the U.S. So we started, you know, going through the continent, going to Columbia, going to Brazil. Like, you know, even London and Paris and all kinds of other places like that, doing photoshoots and just kind of documenting black life and positivity in these different places, and, you know, we kept hearing, "Hey, you know, I see all these pictures on Facebook and all that, but, like, how can I go with you guys? Because my friends keep flaking. Each time I try to leave the country, X, Y, and Z." So we said, "You know what? Let's do a pilot trip," and we did a trip to Cartagena, Colombia, and just--you know, just to see if I can actually plan travel for people that are outside of my immediate organization, and it worked, you know? It worked out really well, and we kind of kicked it off from there. We did South Africa next, and then we did Cuba, and we just got back from Ghana.Zach: So that's incredible, man, and it's--to your point about most black people not even living in the U.S., you know, let me tell you a story about me being black and traveling while black. My wife and I celebrated our five-year anniversary. We went to Belize this past May, right?Kumi: Okay. Congratulations, brother.Zach: Thank you very much, man. So we go to Belize, and, you know, I'm ignorant. Genuinely, like, there's plenty of stuff I don't know, but when I go to Belize I was so taken aback at just how, like, everybody there was black, right?Kumi: Yeah.Zach: And they look like--they look like black Americans. Like, they don't--you know what I'm saying? But, you know, if you look at, like, the mainstream media, or you look at whatever, you just don't--you don't see us being portrayed front and center like that, and it was amazing to see, like, us being in a position of being, like, the majority. Like, that was crazy to me. A beautiful experience. It was just crazy, and it was--the other thing that was funny about my time when we were in Belize, we saw some other black folks, some of them who were also from my city, Houston, and just from D.C. and California, and we all just linked up, and it was like a family reunion. Like, we got out there, we having a good time, we're traveling, we're doing our thing, and so I guess--and so I guess my question is, you know, how does traveling black encourage exploration and adventure? And I say that because even just in--'cause I haven't been out of the country many times, but any time I go and I see more people that look like me, it just changes the entire dynamic. It feels--it feels different, and so I imagine Traveling Black kind of has a similar vibe. I'm curious, like, how do you all achieve that, and how do you all facilitate and drive that?Kumi: That's a good question, that's a good question. So what we do is typically we want to bring our money that we have over here and put it in the hands of someone else that looks like you somewhere else. So it doesn't make any sense to me to go to, like, a South Africa and do, like, a safari with somebody that's not black and I'm in Africa. That doesn't make any sense, but you're kind of assuming that you're gonna find all of these black people and all kinds of tourism efforts and stuff like that, but you don't, especially in places like South Africa, you know, Brazil, things like that. You have other people sort of telling your story. So I think that's really important to kind of annotate, because a lot of people in this tourism space, even in the black tourism space, they don't do that. You know? They just--you know, "Whoever shows up from the tourism office, or "These people that we contracted to do this thing is who we're gonna give money to," and I'm like, "That doesn't make any sense if over here we're preaching, you know, spend money with black people and black dollars, black hands type of thing, and then when we go abroad we don't, you know, embody that same thing." So that's something we really, really try to make sure that we do. So our guides are black, drivers are black, photographers, everybody. So I say all that to say this experience that we try to create and curate for people around the world, we try to make sure it's authentic, number one. Number two, we want you to learn a bunch of stuff, but number three, we want you to kick it and have fun too. It isn't just like, you know, open up a history book and, "Okay, on your left you see this, and this date and this time," and all that. Nah, we want to--we want to drink some rum and dive in the ocean and, you know what I'm saying, learn how to do the dances and all of this other stuff. We want to learn all of that stuff. Yeah, and then be safe obviously as well.Zach: Of course. There's a certain level of intentionality that you have to have in terms of driving and centering black identity and black experience, like, regardless of where you are, and so I would never--I didn't even think about that, about the fact that, you know, other people telling your story, even if you're in majority-black spaces, and how--but I can say that, man, when we have people that look like us and who share the same--who are part of the same diaspora involved in that, man, like, the experience is way different. There's just a certain level of community and familiarity and just touch, personal connection that is not there otherwise, and so that's incredible.Kumi: Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, there's this whole idea that, like, Africans don't like African-Americans, and I'm like--you know, I don't know where that started from or who started it and all of that, but I know that I've been to 12 different African countries, and I'm considered family in half of those, and people love me and love us in all of those. You know? They're waiting for us to come back and just go there--don't bring the negative aspects of being from the U.S., you know? Don't bring all that stuff with you. You know, all the ignorance and stuff that we may not even know that we embody. Don't bring all of that stuff, and try to have an open mind. You know, try the foods. Learn something about the language. Be genuinely interested about those people, and they're gonna welcome you with open arms every time.Zach: I 100% believe that. I do think it's easy for us to kind of, like, get in our cynical bag, right? And then, like, make assumptions based off of just stereotypes and things that we've seen, and I also think, man, you know, just as a side note, I do think sometimes, man, like, Fake Woke Twitter be messing us up. Like, we end up kind of being a little too negative. It's like, "Let's just give it a try first." 'Cause when I went out to Belize, it was love everywhere I went. I had a phenomenal time. Like, everything [inaudible] was great, right? And I've heard amazing stories from people who also--they'll travel to South Africa, they'll travel to Zambia, they'll travel to Nigeria and Cambodia. Like, they'll travel various places and see us, right? And have a wonderful time. I think that--so that's a great point. So let me ask you this. Where can people learn more about I Love Being Black and Traveling Black?Kumi: Okay. Definitely you can, you know, touch base with our Facebook page for I Love Being Black or Instagram page for I Love Being Black. Just look up--the short tag is just LoveBeingBlack, no spaces. Just @LoveBeingBlack, and same thing with Traveling Black, and then the short tag is @TRVLBLK. So that's TRVLBLK for Traveling Black, and, you know, we try to post up pictures, and we definitely want to inspire people, you know? Just get that sense of wanderlust, but we want to go deeper than that obviously, and we want to take it into those black spaces and these stories that haven't really been told, and, you know, a lot of times there's more we need to unlearn then there is we need to learn, you know? Because if you don't unlearn these certain things, you know, these things that you may not even know--these stereotypes that you have, X, Y, and Z, you're not gonna be able to learn the correct thing in the future. Zach: Nah, that's so true, and it's interesting because of just the way that American society works. A lot of the things that we need to learn anew we won't really fully grasp unless we go and experience it for ourselves, you know what I mean?Kumi: Yeah.Zach: So that's incredible. Well, look, we're gonna make sure that we have all of your--we'll make sure we have all of the information on Traveling Black and I Love Being Black in the show notes, so for everyone listening, make sure you click--you click those links in the show notes to learn more about that. Where can people learn more about what's happening in 2019? Or rather let me ask you this way - what do you have planned in 2019? What's on the horizon? What are you excited about? What are you excited for folks to see, and what are you excited to share? Kumi: We have lists of--we have a great list of trips that we're gonna run down for 2019. Let me--first, in a month we're going to South Africa. We're gonna be there during the Afropunk Festival [inaudible]. So we're doing Johannesberg, Cape Town. Just gonna have a real good time. South Africa is, like, very near and dear to my heart. If I leave--I live in Oakland, California right now. If I leave Oakland, I'm most likely gonna live in Johannesberg. So we're doing that, and then I think three days after I get home we're going to Cuba, on the Experience Cuba trip, in January, wrapped around the Havana jazz festival. We always try to wrap our trips around some sort of event or festival that's, like, a cultural aspect of wherever we are. So let me see. We're going back to South Africa for the Jazz fest in Cape Town in March, and then I think the trip that I'm most excited about for next year is Ghana, because the president of Ghana dedicated 2019 as the year for the diaspora to come back home, and that's huge. Literally the president.Zach: That's crazy. That's crazy.Kumi: Yeah. Yeah, right? I mean, he's like, "Look, this is the year y'all need to come back home." You know, it doesn't have to be come back home to live and blah blah blah, but that is an option, and once you get there and you look at things and you're like, "Oh, wait a minute," and you sort of realize in your head, "This is an option." I've been to Ghana a few times, and each time I see a different opportunity. I'm like, "All right, so not just on cultural level, but for business, you know?" For setting up shop here. For doing something. For leaving your mark in other kinds of ways. So yeah, we're extremely excited about that trip. That's in August, and then we may introduce a new trip next year to Brazil in November. November is Black Consciousness Month in Brazil. They don't do Black History Month. They do Black Consciousness during the whole month of November, and then the day of Black Consciousness is November 20th. There was this really important figure in their history named Zumbi dos Palmares. He basically was like their MLK in terms of popularity, not in terms of what he did. You know, he was a freedom fighter. He helped a lot of people escape slavery into what they called quilombos, runaway enslaved encampments for free Africans. And, you know, he was caught, and he was killed, but they celebrate that on that day, November 20th, and there's a huge parade, and it's all cultural, and there's drumming and music and speeches and Portuguese, and, oh, man, it's amazing.Zach: Wow, that sounds incredible. So I'm gonna definitely, again, make sure to encourage our listeners to check the show notes so you can stay up to date with Traveling While Black--Traveling Black, excuse me, and I Love Being Black. Like, this is amazing. So before we let you go, any parting thoughts, final words, or shout outs?Kumi: Yeah. I will say that--I think most of what we need to do is just a mental shift. Once we shift mentally, everything else sort of--it doesn't automatically fall in line but, you know, it's a lot easier to be attained, right? So if we stop thinking of Africa as one place, that's a mental shift, right? That's a mental shift, because Africa is not one place. It's 54 different places, you know? It's the continent with the most amount of countries in the world, you know what I'm saying? And they have, you know, thousands of languages and customs and all kinds of different stuff. It snows in certain places. It's hot in other places. You'll have greenery in certain places, and there's--you know, there's a desert in other places. It's got every single climate, and, you know, a vast amount of diversity in the types of people and the things that you're gonna find there. If we start thinking of the different places in Africa like that, I think it's gonna open up a lot of different options. If you want to go on some luxury trip or something like that, they have all that, you know? Go to Zanzibar, you know what I mean? The richest square mile in Africa is Sandton, in Johannesberg, right outside of Johannesberg, you know what I mean? So if you want to do that you can. If you want to go on a backpacker thing and save money, you can do that too, you know? So don't only think of Africa as like, "Oh, we need to go on some sort of missionary trip," or, you know, bring some toilet paper to donate to people and this, this, and that. They're doing a bunch of amazing things. They're on blockchain technology. I'm on a team out of Rwanda that's leading the charge called Africa Gen, you know? So they're doing a bunch of stuff, even some stuff that we're not doing. Sometimes I find technologies over that we don't even have here, and I'm like, "Yo." We just need to learn more about each other and just open up that line of communication, you know?Zach: Man, absolutely. Again, what I'm hearing more and more is just go. Experience. Like, that's what I'm hearing. Well, look, this was awesome. Well, look, that does it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast, a special series sponsored by the Coalition of Black Excellence. To learn more about CBE, check out their website - www.cbeweek.com. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, and make sure to follow CBE on Instagram at ExperienceCBE. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you have been listening to Kumi Rauf, CEO and founder of Traveling Black and I Love Being Black. Peace.Kumi: Peace, y'all.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. we have the pleasure of sitting down with the woman herself, Angela Johnson, to discuss CBE and its vision to unify and elevate the black community.Find out more about CBE/CBE Week here: https://www.cbeweek.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/experiencecbe/Twitter: https://twitter.com/experiencecbeFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/experienceCBE/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/coalitionofblackexcellence/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and listen, y'all. Living Corporate is partnering with the Coalition of Black Excellence, a non-profit organization based in California, in bringing in a Special Speaker series to promote CBE Week, an annual, week-long event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement that will positively transform the black community. This is a special series where we spotlight movers and shakers who will be speakers during CBE Week, and today we have the founder and CEO of the Coalition of Black Excellence, Angela Johnson. Angela, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.Angela: Good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.Zach: We'll wax a little bit poetic about your organization, its origins, on how we even got connected, because I think all of it comes together and really paints a [picture] into what the Coalition of Black Excellence is all about. Angela: Yeah, absolutely. I love the story of the Coalition of Black Excellence because it is truly a testament of really what happens when individuals work together to uplift the community and use their skills for that purpose. So it kind of all started in 2017 with a desire from a number of employees at different organizations, at black employee resource groups at a number of companies, who really just were looking at their Black History Month planning, and, you know, we have this idea of--it's very simple. What if we work together to sort of amplify our impact and, you know, what can we do to collaborate, to tell a different story that really is uplifting to the black community, highlighting excellence in the black community, and just is something that's really inspirational? So that was sort of the basis of conversation with a number of people, even at Uber Hue, where I work for my day job group, and once we sort of had that idea of--once we had that idea of, you know, "Let's collaborate," it was a really easy conversation to have with other black employee resource groups and diversity and inclusion committees and community organizers across companies in the Bay. So how--after we sort of had this big idea, we were, you know, kind of like, "Okay, well, what does this look like? How does this collaboration come together, and what's the goal?" And so the Week idea really came from--I grew up in the DC area, going to the Congressional Black Caucus and the Legislative Conference in DC, and I was just always inspired by how black professionals across, you know, a number of industries who focus on policy and politics come together to, you know, network, to talk about different ways that they can work together, to address unique issues impacting the black community. So that's where the idea for the Week came from, and, you know, our theory was pretty simple, that if we could kind of concentrate our time to one week, that amplifies the opportunity for us to be in the same room and network and kind of strategize collectively. And then after that it really became a lot of--a lot of people just bringing their expertise and their contributions to the table in different ways, which I think is really where this sort of coalition idea came from. The different companies would basically offer, you know, their expertise or their hosting capabilities or, you know, they had curated an event in a certain area. So some had curated an event in entrepreneurship or [inaudible]. You know, they're willing to open up to the community or open their space up to the community, and so it just became this really beautiful story of sort of everyone coming together to offer their expertise or their talents or their contributions for that week, and then my goal really was just--or my role was really just to kind of organize it all and, you know, ensure that people who had similar ideas worked together. You know, give 'em a day for the week and a time of the week. After the success of this year--so 2018 was our first year. We had 14 events over the course of the week. We did it the last week of February this year as well. Black Joy Parade was another non-profit organization that we got partnered or connected with during sort of our collaboration with a number of companies that was planning a huge parade in Oakland that really was focused on celebrating black culture and black artists, and it was just perfectly aligned to, you know, [ending?] events. You know, all-black companies took the lead of different events that I help facilitate, just their days, but then the Uber Hue team really took charge of the gala. So the gala was on that Saturday of the week, and the goal there was to really, you know, sort of be a more celebratory opportunity for us, to not only celebrate black excellence but to honor trailblazers, and then to give back. So we had six non-profits that we honored as a part of the week, and, you know, we picked a theme. It was non-profits promoting STEM and entrepreneurship in the black community. Once we identified the six non-profits, we featured them as a part of the Week, and then all of the money that we raised as a part of the gala went to those non-profits, because, you know, there was no organization associated with the Coalition of Black Excellence. It was just this conglomerate of black professionals at different companies who were coming together. So we donated all of the money and gave it all away, and then after that it really--just going through all of that process and, you know, figuring out sponsors, and we had a lot of great sponsors contribute to the gala and other events. It made me realize it was really important to formalize the structure to make it easier for people to engage and for us to be able to really, you know, move forth our mission that now is to unify and elevate the black community. So yeah, so it's an exciting path.Zach: It's extremely exciting, and, you know, I'm curious--in season 1 of Living Corporate, there were various guests who may have in their title "black" in some way, and I would always ask them, "Why do you have Black Texas Magazine?" Or "Why do you have Black this or Black that?" So help me understand why it was important for you to call the organization the Coalition of Black Excellence and not just the Coalition of Excellence or the Group of Really Cool People Doing Stuff. Like, what was the--what was the point in specifying or highlighting race within the title of your organization. Angela: Yeah, 'cause I think the--as I mentioned, the [inaudible] aspirations of the group that came together was really planning Black History Month Event, so that was sort of one thing. Like, the group that came together, they were all people who were--in some way, they were personally identified with being a member of the black community or really wanted to address some issue in the black community or highlight something, you know, amazing that's going on in the black community. So all of the people who came together for the founding of the organization were motivated by issues impacting the black community. Me personally, I think for--for me, you know, I identify as a black woman, and, you know, it's a community of people that, you know, I just really want to see come together and work together to amplify, you know, our impact and to address issues that I think are unique to the black community. I mean, it's not that--you know, there are a lot of issues that other communities have as well, but I think that there are some that--sometimes it's helpful to have people who understand some of those issues or have a personal experience that relates to it. And it's a range. It's not necessarily just issues, but just anything impacting the black community. I think sometimes it's helpful to have people who identify with being in that community to be the ones to kind of also help amplify that voice.Zach: What I'm excited about and what I think is important when I look at the Coalition of Black Excellence and I look at the website, I look at the information, I think it highlights the reality that the non-white experience is not monolithic and that the black experience is unique and that it's important, and there's nothing wrong with specifying and really zooming in on black perspectives, black experiences, because the black experience historically is unique, juxtaposed to other non-majority experiences. So that's great. So I'm really excited about the guests that will be a part of the Speaker Series. At a larger level, I'm excited about--of course Living Corporate is just really pumped about being a part of and working with the Coalition of Black Excellence with this. Let me ask you this though - what are you most excited about with CBE Week? Like, you know, what was the first one like? What do you feel like went well there? What are you excited about coming up on this one in 2019?Angela: The thing that I'm excited the most about CBE is I think it's gonna be a great opportunity to really unify black professionals from various backgrounds, generations, from, you know, different industries, and I think--you know, I'm a lawyer. I typically go to a lot of legal conferences for black professionals. I know there's a lot of great black professional conferences for tech, for business, you know, for engineering, for a lot of different areas, but what I think is exciting about CBE is that we're really trying to have sort of a really broad outreach in terms of who we want to reach in the black community, and I don't know if there's--I've never been personally been to a lot of spaces where, you know, in one space you can hear from experts in health and well-being and finance and entrepreneurship and tech and life sciences and music and art and entertainment and education in social impact and government and legal, and you can really--really get the spread of issues that are impacting the black community. It really is about, you know, sort of this 360 professional development experience. So that's one thing I'm really excited about, just to see all of that black excellence in the same room across all of these different perspectives. And to your point that you mentioned earlier, you know, there is--there is a lot of diversity within the black community, and so I think it'll be beautiful to see it all in one space, and then to take it to the next level, for us to start figuring out how to develop organic relationships so that we can start to work together to figure out, you know, how we can address some of the issues that we're seeing impacting the black community. So that's really the Thursday thing that I'm excited about. The Friday of the summit, of the two-day summit--which, I should add, is an addition from what we did last year--so the Friday portion is also exciting because that day to me is really about creating sort of an ecosystem of support, and, you know, it's more about, you know, looking--we have a legal pitch day where we have in-house counsel sitting with outside counsel who are African-American or who identify as being in the black community to engage whether or not there's an opportunity to hire those individuals for work, which I think is a lot--is really important to a lot of companies who are interested in improving their supply diversity programs. And then we have a health and well-being fair where it's gonna give an opportunity for black professionals to really hear from black therapists and black doctors. The vendor showcase and career fair, an opportunity for companies to showcase their products and engage with individuals in the black community, as well as recruiting these, you know, excellent black professionals. So it's exciting to see a day that has such a broad reach across different sectors and just will allow people to, you know, experience black excellence in a different kind of way. Zach: That's just so cool, and I think it really reminds me that the way that we typically, or that we're--I think professionally that we're conditioned to think about our jobs and we think about industries, which is often very siloed and sectored and, "Well, I should only talk to people in this space because I'm in this space" or "I should only talk with people in that space 'cause I'm in that space." We as black professionals can't really afford to adopt that mindset because there's not many of us in any of these individual spaces, and so the more we can be collaborative and cross-functional in how we think, how we operate, how we network, the better. And so what you're describing when you're talking about CBE Week, I agree it's extremely exciting, because we're creating bridges, not only from an inter-generational perspective but also from a professional or industry specialization perspective too. So that's really cool, and it really reminds me CBE Week has some major sponsors. And let me just take a step back. So when you and I first met and I told you, "On the LinkedIn profile I got little pocket squares and stuff, but don't let that fool you. I'm very country," and, like, I don't meet and see a lot of black folks, especially on the coast, 'cause I'm from the South, right? To the point we've both been making, the black experience is extremely diverse, and so it was so interesting when I met you and you were like--you worked for Uber then somebody else, then worked for Facebook and, like, Amazon. Like, all these major names, and again, I work for--I'm in a big firm consulting and everything like that so I'm not trying not to, like poo-poo myself, but I was just looking at all these names and looking at these black folks connected to these very large companies and the sponsorships. And so I'm curious, how were you able to build those relationships and connections?Angela: Yeah, it's really honestly the volunteers. So CBE, I should add, is an all-volunteer-run organization. We probably have 50 to 60 volunteers, and nearly all of them are black professionals at various companies or community organizations or schools, and they're not just in the Bay Area anymore. We have quite a few that have spread throughout the U.S. as well. But yeah, between our advisory board and our volunteers, who are spread throughout, I think it's really a lot of people who get the mission, get what we're trying to do, and support it wholeheartedly. Yeah, to your point earlier about, you know, just the black professionals coming together and using those--you know, using their talents and, you know, not being siloed, I mean, honestly, the CBE story is really that. Like, our marketing lead, for example, does marketing--I think she's the marketing director at Forbes, and, you know, we had a comms person who focused on, you know, our comms work, and, you know, we had tech people from Apple and other companies, and so I feel people who, you know, are at these different companies who have these skill sets, applying them to CBE and, you know, providing their time, which is making it easy for us to sort of move quickly, right? 'Cause--I mean, I'm a lawyer. There's so much I don't know about design, about marketing, about, like, even--honestly, like, the non-profit filings and getting all the non-profit paperwork. Like, that took lawyers too who were interested in, like, the mission and really wanting to--lawyers from Winston & Strawn, [inaudible] Taylor, to, you know, use those skills and, you know, offer them for free for, you know, uplifting the community. So I think we're just really fortunate to have a lot of volunteers who are connected to these companies and who are not only willing to give their time and their energy but are also willing to make the asks, the sponsorship asks, which, you know, at the end of the day is crucial. Zach: Super crucial.Angela: Yeah, to be able to fund all of this, and I think for us it's more crucial because the socio-economic gap that we really want to bridge--I mean, the main story is just access. I think a lot of people don't have access to these really amazing world-class professional development experiences because the cost is just too high, and so we're really aiming to use the sponsorship dollars to, you know, cover all of the costs, and not have to pass those costs down to the individual to attend. So my dream for 2020 is that CBE's summit will be completely free to the community and that it's completed sponsored by, you know, all of our great sponsors and paid for by our great sponsors. 2019 unfortunately we're--you know, we're not quite there, so we're gonna have a modest ticket price, but in the future that's definitely where we're going, and I think it's just so great to have sponsors and donors that get it and, you know, are supportive of it.Zach: No, absolutely. Now, let me ask you this. Where can people learn more about the Coalition of Black Excellence? And then, more specifically, about CBE Week?Angela: Yeah. So they can go to www.CBEWeek.com. Our registration will be opened up tomorrow actually for the summit, for the vendor showcase, for the gala. We'll be keeping it updated with speakers as they come in. You know, we're getting a ton of great speakers, as I'm sure you're aware since you're interviewing them all.Zach: That's right. [laughs]Angela: [laughs] But yeah, so we'll be updating that as well, but yeah, CBEWeek.com, and then you can also follow us on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn, where ExperienceCBE is our handle. Zach: And when is CBE Week? What are the dates for CBE Week?Angela: So CBE Week will take place February 18th to 24th. Monday is gonna be a volunteer day that's gonna focus on a number of volunteer projects throughout the day. Tuesday and Wednesday are gonna be more like 2018, where different companies host events that will be open to the community. The actual CBE summit that covers the different panel topics will happen February 21st and 22nd. The career fair and vendor fair will be that Friday, the 22nd, of the CBE summit. The gala will be on Saturday, the 23rd, and we're partnering with the United Negro College Fund this year for the gala, which should be exciting. Zach: Wow.Angela: Yeah. And then Sunday, again, will be the Black Joy Parade in Oakland. So the CBE summit will take place at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in San Francisco, and then the other events throughout the week will take place throughout the Bay.Zach: This is--this is incredible. So before we get out of here, do you have any parting words or shout outs?Angela: A huge shout out to all of the organizations that are collaborating with us. So that's one thing I forgot to mention, that there's a lot of organizations, community organizations, like Traveling While Black, Our Collective, Toasted Life, Black Joy Parade, UNCF. There's so many organizations that are coming together, which I think is also a beautiful story, because, you know, we could all be competitive and try to fight for time and money, but this is really actually--you know, it's been completely the opposite experience. We've really been super collaborative, and it's been beautiful just to see the different organizations come together and host events throughout the week and, you know, work together in different ways. So yeah, so I think this will be an exciting time, and I hope to see everyone there. Zach: Absolutely. So this is the thing--so Angela, I'm gonna say this on the show. I want you to hear this while our audience hears this. Please don't underestimate the impact that you're making. Your point around access and the level of collaboration that the Coalition of Black Excellence is achieving here and already has achieved is incredible. You're absolutely right in that so often times you can kind of get caught up in competing against one another and trying to, you know, "I want to be Mr. Such-and-Such," or Ms. Such-and-Such, as opposed to really working together for a collective goal to achieve a unified vision, and so that is incredible here, and I'm just honored to be a part of this. I'm honored to have you here. We're gonna drop some air horns right here. Angela: [laughs]Zach: And we're gonna make sure that everyone has all of the information in the show notes, and then, folks, as you're listening to this, make sure that you realize this is the Speaker Series that you're listening to, Angela Johnson, Coalition of Black Excellence, and make sure that you continue to stay tuned with us, folks, because we're gonna continue to spotlight the speakers that are gonna be a part of this. Again, the dates are in February. You'll have all the details in the show notes. Make sure you continue to follow us, and we'll continue to drop information as it's released and updates as the Coalition of Black Excellence makes them. Now, that does it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod. Remember, you can follow the Coalition of Black Excellence on Instagram at ExperienceCBE, and then you can follow them and keep up with all of their organizational updates on their website, www.CBEWeek.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Angela Johnson, CEO and founder of the Coalition of Black Excellence. Peace. Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

On the first installment of Living Corporate’s CBE Week Special Speaker series, we have the pleasure of sitting down with strategist, leader, entrepreneur, educator, and mentor Adamaka Ajaelo to discuss her program, Self-eSTEM, and its vision to provide young women of color strong support models while supporting their pursuit to achieve a successful career in the STEM field.

Through our partnership with the Coalition of Black Excellence founded by Angela J. , we have the pleasure of sitting down with movers and shakers across the industry to discuss their unique programs and visions. This is a series promoting CBE Week, an event designed to highlight excellence in the black community, connect black professionals across sectors, and provide opportunities for professional development and community engagement. CBE Week runs from February 18-24 and will be located in the Bay Area!Find out more about CBE/CBE Week here: https://www.cbeweek.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/experiencecbe/Twitter: https://twitter.com/experiencecbeFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/experienceCBE/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/coalitionofblackexcellence/

In our Season 1 recap episode, we discuss the lessons we've learned over the course of the season, some of our favorite episodes, our Favorite Things, AND tease a little Season 2 content that's coming your way in 2019!Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateChris Price's new EP: https://itunes.apple.com/bz/album/good-evening-ep/1436626656TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach.Ade: And it's Ade.Zach: And you're listening to the Season 1 wrap-up. We out here.Ade: Yeah. Yeah, we sure are. So what are we gonna talk about today?Zach: Okay, so we're gonna talk about lessons learned...Ade: Aye.Zach: Some of our favorite episodes...Ade: Aye.Zach: [laughing] Okay. Favorite Things...Ade: Aye.Zach: Okay.Ade: I'm just trying to be your hype man here. Like, I really don't understand why you're taking this so hard. Let's go.Zach: It's just funny. I think maybe some of it is, like, cultural differences, right? 'Cause, like, "aye--" I don't know, "aye" is pretty common across the black diaspora.Ade: I feel like in the diaspora you say "aye," and that's, like, a cue for somebody to really--Zach: To get--to get hyper.Ade: To get hyper, yes. I wasn't--I wasn't trying to ruin the rating of our--of our show here, so.Zach: No, no, no. I mean, "aye" is cool, it's just I think--I think a southern "aye"--we can talk about this maybe another time, but I feel as if if you're in the south and you say "aye," and if you're in the--I don't know. I feel like the "ayes" mean different things. Maybe not.Ade: No, I hear you. Now that you say it, I realize that, like, "aye" can also be like, "Okay, bro. You're wilin'."Zach: Aye, yeah. Exactly. So anyway. "Aye" can also be, like, a sound of acknowledgement and appreciation, kind of like how I just did it.Ade: Right.Zach: I don't know. Black language and just--black and brown language frankly is just so deep and rich. It's really cool.Ade: I love it.Zach: Now, where were we? Oh, yes. Okay, so Favorite Things. We definitely want to give out some thank yous, right?Ade: Most definitely, most definitely.Zach: Right, right, right, and then we have a few house-cleaning administrative things that we want to talk to you about as we--as we kind of take this season break and get into season two. So with that being said, lessons learned. Ade, what are some of the--Ade: Oh, I go first?Zach: You go first. What are some of the lessons you've learned in this?Ade: Aye. Oh, they are varied, they are plenty, and some I think I'm still in the midst of learning, but I think my top three takeaways from this whole process of--you know, from ideation, which was largely you--which was mostly Zach--and coming together, building a team and growing as a collective, I think the top three things that I've learned--one is to speak up. Closed mouths do in fact never get fed. Your mouth is closed? You get no bread. See? I tried to rhyme. See? See what I did there?Zach: Bars.Ade: Something-something-something-something. But yeah, if you do not in fact speak up for yourself, and that is in every facet of your life but it's even more important in your professional spaces. If you do not speak up for yourself, if you are not your own best advocate, if you do not find yourselves in the rooms where, you know, they're making those decisions and they're making the plays that you want to be making, and if you're not actively putting yourselves in those spaces and then speaking up about what you need more to grow, what you need more to succeed, it's not--it's not gonna be a great time. A great time will not be had by all, mostly you, and the reason I think for that is because people can't read your mind. People can't help you if you are not willing to, you know, point people at the issues and the places which you could use that assistance. See what I'm saying?Zach: I so agree. I think that, you know, it's not about--and when you said, like, "Closed mouths don't get fed," it's not because there's not food there, it's just that, like, everybody else is focused on eating too. So most times, you're gonna have to open your own mouth to eat. And that whole point around just speaking up and being vocal and putting yourself into comfortable positions, putting yourself out there, is just kind of part and parcel. Like, I don't know if I've ever even seen, like, any project be successful with someone just kind of, like, waiting for everything to come to them.Ade: Right, right. What about you?Zach: I think for me the biggest--one of the biggest lessons learned is that you miss all the shots that you don't take, right? And I know that's very cliche, but it's true. We had some--we had some amazing opportunities to interview some really great guests this past season, and then also just network with a bunch of people that we didn't--that we did not interview on the show but that we shared the idea of Living Corporate with and who they were really receptive too, and we have some things coming in the future, in 2019, that we're really excited about, all because of us just putting ourselves out there. And so, you know, I'm thinking about the Lakers and, you know, LeBron, the GOAT. Yes, that's right. I said it. The GOAT.Ade: I do not disagree. At least the basketball GOAT.Zach: Okay. Yeah, no. Definitely the basketball GOAT, and he's also a super GOAT when it comes to social activism, but regardless, one of my favorite Lakers is actually Kobe, but it's not because I think he's the best Laker. I don't, but I do--what I loved about his game was the fact that he would just shoot it, man, and he would make really ill-advised shots, but his mindset was like, "Look, I'ma shoot it, and I'ma make some and I'ma miss some," and it was the--it was his lack of fear when it comes to failure, right? And I think that often times we don't really look at failure as a genuine growth and development opportunity. I think some of that is because of us as just black and brown people. Failure is not an opportunity to grow. Failure is just failure, 'cause we don't have the same privileges and access to really learn and grow from our failure. When we fail, we just fail, but I think it's important for us in this era, especially as black and brown creatives, to really embrace failing forward, and I know that Matthew Manning with Gumbo, we had him on a couple--just a couple weeks ago, he talked about that too. So yeah, that was a big one for me, and in fact--hold on. Let me not--let me not forget this. We actually got some questions in that I think would be good for us to put in our lessons in this Lessons Learned section from--Ade: Really?Zach: Yeah, from social media. We've got some people to ask us some questions.Ade: Aye.Zach: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So someone said, "What is your biggest takeaway from interviewing all of the guests on Living Corporate?" So I feel like we can kind of roll that into a Lessons Learned. What was one of your biggest takeaways from interviewing all of the guests on Living Corporate this season, Ade?Ade: Ooh. There were some amazing ones actually, and I think it's kind of like an aggregate of thoughts, but ultimately it's that you need to be intentional about your career, and I think there's a common thread that kind of ties all of these thoughts together, and I think it is that you need to be intentional. And that is not to say--well, first I want to address--before I get too distracted about answering that question I do want to address something. You were talking about the Kobe Bryant shots. We are not saying you should make ill-advised shots in your career. Don't take risks--don't let your mouth write a check that your skills cannot cash.Zach: Amen. Thank you, yes. Good cleanup on that, yes.Ade: Yeah. Like, don't get up there somewhere and be like, "Yeah, I can totally stand up this project in a week, because Living Corporate told me that I can, and I should say wild things at work." Don't do that. Do not do that, but we are saying that, especially for women, especially for black and brown women, you are so much more qualified than you give yourself credit for, and part of life is in taking the risk. If you are always prepping to be perfect, you are never, ever, ever going to take the shot. So yeah, that's take #1 in response to that. Take #2 I think is to be intentional. Part of being able to take those risks is in knowing that you've done the prep work, right? So I can't just walk in to anybody's office today and be like, "I want to be your CTO." They'll be like, "Who let this person in?" And also, "How quickly can you let her back out?" Not because they want to be cruel, but because they're being realistic.Zach: Yeah, but you're not ready.Ade: Correct, but I do know that in 20 years I am going to be somebody's CTO because I am going to be making all of the steps that I need. Or maybe CEO. We'll see.Zach: Straight up. Speak it. No, real talk.Ade: But the point is that you make all of the decisions now, you prep now, you put all of your ducks in a row essentially so that your life doesn't just happen to you, so that your career doesn't just happen to you. Many of the most successful people that I know made very intentional decisions. Like, for example--I'm gonna use my partner as an example, and I hope she doesn't get mad at me, but by our bedside table she has this framed "What do you want to be when you grow up?" sort of fill in the blanks paper, and on there she has--I think this is from when she was in fourth or fifth grade, and on there she said she wants to be a lawyer like Thurgood Marshall or Johnnie Cochran, and she ordered her steps in such a way that she ended up going to Howard University and University of Laverne, both of which were universities that both of those people attended, right? So it wasn't just that you make decisions about your life and then hope that it happens to you, it's that you work. You put in the effort. You put in all of the time and energy required to get you to those places, and yes, you will of course succeed. Well, God willing, and hopefully capitalism doesn't get in your way, but you succeed because you've thought your life through, you've thought your career through, you've thought your path through, and if what you're looking for is an escape plan, you've thought that through as well so that you're not suffering on the other side of it, if that makes any sense.Zach: No, it makes a lot of sense, and, you know, to your point, it definitely was oversimplification with the Kobe analogy and--like, that was a really, really good cleanup, Shaq. That was great because you--yes.Ade: You're totally welcome.Zach: No, it was--no, it was dope. Because it's funny, in saying that what we also dismiss or rather what we ignore or underplay in that shooting our shot with getting some of the guests that we were able to get, and we're just more than honored and excited about the guests that we have for y'all for season two, is the fact that we spent hours upon hours and weeks upon weeks as a team in really, like, clarifying our mission, our purpose, getting our branding together, our language, the logo work. Like, there was a lot, and there is a lot that goes behind this very, you know, perhaps to a lot of y'all just, like, very simple, like, straight-forward show and concept, and it took time to, like, really build those things, and so there was a lot of preparation that went into it. So before I put an email together to send to DeRay or Beto O'Rourke or J Prince or, you know, a CEO or whoever it may be, there was a lot of things that we had that we could stand on to justify why I'm in this person's inbox or why I'm in this person's DMs. Now I'm gonna sound like I'm actually a Kobe stan, and I'm really not, but really to kind of go back to my initial analogy, Kobe didn't just show up at the game and just shoot those to us seemingly crazy shots. Like, he put up thousands of shots before and after every game, and in practice he's shooting thousands of these shots. He's practicing these shots. So when it's game time, literally when it's game time, and he pulls up a fadeaway over, like, three people, like, to us it looks like he just randomly threw it up, but no, like, he's been practicing that, and so--and actually, kind of to answer the question--kind of to go back to what you were talking about and kind of answering this question that was submitted to us, one of the biggest things I learned from our guests was that a lot of times we'll see--like, we see the glory, but we don't know the story, right? So, like, we see people who are like, "Man--oh, I work with HBO." Like, we spoke with Emily Miethner, who is the CEO of FindSpark, and she was like, "Yeah, we had a partnership," and she named all of these huge brands, but, like, if you just dig, like, a second deeper, you'll find out she's been doing this for, like, a decade. Like, FindSpark is blowing up now, but it's been years in the making of her building this. The same thing like when you talk to Janet Pope, who's the leader of diversity and inclusion and social responsibility for Capgemini, which is a global consulting firm--you know, you'll talk to her. You may see her in France or see her all around the world doing some really fancy stuff, but, like, her career is 12 years in the making, right? There's a lot of work that goes behind that. So yeah, no, for sure on that. We have another question. The next question, which I think is a really good one, is...Ade: Aye.Zach: [laughs]Ade: I'm sorry. That's like my go-to. I don't even think about it. It just, like--the "aye" is from--it's from my soul. It, like, spawns directly from...Zach: [laughs] No, no, no. It's good. I like it. So "What is in store for the next season and when can we expect you back?"Ade: Oh, wow. I mean, listen to this episode. Listen all the way to the end. You'll have some answers by the time the episode ends.Zach: For sure. No, for sure. Definitely listen to this episode, listen to it all the way to the end. Don't fast forward to the end 'cause, like, we kind of need the clicks. Like, we definitely want the download data, but, I mean, if you want to fast forward to the end, I mean, I'm not mad at you, but...Ade: And also it hurts my feelings when people skip past me, so.Zach: Who skips past--who skips past you?Ade: Well--so I'm a small person. Okay, [inaudible]--Zach: Oh, I see. Go ahead.Ade: Ooh.Zach: [laughs] No, it's just that it came together quickly when you said that. You were saying literally.Ade: No, no, no. You agreed to that way too quickly. Now I kind of want to fight. What? Wow.Zach: [laughs] Go ahead with your story. Go ahead. I'm listening.Ade: Okay. So I was at a bar, and I ordered a whiskey ginger. I think I actually ordered a Manhattan. No, an old-fashioned. Whatever. A whiskey-based drink, as is my custom, and the bartender just kept giving my drink to other people. I'm, like, watching him, and he walks past me, walks past me again with my drink, 'cause I saw him make it. It was a whiskey ginger. And then he just walks to one end of the bar, gives a person my drink. The first time it happened I was like, "Hm. Maybe--I don't know. Maybe they also ordered a whiskey ginger," but it happened, like, three times. Three. So I essentially was like, "All right, look. I will climb over this bar and fight you if necessary, but I'm gonna need my drink."Zach: Goodness.Ade: So I, like, start jumping up and waving at him, and he's like, "Oh, I didn't see you there." What? What?Zach: Come on. [laughs]Ade: What?Zach: No, no, no. But, like, real talk though. Like, size privilege is a thing, right? Like, there are certain privileges that come from being tall and from being thin. There's certain privileges, you know what I mean?Ade: You know there is. Absolutely.Zach: So that's real. Like, that's super real, and I can say that, like, this is an opportunity for me to practice empathy and not sympathy, 'cause I can't really relate to that.Ade: [laughs]Zach: Right? I can't, 'cause I'm always seen, you know what I mean? Like, you're not gonna not see me. Even if you try to--let's say, you know, you're trying to practice micro-aggressions and act like I'm not there. Like, you're not--like, you can't. You'll look silly. Like, I'ma get in your way. You're gonna have to acknowledge me. So that's real, but no, I was just curious. I mean, I would say that more than a few people have pulled me aside and been like, "Hey, your co-host is great." Like, [inaudible], so I didn't know what you meant about getting passed over.Ade: Aye.Zach: [laughs] Yo, so this is what we're gonna do for season two. I'ma tell you what's coming up in season two, it's making me taking that "aye" as a sound bite and putting it on that soundboard, and we'll just play that.Ade: I am tired of [inaudible].Zach: It's ridiculous. Okay. So yeah, definitely listen. We're gonna talk a little bit about season two at the end and what's coming up just after this episode, 'cause we have some things happening after this season one wrap-up episode.Ade: Sure are.Zach: Yep, but what I--what I will say is, you know, please in season two expect--I don't know. I mean, I don't want to say a bit more personality 'cause I do feel as if we showed our personality a lot in season one, but, you know, it was our first season. Like, we're learning our platform. Ade and I did not know each other before we started Living Corporate, so we're certainly learning and growing as just friends in our relationship, so expect more of that, and also expect even more courageous and, like, really intentional content around underrepresented individuals and people groups in Corporate America. Like, I'll even give you an example.Ade: You are giving away the whole ending of the show.Zach: I know. Let me just--I'ma hold off on it, but we have some really great, like, topics that I'm really excited about because the point of this space is to have real talk in a corporate world, right? Like, corporate spaces. Even when you talk about inclusion and diversity, like, it's always masked with, like, other things, right? So, like, diversity of thought, diversity of education, diversity of--I'm like, "Can we be honest?" Like, "Can we just have an honest conversation about, like, intersectionality and how race and gender specifically play a role in shaping the entire planet," right? Like, can we just talk about it from a really honest and genuine perspective? Like, that's our goal. So just expect more of that in season two. When you can expect us back? You can expect us back--you can expect us back, man. We'll talk about that at the end of this episode, but you can expect us back. And maybe I'll drop a--maybe I'll drop a hint.Ade: Oh, we're doing hints now?Zach: I have a dream that you can expect us back soon.Ade: You can't be trusted with no secrets, man. Like, I just want you to know that right now.Zach: [laughs] Okay. All right, all right, all right. Let's see here now. We have one more question. Here we go. "How does one successfully transition out of the corporate world?" This is a good question, and I--you know, I'ma say this. I don't think it's fair for you and I to take this episode to try to walk through and, like, rehash some really great content that Matthew Manning of Gumbo Media and Nick Bailey of Black Texas Magazine have really done a great job at, like, expounding upon when it comes to starting a startup, transitioning from your full-time job and pursuing your dreams, like, wholeheartedly. And also Fenorris Pearson. Like, our first episode, right? He talked about transitioning out of the corporate world and getting into more non-profit work, right? So I think that there are some great episodes, and, like, this is not, like, an excuse, my back answer. Like, we definitely appreciate the question, but my biggest advice would be to go back and run those episodes back AND to look at the show notes because you have the contact information for those people, and I know who sent this question in, so I will actually circle back with them directly. And we'll make sure to--we'll put these questions and the answers, like, within the show notes within this episode, but there have been some really great episodes that we've had around that. What do you think about that question, Ade?Ade: I think, for one, we had so many amazing episodes that I connected to, that are literally just playing in the back of my head whenever I am in situations at work, that help essentially edify me, I think is the term that I'm trying to use. I'm not trying to go to church, but my top three though would have to be the mental health episode because, for all intents and purposes, I laughed my way through that episode and also connected really deeply with so many of the themes. Like, yes you want to hustle, yes you want to grind, but there's nothing to grind for if you lose your mental health in exchange for being in these spaces. And yes, these spaces often--these corporate spaces often do not have you in mind. They didn't have you in mind when they were formulating those spaces, and so now your existence in those spaces is very much revolutionary, and that said, you will often have to carry the burden of being the only, or even worse the only of onlys, in those corporate spaces, and so it 1. made me feel a lot less alone and 2. gave me a lot of very actionable advice, and so that was appreciated. Honorable mention goes to my conversation--it was a B-Side, not an episode, so I couldn't include it, but my conversation with Christa Clarke where we kind of built on that idea of what self-care looks like in corporate spaces. I think she's the first person that--maybe not the first person that I know, but the first person who was just so open about, "Yeah, I took a pay cut because it was what was best for me personally," and she's doing something that makes her happy. She has a creative space. She has everything essentially that you need to have a happy life without the stress, and so she's inspirational, and I'm still waiting to have cocktails with her. Last two. I think the Let Me In conversation with TJ, because--Zach: That was a good one, yeah.Ade: Yeah. You know, in real-time seeing someone who did precisely what I want to do with resources and having the conversations that I needed, and in a lot of ways he was inspirational because he decided he was gonna do this for the kids, you know? He was very much like, "I want to give back to my community, and this is the way that I've identified would benefit my community, but I'm not there yet," and so he took it upon himself to better himself because he knew--he (treated?) himself as a meaningful part of a whole, not necessarily making that career pivot just for himself, which was just a delight to hear. And I think the last one in my top three is Janet Pope. And again, we've had a lot of really amazing episodes, but these three spoke to me. Like, they met me where I was at sort of thing, and, you know, each and every single one of those conversations really came at a really pivotal time for me and a really important time because, for example, the conversation with TJ, it was at a time where I was particularly stressed and thinking, "You know what? Maybe tech isn't for me. Maybe I'm just not smart enough. Maybe I'm just not good enough." I was really struggling at my former place of employment, and it didn't feel like I was doing any meaningful work, and it felt like I was around places that were just becoming toxic for me, and so it was just really, really good to get these reminders, like, "Hey, it's not in your head, but you can do something about it." Like, these systems exist outside of your control, but here's your locus of control. Here's your internal--you can do this work, and having people who have done the work, who are able to distill the vastness of their experiences into "This is what I did. You can do it too," was priceless for me.Zach: Those were really good choices.Ade: Thank you.Zach: So yeah, you can definitely count B-Sides. Like, B-Sides, they're episodes, so let's make sure we count those. So after I finish mine, if you have some extras that you want to throw in there, please feel free. So favorite episodes. So the first one that sticks out to me has to be Preston Mitchum's B-Side, right? Because it was so unapologetic. Preston Mitchum, he was talking about LGBTQ identity, he was talking about pro-blackness and, like, what that looks like practically in the workplace and as someone who's in a highly political area. He lives in D.C. He's a lawyer. He's an educator. He's an activist. So that one--that one was great.Ade: Yep. All facts, no cap.Zach: All facts, no cap. Listen--so side note, shout out to all these new slang words. I realize that I'm old now 'cause I--my generation as millennials, like older millennials, right? So I'm saying older millennials. I'm 29. We don't come up with all of the dances anymore, and we don't come up with all of the slang, so no cap--Ade: Can I just say something real quick?Zach: Go ahead.Ade: The first time I heard "no cap" I thought they were talking about Captain America, and I was mad confused because I genuinely just didn't get why they were bringing up Captain America in a conversation that had nothing to do with Captain America. I was just kind of like, "Uh..."Zach: "What is "no cap?"" Right? No, I was confused, so I was like, "What is "no cap?"" So "no cap." "Say less" is also hot in these streets, "say less," and then also I've heard of tick. Like, "You got tick." Like, "You got juice," or sauce or influence. You have tick. So that was a new--Ade: You have what?Zach: Tick. Tick. Chance the Rapper--Ade: Like the animals?Zach: Yeah. Like the bug, yeah. It's like the pest. Tick.Ade: Oh, no. I just--there's some things I just can't get with, and that's gonna have to be one of them.Zach: Tick is--yeah, tick is hot in these Chicago and Midwestern streets supposedly, so...Ade: Well, keep them Chicago and Midwest streets [inaudible] because...Zach: Is it not popping in the DMV?Ade: Not only is it cold, y'all not--what? Tick? Nah, that don't even make no sense. Like, what?Zach: [laughs] Goodness gracious. So yeah, so "no cap." [laughing] Going back to the podcast favs. So yes, Preston, and another one was Effective Allyship with Amy C. Waninger. That one was great.Ade: Aye.Zach: Around the same thoughts, because Amy being a white woman, and very white, right? And, like, we talked about that on the episode, 'cause the topic was effective allyship, and she talks about effective--like, she is a very white woman in a very white space, and just her just unapologetic tone around the reality of race and gender and intersectionality, really important. I would have to piggyback on one of your answers though. The Janet Pope episode was very good. I really, really enjoyed that one, and I was excited because I was not on the episode, and I was able just to listen and hear about y'all's journey, hear about just perspectives that I don't--I don't consider, and the fact that it was three black women talking too, which I was really excited and thankful for. Oh, okay, and then so a B-Side was--Latricia and I did an episode on Botham Jean, the man who was murdered by the police in his own home, and I liked that episode because it was not in any way, like, in alignment with our formula at all. Like, it was a--it was very much so, like, a--I don't want to say pop culture, but it was a current events-type episode, and that was probably, like, the maddest y'all will ever hear me on this podcast. Let me not say it. Well, hopefully it will be the maddest you ever hear me, but it was just very frank, and actually, people at my current place of employment heard the episode and reached out to me about it, like, in a very positive and encouraging way, and it helped me extend my network somehow, which was, like, an affirmation that, like, speaking truth to power is, to me, always the right thing to do. Like, you'll never go wrong in that. Like, how you speak truth to power and your method may adjust, but you doing it is not wrong. So that's three. I really enjoyed--I really enjoyed the episode with Deborah Owens about the self-advocacy, strategic networking and self-advocacy, when she was like, "You don't have a career."Ade: Oh, wow. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that.Zach: [laughing] "I don't want to do anything to mess up my career." "Sis, you don't have a career here." Boy. Goodness.Ade: Oof. A drag.Zach: No, it was--it was very funny, and then my fifth spot is kind of actually a tie between two. One is an episode where you kept on saying the person was tugging on your wig, which was the Professional Reinvention episode with my dad, Edward Nunn. That was pretty good. I liked that episode. It was tied with the B-Side for Professional Reinvention with Angela Shaw, and she's an HR business partner, public speaker, and she's the Austin Human Resource Management Association president, right? And so I really enjoyed--really enjoyed those episodes, but, you know--I don't even want to say honorable mention. I have a ton of others. The J Prince episode, even though it scared the mess out of me, was great. That was terrifying.Ade: [laughing] I remember you talking about that episode. You were freaking out.Zach: I was freaking out. And listen, let me tell you something, y'all. Y'all go back and run that episode back. That was the shortest episode in Living Corporate history. It was very short. I think it was, like, nine minutes. And then of course the DeRay Mckesson episode was phenomenal. I enjoyed that, even though the signal was bad. I appreciate the fact that he took the time to join, and he was really cool, so. You know what time it is? We didn't have it on our last episode, so now we're gonna get into Favorite Things. And this is the last Favorite Things for season one. So, you know, Ade, you typically have, like, seven favorite things. Feel free to drop as many more--Ade: Wow. You are so disrespectful. I just--I want you to know that it is on sight for you.Zach: [laughing] This is the thing. We've got to stop using--we've got to stop using phrases from the early 2000s and late '90s that don't mean what they mean anymore. "On sight" don't mean--Ade: That is what it means.Zach: "On sight," but you don't see anybody anymore, right? Technology is in the way. Now "on sight" don't mean that. "On sight" means that when I see you're green, when you're available on Facebook, it's a problem, you know what I mean? [laughing] Like, we don't see each other like that no more. It's just technology.Ade: [inaudible]. I just want you to know that the way my spirit is moving...Zach: You're moving--you're moving in early 2000s "on sight," that's what you're saying.Ade: The energy that I retain is of DMX fame, and I just want you to know that the minute you step off your plane...Zach: And come to D.C.? It's on sight?Ade: And land in...Zach: And put my two feet on the--Ade: You don't even gotta put both feet.Zach: I'll put one toe, one toe on D.C. ground.Ade: A toenail.Zach: A toenail. It's on sight.Ade: In any of the surrounding zip codes where I reside.Zach: Goodness. In the D, the M, or the V.Ade: I will fight you.Zach: Understood, I appreciate that.Ade: All right, [inaudible]?Zach: All right.Ade: So glad we understand each other.Zach: Great. [laughs]Ade: You're ridiculous. I can't stand you. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] Oh, goodness gracious. So yes, please, Ade, commence with your cavalcade of Favorite Things.Ade: I--oh, my God. I can't keep saying that I want to fight you, but I do want to fight you. All right. Okay. So my Favorite Things--I actually don't want to go with books, and here's why I don't want to go with books. We have a list of books, and I would actually love to see if we could, like, get some listener feedback on their favorite books, but we said favorite THINGS, so I don't know. I feel like we should expand our repertoire a bit. So I have three, because I always have a lot. I'm very indecisive in that way. Top favorite thing is goat meat pepper soup.Zach: Oh, that sounds good.Ade: I am making some at the moment, and my house smells like peace, joy, and happiness, and so yeah. I'm partial, but goat meat pepper soup is the GOAT.Zach: Aye.Ade: You see what I did there? You see--you see what I did? You see?Zach: That was clever. Yeah, that was good. [laughs]Ade: And you should try goat meat pepper soup with some rice noodles. It's a delight. It's a delight. I just want to say that. Next favorite thing is Rent the Runway. Now, before I get any judgment from anybody, I just want to say I'm not gonna spend $8,000 on an Oscar de la Renta dress, but I do like Oscar de la Renta's dresses, so I'll spend $300 on renting one. Bloop. That's all I've got to say about that.Zach: Understood.Ade: Thank you for appreciating me, friend. And I think my final thing that I want to just shout out is contact lenses. Now, I just want to wax poetic for a second about contact lenses, 'cause I don't know if everybody knows, but my eyes are purely decorative. Without glasses or contacts, I can't see a thing. I literally see the world like those super out of light--out of focus lights that you see in the distance in Christmas. That's my life when I don't have any glasses or contacts on, and I just want to shout out to God for working way harder than Satan, because I can't tell you the number of bruises I've gotten just because, like, my eyes didn't see fit to notice that there was a corner there.Zach: [laughs] Man, that's real though.Ade: Or how many times I have just busted my whole behind because I didn't have contacts or glasses and missed, you know, the final three rows of stairs.Zach: Yo, that's the--that's the thing. When you miss, like, those steps, like, just one or two, you feel like--like, your life flashes before your eyes. Like, you feel you're about to die.Ade: Listen. Have you ever fallen up stairs?Zach: Trust--have I? Yes, most certainly.Ade: 1. I am disturbed to find that we are united in that experience...Zach: Most certainly.Ade: But also 2., and more importantly--oh, shoot. One second. Also, more importantly, how is it that we've managed to fall UP stairs? Like, I feel like we need to speak to somebody about this.Zach: I don't know. That's the thing though. It's us and, like, millions of other people. Like, plenty of people fall up the stairs. Like, honestly, the internet has brought of course a variety of great things, and one of the best things for me is that it really has helped me feel more comfortable in the fact that I'm a klutz. I'm really clumsy. That's why when I--that's why when I go out places, I don't even be moving around that much. I find, like, one little place to be and I kind of park there, because I know the minute that I move I'ma knock something over, I'ma bump into somebody, I'ma trip.Ade: You know what? That's a really good plan, because I certainly am gonna need something. Something, something. Maybe, like, you know, that bubble. Not, like, because I'm immuno-compromised but because, like, otherwise I'm gonna bump into everything and hurt myself. So yeah, things that you've learned about me today. I'm extremely clumsy.Zach: Most of my friends, close members in my family are very clumsy. Just clumsy. Just clumsy people, and I don't know what that's about. I've heard that there's some tie-in to people being clumsy and being intelligent though. Believe it or not I have, but, you know, that could just be junk science. You know, fake news. Who knows? Okay, so those are your Favorite Things. Hm. So my Favorite Things for the season, as our last entry into Favorite Things--I also will not do books. I too will do Things.Ade: Aye.Zach: Aye. So my first Favorite Thing has to be the music that my brother-in-law Chris Price has dropped. He actually dropped an EP, and actually you should be hearing that in the background right now. It's just dope music, and I enjoy it because it's just jazz. Like, it's light jazz via piano, and what I like about it is--so beyond, like, the music itself, which I definitely listen to. It's good study music. It's good just kind of relax music. What I really like about it, the reason why it's a Favorite Thing--Ade: (Aye?) I've really got to stop saying that. It's driving me nuts now.Zach: See? Exactly, but it's cool. It's cool, 'cause I'ma run this back, I'ma cut out that little A, and I'm gonna make that--'cause we have a soundboard for season two. I'm gonna be like--it's gonna be "aye-aye-aye-aye." We're gonna just play it to death.Ade: I will fight you.Zach: That and the air horns. That's gonna be season two sound effects staples. Okay, so anyway, back to this. So what excites me and why it's a Favorite Thing is not just because it's good music, it's because any time I see someone, like, pursue their dream or pursue something and, like, really execute upon something that they have been thinking about or, like, a passion of theirs or something they find really interesting--that excites me, right? So that's why it's a Favorite Thing. So the music that you're hearing, we'll have the information in the show description so you can check it out yourself. Make sure you check it out on iTunes and everywhere that streams music. So that's one. The second thing that's my Favorite Thing has to be, and I'm just gonna come out and say it. I'm gonna come out and say it, man. Vaseline. So Vasel--Ade: What?Zach: Yeah, Vaseline. Like, Vaseline, especially in the melanated community, I think is greatly underused, right? So, you know, we don't talk about it enough, but I'ma talk about it - ashy. Ashiness, okay? So ashiness being the predominance of dry skin or a lack of moisture in your skin, and I think a lot of times--I think big lotion, the big lotion industry if I may, has deluded us into thinking that these very watery lotions are satisfactory for our skin, right? But you've got to realize, like, we don't live in a world that caters to blackness or brownness or anything like that. We live in a world where we are not the default. So that watery lotion, that hotel-level lotion, is not gonna cut it for us, and so I think that Vaseline, petroleum, Vaseline, is a great thing. It's a Favorite Thing of mine. Vaseline has never let me down. It is very cold in Dallas and in Houston--Ade: All of the shea butter in the world though.Zach: Shea butter also. So let me--let me actually amend that. Shea butter, cocoa butter, and Vaseline. And I guess--so under the umbrella of thicker moisture risers and moisture retainers, and it's really--Ade: I'm here to educate you. So shea butter and Vaseline and all of those things, they're not going to moisturize your skin. They're going to lock in moisture.Zach: That's what I said--but I said that--remember when I said [inaudible]--Ade: You said moisturizes first.Zach: Okay, fine, but then I said--Ade: I heard you though.Zach: Okay, cool, but then I said retain--Ade: Okay, but I heard you though.Zach: I said retain too though.Ade: [laughs]Zach: [laughs] They retain the moisture, right? So anyway, it's just important, man. I think, you know, a lot of y'all have--you know, a few folks have come in and emailed us about career advice and how do you do this and how do you do this. Let me tell you something. One thing you can do, anybody can do right now, is be less ashy. That is gonna help you in your career, no matter what you're trying to do.Ade: Um, sir? What?Zach: And so--[laughs] Like, no, really though. Really though, name one person that you've seen on television that's a person of color who's ashy? Malala is always--Malala? She's always moisturized. Michelle Obama? She looks moisturized to death. Her everything. There's not one dry bone on her body. Barack Obama? Same way. Idris Elba? Come on. Like, come on. Like, we know this. Oprah? Oprah never goes out ashy. We need to do--we need to do better so that Nivea--that's right, I'm coming at y'all, Nivea--all these other watery, water-based lotions, they're not for us, y'all. That's right, I'm talking to us right now. That's right. So that's--and look, that's just number two. I got one more. I got one more. Oh, Murray's Hair Grease also goes in that Favorite Things. I'm talking about thick pomades and lotions.Ade: Okay. You know what, sir? I'm gonna send you some shea butter because I can't listen to you crackle and pop over there anymore.Zach: [laughs] I don't crackle and--Ade: Don't claim you're not snapping.Zach: I don't crackle and pop. I don't crackle and pop because I use cocoa butter, shea butter, Murray's, and Vaseline.Ade: In that order?Zach: No, I just those thick--they're thick agents. That's what I use.Ade: I just...Zach: What if I start off by saying my Favorite Thing is thick agents? People will be like, "What are you talking about?"Ade: Okay, almost every time you've said "thick" so far you've said "they're thick," "they're thick," "they're thick," and sir, I'm very concerned about--about you.Zach: Thick agents. I didn't say--I didn't say "they're thick," "they're thick," "they're thick."Ade: No, no, no. You're right. You're totally correct. I understand and [inaudible].Zach: Thick agents. Cool. So that's two. Shout out to thick agents of moisture retention. That is my second Favorite Thing, then my third Favorite Thing--my third Favorite Thing is actually going to have to go a GroupMe called Blacks In Consulting.Ade: Aye.Zach: Yeah, yeah.Ade: You keep that one in. Shout out to BIC.Zach: Shout out to BIC, which is thick with black consultants. How about that?Ade: [sighs]Zach: No?Ade: No.Zach: Okay. Well--JJ, keep it in. Keep it in. Don't take this out. [laughs] So no, really though, I love Blacks In Consulting GroupMe because it's--you know, the numbers, they wax and wane, but they are always well over 5 to 600 people, always, and it's all--it's what it is. It's black folks in consulting, and we share--we have venting sessions, we share knowledge, we share resources. It's a place of affirmation and familiarity, and so it's great. It's really exciting just to be in that space, and it was through Blacks In Consulting that I met the Living Corporate--the people that would eventually comprise the Living Corporate team, and so just shout out to them and shout out to my favorite--that's one of my Favorite Things. My Favorite Thing--so it is the GroupMe, but I guess from a conceptual level it's more about the idea of like-minded people grouping together, not to exclude others, not to rise up against other people or anything like that, but in the name of just being collaborative and practicing a certain level of community along very genuine lines, and I think, you know, it's--you know what I mean? Like, to me that's a beautiful thing. And yeah, we're in there. We'll joke and we'll have fun and stuff like that, but, like, there are genuine moments of collaboration and just affirmation. So those are my Favorite Things. Those are my Favorite Things. Okay, so--Ade: And just to add to loving on BIC real quick, it's been a space where I got career advice, I got--I mean, I got to meet you, Zach, but I also got to meet some really amazing people. I got interview advice, and I found some [inaudible] partners. Not only is it a well-rounded group, but it's super effective, and it's a really great way or it has been a really great way to meet young professionals like myself, and I'm very, very grateful for that space, and you guys should definitely look for Blacks In Consulting and other projects that's coming out of that group.Zach: Ooh, yeah. That's a good point too, yeah. We don't want to give away the sauce, but definitely. In 2019, keep your eyes peeled for Blacks In Consulting.Ade: Aye. Okay, I need--I need a new catchphrase. Dear God, I'm so tired of "aye."Zach: Well, the first step is awareness, right? So we can--we can workshop some new phrases in 2019. Like, we have plenty of time, and--Ade: No, no, no. Today. We're working new phrases today because every time I hear it come out of my mouth I'm just kind of like, "A what? B? Can you go with another letter? I don't know, Sis. Something." I'm dragging my own self over, like, verbal cues.Zach: [laughs] You've said it like 20 or 30 times this episode. It's okay.Ade: 20 or 30? Oh, my God.Zach: [laughs] Slight exaggeration there. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. So now we're gonna get into Thank Yous, thank yous. What thank yous do you have?Ade: Thank you, thank you. You're far too kind. Okay, tell me you know where that came from.Zach: You said, "Thank you, thank you. You're far too kind."Ade: Yes.Zach: Man, I'm drawing a blank. [inaudible].Ade: [gasps]Zach: You're gonna say it and I'm gonna be like, "Duh." Who? Not Jay-Z. Who?Ade: Yes, Jay-Z. Numb/Encore with Linkin Park.Zach: Okay, cool. My word. Yo. Man, first of all...Ade: [sighs] You disappoint me.Zach: No, no, no. It's crazy that you bring that up because I was just thinking about the Black Album yesterday. I was listening to an episode of The Evening Jones with Bomani Jones, and he was talking--somebody asked, like, "Is the Black Album a classic?" And I was like, "Yes."Ade: Uh, duh.Zach: Like, the Black Album dropped when I was 14. Man, let me tell you, [inaudible]--Ade: When you were how old?Zach: I was 14. I was in eighth grade, yeah.Ade: Oh, boy.Zach: And it's funny, right? Age is--age is not relative in that, like--I mean, come on. Like, they're distinct numbers, but what you think is old and young is relative to the person, right? So on The Right Time, most of the people there were, like, in their--they were older. They're, like, in their thirties and their, you know, maybe early forties, and they're talking about, "Yeah, I remember when I was in high school listening to the Black Album." "I remember when I was just graduating high school and getting into college listening to the Black Album," and [inaudible] I know I shared. I was like, "Man, I was, like, 13, 14 when the Black Album dropped." I think I was 13 actually. And everybody was like, "Dang, you were young," and then you're like, "Nah, I'm old." Like, 'cause how old were you? You were like, what, 9? 10?Ade: I plead the fifth.Zach: Yeah, you were mad young, right? So anyway--Ade: I plead the fifth.Zach: [laughs] Anyway, so yeah, we're getting to our Thank Yous. Ade, would you like to go first or would you like me to go first?Ade: You go first.Zach: Okay. So first off, a major thank you goes to my wife Candice, who was more than encouraging for me just to get all of this stuff going and getting it kicked off. Like, this was a big deal in just our home because this takes time and energy away from other things, and money of course, right? Just to kind of get things going and getting started. So definitely thank yous to her and just my family, just all the support. My mom, my parents of course, and then my mother and father-in-law for sure. Very encouraging, very supportive in everything that I do, and they're just--they're just great. Like, they're great. So that's just starting with just family and just close--and I'll throw close friends in there too. And then thank yous also go to all of the guests for season one. Like, people responded to us with such excitement to be on the show. Like, we did not have to really beg a lot of people. That was crazy to me. So thank yous to everybody that was a guest. Special shout outs to George Okpamen, who has been super supportive and just over the top--Ade: Sure has.Zach: Right? Very supportive. Amy C. Waninger, who always retweets things. Kyle Mosely. Rod with The Black Guy Who Tips. That was actually another favorite episode too, Rod with The Black Guy Who Tips. Super cool. Very White Guy. I mean, the list goes on and on, literally every single guest. J Prince too. Just people who are willing just to be on our platform and just be a part. Like, it's amazing. Other thank yous go of course to Sound Man, AKA JJ. JJ, man, please give yourself a round of applause real quick-like please.Ade: Seriously?Zach: 'Cause man, you've been just super instrumental in getting all of these things together. I mean, between the full episodes and the B-Sides and the--I mean, it's crazy. And another thank you goes to actually someone who's very behind the scenes but is super instrumental to everything we do is Aaron. So Aaron is our admin, and so, you know, someone--so someone pulled me aside one time and they were like, you know, "So where are the white guys? Where are the white guys?" Like, "Why are you excluding the white people?" So first of all, we do not exclude white people. We've had white people on Living Corporate, okay, as guests, and Aaron, who's on the team, is white. So there, okay?Ade: You just totally pulled the "we have a white friend" card, and I want you to know that I'm about 30 seconds away from laughing [inaudible].Zach: [laughing] But we don't just have a white friend. We have white friendS, right? We've got Drew.Ade: Plural.Zach: Plural. We have Drew. We have Amy. We have Aaron. Okay?Ade: Okay, I'm gonna need you to not list all of the white people who like us. Thank you.Zach: [laughs]Ade: I'm not doing this with you, sir. [laughs]Zach: Here's the thing. See, look. It's so funny, right? 'Cause I was about to get defensive and name, like, two more white people, but then it's--like, that's kind of proving your point. But no, in all seriousness, right, like, I just want to thank Aaron. He certainly is our forced diversity hire. The government, the radical left, came and made us hire somebody white, and so that's where we are. [laughs]Ade: [sighs] All right. When we get kicked off of Apple Podcasts, I will just point to this moment.Zach: You know that's what people think though. They think, like--they think, like, the government goes into companies like, "You have to hire--"Ade: Certainly.Zach: You know? It's just ridiculous. So of course we [inaudible]--Ade: But also just point to this second in time. Like, I'm not mad at it. You are spitting facts, however...Zach: The loony left! Nah, but in all seriousness, Aaron is great, and he's been doing wonderful work. And then last but not least, I want to thank the people who are still kind of, like, on the periph--who started off, like, really closely in Living Corporate but now they're kind of more so on the periphery or doing other things, and that's Latricia, Ade--I'm about to say Ade. Latricia, Ola, and Parin, and Hannah. So all of them have had, like, very critical and instrumental parts of Living Corporate and just getting started and us kind of, like, getting some frameworks recognized and developed, and we've been able to continue to move forward, so I want to thank them. And then lastly--I know I said lastly before, but lastly I want to thank Sheneisha White, and she's actually our researcher, and so you'll hear more about her in season two, but yeah. And I'm sure I've missed somebody, but I don't think so. So yeah, those are my Thank Yous.Ade: Those were great, and exhaustive, so I don't have too much more--Zach: Oh, okay. [laughs]Ade: Look. Listen, you did it. I appreciate you taking point on that because I know I would've forgotten somebody that was super integral, and then I'd feel bad for the rest of all my days, so thank you for sparing me the guilt. Personally, I would like to thank my partner, my friends, my family. I feel like I'm at an award show and I should've prepped a speech, but in lieu of that I do want to say my deep, heartfelt thanks to, you know, everybody who has supported this endeavor, everybody who has given us feedback, who has--I'm gonna shout out my friends [inaudible] and [inaudible] just championing and really supporting in ways that I didn't even expect. I didn't expect my friends--in a lot of ways, they were the very first to recognize, "Hey, this is a really dope thing, and you guys should keep doing it." Not only was that useful for us and helpful for us, but it was just empowering in ways that I don't think they know, and I hope that I'm only a quarter as good of a friend as you guys have been to me. Shout out to [inaudible] as well. Shout out to [inaudible] as well, but I really appreciate all of you, and I've gotten more than one comment about how beautiful my voice is, and I have never been so self-conscious about it before, but I really appreciate that people appreciate my voice, so there's that. Yeah. In all, I'm really grateful that the most expensive thing that you can be given is someone's time and that you guys have come back time and time again to spend your time with us and listen to what we have to say and the content that we are producing is just--it's a humbling thing, and I really appreciate all of you. And finally, I really want to thank you, Zach, because you've poured your heart and soul into this project, into this platform, and I think everyone who knows you knows the amount of time and effort that you put into this project. Up to 3:00 a.m. mornings when we're both up and we're like, "Why are you up?" "Living Corporate. Why are you up?" "Insomnia." So... [laughs]Zach: [laughs]Ade: Yeah. I just really want you to know that I've never met anybody with your work ethic, with your passion, with your drive, and your humility. All of those things are important because otherwise I don't think I'd be able to like you very much because I'd be like, "Who's this guy outperforming me? How dare you?" You've really defined leadership for me in a lot of ways, and I appreciate you.Zach: Man, first of all, thank you, Ade. Like, none of this was scripted at all so I wasn't expecting that, but I definitely appreciate it, and I appreciate you. One of these seasons we're gonna have to talk about, like, your journey, right? Like, this--like, over the past, you know, seven, eight months, and the growth that you've shown--Ade: I don't know if I can put that on a public platform. [laughs] Wait.Zach: [laughs] But no, just the growth that you've shown and the obstacles that you've overcome and the resilience that you've demonstrated, and just all of the--just the development. I mean, there's just so much there, so I'm inspired by you, and I'm excited to be here with you and to continue forward with you on and through Living Corporate. So cool, enough of that 'cause I'm not gonna cry. Let's talk about some house-cleaning and just kind of, like, what's next for Living Corporate, right? So you guys--I'm sorry, I don't want to be so hetero-normative in my language. You all should know or should be hearing this around Thanksgiving, right? So we're recording this in mid-November. You all should be hearing this on the 23rd or the weekend of the 23rd around Thanksgiving. The regularly scheduled programming of Friday Living Corporate episodes, either full episodes or B-Sides, will be on pause until early 2019, which will be sometime in mid-January or so, okay? So that's when we're gonna be coming back. We will be back in mid-January, and that's gonna be, like, our formal, full episodes. Like, that's when those will come back, but in the meantime we actually have a really exciting partnership that we want to announce for you guys, for you all.Ade: Sure do.Zach: And that's what with the Coalition of Black Excellence. So the Coalition of Black Excellence is a non-profit genuinely focused on the uplifting and professional development through networking, through education, of black professionals. They're based in California, and they have a really big, major event called CBE Week that's gonna be happening in early 2019, and so we actually have a partnership with them to really feature a lot of the speakers for that event as special co-branded, co-facilitated learning series that we will be airing through this platform, through the Living Corporate podcast, up and leading to--up and leading to CBE Week, okay? So you'll be hearing those on Mondays, okay? Those will be starting up soon. So if you heard this on a Friday, really you'll likely hear that content--the first episode for that particular learning series will be dropping that following Monday, okay? So make sure you stay tuned for that. We're really excited about that, really thankful for the opportunity to work with the Coalition of Black Excellence in this regard, and we actually have even more content that we're gonna share with you around the CBE Week as it gets closer, but we're gonna hold some of those jewels back for ourselves. So we're excited about that for sure.Ade: Definitely.Zach: What else, Ade, housekeeping-wise? What else do we need to talk about?Ade: While we're gone, please keep sending us your letters if you want to vent, if you want to write, if you want to ask questions. We're on hiatus, but we can certainly--maybe get on Live and answer a couple questions.Zach: Ooh, that's a--what a good idea, yeah. I agree with that. No, we should definitely do that. That's a great idea.Ade: Thanks.Zach: Yeah, and then also--listen. Now, look, I'm not gonna share all of the--all of our download data 'cause I don't--you know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to give away the sauce, but look, we have thousands--we have thousands upon thousands of downloads every month, right? And I share this to say I need y'all to give us five stars on iTunes, okay? Please. That would be a great holiday gift for us. Give us five stars. Like, right now I think we're around, like, 115 or so. I need to check again. I know that, like, they come in kind of in delays, but let's see if we can get to 200 before January. Can we do that? Can y'all get on and just give us five stars real fast? It don't take too much time, and I know y'all not some haters 'cause y'all listen to the show. Like, there's plenty of people--thousands of people listen to the show every month, so just go ahead and do that for us. The last thing is to make sure that you run back some episodes. I know that we publish on a weekly clip, and some people have commented like, "Man, y'all are really putting out a lot of content. It's hard for me to keep up." Like, thankfully it's a podcast, so you don't have to even quote-unquote keep up. Now you can just go back and listen to 'em. You have a little bit of a break. So make sure you check out some episodes if you missed anything. We have some really great content, really proud of it, and yeah. Okay. Well, if that's it--Ade, is there anything else you're thinking about?Ade: As y'all go into the holidays, I hope that you have a peaceful, blessed time. If you get to spend your time with your loved ones, I hope that you hold them close, you hold them tight, you have wonderful, wonderful memories--you make wonderful, wonderful memories, and if you are not around your loved ones or your chosen family, if you have to spend time in uncomfortable spaces in this holiday period, I pray for peace for you as well. I pray for ease for you as well, and, you know, make sure that you prioritize your mental health. The downside to a lot of the holidays is that you're sometimes surrounded by people who trigger you, people who put you in unhealthy situations, and I want you all to choose yourselves first. Take time off work because those people will replace you in a heartbeat if necessary. So as important as it is to build your brand, build yourself, like we were saying earlier, make sure you make time, you make space for healthy habits. I think that's all I have to say. Oh, see y'all next year. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] All right, y'all. Well, yeah, so we definitely will. And, man, echoing everything you just said, Ade. That's dope. That's super agreed. Hit us with the wisdom. I'm over here trying to rush out the door. Yeah. So you will hear other Living Corporate content, but as far as the Living Corporate regular season goes, you will hear us as a duo next year. So with that being said, you've been listening to Living Corporate. My name is Zach.Ade: I'm Ade.Zach and Ade: Peace.Zach: [scat singing]Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down with Mentor + Mentees Founder, public speaker, entrepreneur, community leader, social influencer and Living Corporate ambassador Tim Salau again to talk about his journey in landing amazing jobs and his perspective on the gig economy.TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and you're listening to a B-Side. We've introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but everyone's episode is someone's first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are random shows we have in-between our larger shows. These are less structured and somehow even more lit--that's right, even more lit--than our regularly scheduled shows. You don't believe me? Sound Man, I want you to go ahead and drop the air horns right HERE.[Sound Man complies]Zach: Okay, now listen. These B-Sides, we switch 'em up, y'all. Right? Sometimes we have a host conversation between myself and Latricia or Ade and Ola or Ola and Latricia. You get the point. Sometimes they're monologues just with your boy or with Latricia or one of the hosts, and then sometimes they're one-on-one interviews. And you can probably hear our guest laughing in the background, because we have such a guest and such an interview today. In fact, the only person to make two appearances in the same season, Tim Salau. [Sound Man throws in the cheers]Tim: I'm here. I'm here, man.Zach: Tim, what's going on, man? How you doin'?Tim: I'm doing well, man. I'm doing well. Thank you for having me again.Zach: No, no, no. Thank you for being here again. Now, look. For those who don't know you or didn't meet you the first time, I'm gonna ask you a few rapid-fire questions for the audience so they can kind of get to know you or get to re-know you. Are you ready?Tim: I'm ready.Zach: Okay. Where are you from and what degree did you graduate with, undergrad and grad school?Tim: I am from Houston, Texas. I graduated with a psychology degree from Texas Tech University and a Master's in Information Studies at the University of Texas in Austin.Zach: How many LinkedIn certifications do you have?Tim: I have over 200+ probably. [laughs]Zach: And what is your tech area of expertise?Tim: And my tech area of expertise is in artificial intelligence and user experience design.Zach: What are your primary initiatives these days?Tim: Primary initiatives is growing the Mentors and Mentees community and creating content that can help people in their career paths.Zach: What companies have you worked for in the past five years?Tim: I've worked for Facebook, Google, will be working for Microsoft. I've worked for the University of Texas in Austin, and I've worked for Living Corporate as a brand ambassador too. So I've worked for a lot of different companies. Oh, and Waze Carpool. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] Okay. Now, folks, y'all heard those companies that he name-dropped, right? Tim, how did you land those gigs?Tim: Honestly the hustle, really putting myself in the right position and being proactive in who I reached out to and sharing my value as much as possible, even when people ain't looking.Zach: So today we're talking about landing the job of your dreams. Now, Tim, what are some myths around getting a job that young people and definitely minorities need to understand?Tim: #1 myth I think I often see and see people follow is "I've just got to apply and I've got to chill." Not at all. You can--like, putting your application through an application tracking system and just expecting something to happen for you [isn't how?] you go about it now. Now you have to have a presence. You actually have to have a marketing strategy, some sort of approach in how you get your next job, which requires you to have an online profile, whether it be on LinkedIn or whatever profile, whatever online channel that aligns the next position you want to get, and then also offline networking, right? So really that myth that you just apply and you wait, and you apply to multiple companies and wait, are kind of like just shoot and pray. That's a myth. That's the #1 myth I've seen.Zach: So you've had multiple amazing jobs. [laughs] My question here is why did you leave any of them? Like, what was the--what was the reason for transitioning from one to the other and, you know, what is your long-term goal?Tim: So I'm a gig worker, and I'm glad you asked that because I think there needs to be more visibility on what gig work looks like. A lot of the work I've done in the past has been either from a partnership standpoint, and really the reason I've left is that, you know, whether it be the internships I've had or, you know, kind of like looking for a new opportunity to grow my skills and my perspective, but just kind of in search of understanding how I can go grow my skills to be the best community builder I can be. So I usually tell people I'm a full-time community builder, but, you know, I have skills and expertise in a lot of other different verticals, but my long-term mission is to be in a position to build communities. And, you know, that doesn't really--you know, I already have the title that I want. It's not to be a CEO or something like that. I'm, you know, kind of executing on what I want to practice every single day, but in order to do that I have to have a collective, you know, breadth of experiences that allow me to build a skill set, and being in front of the right people that will kind of, like, fire my vision, right? So, I mean, I've had a lot of great experiences, a lot of great jobs, but it's been a matter of, like, growth. Finding opportunities to grow in a new area and kind of, like, start puzzle pieces together on where I want my future to be like. Zach: See, what's interesting about this and what energizes me about your career story is it's like you have this ultimate mission that you're driving towards, and the brands and things that are associated with you driving towards your mission are just that, they're associations tied to this mission that you have. So talk to us a little bit more about being a gig worker and really how you see that playing a part in the future of how we all do work, right? Because I do believe, right, that the era of me saying, "Well, I work at Insert Company Here, and that's what I do. I do X," and you do that for 10, 20 years, whatever, that those days are coming to a close, right? I think that your approach on how you're one structuring your career and how you're navigating these spaces is really gonna be a larger framework for how millennials and Gen Y, how we work. So can you talk to us a little bit more about what you mean by being a gig worker, what you mean by, you know, being a community builder, and how that mentally helps you navigate these spaces?Tim: I love what you mentioned. So being a gig worker, I think there's a huge misconception around what a gig worker is. A lot of people think it has to do with freelance work or freelancers, but really it's a matter of--honestly, man, the way I put it is, like, you a hustler, right? I grew up in an environment where, you know, my dad was working multiple jobs. My mom was working multiple jobs. The people that we--the neighborhoods that we lived in, there--you know, there were families there, and the dad and the mom were working multiple jobs. So it's like this really had me--but understanding that, you know, you're working to survive, but at the same time being a gig worker is a matter of, like, choosing what your career path looks like but aligning it to the purpose, in terms of, like, the purpose of why you exist, of why you want to work for a living, and I think for me it's really a matter of having people understand that gig work isn't just a manner of contractual work, but it's understanding what are the opportunities I can pick up, paid or unpaid, that will strengthen my career, right? That will allow me to build skills in verticals, whether it be to become more technical or to build my social aptitude or my emotional intelligence, and see how that aligns to what your end goal is. So for me I actually don't have an end goal, and that usually surprises people because I tell people I have a purpose. So my purpose is the fact that I want to strengthen the bonds that people share with compassion and empathic action. In terms of the position I claim and I usually want people to kind of see me as is that I'm a community builder. So I put myself in positions to strengthen bonds, right? Whether it be hosting an event, me organizing a function, me creating a community or me educating someone. I do that actively. Now, I'm not necessarily always thinking about ways to get paid doing this. I'm thinking about ways to put myself in the position to follow my purpose. So when it comes to goals and long-term achievements, that might change, right? I can't say I'm gonna do this by 2025. The world is gonna be really, really different by 2025, right? Like, a lot of things are gonna change. So I can't necessarily say this is gonna be my exact goal. I think a lot of people do that, but for me it's easier to kind of follow my purpose, being a gig worker, and seeing how I can pick the opportunities, the jobs, the roles that allow me to kind of further my purpose. So where I see the modern workforce going is that a lot of people are gonna start doing more purposeful work, and it's due to the fact that it's so accessible now to start your business, to start your own initiative, to partner up, right? To really use the technical tools at your disposal, to really say, "Okay, I want to do this. How do I do this," right? "And how do I find the people that will help me do this?" But better yet, how do I build the skills, right? If education is more accessible, you know, the ability for Gen Z millennials or people who are currently in the workforce right now to say, "I want to learn this so I can create this," whether it be for the people that I want to serve, will only continue to get easier. So I expect that, you know, this is gonna be a cultural pattern, and we're already seeing it, right? You have young influencers who haven't even, you know, reached the workforce yet who are creating presence, right? They have their own brand. They're working with large brands such as Louis Vuitton, Microsoft, who are doing all these great things, and their entire business is on social media. They don't even have a--they've never seen a corporate office in their life. They're selling e-courses. They're using their presence to commoditize, you know, who they are and whatever their purpose is in, you know, the community that they serve. So this trend is--I mean, it's all part of this whole notion of the digital transformation that we've seen happening in every sector, and especially from a consumer end as well.Zach: So it's so funny, right, because--the reason I'm at a pause is because, you know, the topic of this show that we're doing a B-Side on was around landing the job of your dreams, right? But the conversation we're having right now, I think having the premise of landing a job of your dreams--you know, if you try to find the job of your dreams, dreams and goals change all the time, but your purpose doesn't necessarily--doesn't change. Isn't as fluid, right? Your purpose is something that is fairly solid because your purpose is who you are, right? So it doesn't mean that--again, that doesn't mean that your purpose won't shift. It might change, but the degree by which your purpose changes and the degree by which your dream job changes are completely different.Tim: Absolutely, and I think it's a matter of creating the job of your dreams.Zach: Hm. You know what? I think that's gonna be the title of this B-Side, Creating the Job of Your Dreams. I like that. [laughs]Tim: [laughs] Creating the job of your dreams. Zach: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, straight up. This is good. Okay, look. Tim, this has been a great conversation, man. Before we get out of here, any shout outs you have? Any parting words?Tim: I want to shout out to the Mentors and Mentees community. Shout out Living Corporate. You all are doing great things, man. The resources y'all are providing for people who are coming into Corporate America, who have been in Corporate America or who are trying to exit Corporate America is magnificent. Keep doing what y'all are doing.Zach: Man, I appreciate that. Now, look, that does it for us, folks. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been talking with Tim Salau. Peace.Tim: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We have the pleasure of sitting down with career coach and resume writer Tristan Layfield to discuss what goes into landing the job of your dreams and how to achieve that goal.Find out more about Tristan here: https://layfieldresume.com/about/Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTAde: Hey, y'all. It's Ade.Zach: And it's Zach.Ade: And you're listening to Living Corporate. So Zach...Zach: What's up?Ade: So we have another B-Side, but this is the last full episode before our Wrap Up episode this month. Zach: Sheesh, already?Ade: Yeah, man. It's been such a wild ride. Can you believe it's only been seven months since we got started? In that very, very short time, we've had some dope conversations, some amazing guests, and more than a few funny moments.Zach: [laughing] For sure, but you know what? We'll talk all about that in our Season Wrap Up episode in a couple weeks.Ade: We sure are.Zach: That's right, but today, we're gonna talk about landing the job of your dreams.Ade: The job of your dreams? That reminds me of that lottery that got over a billion dollars.Zach: A billion dollars. Oh, yeah. What would you do if you had all that money?Ade: Who are you kidding? I wouldn't do just one thing. I would open a restaurant, travel the world, open free clinics and schools all around the world. Pretty much whatever my heart could possibly desire. I think that's the definition of a dream job, something that you would do if money wasn't a concern. What's your dream job?Zach: So I have to start with my passion, right? So my passion is people and creating platforms that amplify the voices and experiences of underrepresented people, so a lot of really what Living Corporate is doing. So my dream job would have to heavily involve Living Corporate for sure.Ade: Ayyyy. You know, it would be great if we could talk to someone like a career coach, but not just any career coach. Maybe a public speaker, someone with professional resume writing experience, an educator. Someone who's been featured in a variety of publications. Let's throw maybe black enterprise in there, and maybe he focuses his work on underrepresented people, especially millennials worldwide but also around his hometown of Detroit, Michigan.Zach: Hm. Oh, wait. You mean like our guest Tristan Layfield?Ade and Zach: Whaaaaat?Zach: *imitating air horns* Look--Sound Man, look. We are so many episodes in. Go ahead and give me those air horns right HERE.[Sound Man complies]Ade: Yeah, shout out to J.J.Zach: [laughing] Shout out to J.J., hey, A.K.A. Sound Man. We'll talk about that more too. [laughing] Anyway, so next what we're gonna do is get into our interview with our guest, Tristan Layfield. Hope you all enjoy. And we're back. And as we said before the break, we have Tristan Layfield on the show. Tristan, welcome to the show, man. How you doin'?Tristan: Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm doing well. It's a little rainy here today, but I'm feeling good.Zach: Hey, man, I hear you. For those of us who don't know you though, tell us a little bit about yourself.Tristan: Yeah. So like you said, my name is Tristan Layfield. I'm based in the Metro Detroit area, and I'm a career coach and resume writer that approaches career development with my clients by combining their personal branding with their career field through strategic coaching, the development of resumes, cover letters and LinkedIn profiles that really help my clients stand out. Zach: So today we're talking about landing the job of your dreams. That kind of assumes though that you know what your dreams are. What advice do you have for professionals who really don't know what they want, and how do they find that out?Tristan: Yeah, that's a really good question, and I think this is a problem that plagues a lot of us. And first, I think it's having an understanding of what you really want to do, and when I say that, I don't mean the thing that everyone has been telling you that you should do since you were young but the thing that you actually like, right? So I've noticed in talking with a lot of my clients and a lot of people I work with that we've been forced to pick what we wanted to do or wanted to be since we were young, and then most of us go to college where we're forced to pick a major well before we even know what we're interested in. So then we graduate with everybody else's dreams on us instead of focusing on our own. I always suggest the way to get out of that is to sort of start by doing what I call an interest alignment activity. So essentially, you make four different lists, and the first one is you list things that are high-skill for you and high-interest, meaning those are skills that you're good at and skills that you like to do. The second list is high-skill and low-interest. So those are skills that you're good at, but you really just don't like to do. And these are the things that cause burnout, right? And then the third list is low-skill, low-interest. These are the things you want to work on or develop. You're very interested in doing those things. And then the last one is low-skill and low-interest, and these are red flag areas. These are things that you don't enjoy and you're not good at, right? So once you make those lists, from there you're able to utilize those skills in that first and third section to build what your ideal job description would be, and you're also able to identify jobs that are heavy in the things that you listed in the second and fourth sections because you'll be able to better identify those roles that aren't a good fit for you because they are, you know, those skills that you're not interested in or those skills that you just really aren't good at and have no interest in overall. So, you know, doing that type of exercise gives you a baseline upon which you're able to assess all of the jobs you're looking at to understand that the position may be a fit for you and your expertise. So that's one of the things that I suggest to really try to narrow down the jobs that you're looking at, is to have something to compare it to, and that's how I sort of get to it with my clients.Zach: So does a--let me ask you this. Does a dream job mean a permanent job? Are dreams allowed to change?Tristan: [laughing] Yeah, that's a great question. So dream jobs can mean a permanent job for some people, but more often than not that's not always the case, because typically, as we grow and change as people, what we want, or our dream or our vision of things, typically changes over time. So to simply answer your question, "Are dreams allowed to change," yes, dreams are allowed to change, and I actually recently was working with a client who grew up knowing that she wanted to be a lawyer. And she went to law school, and she had been practicing law for over 20 years, but recently realized that she wanted to make a pivot into the non-profit sector as she had been working--doing a little bit of that work. So she found out that she loved it, and she came to me to figure out how to pivot her career, right? This woman's been in her career for well over 20 years, and now her dream has changed, and I see that very often, and I see that as a common thing, simply because, like I said earlier, we typically leave college or leave school with other people's dreams on us. Typically that's what we're trying to fulfill. We're not trying to fulfill our own dreams, right? So yeah, I definitely think they're allowed to change. Does it mean a permanent job? It can, and sometimes it runs its course. It was fun. You got the skills you needed, and now you need to move on.Zach: So, you know, I talk to people, especially, like, millennial professionals, and there's kind of, like, this divide, right? So there's a large contingency of us who will say, "Look, man. You've got to figure out where you just need to figure out where you stay and you can get locked in so you can get promoted, you can grow, you can climb the ladder," so and so forth. There's another group of people--and I probably fall more in this camp--of, like, "Look, man. You've got to kind of keep it moving," right? Like, "You need to figure out," you know, every three, four, every really 18, 24 months, you need to really be doing a hard assessment of, like, where you're at and if you need to make some transitions, either internally or externally or whatever the case may be. Where would you draw the line in-between looking for a genuine change and just being fickle or indecisive?Tristan: You know, I think it really depends on you as a person. Like you just said, there's sort of two different camps of people, the people who want to get into a company and want to be loyal to that company and move up through that company, and then there's the people who, unfortunately like many of us millennials, we sort of came out--we came out of school in a recession period, right? There weren't a lot of jobs, this that and the other, so we really had a foot--we were a foot behind everyone when it came to jobs or pay or whatever the case may be, and that has required us to sort of go on what I call a get rich quick scheme, you know? We're trying to catch up with everybody, and sometimes that requires us to move every two years to get that 10% raise in pay or whatever the case may be. So I think it is--it really depends on the person, but for me, where I think--excuse me, where I draw the line between genuine change and just being fickle and indecisive is when you're switching jobs or industries very frequently, like every one to two years, without actually sitting down and conducting a thorough analysis of why you're doing it, right? Most people who are looking for genuine change take the time to think through where they want to go and what they want to do or why this situation is not working for them, and they also provide enough time for them to get into the new area and learn and apply those things that they learn to practice. And that takes time, and sometimes that period can be difficult simply because you're learning and adjusting, and that is where people who are fickle or indecisive tend to jump ship, right? Change isn't easy, and those who are genuinely seeking it tend to understand that this is a process, and those who aren't genuinely seeking it or just being fickle and indecisive are just moving because of one little thing, you know, rubbed them the wrong way. Most of the time.Zach: Okay. So let me ask you this. I'm thinking through this as you're giving me this answer. If you had to give millennials and just working professionals of color advice when it comes to career navigation and finding what's going on for you--what would you say are some of the main challenges that you see with people that look like us when it comes to career navigation and finding that sweet spot for us?Tristan: Ooh, that is a loaded question. Right? [laughs] Well, first, I think--I think we all need to sit down and assess what we're really interested in and what we want to do. We have to make peace with the fact that what we had majored in in college may not be what we actually end up doing in life, and that is okay, and you have to realize that the majority of people are in that place. And then once you get into a place where you do like it, you need to understand sort of what the--what the pathway forward is inside of that company or inside of this industry, right? What are the next steps? How do you get there? What skills do you currently have, and what skills are you missing? And you identify those through a skills gap analysis, and sometimes you can identify, "Okay, this company is gonna allow me to get this skill set, but they don't have anything that's gonna allow me to get this other skill set to get to that ultimate position that I want to be in." So sometimes that means, you know, switching jobs, switching companies, switching industries to get that other skill set, and I think we have to be open about that and open and honest with ourselves that, you know, it's gonna be a process. It takes time. It takes dedication and, you know, no one really becomes successful without actually sitting down and putting in the work to figure out where they want to go, and often times what I find is we try to do all of that alone, and unfortunately that's not always everyone's zone of genius. So reach out and get help, whether that be me, like, a career coach and resume writer, or whether that be a friend that you see in the field doing the work, you know, talking to them, or whether that be getting informational interviews. You really have to be your biggest advocate in your own career search, and I think that's one of the biggest things I think people struggle with, is being their own advocate, and it's typically because they haven't done the work to figure out what they're actually interested in and how to actually attain it.Zach: That's a great last point too around being your own advocate. We just recently had Deborah Owens, who is the CEO of Corporate Alley Cat, and we had a whole episode around self-advocacy and strategic networking, and that was a main point too. So that was more from the context of navigating internally for the sake of your career, but your point also resonates because regardless if you're looking--irrespective of if you're looking for a change internally or you're looking for a change externally, you have to be your biggest advocate. Like, no one's gonna care more about you than you.Tristan: You have to be your own biggest advocate. No one knows your experience better than you, no one knows where your expertise lies better than you, and no one knows what you are able to actually go in and do and learn and put on the table, and so sometimes you just really need to show people that, and you really need to exemplify that, and the only way you're gonna do it is if you advocate for yourself.Zach: Absolutely. Well, look, this has been great, Tristan. Before we let you go, where can people learn more about you and your company? Tristan: Yeah, this has been amazing, and I appreciate it. People can check us out at my website, which is www.layfieldresume.com, and for those of you guys who don't know how to spell it, it's L-A-Y-F as in Frank-I-E-L-D-R-E-S-U-M-E dot com, or you can follow me on Instagram @LayfieldResume or connect with me on LinkedIn at TristanLayfield. Zach: Awesome, man. You know we'll make sure to have all of that information in our show notes so they can--our audience can check it out. Any parting words or shout outs before we let you go?Tristan: Yeah. You know, I just want to shout out my tribe. I always like to shout them out. My friends, my best friend, you know, my grandma. Everybody who's been supporting me along this journey, I just really appreciate them. I just want to thank you so much, Zach, for having me on the show. The conversations you're having are just so important for us to be discussing, and I'm just glad to be a part of it.Zach: Man, I'm honored by that. And you know what? Shout out to the word tribe. I gotta start using this word, man. [laughing]Tristan: [laughing] It takes a village, okay?Zach: It takes a village, man. Listen, man. I'm noticing--I'm noticing, man, all of my melanated working professionals who are building things are using this language, tribe. I've heard that from Deun Ivory. I've heard that from--I've just heard that from a few different guests. Tye Miles said it. Okay, anyway. Now I'm on a tangent. [laughs] Tristan, it's been a pleasure. God bless. This has been a great time. Hope to have you back, and appreciate your time, man. Tristan: I appreciate you having me on, man. Have a great one.Zach: Peace. Ade: Yo, we're back. Bomb interview as always, Zach. Excited that we were able to get Tristan on the show, and listening to that discussion reminds me that your resume is only one part of your journey in landing a dream job and that your dreams sometimes change, and that's okay too.Zach: For sure. Now, look, I have some bad news for y'all.Ade: No!Zach: No Fave Things this week, but that doesn't mean you can't check out our Fave Things on our website, right?Ade: [makes the "womp-womp" sound] I'm really nailing our sound effects today.Zach: You're doing a great job with the sound effects actually today. In fact, Sound Man, go ahead and drop, like, a small round of applause for Ade for her sound effects today. She came in very strongly on the "whaaaat?" Actually it wasn't raspy at all.[Sound Man complies]Ade: Ayy. Sir, are you coming for me?Zach: Then the womp-womp was very full, so it was good.Ade: Thank you.Zach: No, it was good. But no, really, our Favorite Things section, we've called out--the books, all of the books that we've talked about on the show, they're on that list. DeRay Mckesson's book, J Prince's book, Amy Waninger's book. They're all on this list of Favorite Things. You can go check out some of our favorite foods. I've got the Capital City Mambo Sauce on there. That's right, Capital City--this is not a paid ad. Capital City Mambo Sauce is fire. I ordered two gallons of the sauce about six months ago.Ade: [laughing] You are ridiculous.Zach: [laughing] But anyway, no Favorite Things this week. However, in a couple weeks when we do our Season 1 Wrap Up show, it's gonna essentially be all of this. It's gonna be me and Ade just talking, having a good time, and we'll talk about a variety of Favorite Things, from our favorite episodes to our favorite things on our list, and we'll actually make one last season update to our Favorite Things list, okay?Ade: Yep.Zach: Okay? So there's that, there's that. But we will have it back. Ade: Okay. Well, that is our show. Thank you so much for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Please make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. Also, don't forget to check out our Patreon at LivingCorporate as well.Zach: That does it for us on this show. This has been Zach.Ade: And I'm Ade.Zach and Ade: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down and talk about Black Texas Magazine with Founder, Editor & Chief Nickholas Bailey.Learn about Black Texas Magazine here:https://www.blacktexasmag.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to a B-Side. Now, yes, we've introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but remember, every episode is what? That's right, somebody's first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially random shows that we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow--that's right, you even guessed it--it's more lit. That's right. So there's lit. This is more lit than our regularly scheduled shows. Sometimes they're discussions that the hosts have. Sometimes they're extended monologues from just one particular host like myself or Ola or Latricia or Ade, or sometimes, yes, maybe even sometimes, maybe even most times, they're a special chat with a special guest. Today, we have a special guest - Nickholas Bailey. Nick Bailey is the editor-in-chief of Black Texas Magazine, a media outlet that is dedicated to enriching the lives of people of color across the state and beyond by connecting on a personal level through a passion for leading fulfilling lives. Welcome to the show, man. How you doin'?Nick: I'm doing well, how are you?Zach: I'm doing good, man. Look, let's talk about Black Texas Magazine. Where did it start, why the name, and what are y'all trying to achieve?Nick: Well, Black Texas started kind of as a jumping point for me because prior to this, or about--oh, I guess about a year prior to this I was the online editor for a publication called Texas Lifestyle Magazine. Great publication. They've done a lot of great stuff, but as I--as I got further into it, I started to recognize that there was a disconnect between my perspective and the perspective that they were--that they were creating. You know, like, I live a very different lifestyle than the people that they target, you know? I'm not accustomed to paying $300 for a charcuterie board or paying, you know, $1,000 for, you know, a grill set. It just wasn't really my--it wasn't really my thing, and I was pushing for some more relatable content for the average Texan, and it just wasn't--there was a disconnect there, and so after a lot of thinking and a lot of planning I decided to make the jump and create a publication for black people that was essentially the same thing in some ways. Like, I don't want to say that we just copied and pasted the formula because, you know, unfortunately I created a lot of the formula for Texas Lifestyle once I came on, but I would say that our goal is to enrich the life of black Texans and really Texans of all colors by exposing them to new brands, new opportunities, and new experiences that they may not have previously known about or they may not have previously felt like were open to them, you know? So I know for a lot of--for a lot of black people in the community, we--we almost self-segregate with a lot of things, you know? We look at things as, "Oh, that's white people stuff. We don't really--we don't really mess with that," whether it be, you know, simple stuff or the wild stuff like bungee jumping or skydiving, which I'm still kind of on the fence on. Like, they might be able to keep those. [laughs] But even things like, you know, eating at different restaurants or trying different festivals and experiences. Just really making it more palatable for--you know, for the black community, because there are plenty of people in the black community that say, "Hey, I want to live life. I've only got one life. I want to enjoy it while I'm here," and finding the opportunities for them that will enhance their lives is really the big overarching goal for us, but also highlighting the black businesses that are trying that as well along the way.Zach: So it's interesting, right? So I looked at the platform, and, you know, I think what I was taken most aback by was the amount of content, right? Like, you guys--it seems like you guys are publishing something every single day, and so talk to me a little bit about y'all’s challenges in getting this started up and, you know, what goes into managing a digital magazine. How do you juggle--it seems that there's a lot of hats to juggle. It seems that there's a lot of things to do, and I understand that you're also working full-time still.Nick: Yes.Zach: So how do you manage all of that?Nick: I manage that with a lot of stress--a lot of stress, not a lot of sleep, and an overdose of patience, because we do have a small team. We're always looking--like, we're always looking for new writers to bring on-board, but right now we do have a small team, and it's really just a matter of balancing everyone's talents and abilities. Like, for the time being I take on the burden--I take on the bulk of the burden by handling a lot of the administrative tasks. So, like, making sure that content is up on the website, proofreading the content, gathering all of the materials. So that might be, like, getting the photos in order, sorting it--like, sorting our files and documents online. So I do a lot of that stuff, and so I have the writers, and I say, "Hey, I want you to focus on writing," and the plan that I have right now is really to kind of spread that load across--across the team so no one person is having to do all of the writing. 'Cause everybody--like, to my knowledge, everybody else is working full-time somewhere as well. So what I would rather them do is each person write, you know, one or two things a month, and we could be able to keep a steady flow than expecting one person to churn out, you know, a new article every week, you know? And with balancing it with working--like, I work full-time, and for me it's kind of difficult 'cause I work 12-hour shifts. So a lot of my work is done--I guess done at night, so I'm usually up until about 1:00 in the morning making sure that content is looking good, there's no errors and we're gonna be good to go.Zach: So I have another question as a follow-up, right, really to the title of Black Texas Magazine. Has anyone run up on you with, "If we had a White Texas Magazine, that would be racist?"Nick: Not that directly, but it's been one of those side--like, side-swiped questions. Like, "Hm, why is it just for black people?" And kind of insinuating that, and to that I would say, to be honest, most of the public--like, most of the Texas-based publications we have are catered to a white audience. And, you know, I'm not opposed to--I'm not opposed to acknowledging that it may seem--it may come off as a bit contentious to say, "This is a publication for black people," you know, but at the same time it's never been a situation of, you know, "No whites allowed," you know? We've had--we've had white contributors to our publication. We have a lot of white readers. We have readers all over the world, and most of those aren't, you know, nations of color. And so I would say if they want--if they asked the question or they posed the question or the statement "If we had a White Texas Magazine, that'd be racist," I would tell them, "Well, let's go read Texas Highways. Let's go read Texas Monthly. Let's go read Texas Lifestyle." The list could go on. Most publications are catering to a white audience. Like, they may not be as blatant as to say it, but it's one of those--I would say it's one of those underlying things of once you see the subject matter you--there are ways of siphoning out certain groups by the content.Zach: Right. And, you know, it's funny because I think it's easy to forget that white is the default, right? Like, it's--like, you don't have to call something for it to be--the majority of the country is white, so most of the content out there in any type of media is largely going to be white, right? So you don't have to call--I don't have to call something white, something anything, but you do call things--you know, if there is other underrepresented groups, black, XYZ, or Asian-this or Latin-X or Hispanic-this because we're trying to highlight the fact that this is not the default, right? It's not what you immediately consider when you think about whatever audience or population that you're gonna be engaging. Okay, so let me ask you this. You know, you guys landed J Prince recently, [inaudible] J Prince, but how did that happen for you guys? Like, how did it work, and what was that experience like?Nick: For me, honestly, it was an amazing experience. I lucked into it because I got--I got an email from the city of Austin about an event that they were co-hosting. It was just an evening with J Prince where he was just hearing Austin talking about his life, and I went, and I was like--I didn't know what to expect, and I was just like, "Man, I just want to see this guy in person, see, you know, really what he's about and just kind of, you know, measure him up instead of just looking through a screen," and it was a cool event. The event went off really well, and at the end there was a line to, like, you know, take a picture with him and stuff, and I was like, "Okay, cool." You know, "I don't mind getting a picture with J Prince. That'd be kinda cool," and so I get in line, and as always they're trying to sell the book or sell merchandise and stuff like that, and just out of, you know, the spur of the moment I'm like, "I'll buy the book," and so I get the book, and when it's my turn he autographs the book and everything, and I ask him a question, and the question I asked him is, you know, "Hey--" Like, he talks about--he talked a lot about, you know, replacing IGs with OGs in terms of, you know, getting off of social media and really linking up with people that have done what we do before us and really gaining some knowledge from them, especially, like, in different entertainment avenues. A lot of the OGs that we came up with came up through nefarious ways, you know? They sold drugs, they robbed people. They committed crimes to get the assets that they needed, and so I asked him, you know, "How can we look up to these OGs and get advice from them when we're at a age where we don't want to take those penitentiary chances to make it into the industry?" And I think it kind of--it kind of put him on the spot, and he stopped and he said, "You know what? Talk to me after the show."Zach: You asked him--you asked him that in front of a bunch of people?Nick: No, it was--like, it was a one-on-one thing. I asked him, like, face-to-face, maybe two feet away from him.Zach: Oh, my gosh. Well, shout out to you for asking J Prince such a very pointed question to his face.Nick: You can't get the answers you don't ask for.Zach: [laughs] That's a good point.Nick: You know? 'Cause I would love to be in different indust--like, involved in different industries, but I don't wanna have to go sell coke to get the money for it.Zach: Straight up, yeah.Nick: But at the same time, trying to save money from a regular 9-to-5 is a very slow process.Zach: And this is the thing I think people forget, like, man, the blessing of an--you cannot, you cannot undervalue initial capital, man. Like--so you know, like, even when you talk about Jay-Z's album, the last album he dropped right, and he was talking about how I flipped this, and it's like, "Well, Jay-Z, man, you started off with, like, 400 racks. You had $400,000 from the coke game, so you say." So it's like, "Okay, yeah." If you--if you gave a very ambitious, you know, entrepreneurial person of color $400,000, man, that's gonna--yeah, they could flip that into something too. I'm not saying--they might not flip it into a billion, but they can flip it into something because they have the initial capital. So to your point, like, how--that just was such a good question because, like, okay, I'ma talk--if I talked to Jay-Z for an hour, people would say, "I'd love to talk to Jay-Z for an hour 'cause then I would learn how to be a billionaire." It's like, "Well, Jay-Z's gonna be like, "Well, I had initial capital of $400,000 because I sold drugs, and it was tax free. So I basically started with a 400--" Like, most black people don't have seed money, hundred thousand dollar seed money. They have a little bit of change here and there that they scrounge up, like you said. Like, that they hold over from their full-time job after paying off this and paying off that and whatever debt they have, and they have, you know, a little bit of change, not enough money to build an empire. You know what I'm saying?Nick: Absolutely, and that was--and after listening to Jay-Z's album, that was one of the things that I kind of left with. I was like, you know, "He talks a lot about, you know, these amazing ways to do better," and it's one of those things of "If you knew better, you'd do better." And that's cool. Like, I would love to buy a piece of art that's worth, you know, 1 million, hold it until it's worth 2 million, sell it when it's worth 10 million. That's cool. I would love to be able to give that to my children, but I gotta get that first million.Zach: Right. [laughs]Nick: It's easy--it's easy to compound wealth once you have it, and a lot of rappers talk about that part, but they don't really tell us how we can get the money, how we can get started without selling drugs, without robbing people. That's--like, that's the link they never give us, and I think that unfortunately that's because a lot of them don't have the answer for that, aside from "Sell drugs. Rob people." And that's an unfortunate truth. Like, I get it, that's the environment they came up in, but if we're trying to do better now we need new lessons.Zach: Right, right. So let me ask--let me ask you this. What advice would you have for black and brown folks trying to get, you know, multi-effort ventures off of the ground? So you have a full-time job. You've launched a magazine. It takes multiple hands, driving it and grinding it. It clearly--like you said earlier, it's stress. It's late nights. What are you--what advice would you have for folks who look like us trying to do similar things?Nick: The strongest advice I would give is work together. In college I ran a midterm program, and one of the things I taught was the idea of collective development. You know, especially if you're starting off with little to no capital. You're--like, you're working at a point where you're not getting paid. You need to find a team of people who are willing to work with you to build something up that benefits everybody, you know? Like, Black Texas isn't just me. It's not the Nick Bailey show, you know? My byline comes up very little. For me, I look at it as a plat--as I'm creating a platform to advance the careers of other people, you know? Because as we gain our audience and as we, you know, get that brand retention, that brand recognition, people start coming to the website looking for other people. They're not looking for me, you know? They're looking to see, "Oh, let's see what's up with these movie reviews. Let's see what's up with these fashion tips. Let's see what's up with these house-keeping tips." You know, "What events are coming up?" I want--I want people looking for the thoughts and ideas of other people, and for me in my particular situation I can say, "Hey, I can't pay you to write right now, but what I can give you is an opportunity to grow your name," because not everybody has the money to start up a website, you know? Even the cheapest websites that aren't free aren't cheap. Once you get past the, you know, this is BrandXYZ.WordPress.com and you get to just Brand.com, it becomes a different--a different financial burden, and not everybody--not everybody is willing to take that risk, and I've gotten to a point where I took that risk to--ideally to make it easier for other people. So I would say, you know, one, be willing to work together. Understand the vision. Don't just work for anybody, but understand the vision. Understand what it means for you personally and how it's going to benefit you personally, and then you give it your all, you know? Like, that's the truest thing that I can tell anyone, and also set ego aside, you know? Not everybody's going to be #1, and not everybody needs to be #1. You can easily do amazing as a strong #2, and what I mean by that is not everybody has to be a CEO. Not everybody has to be the founder, the president. You know? Like, I don't introduce myself as the founder or CEO of Black Texas because that's not important to me, you know? I want this to be something much bigger than myself. I'm the editor-in-chief, which is just to say I'm the guy steering the ship right now, you know? Like, I don't look at the--I don't look at the Dallas Cowboys and think of who the owner is, I look at the Cowboys and think of who are their star players, you know? Who are the people who made the team breathe? And that's how I look at--that's how I look at Black Texas and really any business, you know? We know--we know who Mark Zuckerberg is. That's cool. He made it that way. He's not the one looking at all this Russia info. He's not the one making sure that you wind up in Facebook jail for some post, [laughs] and those people may not have the fame, but they're getting us all a paycheck.Zach: Right. Right, right. Man, this has been dope, man. Do you have any shout outs for us?Nick: I did not think of shout outs. Let's see. If there are people I'd shout out, honestly I would just give shout outs to my team. It's been--like, we launched this year mid-January, and it's been a wild ride along the way. I've taken risks. I've asked them to follow me, and they have, and we really--we really made a lot of strides this year, and I'm proud to see the work they're putting in and what we're able to accomplish when we work together, you know? This is the first time that I've really steered a team like this, and to see them, you know, putting up the hard work is honestly amazing. I would want to give a shout out to my family, you know? Like, I love my daughters, but most importantly, like, my parents. They have been a well of support for me. They've encouraged me to, you know, chase my dreams. They've helped me when I--like, when I wasn't sure about myself, and, you know, my grandma's been my day one, and she's helped me in life as well, but I don't know. I would say--if I had to give a specific shout out it would be to my father, and that's because he gave me the capital to get this magazine started, you know? 'Cause, like, every year he'll give--like, he'll give a gift for Christmas, which really isn't a gift to me, it's more of a "Hey, here's some money from me. Get gifts for the girls," because he doesn't really--he doesn't really celebrate Christmas. Different religion. That's not really his thing, and so I get it, but this last year he gave me a little more than usual, and he said, you know, "Take this and do what, you know, you feel you need to do with it," and I was just at a loss, and I thought and I thought about it. I strategized, and I prayed over it, and I said, "You know, I have to be willing to take that jump," you know? It called me back to a quote from Steve Harvey talking about getting to success, and he said, you know, "You have to be willing to jump. You can't be successful on the ledge," and so I went for it. And so, you know, I've got to give it my all because I can't--I can't let folks down. That's not my thing.Zach: Awesome, man. Well, look, that does it for us, guys. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You have been listening to Nick Bailey, editor-in-chief of Black Texas Magazine. Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down with creator Matthew Manning to discuss his entrepreneurial journey in launching Gumbo Media.Learn about Gumbo here: https://gumbomedia.com/Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to a B-Side. Now, every episode is someone's first episode, so for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially random shows we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow even more lit than our regularly scheduled shows. Today, we have a special guest - Matthew Manning. Matthew is the co-founder and [inaudible] director of Gumbo Media, a trans-media storytelling platform of curated content and experiences to expand the narrative of black life through various programs, services, and content platforms. Gumbo is amplifying new nuance and more humanity into our stories, creating pipelines that encourage us to speak for ourselves. Today, Gumbo is a coalition of over 60 artists, activists, entrepreneurs, and allies committed to a collective vision of inclusive representation. Matthew, welcome to the show, man.Matthew: Hey, thank you, man. I really appreciate it.Zach: Hey, man, I appreciate you being here, man. Now, look, today we're talking about starting a startup. Talk to us a little bit about your history and how Gumbo started.Matthew: Yeah. I think there are a few ways to tell this story, but to keep it simple, Gumbo, which was formally Royal Media, really emerged from a gap. It was a gap that my co-founder and I, Courtney Phillips, felt--to be honest on a personal level, but it translated into some of the professional. Representation was lacking, even in our jobs, in our classes. You know, anywhere we went that was professional or academic, educational, just social, it felt like we were often wearing a mask, or perhaps more aptly like we were living half of ourselves. And when the deaths of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling happened in the same week a few days apart, it was a difficult week for us. They were killed, and we instantly felt this shift that we couldn't come back from. And this had been already--this had already been happening with the deaths of black [inaudible] by the police force and kind of the growth of racial discord, but this heightened those feelings. We were forever changed, and we knew that our work in some way had to reflect it. One of the things that we were saying at the time was, you know, we really feel our tide shifting. And so what we did was we ideated and thought about what is a platform that we can build that allows these stories to be better heard, that allows us to feel like that representation is present in our own spaces? You know, kind of a cross-culture, and so essentially we built a squad of creatives who felt the same way, and then we asked ourselves, you know, how we can build--how we can build a platform and use content and storytelling in unique ways to really amplify the underrepresented, if you will. So additionally, how can we ensure that the voices of everyday people aren't swallowed or silenced by, you know, silencing forces, including sometimes those that are intra-communal, those that are within our own community. And lastly, we thought about how do we ensure that this becomes an equitable platform where others can engage and tell their stories, not merely a stage where we yell out the answers? You know? We don't want to speak for people. We want to create a pipeline and a platform that allows for people to speak for themselves, and that's really where the--you know, where the secret sauce is for us, if you will. We're all exploring, learning, and growing together, and black being has bound us, and so we really wanted to create a space that honors this truth that is consciously committed to amplifying all of its nuances and all of its complexities, especially by offering up space to the creatives among us who really do their thing and allow those expressions to be seen and heard around the world.Zach: Man, that's amazing. So I'm curious, right? So in starting any startup, building any company, you're gonna take your Ls along the way, right? So I'm curious, what were some of the biggest Ls--and I'ma call those Ls lessons, folks--that you've taken in starting a startup?Matthew: Well, this is my second go around, and so a lot of them I gathered from the first and used as kind of fuel for the second, and so some of the things that I think I've really learned are--and I'll speak more to the lesson portion of it. One is strip away your ego, especially as men. I think it's ingrained that, you know, we're kind of conditioned to feel like we know and we have all the authority and the agency and our voice, and so I think it's important to strip away our ego and to understand if we're doing what we're doing for ourselves or for others. I think it's okay to be both, but others should be a part of it, at least if it's something that's socially-minded, right? And for us it's more important that we get content right or that we tell the story in the--in the right way, that we are as inclusive as we can be, than that it is that I'm right, and so I think that's something that has been to remind ourselves of, all of us, but for me that starts with me, especially as kind of a leader in the company along with a few other folks. It's important that I try to be as prideless and egoless as I can be. We can be proud of our work. We can have confidence in our voice, but those voices can't be silencing of other people. Another one is just don't be afraid to fail. In fact, I've learned to really embrace it. Not in the sense that I'm encouraging or that I'm seeking out failure, but in a way I--I suppose in a way I actually am, you know? In a sense that I want to succeed, but I also know and recognize that failing fast and failing forward is one of the fastest ways to grow, you know? It's important to seek out growth. It's important to seek out criticism even, to better understand how we can refine our own processes and things of that nature. So failing, especially as an entrepreneur, allows you to really be the best version of yourself and to implement those lessons moving forward. Beyond that, it's really about doing it for the love, you know? Passion is, I think, the only fuel that's really strong enough to push us through some of these experiences. Being an entrepreneur is hard, man. As you know, it's hard work. You and your team are grinding every day. You're building. When you look at something that you admire, like a company, a movement, a platform, whatever it might be, and you say, "Okay, I want to get there," like, that's a--that's a large question. How do you get from nothing to...Zach: Something.Matthew: Everything that you admire. To something, exactly. It's a hard thing, and so if you're not doing it for the passion, if you're not doing it for the love, then, you know, then I just don't know that you're gonna have enough fuel, enough motivation to push you through all those little moments, all those difficult questions, all those shortcomings, because those are inevitable parts of the journey, and they're actually part of what makes the journey so beautiful. So valuing every step of that journey is a lot easier the second time around, granted, but those are all valuable things to keep in mind for me. Those have been big lessons.Zach: Man, that's a great point. And it's funny because, you know, you and I connected back--initially back when, you know, Gumbo was Royal, and I was working on another--on another nonprofit, and, you know, definitely--this is also my second go around with Living Corporate, right, and trying to figure out and take the lessons learned from my past venture to this, and it's like, okay. You're absolutely right. Like, failing forward, right? And, like, to your point around being passionate and letting that passion drive you, 'cause I can tell you--I mean, I completely vibe with you on the whole "It's a lot of work," and it has to be something you're passionate about because, you know, it's gonna be long days and long nights, and if you don't really, really care, like really care about what you're doing, you know, you'll end up taking time off, you know? Your content gets delayed. You get delayed, and then out of nowhere you look up and you haven't moved anything in a month, right? And a month in an entrepreneur's--a month of no activity in an entrepreneur's world is like a year, right? Like, you've got to keep it going. So--Matthew: Then there's also the comparative sense too, right? Which is that if you don't really care, there's always somebody out there that does care and that cares more and that is putting in that work, and so if you really want to make it, if you want to, you know, make what you're doing a success, if not for yourself then for the others that you're serving, then, you know, you need to put in that--you need to put in that work to get there and be smart about it.Zach: Right. And it's funny, right? So it's--and of course there's a duality in, like, not being so comparative that you end up robbing yourself of your own journey and your own development and driving your thing, but there's still the reality of, like, "Look, there's two people, Matthew, sitting down right now talking about something similar to what you and I are talking about and grinding," right? And there's always somebody else out there trying to--and if the goal is for your platform to grow and get out there, no one's gonna cry for you, right? You have to go, and you have to go get it, and I think--because I'm a Type A in that particular way and I'm a driver that really resonates with me, but like I said earlier, I think you have to kind of balance it between not going to the far end where you end up sapping yourself of the joy of even what you got into it for, you know what I mean?Matthew: Absolutely, I agree.Zach: So let me ask you this. What was the--what was the final push? Let's talk about Gumbo. Let's talk about Gumbo. What was the final push for you to pursue and commit to growing Gumbo full-time? And what all are you working on these days?Matthew: Yeah. So the final push was--I mean, it was interesting, right? 'Cause sometimes I say and think often that, you know, life is like water. I think I heard Will Smith say this someday, and it's just kind of laws of attraction, right? Like, you put in--the energy you put in comes back to you, and life in a lot of ways is kind of like water in that way in that if you make a decision, if you decide what you want to do and you start moving, it'll get out of the way. It'll make a path for you, even if it's masked under something else, right? So when we started at the time what was Royal Media, which our language at the time was celebrating the complexity of black life, which we're still doing, but it's now more embedded in what we're doing, I actually was laid off my full-time job. I was a nonprofit consulting. The company--I won't mention the company, but they've grown. I was part of, you know, an 8-person team that had grown to about 16 people, and then they laid off about three quarters of the workforce in a matter of months, and I was on the front end of that. So it wasn't just me, but I think likely part of the energy I was putting into that job was something that was lackluster. I was doing my job, I was being professional, but I also recognized that what I really wanted to do was this work over here. What I really wanted to do was commit to telling the stories and building the pipelines that allow black folks to really celebrate and honor themselves and each other, and that was passion to me, and I think that was felt, but I also think that was felt, you know, kind of cosmically, in a cosmic sense if you will. And so that was kind of a forced push, but at that time I recognized that, "All right. Well, if I'm already in this space, if I've already kind of taken the jump, even forcibly, maybe it's wise that I use the time that I have here to commit to growing this company as much as I can," especially as one of its co-founders. That's an unfair weight to put on other people, you know? When it's not paid work yet, when it's something that's scaling. It's, like, early, early, early stages of startup life. Maybe I'm the right person to do that, and so I did, and I've kind of continued to grind on that. It hasn't been easy by any--you know, any stretch of the word, but it was simple, right? I think there's a difference between simplicity and [inaudible], and I think we often conflate the two. It's a choice. The choice is simple - do it or don't. The path can be very difficult, and the path has been difficult, but the choice was simple. I knew what I wanted to do and I committed to doing it, and, you know, (tried it?) to say after some time we built enough--Gumbo's essentially an umbrella brand, and so it has other subsidiary groups and companies, and one of them is a creative consultancy, and now I'm one of the full-time consultants in that group. So now I'm starting to pay myself through business revenue to do work that ultimately feeds my soul, feeds my passion, and is a company that I started, and that feels great. And so it's taken some time, but it's becoming sustainable work now for me. And so it was kind of a forcible thing, but it was also energy that I put out there that came back at me and said, "You know what? You're ready for this."Zach: So for those--for those who say they can't afford to pursue their startup full-time, like, what would you say? Right? And if I may ask, like, how did you make it work before you were able to pay yourself?Matthew: Right. It's difficult. I would say that there are--one person I really admire who's hustling in this space, and you guys admire them as well, is John Henry.Zach: Oh, yeah. Shout out to John Henry, straight up.Matthew: Yeah, shout out to John Henry from Harlem Capital. He's doing some amazing work. One thing that he says often is, you know, you can work two things, but the moment that the new thing that you're building is losing money by not committing full-time, that's the moment to transition, and so I think if you have the capacity and you have kind of the agency to be at a job that you can enjoy, that you can continue to grind at while you're building your venture on the side, I think that is a wise choice if you have that--if the energy's there, right? If it fits, until there's a moment, and you'll know when that moment comes. Like, you'll know when you're actually being a detriment to your venture because you'll feel that your energy is the most valuable asset you have, and so there will come a shifting moment where you can make that shift and take that plunge. Beyond that though, I would say it's really about thinking creatively about your capacity and about what you're able to do, you know? Especially as creatives. A lot of us have skills that are accessible and valuable as freelancers. I mean, we've started this consultancy, and I know that this is a part of what's paying us now, but the valuable feedback that I recognized in that--you know, stepping back for a moment is that we have a pool of creatives who are looking for work, and a whole lot of business is coming to us asking for work to be done. So there is work out there ready to be accomplished. There are people who are requesting services, and so there are ways to kind of creatively find, you know, services to help pay you and support you while you're building what you're doing. Maybe it's about living a life that's a little bit more--a little bit more frugal, living a life that's a little bit more reserved, you know? But you can make it kind of on a part-time basis depending on what your expenses are and what you're doing to buy yourself that time so that you can open up as much flexibility and time as possible during the day. You know, I didn't think about how much of a privilege it was that I could have a meeting any literally time of the day, you know? If I'm working 9-to-5, a lot of people don't want to meet--a lot of business people specifically, new partners, potential investors, they don't want to meet after 5:00, they don't want to meet on the weekends, and, like, I don't know what my solution would be to that apart from taking off time from work if I had a full-time job. So I do think there is a moment when you know that a plunge is necessary to take that next step, you know? Businesses are all about plateaus. Well, they're all about growth, but every growth curve has a plateau unless you make another shift, unless you, you know, invite new kind of breath, new life, new wind into the company, and for me I recognize that in order to take this to the next level, I need to take a step, and I need to do this for myself passion-wise and joy-wise, but also for the team in terms of the work that we're doing. So it's just about being creative, and that's kind of what I did. So I did some graphic design, I did some editing, content creation, things of that nature, you know? But I'd be lying if I said it was easy. It was not easy. It was one of the harder things I've ever done, but it paid off.Zach: Man, that's amazing. So look, before we let you go, do you have any shout outs or any parting words?Matthew: Yeah. I mean, I would love to shout out the squad always. Courtney, Andre, [inaudible], Amir, Asia, Mike, John, [inaudible]...Zach: Let's get some air horns for the team, for the squad.[Sound Man throws 'em in]Matthew: Yeah. I mean, we do it all collectively, you know? And I feel blessed to call these people my family. I guess what I would say is to get yourself a squad, you know? Failure, I think, is easier when it's shared. Triumphs are more fun when they're collective, but also strategy becomes easier, I think, for a startup to fill. Like, when you're filling an asset map, when you're filling all of the things that you're capable of doing, it's easy when you have a team. It's more enjoyable, and I think it's a great way to understand that, you know, my skills may not be in finance per se, but I'm great at this [inaudible] stuff. I'm great at people. I'm great at programs. This person's great at event curation. This person's great at content. So once you start building and assembling that, that's really where it's kind of the shortcut--there are no shortcuts, but it's the faster route, I guess, to finding a more equitable and well-rounded form of success for whatever your business might be, and so that would be my parting words. Those people I love, I'm fortunate to call them family, and I encourage you to get you some of your own.Zach: That's so dope, man. Well, look, that does it for us, guys. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.livingcorporate.com. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're gonna just cut all that out. So let me ask--oh, we're gonna cut this 'cause I want to make sure you plug Gumbo, like--Matthew: Oh, yeah.Zach: So I know you gave your parting words, Matthew, but man, we didn't even plug Gumbo. Like, where can people find out more about the platform? Like, plug all your stuff, man. Drop some air horns for Matthew real quick, and then let's go ahead and plug your stuff, brother. Where you at?[Sound Man complies]Matthew: [laughs] Yeah, appreciate that. You know, the best way to find us across the board is GumboMedia.com. We were lucky to get a solid domain, excited about that since we kind of rebranded and relaunched a lot of our mission, and so everything is housed there. You'll find access to all of our content, all of our social, all of that stuff at GumboMedia.com. You can find us on Gumbo Media just by searching really any platform. So yeah, we're--you know, we're out here. We're creating. We're always inviting collaboration, innovation, so reach out, you know? Get involved if you're interested. We have about 60 creatives that we're working with and a core team of about 6 or 7, but we're scaling and building and always looking to build, so hit us up.Zach: Awesome. Well, look, that does it for us, folks. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question that you would like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been talking with Matthew Manning, founder of Gumbo Media. Peace.Matthew: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We speak with Black Girl Ventures founder Shelly Bell about the lack of diversity and inclusion within the venture capital space and the ways we can work to combat the issue.Find out more about Black Girl Ventures: https://www.blackgirlventures.org/Learn about Bumble Bizz here: https://bumble.com/bizzConnect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTAde: "The fact that African-American founders have limited access to investment has been well-documented, but you might not know that that problem is replicated in the venture capital world too. In recent years, several black-owned or directed VC funds and firms have opened their doors with a focus on minority and women-owned businesses, but as it turns out, many VCs are hitting the same obstacles as the founders they're trying to invest in - access to capital. According to PitchBook, American VC funds raised approximately $40.6 billion in 2016, with this year on course to make 2017 the fourth consecutive year with more than $40 billion raised. But with less than 3% of VC funds employing black [inaudible] investment professionals, only a small fraction of that sum will find its way to businesses owned or run by people of color." This excerpt is from Barry A. Williams' article "One Reason Black Founders Don't Get Enough Funding - Black VCs Don't Either." It explains the methods that entrepreneurs of color employ to support their startups, none of them nearly as effective as their white counterparts. The data doesn't lie. Less than 3% of all VC funding goes to entrepreneurs of color. In a world that is more empowered now than ever before to pursue entrepreneurial ventures, what can people of color do to garner the financial support they need? My name is Ade, and this is Living Corporate.Zach: [singing] Money, money, money... money! Ade: Child, what? [laughs] What are you talking about?Zach: [laughing] What? Listen, today is all about the lack of diversity in venture capital, specifically the reality that there's a huge disparity in the distribution of funds between white and brown and black entrepreneurs. So it comes down to...Ade: Oh, right. Money. Okay, all right. Capital. I'm with you now. Well, you're right. I mean, we live in a capitalistic society. We need money to do anything, so money is the life of startups.Zach: Yep, and you know what? I have an excerpt from an article I want to share. This is from Megan Rose Dickey of TechCrunch called "Venture Capital's Diversity Disaster." Here we go. Quote, "Just 1% of venture capitalists are Latinx. Only 3% are black. White people, unsurprisingly, make up 70% of the venture capital industry, according to a recent analysis by Richard Kerby, a partner at Equal Ventures. Compared to Kerby's 2016 analysis, women now make up 18% of the VC industry versus just 11% back then. At an intersectional level, black and Latinx women make zero percent of the venture capital industry," end quote. So this is talking about the industry, whereas your initial commentary was about VC recipients. But I would contend that the lack of diversity within the industry supports the disparate funding between white and ethnic minorities, especially women of color. Ade: Right. And to be clear, minorities are out here. Like, we are out here pursuing entrepreneurship, and we do seek funding for our startups. I know we've been sharing articles throughout the show, but I have another one. This excerpt is from a Forbes article written by Daniel Applewhite called "Founders in Venture Capital: Racism Is Costing Us Billions." So it says, "In 2016, the Center for Global Policy Solutions reported that, due to discriminatory financing practices and a bias towards companies primarily operated by white males, America is losing out on over 1.1 million minority-owned businesses, and as a result forgoing over 9 million potential jobs and $300 billion in collective national income. Less than 1% of American venture capital-backed founders are black, and the percentage of blacks in decision-making roles within venture capital isn't much better. Pattern recognition has enabled VCs to mitigate risks, but has also limited their profit potential and created an inherent funding bias. This bias stems from barriers to early stage capital, a lack of representation in the investing space, and is perpetuated by systems of racism that destroy opportunities within communities of color." So having read all that, wouldn't it be great if we could get someone, maybe a person of color--a woman of color, even, who has created a non-profit organization specifically built to acquire VC for ethnic minority-owned businesses? That's very, very specific, but, I mean, if we can get J Prince on here, if we can get DeRay Mckesson on here, I feel like, you know, big things poppin'. We can be a little picky. What you feel?Zach: I feel you, and I think you mean our guest, owner of Black Girl Ventures, Shelly Bell. Ade and Zach: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?Zach: [imitating air horns] Sound Man, come on. Drop 'em on in there. Let's go.[Sound Man complies]Ade: [laughing] All right, all right. Still extra. Next up, we're gonna get into our interview with our guest Shelly Bell. Hope y'all enjoy.Zach: And we're back. And as we said before the break, we have Shelly Bell, founder of Black Girl Ventures. Shelly, welcome to the show. How are you?Shelly: Hi, thank you. I'm good. How are you?Zach: I'm doing really good. So look, I feel as if you have one of the most straight-forward organization names out there, but talk to us about how Black Girl Ventures came about and what was the inspiration behind it.Shelly: So with Black Girl Ventures, we work to create access to capital for black and brown women entrepreneurs. It started because I'm an entrepreneur myself. I have a couple of my own ventures. My mom invested in me, and I really hit the ground running in building my t-shirt line called Made By A Black Woman, which fed into me actually starting my own print shop called Misprint USA, and I was grinding so hard at that, but I realized that during the process of me being on my grind I didn't have a community. And so I'm an artist. I've done performance poetry, and so through that I had done a lot of community building. So I'm like, "Hey, you know what? I know how to build community. I know how to bring people together. Why don't we just throw everybody together and give the money away?" 'Cause at this time, a lot of the news was coming out about women not having access to capital. And I'm like, "All right. This is a simple solution." So when I started it, it was really just a matter of bringing people together, everybody throwing some money into the pot, and then us creating, you know, some capital for women entrepreneurs. The first one, I barely even marketed it. We had about 30 women in a house in southeast D.C. We got together. I cooked all the food myself, which I will never do again. [laughs] Yeah, we had about four women pitch. We voted with, like, marbles and coffee cups. Like, I put each person's, like, name in a coffee cup, and then after they did their pitch, we had everybody in the audience ask questions and then vote by using their marble. So we just gave the money right back out in cash at that time. Like, I wasn't even thinking that it would be as huge as it's become. Now here we are two years later, over 20,000 people in our audience. We're in three states - D.C., Philly, and Balt--I'm sorry, in three--in three--yeah, three states, but three cities - D.C., Baltimore, and Philly. We're about to do--in the fall we have Chicago, Atlanta, and then another D.C., and we're in conversation with a lot of the small- to mid-sized cities about coming there next year. We're talking to people in Kansas City. We're talking to people in Durham, in Memphis, New Orleans, Albuquerque, Salt Lake City, because the larger cities we found are some really great, like, validators to say, "Oh, we did New York, we did Chicago, we did D.C., we did Atlanta," but really we're looking at, like, where do people have the most need with the least, like, activity that is culturally censored for them?Zach: That's amazing, and again, I'm just so excited that you're here. You know, I'm curious, what are some of the common misconceptions about venture capital that Black Girl Ventures seeks to clarify?Shelly: Yeah. So common misconceptions about venture capital. Huh. I'm not--like, I'm not exactly sure that I would say there's common misconceptions about venture capital per se. Maybe that it's, like--venture capital has become very sexy, and I think that people just don't understand who should get it, why they give it. Like, venture capitalists want to make money. Like, that's it. Like, the center of the day, the center of the round, how can your thing bring return? And if you are not so hardcore about that on your business, then you're gonna have a long road to go with venture capital. It's not grant capital. It's not a loan. Well, I mean, there's different kinds of deals that can be what you call a convertible note, which is basically a loan and [inaudible] and some other investment jargon, but ultimately you should just know that it's about the returns. Like, can you give return on investment? And fairly quick, you know? But quick in this sense means, you know, five years, three to five years. Like, it's a long game too, but the people want to see that the potential for returns are there. Zach: So in building out Black Girl Ventures, at what point did you realize, like, "Wow, this is a--this is really significant." Like, "This has some serious traction to it?"Shelly: Probably I would say at the beginning of 2017. I had a volunteer team of seven people where we decided to do it quarterly, and the first one we did, it was in March of 2017, and we started getting in applications at that time, and so we got a nice amount of applications with a low amount of marketing. 'Cause again, like, I'm just kind of throwing it out there, my network and the word of mouth being spread. Over the course of the year, just seeing it move and grow and grow and grow and then winning Entrepreneur of the Year for 2017 for [inaudible] D.C. and the people who voted for that. I mean, just like, I think the reaction from the women we serve is really what was caused me to be like, "Wow." Like, "We're really doing something." Like, our Baltimore winner from October of 2017, when she won, she cried. We did South by Southwest, and the girl who won, she cried for, like, 5 minutes, and they're--and the things that they're saying to me is that sometimes this is maybe their first win, is coming into a place where a group of people are supporting you, and, like, a group of people are just there to support you, a space that is created [inaudible] and then an audience of people who are there to support you. So I think, like, as the--as the audience has grown and as our traction has grown and the feedback that we're getting back, I'm just like, "Wow, okay. So we're not stopping this." Like, we're gonna keep going. Yeah, just seeing the reaction from the audience, seeing the reaction from the people that are pitching has been the thing.Zach: So how important--how important would you say resilience is for those who are seeking venture capital and really seeking to engage that space? People who are seeking to gain capital.Shelly: It's everything. I mean, resilience is it. Like, there's nothing else. [laughs] Because you've got to keep pushing. You want to keep refining your idea or your business to get to know where those returns are coming back, and venture capital is not for everybody. So, you know, you could be the person that needs to crowdfund. You could be the person who needs a loan. You could be the person that needs to focus on customer acquisition. Venture capital may or may not be the thing for you. I think it's--again, it's become sexy now because you can get a large amount of money at once, but at the same time, you know, you're building a relationship where you have to--you have to make sure that you're getting ret--that the returns are coming back. So, I mean, the resilience comes when you get a no, you know? Like, a "No, that's not gonna work for me," or a "No, I don't think that idea is gonna bring returns, or "No--" Nos are kind of hard to get when you're in need. So when you're, like, really wanting, needing the money to get to a certain place and you feel like you just can't get it, when you're focused on venture capital in particular, it can be hard, and especially because, like, there's a lot of translation work that needs to be done. There's a lot of cultural misunderstanding between, like, VCs and entrepreneurs. There's still a lot of work to be done on, like, you know, women getting invested in and women of color getting invested in and, like, diversity and inclusion when it comes to people's portfolios, because the pattern that has been consistently matched is white male who can sleep on couches for months and, you know, not eat to build a business, and so people, you know, venture capitalists have traditionally said, "Okay, this is the model for who builds successful companies." I think we're seeing that shift a little bit with the rise in investment in the beauty industry for black women in particular. I think we're gonna see a shift more as more people start pushing out that, like, "Hey, these industries," and even black and brown folks that own tech companies can also be invested in and show returns and that, like, the only pattern--I think we're gonna start seeing or showcasing a new pattern to match. This is one of the things that we at Black Girl Ventures are passionate about, is saying like, "Hey, yes, the white guy that sleeps on couches for months, goes home and just doesn't eat and builds a major tech company, yes, that's one pattern and that has worked, but also it's the, you know, black woman straight out of college who has been working on her idea the entire time. Also it's the, you know, woman of color in general who has, you know, pulled together as much money as she can from her family and her community to put into her idea and is now seeing, you know, 3X, 5X, 10X returns. Like, also it's the beauty business--the beauty industry, also it's the feminine care industry, also--you know, also it's the hair industry. Also it's the child care ind--you know, I think that as we--the health care industry. You know, I think that as we--as many people as we can push out into the open that are doing different kinds of businesses that also can show returns, that also can match up to what VCs are looking for, we can start to create a new pattern for people to match.Zach: So, you know, I wanted to ask this a little bit earlier, but I don't want to end this interview without asking now. So I--what really caught my eye about making sure that we wanted to have you on this show was a blog post that you wrote on Medium where someone reached out to you and said, "Okay, yeah. Black Girl Ventures. How would you feel if it was White Male Ventures?" Would you mind talking about the blog that you wrote in response to that? And I believe it got a ton of traction. Would you mind just talking a little bit more about that particular piece?Shelly: Yeah. So I was on Bumble, the dating app, looking for dates, and I swiped this white guy right, he swipes me right. On Bumble, you know, women have to do the initial greeting, so I greet him, and then he comes back and says, "Oh, well, if I started a company called White Male Ventures, you would go ape[shit?]," and my response to him was, "No, that would be venture capital. Have you seen who's getting it?" And he said some other rude things, but not before I could get it--he deleted the thread, but not before I could get a screenshot of the message. And so I was just--something was just, like, [inaudible] about it, so I did. I went to Medium, wrote the article, posted [inaudible], and then instead of having, like, an emotional response towards him or, like, racism or, you know, all of these kind of discrimination, diversity and inclusion type stuff, I decided to just use it to talk about what we are doing and the work that we do want to see in the world and the work that all of these amazing women's organizations are doing, and I listed the women's organizations in the article. And so I just--I pushed it to Twitter, you know, like any other Medium post that you write, and I didn't--I didn't think twice about it. So I noticed that people--you know, I was getting some traction on it, and Bumble actually tweeted me back, you know? But I'm thinking, "Oh, okay." You know how sometimes if you tweet things, people will say, like, "Oh, thank you," or, you know, "Thank you for your mention," or "We're sorry you went through that," or something like that, so I'm just thinking it's just a regular post. I didn't even look at it at first, and then something was just telling me to look at the post, so I looked at the post, and it is one of the content editors, and she's just like, "Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry you went through this, but we love what you're doing, you know? Send me an inbox message." So I DM'd her my email. We end up--she emails me and says, you know, "We don't stand for this kind of thing on our platform. We're sorry that you had to go through this. We're a woman-owned company, and we see that you're a woman-owned company, and we love what you're doing. We want to figure out how we can get involved with what you're doing. Can we sponsor a pitch competition? Can we see if we can offer mentors? Whatever you want. The ball is in your court." So from there, I'm just--I see the email and I'm almost in tears because I'm just like, "Oh, my God." Like, one, my journey as building this movement, like, I'm constantly figuring out and pressing for corporate sponsors, and, like, now I'm looking at engaging, like, employee resource groups as well because we learned that, through Black Girl Ventures being on internal calendars and being shared internally, that it's actually activating black and brown employees to be able to, like, feel like they can be a part of the community and what other community work they can do. So then I'm just like, "Oh, my God." Like, I've been really saying, like, if we could just start with one really great corporate sponsor, we could push into some different directions to improve some of the cases that we want. So we've been in conversation with them ever since then, and that was about three months ago. So now Bumble is actually--and this will be my first announcement of it, Bumble is our--one of our official sponsors right now for three pitch competitions. They're sponsoring us for the Chicago, Atlanta, and the next D.C. competition, which are all coming up in October. Atlanta is October 12th, Chicago is October 19th, and D.C. will be October 26th. Bumble has a Bumble Bizz side, so on Bumble you can look for people you want to date, you can look for people just for friends, and then you can look for professionals. And so we're being sponsored by Bumble Bizz, which is the professional side, and the awesome thing about it is we're gonna make it so that people can find each other at the event by using their proximity. So they can register for the Bumble Bizz app, and then you'll be able to actually connect with people in the room. It will be the official app for the [inaudible] pitch competitions and hopefully beyond because it's such a great tool, and you can find people that you want to hire, you can find people to mentor you, you can find people who are doing the work that you're doing just to ask questions of. So it's a powerful business, actual professional app on that side.Zach: That's incredible, and definitely shout out to Bumble Bizz. Air horns for that, and you know what? Also, Shelly, what's really incredible is that--what I'm hearing is the fact that you took the time to speak truth to power and not kind of shrink away from one, a frustrating and insulting moment, and you used it for a platform to speak to what you actually, to your point, are doing, so that's amazing. Where can people learn more about Black Girl Ventures?Shelly: Yeah. You can find us at BlackGirlVentures.org. You can also follow us on Instagram @BlackGirlVentures, you can follow us on Twitter @BGirlVentures, and on Facebook it's Facebook.com/BlackGirlVentures.Zach: Okay, that's great. So we're gonna make sure that we have all of that in the show notes as well as the Medium link to that amazing post, and we'll make sure to have the Bumble Bizz info in there as well. Before we let you go, do you have any shout outs? Any parting words?Shelly: Yeah. I wanted to just--I wanted to just mention a couple of our BGV alum who are killing it right now. We have Brittany Young, who has--the name of her company is B-360 Baltimore. B-360 works with kids who ride dirt bikes, 'cause dirt bikes are typically illegal to ride on the street, and she transforms them into engineers by helping them learn how to actually fix their dirt bikes and, like, actually, like, create 3D helmets and some really cool things. She is now an Echoing Green fellow and was just featured on the Afropunk stage for their solution session. We have Miracle Olatunji, who just--the name of her app is OpportuniME, and she's 18 years old. She placed third in our competition. Her web app helps students find opportunities for scholarships and internships, and she just made it into the Y Combinator virtual startup school, which is major. Y Combinator puts out--their incubator, that's where Twitter came from and a couple of others, like Airbnb. Like, your huge apps that are out right now. So I just wanted to mention them 'cause they are, like, doing such great work. And, I mean, there is a ton of other women that we work with and serve that I'm super proud of and rallying for, so shout out to all the BGV alum, and check us out. We'll be coming to a city near you soon.Zach: Shelly, this has been amazing. I just want to thank you again for taking the time to be on the show. We definitely consider you a friend of the pod, and we can't wait to have you back.Shelly: Thank you. This was great. Thank you so much for having me.Zach: No problem. I'll talk to you soon. Peace.Ade: And we're back. Wow, so shout out to Shelly and Black Girl Ventures. They're addressing such a need.Zach: Yeah, and she has so much going on. We really appreciated her being on the show. Like, make sure y'all check out the show notes to learn more about Shelly and everything happening over at Black Girl Ventures.Ade: Exactly. Well, look, up next we're gonna get into our Favorite Things. Join us.Zach: So my favorite thing right now has to be Jamaican food. Sheesh. Let me tell y'all, so good. Rice and beans. Like, just rice and beans. [laughing] Why is it so good? I did not know something so straight-forward could taste so delicious, but it does.Ade: So I have this theory. Stick with me here.Zach: Okay. All right.Ade: That, hands down, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, taste bud for taste bud, the Diaspora has the most flavorful food in the world. Like, the entire African Diaspora put together just, like, will punch you in your taste buds every single time.Zach: I just--I really agree with that, right? I mean, 'cause my two other favorite dishes are Thai food and Indian food. Now, I don't know where they land in the Diaspora, but I know they're brown, right? Ade: Bloop.Zach: Yeah, no, it's delicious, and so shout out to all my real Jamaicans. That's right, shout out to my Jamaicans. [laughs]Ade: [laughing] As opposed to fake ones? Zach: [laughing] As opposed to fake Jamaicans. Shout out to my real Jamaicans out there. Would it be offensive to add some air horns right here?Ade: I do not know. Let's, like, move on from the Rachel Dolezal section. [laughing] But I'm gonna go ahead and oblige your need for your air horns.Zach: Thank you. Sound Man, go ahead and drop some air horns specifically for jerked chicken, rice and beans, beef patties, salt fish. You know what? I'm 'bout to name the whole menu. Sound Man! Just drop the air horns.[Sound Man complies]Ade: [laughing] All right, okay. Just don't run off to Jamaica on me, because I will join you and never leave the beach. All right, so my favorite thing right now actually is a book called So Long A Letter by Mariama Ba. It is one of the very first novels written by a Senegalese woman in French, and it is a seminal work in African literature, particularly written by a woman. It is an account of one woman writing to another--they're both widows--written within the context of Muslim women in mourning, one writing to the other and trying to kind of talk her through this extremely patriarchal process of grief and trauma, and it is--it is a story of sisterhood, it is a story of anxiety, of motherhood, of grief, of independence, of women sustaining each other, and obviously this is something--maybe not obviously, but it's something that appeals to me as a feminist and as a woman who one day hopes to raise strong women and who hopes to, you know, hold my sisters up in the same way. So I'm gonna use the term woes, as much as I dislike the originator there, but I'm certainly gonna get a hard copy of So Long A Letter for all my woes. It is very much a book that lends itself to having a conversation about what it means to have a sisterhood. So that's my favorite thing. [laughing] You went from this high of "Let's eat, I'm 'bout it," and I was like, "Let me tell you about how solid we need to be right now."Zach: [laughing] No, but the juxtaposition is what makes us great. We're like the PB and jelly sandwich of podcasting. I don't want to say of all podcasts.Ade: Okay, but first--but first, I need to know - what kind of jelly are you? This will make or break our relationship. I want you to know this right now.Zach: #JellyBandit. I love jelly, but let's figure it out.Ade: Wow. You think you know someone. Goodness.Zach: [laughs] I love jelly. Jelly is great. Actually in Houston, there's a jalapeno jelly, jalapeno strawberry jelly, and it is amazing.Ade: [air horns going off] #StrawberryJelly. #StrawberryPreserves. #--you are just not [inaudible]. Like, I don't--I don't--Zach: So that is my--that is my favorite jelly though. Like, what is your favorite?Ade: I feel like I'm about to get kicked out the gang for this, but I like fig preserves. Now, hear me out.Zach: Fig preserves are good. I like fig preserves.Ade: Okay, and just like that, you saved our friendship. Okay.Zach: [laughs] That's very funny. Fig preserves are great.Ade: Fig preserves. I have--I made a cornbread once with goat cheese, rosemary and fig preserves, and I know somebody is going to say something along the lines of, "Die, you monster," and I want you to know that it was delicious and I'm willing to take that. I'm going to die on that particular hill. Great. Preserves are great.Zach: So anyway, I do feel as if--again, I feel as if it's this type of repertoire, right? This tit-for-tat, as it were, that makes us special, so I appreciate you.Ade: Oh, okay. [inaudible]. Appreciate you too.Zach: Anyway, [laughs] thank y'all for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. Check us out--Ade: You're--Zach: [laughing] All right. Make sure to check us out on Patreon as well. Again, we're Living Corporate, so just pull us up anywhere and you'll find us. That does it for us on this show. This has been Zach.Ade: And I'm Ade.Zach and Ade: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down with FindSpark CEO, public speaker and educator Emily Miethner to share her journey and share tips for young professionals seeking to build their professional network.Learn more about Emily hereLearn more about FindSpark hereTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to a B-Side. Now yes, we've introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but every episode is someone's first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially random shows we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow even more lit--that's right, more lit--than our regularly scheduled shows. If you don't know what I'm talking about when I say more lit, watch this. Sound Man gonna give me some air horns right... here.[Sound Man complies]Zach: And then the beat's gonna change and drop right... here. Now, look, this particular episode we have a very special guest, okay? This guest is named Emily Miethner. Emily is a public speaker, a networker, social media subject matter expert, a consultant, and perhaps most notably she is the CEO of FindSpark, a certified women’s-owned business enterprise that connects employees to top diverse early-career talent and has produced more than 250 career programs and cultivated an online and active community of over 30,000--that's right, three zero, 000--young professionals and top employers including HBO, BuzzFeed, NBC Universal, L'Oreal, Showtime, Grey, Bustle, Ralph Lauren, and Univision, inspiring career optimism in diverse young professionals around the world and empowering them with actionable career changing tips and tools. Now, listen folks, before I even get Emily on the show, you heard me say all those names. You know I'm gonna get at least a couple of those names with Living Corporate. This is crazy. You see these names? Y'all hear these names? Anyway, Emily, welcome to the show. How are you?Emily: I'm doing really well. It's Friday, so I can't complain too much. Zach: That's right. Now Emily, talk to us about FindSpark. Where did the name come from and how did y'all begin?Emily: Absolutely. So we actually went through a name change. So our initial name used to be NY Creative Interns way, way back in the day, but that gives a little sneak peek into the inspiration behind starting it. So I was a creative young student myself at one point, and really during my college years is when I realized that there really weren't a lot of great career resources out there, especially ones that focused on networking and building relationships. And I found that to be immensely powerful and important in my own career even just starting out looking for internships and my first jobs, and so I knew that I wanted to create something that really emphasizes the importance of creating a strong network for yourself early on and also to create actually fun and enjoyable experiences in ways for employers to connect with talent and doing it in a very inclusive way where everyone can feel welcome, whether it was their, you know, first time networking or millionth time networking. And so I took the skills that I had in then planning and social media, and that's what I really used to start FindSpark and create these experience for people of all different backgrounds to get a better understanding of all the different types of career opportunities that are out there and get, you know, better access to them, regardless of, you know, where their starting point is.Zach: That's amazing. So as I mentioned in your introduction, and I hyped it up, but I don't really think it was hype. You've been able to connect with some fairly major names. So first off, major props to you and air horns are gonna be placed right... here [Sound Man throws 'em in] because of all these crazy amazing brands, but secondly, how did you do it? And wait, before you answer the second question, my third question is how can you hook up Living Corporate with some of these amazing names? 'Cause these names are crazy. Emily: Well, you know, I think the best place to start when you're building anything is, you know, with whatever semblance of a network that you do have. And so, you know, really I--when I was starting FindSpark, I talked to as many folks as I could that I already knew - friends, mostly friends from college, the people that I had met at events, you know? As you could guess, I'm a big event geek and I really--you know, really, really love events and personally go to many of them, and so I'm pretty--I was always putting myself out there, and when I had the idea for FindSpark I would just really talk to as many people as I could about it, and I think that's something that a lot of people get wrong when they're trying to start something is they think, "Well, I don't want to talk about it yet," or "It's not perfect yet," or "I don't want somebody to steal my idea," and things of that nature, and I think it's good to talk to as many people as possible because you never know how they might be able to help you. And so I really started by doing small events, inviting people that I knew or just inviting people that I found through my own research online, and, you know, when you have a really awesome mission of, you know, taking something that's usually really crappy, which is networking, and, you know, saying that, like, "Hey, this is actually gonna be enjoyable. It's gonna be a really great group, and you're gonna connect with folks who maybe are outside of your normal network." It's a pretty carrot to put in front of people, and by always--by always creating a very welcoming and inclusive environment from day one, we've just built an extremely diverse crowd and, you know, in the broadest sense. You know, not just gender and ethnicity, and so that really got the attention of employers, in addition to employers seeing that, like, "Wow, they're creating these really fun ways to connect with these candidates," and when I started it was I would say definitely more of a--it was harder to get jobs when I started FindSpark, you know? It was, like, right around--you know, off of, like, the 2008 tough times when it was hard for really anyone to get a job, but now it's really switched I think to be more of a candidate's marketplace, and so, you know, employers need to be competitive in terms of, you know, showing candidates why they're at the best place to work and have the best opportunities and opportunities for growth. And so that's--you know, that's what they really come to us for is to show that they're, you know, investing in, you know, new and different ways to connect with talent and not just going to, you know, the same top ten colleges and posting on their job board and, you know, getting referrals from people that, you know, they're going above and beyond to create experiences and opportunities for talent to connect with them.Zach: Was there ever a moment while building FindSpark that you said, "Wow, this is pretty special?"Emily: You know--well, I would say going back to, you know, all of these great partners that we've been able to work with, these great employers, I mean, I think every time we get to do something incredible--and, you know, whether or not it's a huge employer like, you know, Grey Advertising or NBC Universal, I mean, even the smaller companies where, you know, you probably haven't heard of them because they're not a consumer-facing name, but we know that they have incredible opportunities. And, you know, those moments where we are building something that's going to connect folks to, you know, a career or a life-changing, you know, opportunity or connection. I mean, those are always the best moments, and luckily they happen fairly often. So those are--yeah, I would say those moments where we're, you know, building these partnerships, getting them off the ground, and then also just, you know, the positive aftermath of them when, you know, you get the follow-ups of folks who have made positive connections and who you've had an impact on. I have a very wonderful starred inbox full of folks who, you know, have shared their successes, and that's always really, really exciting and rewarding.Zach: I bet. So, you know, you made mention earlier about making connections, right? You said it's a candidate's market and how, you know, employers are seeking to really--to get and acquire true talent. So I'm curious, what advice would you give organizations who are seeking to be more inclusive and diverse by hiring ethnically diverse millennial talent? And what have you seen work?Emily: Well, you know, I think one important thing is to realize the difference between diversity and inclusion, right? They're often paired together, and we even talk about--you know, at FindSpark we talk about how we support diversity and inclusion, but they are two different things, and so, you know, for us, our ideal clients and for the employers we're working with, we really want to make sure that they have the inclusion side down before they start partnering with us in an external way that's more focused on diversity. And we also do DNI consulting, and we'll work internally as, like, an adviser as well if they're at that, you know, internal stage because there's no point in attracting diverse talent or talent that might not be representative of, like, how your company make-up is as a whole if you're gonna get them in the door and then not be providing the support they need to thrive and to grow, because then they're just gonna leave. So, you know, doing those internal sort of audits first of what is the, you know, climate of inclusivity. Are your hiring practices or your interview practices and your onboarding practices as inclusive as they can be? You know, and really getting all of that back-end structure set up first before going on the external side. And if you have all of that, you know, internal stuff, you know, set up and you have that going, then in terms of the external side I would say, you know, of course it's inserting yourself into communities and places where there is--where there is diverse talent or talent that's not coming from the most obvious places. You know, FindSpark is a great partner because we have so many different schools represented in our community, and we focus on what we call early-career talent, so that's folks with about zero to five years of experience. So you're either (in repping?) current attendants of different schools or, you know, have graduated from them, but, you know, it can be easy to focus on just a few schools with, you know, a few top programs and that sort of thing, but, you know, you have to think beyond the obvious. And I would say the other thing is to give opportunities to folks on your team, to a diverse range of folks on your team, when it comes to thought leadership, when it comes to creating content, when it comes to having a say in what sort of partnerships or recruiting practices that you are doing because that's really important too for people to see externally that folks who are in your company already from diverse backgrounds are elevated and have the opportunity to, you know, make significant contributions and that sort of thing.Zach: No, absolutely. It's funny that you--it's interesting that you bring that up because, you know, to your point, it's not just about having black and brown folks in the audience. It's like, "Okay, well, who actually has the decision-making authority and power," right?Emily: Right, mm-hmm.Zach: So if you see a bunch of--I mean, not to be--like, not to be too crass, right, but, like, if you look at in the 1800s, like, plantations were very diverse, but they weren't inclusive, right? Like, you had black folks everywhere, but there was only so many--there was a certain group of people who were only in power, right? So it's like, how do you figure out and how do you include and make sure that people who are--who are not necessarily the majority still feel involved and empowered with the decision-making of what's really happening around? So to your point around the thought leadership and actually being able to say, "Look, I was able to contribute to something. I was actually able to point to something and say I actually had a hand in driving that." That's so important. So as you know, Living Corporate focuses on the experiences of under-represented people and groups in the workplace. In my experience, so much of networking is built off of who you know. Like, if you're a first-generation immigrant or if you're a black or Latinx person or et cetera, your social circles are drastically smaller than your white counterparts. What advice have you or influencers within FindSpark's network given to people of color as they seek to grow their network and navigate their careers?Emily: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I also--in addition to FindSpark, I'm also an adjunct professor at a couple of colleges, and I teach career and social media courses. And they're different courses, different types of students. One is senior computer animation students at SVA. Another is a mix of different types of students at FIT, different grade levels, but an assignment that I give to both of them is to reach out and--reach out using only social media and the internet to get an informational interview with someone who you admire, and it's so simple, and as, you know, older folks, you and I--not too old, of course--but, you know, we understand that concept and that it's important and that you can do that, but younger people, especially younger people who might be coming from families who don't understand what they want to do or have, you know, no connections in the world where they want to go, it's not obvious that "Oh, I can just find someone whose work I admire and say hi and, like, ask them for their time?" Like, "What? I didn't even--what?" Like, "Really? Are you sure?" You know, especially younger--you know, at FIT a lot of my students are on the younger side. They may be, like, freshmen or sophomores, and, you know, they don't learn that kind of thing in high school. Like, they're not teaching the importance of networking. They're learning, like, how to take an SAT test and that kind of thing, and so they don't realize, like, how important it is to learn from other people and how open people are. And they're used to using social media for joking around with their friends and, like, being doofuses, and, you know--which I think is another misnomer that older people have, like "Oh, young people, they know all about how to use social media to do anything that they want," and yes, it's true that younger people are more--they are more digital natives in a sense. They know how to use the tools, like, logistically. Like, they would, like, more intuitively understand how to use different apps and Snapchat and all that kind of stuff, but that doesn't mean that they understand how they can use it professionally. And, you know, they have this whole other layer of--you know, a complete additional layer or many different layers of etiquette that they have to deal with. Like, "How do I present myself on all these different platforms to my professors, to my peers, to potential employers or mentors?" Et cetera, et cetera, and so just really empowering them that yes, you can use the internet, which is so amazing that you can reach out to so many different types of people so easily to connect with folks and really take ownership of building a network and getting them into the mindset that, you know, most people will not respond to them as well.Zach: Right.Emily: Because I--which, you know, I'm not just like, "Yes, the internet is magic, and you can get all of the people you want in your network so easily, and it's no big deal." Like, no. You know, I teach them it's possible, but it takes a lot of effort and it takes time, and of course you want to be creating great work on your own and show them that you're someone worth investing their time in because of, you know, your work ethic and things that you've created and done and that sort of thing, but that, you know, yes, a lot of people--most people will not respond to you or not get back to you, and that's okay, but the important thing is you try and you try in an authentic way, you know? By reaching out to people who you truly admire, you're gonna send better notes, you're gonna have better meetings because, you know, you truly admire them versus, like, "I'm gonna send the same message to 20 different people at Viacom 'cause I just want to take any job at Viacom," right? Like, that's not gonna work. So again, especially if you're not coming into a career with a built-in family network or a strong network from college, because maybe your campus is not one that companies come to and that sort of thing. Just knowing that there are so many people out there who want to help you and guide you and support you, and so it's just a matter of finding those people, you know? Looking across different platforms, and focus on people who have already shown an interest in helping others. You know, so those would be like people with podcasts or people who have blogs or people who are actively posting on social media or people who put their emails in their social media bios.Zach: Right. They do that for a reason.Emily: Yeah, and still people will be hesitant to reach out, you know? So focus on those types of people, people who do speaking engagements, who have written books. You know, there's different levels of that sort of thing, but those people are just more likely to be responsive as well. And so if you are someone who is from an underrepresented background as well, I would say, you know, it's important--well, really for anyone to just make yourself accessible to folks as well as being able to pay it forward.Zach: So again, I'm not trying to be a fan or too starstruck, but I see those names you've been able to connect with. How much of that has to do with you stepping out of your comfort zone and just putting yourself out there?Emily: Yeah. Well, I think it's huge, and I think what makes it easier is really knowing and having--knowing that you have something of value to offer, and also just really understanding why it will be valuable to, you know, the company or the person because, you know, at the end of the day everybody's got their own problems, and they want to look good, and they want to help their company grow. So, you know, when you're approaching anyone, whether it's for a partnership or you're just a person, like, looking for a job, you know, it's really understanding what their needs are and how you can help with that need and help solve that problem and, you know, ultimately make the person who vouched for you--again, whether that's the talent acquisition person or the person who's, you know, bringing on your company as a partner--you know, making them look good. Like, making them be like, "Wow, I'm so happy that I made this happen, that I brought this person on," or, you know, brought this partnership to life.Zach: Okay, so I don't want the interview to get too far away from us before I ask about what FindSpark has planned in 2019 and you letting us know where we can learn more about your organization and why professionals and employers alike should engage your platform.Emily: Awesome, of course. So, I mean, in terms of our plans, like, we have created so many incredible programs over the last year and are gonna be doing more and more in 2019, so, you know, we're doing a lot of custom partnerships with employers. One of my favorite recent examples is we worked with Grey Advertising to create a free eight-week portfolio school for aspiring creatives who have not already been through some sort of formal advertising program, whether through an official portfolio school or a well-known advertising college or university. So we brought a really, really diverse group of students who all had to apply to attend--apply to be a part of it. It was very competitive, and they had access to this incredible education from top creatives at Grey. They got to present final projects, their final campaign projects, to the chief worldwide creative officer at Grey. I mean, like, this was an incredibly, like, career and life-changing opportunity for those selected. So doing more and more programs like that where we are able to create these really meaningful connections and educational opportunities as well, and also we're doing more to support the inclusion side of employers and their initiatives as well. So our NBC Universal partnership we just did, not only did we bring in--create an event where we brought in 40 curated FindSpark members and candidates essentially, but the event also--they invited 40 folks from their young professionals network at NBC to come to this event as well and hear from this panel of incredible ad sales professionals at NBC Universal. So, you know, not only was it a great way to build a pipeline of potential candidates to bring into NBC, but for--you know, NBC has tons of employees with tons of potential too, and so curating, you know, a great group of those folks to also learn and network with the folks we brought in was really exciting. So again, doing more programs that also support that internal--like, we talked about, like, inclusion and providing opportunities for underrepresented talent inside and outside of the organization to excel and grow is, you know, what we're doing more and more of. And so in terms of where folks can learn more, definitely follow us on Instagram, and I know that's how we connected, so gotta give some shout out to the gram.Zach: That's right, shout out to the gram.Emily: We're at FindSpark on Instagram and every platform, [inaudible] make your Instagram feed a little bit more productive. But so fun, and then if you go to FindSpark.com/newsletter, if you're a young professional, an early-career professional, you can sign up to hear all about our opportunities, and FindSpark.com/employers is where you can learn more about partnering with us to connect with our [inaudible].Zach: That's awesome. Now, look, before we go, do you have any shout outs or final words?Emily: I would say always be connecting with people who you find interesting, and do it in a genuine way. And don't just connect with them, but always make sure that you're also creating time to maintain those relationships by practicing what I like to call unforced follow-up, which is, you know, when you see something, whether it's an Instagram post or an email or an article and you think--and you think of someone in your network, most people do that and they just think about them but then they move on with their day. If you take a couple of minutes when that happens to actually take the time to send it to that person or tag them in the post, send them an email with no intention other than just saying, "Hey, I thought of you," "This is the thing that made me think of you," that sort of thing will really help you maintain your network as well, which is super, super important.Zach: Always be connecting. I like that. We might have found the subtitle for this podcast, 'cause see, I think the episode--and tell me how you feel about the title of this podcast. This episode is gonna be Finding That Spark with Emily Miethner. Emily: I love it. Perfect.Zach: Okay. All right. Well, look, that does it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Emily Miethner, CEO of FindSpark. Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We speak with Corporate Alley Cat founder and CEO Deborah T. Owens about the importance of strategic networking and self-advocacy within the workplace.Find out more about Corporate Alley Cat: https://corporatealleycat.com/Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: President and CEO Shari Runner of the Chicago Urban League once said, "Speaking truth to power means believing deeply in what you say and fighting every day to have that heard. It may not be popular. It means taking a risk. It means standing for something." The context of the term "speaking truth to power" originates from the Quakers of the 1850s, who spoke out against institutional oppression to people who hold power, specifically, in their case, of American slavery to the government. Today, speaking truth to power means the same, and there are several institutions to which we could speak power. However, I believe there's also value in speaking truth to yourself, because sometimes we can be our biggest barriers to walking in the power we don't even know we have. I'd go as far to say that the day we speak up in affirmation of our own talents, our own voice and our own desires, is the day we step into levels of freedom that were previously unknown. The question is, "What does it mean to be an advocate for one's self? And what, if any role, does networking factor into it?" My name is Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate.Zach: So today we're talking about being strategic in how we speak up for ourselves.Ade: Super excited to discuss this topic. I believe us people of color, especially for women of color, it's easy to default to not speaking up for much at all, be it wanting more responsibility on the job, dealing with a difficult colleague or challenging your boss, all in the name of not messing up the bag, being seen as problematic or as some sort of rabble-rouser.Zach: And let's be real, we've had these concerns for a real reason. I mean, it kind of reminds us of our episode about salary negotiation in the sense that, in my experience, I'm often told by folks who look like me to "just keep my head down and stack my checks." Like, that advice has really held up as wisdom. I really don't believe that's a sustainable way of managing your career though, for practical development reasons or for your own mental wellness.Ade: Definitely agree. I mean, I've seen more than a few folks who are in places in their career that don't necessarily align where I think their skill set is, and every now and then I'll ask them how they got where they are.Zach: And what do they say?Ade: They nearly always include some story about them asking for more opportunities for leadership or requesting a new project or manager or career counselor. Closed mouths don't get fed.Zach: And it's funny, 'cause when I talk to folks who look like us, those same reasons--not having the right opportunity, being on the wrong project, having the wrong manager, a lack of support--all is reasons why they quit or, even worse, didn't progress.Ade: You know what? The thing is it's 2018, bruh. Don't get me wrong. I don't think today is a wholly different time than any time before us. If anything, we have more resources to tell us how to be, just maybe not the culture that teaches us that we have the right to do so.Zach: No, I agree, and all of us are not all slouches in Corporate America, but, you know, that same energy that we have on social media of speaking up, calling out the shenanigans, canceling folks as need be, why can't we take some of that same energy and apply it in the workplace?Ade: To be honest, it comes right down to exposure and practice. People of color haven't had to be in Corporate America at this number before. Like, you said it yourself, you're one of the first in your family to be in Corporate America, and it's 2018. I believe as more of us inhabit these spaces, in time the culture around us will change, but that could still be decades. We need help right now.Zach: Yeah. You know, it would be great if we could talk to someone who was a corporate executive and has experience speaking truth to power in the name of their own career. Someone who's maybe launched a company that really is the spiritual godmother of Living Corporate and that they provide advice and resources for professionals of all colors to best manage and advocate for their careers.Ade: Hm. You mean like our guest Deborah T. Owens?Zach and Ade: Whaaaaaaaat?Zach: *imitating air horns* Sound Man, listen, you don't even have to ask anymore. We're like--Ade, we're, like, almost done with the first season, so Sound Man, go ahead and give 'em to me.[Sound Man complies]Zach: That's what I'm talking about.Ade: Thank God I was not hoarse that time.Zach: No, that went very well. No, it was a very moi--I don't want to say moist, but it was--[laughs]Ade: [laughs] I hate that word. All right, so next up we're gonna get into our interview with our guest, Deborah T. Owens. Hope y'all enjoy.Zach: And we're back. And as we discussed, we have Deborah Owens. Deborah, welcome to the show, ma'am. How are you?Deborah: I'm great, Zach, and thanks for having me on.Zach: No problem. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Deborah: My name is Deborah Owens. I am the founder and CEO of The Corporate Alley Cat, 'cause sometimes you gotta get scrappy, and we are an organization that focuses on helping professionals of color advance their careers. And we do this by helping them navigate the corporate environment with the goal of shortening the learning curve and accelerating success in the workplace.Zach: So let's talk a little bit more about The Corporate Alley Cat. Real quick, where did the name come from? I love the tagline, by the way. "'Cause sometimes you gotta get scrappy." I like that.Deborah: You know what's so funny? People always ask me about how I came up with the name, and what's interesting is my inspiration for the name actually came from Congressman Maxine Waters. Many, many years ago, probably over 20 years ago, I saw a 60 Minutes interview she did, and I think it was Mike Wallace asked her about being an African-American woman in Congress and working with all of these men, and she said something to the effect that "That's not a problem for me 'cause I have a little alley cat in me," and I was like, "I've got some alley cat in me too." So it just came to me, Corporate Alley Cat, because you really do have to be scrappy. It is not a place for the faint of heart. You have to use your voice, you have to ask for what you want, and you can't be scared to tussle sometimes.Zach: So when you say tussle--what do you mean by tussle?Deborah: So what I mean by tussle is sometimes you have got to use your voice to say, "Hey, this is not right," "Hey, I need some clarity around this." You can't always be scared to escalate. We have to get rid of this fear of rocking the boat, because sometimes when people say "rocking the boat" it just means that they don't want to get out of their comfort zone, right? So say getting scrappy, you have to be willing to hold yourself accountable, but also to hold others accountable. You have to know your value, and more importantly, Zach, you have got to honor who you are in the workplace, otherwise you will become bitter and resentful, and you will turn into a victim, and so I always encourage people, you know, as a Corporate Alley Cat, to lead from a position of strength and knowing who you are and not from one of fear and uncertainty.Zach: You've launched Corporate Alley Cat, and it's been growing, and it's been moving forward. What has happened since you've launched Corporate Alley Cat that's affirmed for you that this is the right path and a viable space and the right thing to be doing?Deborah: Oh, yeah. So one, we are very engaged with our audience. I talk to my audience in some form or fashion almost every day, so I get lots of notes, letters. I talk to a lot of people who have shared with me their stories and their challenges and also their opportunities in Corporate America, and they often share with me how they've used the information we've shared to make a change or to help them better have a conversation or to help them get a promotion. Since we've launched, we've started a membership community where people can come and have direct access to all of our webinars, many courses, an Ask Me Anything form, and just a lot of resources to help them navigate on a daily basis in their corporate environment. I did a video on LinkedIn that told the story of how I started The Corporate Alley Cat, and can I tell you--I think it was in less than two weeks we got over 30,000 views. I can't tell how you how many people said, "This is my story too, but I didn't know what to do." So every day I get notes from people sharing their experiences, encouraging me--you know, on LinkedIn I get a lot of notes who just say, "Hey, I follow you. I watch all of your information. Keep doing what you're doing. It's needed." We are now working with corporate organizations who have also tapped into the power of The Corporate Alley Cat, and so we are sharing our resources with them. So we've grown from, you know, two years ago to not having much of an audience to having an audience of over 14,000 in less than two years. We have a very robust community online. Our email community is very large. So people have really responded to this, and I can tell you that all of our presenters who are corporate leaders, they've all said, "Absolutely I want to be a part of this." So I've never had anybody--let me knock on wood--to say no. They all support the vision, and they want to give back, and so it's been a really positive experience for us. It's more than a business for me, Zach. It really is my passion, and it's a culmination of stuff that I've been doing throughout my entire career.Zach: Absolutely. And it's so interesting that you say that. You know, I was talking to someone else who started a platform around black and brown experiences, but from--not just from a corporate perspective, but just in representation across a variety of lifestyle platforms and areas. And it's curious, you know? Any time you're doing any type of work that's really focused on uplifting and affirming black and brown identities or black identities or brown identities exclusively or just underrepresented identities, it has to be the type of work that you truly care about because it's not easy work, and it's hard work, right? So it can't just be a job for you or a side gig for you. It has to really be a part of, you know, your heart strings. It has to really be caught up in who you are, and I definitely see that within The Corporate Alley Cat, and it's really--again, just really encouraging for us. As you know, today we're talking about strategic networking and self-advocacy. Can you talk to us about how these elements in career management come together and why they matter?Deborah: I would say what I've learned over the last two years is that most of the professionals of color who are part of our community--and these are people with advanced degrees and lots of experience--the biggest issue that they have is they don't have strategic relationships in the workplace. The notion that you can just come to work and work hard and move through the organization is a myth. It doesn't operate like that. Often times we come into work, we're [smart about?] the technical side, but we don't have the relationship side. And often times we view the networking and the going to drinks with people after work and the informal conversations as an extra part of their job. I've heard people say, "I don't have the time to do all of that," you know? "I'm working." Well, what I want to share with people is it's not extra. That is a part of your job, to build those relationships, to build your network, because the bigger network your is and the more strategic it is, the better access you have to get things done in the organization. I'll give you an example. Somebody called me recently, and they were very upset about a review they got. And I said, "All right. Well, tell me a little bit about your performance." "The performance was great, but a lot of people didn't know what they were doing." I said, "Well, who do you know in the organization?" They said, "Well, what do you mean?" "Who do you have relationships with? What leaders do you have relationships with? Who can you go to that will advocate for you?" And they'd been in the organization seven years, and they were like, "Well, I don't--I don't really know anybody." I said, "Well, that's part of the problem. No one knows you, and when people don't know you, they're not gonna speak on your behalf. If people don't know you, when they are positioning people for future and current roles your name isn't gonna come up, and if your name does come up there's nobody to vouch for you." So building strategic relationships is really more than networking. It's a very intentional process where you want to identify people where you both can bring value to the relationship. And the other thing is it's a long-term relationship. It's not one of those relationships that you build overnight, right? And the other part that I find with professionals of color is that for those who do have the relationships, they're scared to leverage them. And what do I mean by that? They're scared to go to somebody and say, "Listen," you know, "I'm interested in this director role. Will you support me?" "I'm interested in this. Will you help facilitate some conversations?" "I'm interested in doing XYZ. I'd love to get together with you and figure out how we can create some opportunities here," or "Hey, I'd like to get on this project. I know you're leading it up. I want to be a part of this. Let's talk about how we can make that happen." Often times even if we do have the relationships, we don't leverage them.Zach: And why do you think that is though?Deborah: I think a lot of it, to be perfectly honest, comes down to confidence. I think that's the number one thing, and I understand that. I think a lot of it is fear. "What if I'm rejected?" I think a lot of it is people aren't certain about what they can ask for and what they can't ask for. They don't know what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And often times--listen, we haven't had models in terms of how to navigate the corporate arena. Now, both of my parents are professionals, but my dad is an attorney. My mom was an elementary school principal. They were both, like, the kings and queens of their domain, right? So this whole idea about how you navigate and how you get mentors, and more importantly advocates, it's new, and often times you don't know what you don't know, and that's really at the heart of why we created The Corporate Alley Cat. So we spend a lot of time talking about how to build those strategic relationships, but more importantly giving people the information about the how-to's, how to build, how to maintain, how to nurture, and more importantly how to leverage those relationships for career advancement and career success.Zach: You talked earlier about the fact that you said--you said sometimes you gotta get a little scrappy. Can you talk to us about how getting a little scrappy and having those strategic relationships come into play?Deborah: Sure. The best example I can give you, Zach, would be to tell you my story. Many years ago, I found myself in a situation where there was discrimination. I was a high performer, never had a bad evaluation, had had a very successful career, particularly if you look at trajectory, and I found myself in a situation where none of that seemed to matter. This was a really difficult situation for me. It was really--I like to use the word horrific 'cause that's what it was. I've shared openly that I lost 20 pounds, my hair was falling out, and it took me about three months to recognize that it was discrimination because I didn't want it to be discrimination. And I didn't know what to do, and if it was discrimination, what the heck do you do? I don't know. You need me to build a business plan? Got it. You need me to exceed this or navigate that, analyze this? Got it, but how do you handle workplace discrimination? I haven't a clue. So once I realized that that was the situation, I began documenting and sharing the information with the person who was doing the discrimination, and when I wasn't getting the kind of results I needed, I put together a letter. It was a very clear, concise, and firm letter, and I sent it to the president of the company. I didn't get bogged down in HR. I went right to the person that I knew could make a decision on this, and I basically said in my opening line, you know, "I'm being treated differently, I'm in a hostile work environment, and my boss is engaging in constructive discharge." So I didn't--you know, I didn't put any flowery language in it, and then I closed it with "I am requesting immediate resolution."Zach: Can I pause you right there? And let me ask you something for our listeners, but could you please explain what constructive discharge is?Deborah: Constructive discharge is when you feel like your boss is trying to get you to quit. Is that accurate? 'Cause you're HR.Zach: It is. Yes, it is when your employer creates an environment, through often times passive-aggressive means, to make it so uncomfortable for you that you really have no choice but to resign.Deborah: Right, and so I felt very much that he was trying to do that. And I wasn't gonna allow that to happen, and the reason why is because I hadn't done anything wrong. He'd never given me any constructive feedback, and I was not going to be a part of this. I was not going to acquiesce. I was not gonna go away quietly. If I'm gonna be uncomfortable, then you're gonna be uncomfortable, meaning the organization, because I was [attacking this?] head on. And listen, I had my moments where I was very--I had a couple months there where I became kind of a shell of who I was, and then I had this moment where I was like, "What the heck are you doing? This is not who you are," and then I got my bearings again, but I knew that I was not going to leave the organization unless they forced me to, and if they didn't have anything then I would escalate that as well, but what happened was I sent the letter in. A week later, the president of the company called me, and I kid you not, in 20 minutes the situation was resolved. So what does that mean? That means that he called. He apologized. He said they should've intervened sooner. He said, you know, "I pulled together the leadership team, and we had a--we discussed this," which, as you know, is your worst nightmare come true, that the leadership team has gathered to discuss you, and that [inaudible] me. And he said, "Unanimously we want you to be with this organization. We want to support you," and so what happened is I took on another role, a more senior role, and I continued to grow with the organization and take on leadership positions. And more importantly--and this is the second phase of the "get scrappy"--when I got into my new position, I became determined that I didn't want anybody else to go through this alone, so I became this very vocal, diverse in inclusion person in my organization, and I think I was very instrumental in making some significant changes. So again, I didn't come out of this situation and sit in the corner and just be quiet and be happy. It let me keep my job. I came in there saying, "We've got to change some things, and I'm gonna be part of that," and so we did. And so that's what I mean by being scrappy, you know? You've gotta be scrappy to advocate for yourself, but you also have to be scrappy and advocate for others, those people who are coming behind you. One of the reasons that I was really clear about making sure I did a lot of documentation is because I said, "If this happens to somebody else, I want to make sure that this organization cannot say they didn't know." So again, having that foresight and thinking about other people who are coming behind you, and getting scrappy is getting out of your comfort zone. Do you think it was easy for me to write the letter? You know, my finger was shaking when I sent that--you know, hit the Send button, right? Because you never know what's gonna happen, right? But that's getting scrappy, getting out of your comfort zone and saying, "I will not stand for this. This is not right. I'm not gonna be a part of this. I'm going to address it. I'm going to honor who I am and what I am," and you take those actions, and I think often times a characteristic that's undervalued is you have to have courage. You have to have courage. If you are a person of color in the workplace, at some point you're gonna have to really get out of your comfort zone and be courageous, and do it even though it feels uncomfortable. Do it, and you'll be surprised by the results you get. And for me it was a game changer because not only was I able to make even more significant contributions to my organization and understand the work I did on diversity and inclusion was not my part--was not my job. I wasn't a diversity and inclusion person. It was kind of my side gig at the job, right? So if it's something you're passionate about, use your voice. And what I say to people all the time, Zach, is you can advocate where you are. You don't have to be in a senior leadership position to advocate, to make changes in the organization. You just need a voice and passion.Zach: Would you mind talking a little bit more about The Corporate Alley Cat and classes you all have around to encourage and build the confidence around networking and self-advocacy and things of this nature? And I ask that explicitly and ask you to plug that beyond the fact that it's a wonderful platform and you're here and we want you to talk about it, but also because, you know, when you talk about being courageous and you talk about, you know, us not having the history and background to really know these things, I just--that resonates so true with me, and I can tell you, Deborah, as someone who is a millennial and who is still, you know, a younger professional, that it's so--it's so common, even within our space, even as social media and--I would say that, you know, we're becoming a little bit more conscious about things in the world around us, even within the corporate space. There's still an overwhelming narrative of, "Look, just put your head down. Stack your coins. Don't say anything." So, you know, what resources would you point our listeners to when it comes to really building up these competencies and learning more about this?Deborah: Sure. And Zach, before I answer that question, can I go back to my story? Because there's two key points I want to make about my story. So I was able to resolve that situation, not on my own. So one of the things that I had to do was I had to reach out to people, and I had to say, "Listen, here's what's going on. I'm not sure how to handle this. I don't know if they're trying to fire me. I really don't know. I have no documentation. Nobody's talking to me. I don't even really know what's going on here." So the first thing I want to say is you've got to reach out to your community, and this is where your strategic networks come into play. When I tell you there were many people working behind the scenes in my situation to support me, I had at least two very, very strong advocates in leadership, and I had many more advocates in other positions, and more than the letter, that's probably what helped resolve my situation. Because people knew me. This narrative didn't fit. They supported me. They knew my performance record. So I want to encourage people to ask for help, and ask for help, as I always say, early and often. In the age of social media that you just mentioned, Zach, Instagram, Twitter, we're all putting on this facade at times that we want people to think we have it all together, right? And some of us are barely hanging on on the inside. Get rid of that shame. There is no shame in asking for help. The real tragedy is when people don't ask for help and they allow their careers to be derailed unnecessarily. So build your community, and I like to use the word community versus network because I believe as people of color, we are born into a community. This community wants to support your entire being. It's beyond what a lot of people think is networking and that transactional type of process, right? These are people who care for you, support you. These are people who are alums from your high school, your college, your church family, your close family, your friends, your friends' friends. I honestly believe that everybody has everybody they need already in their network if they would just reach out to them, but most people don't reach out. So that's the first thing I want to say, ask for help. And then secondly I want to say nobody does it by themselves. If you are spending time struggling to figure out something by yourself, you're wasting precious, valuable time and energy. Ask for help. There's always somebody who knows more than you and who can make it easier for you to navigate those situations. So build those strategic relationships, reach out to them when you need them, and ask for help. And don't be scared to rock the boat, because I say rocking the boat is a good thing. Because think about it, Zach. If you're in a boat, and you rock it, that's how you get momentum, right? If you don't--if you don't rock the boat, what happens?Zach: You're not going anywhere.Deborah: You're not going anywhere. So when people say to me, "Well, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to ruin my career," often times one of the things I ask people--I'm like, "Well, it doesn't look like you have a career here."Zach: Come on, now. That's what I'm talking about. See? Come on now, Deborah. Yes. [laughs]Deborah: Like, what are you trying to--you know, they've already said this to you. They've already done this. You've already got a bad review. You don't have a career here. What little bit you have is about to go away, right? So that's really--I want people to get away from using that as an excuse to get out of their comfort zone. All right, enough. Enough. I'm getting off my soapbox, Zach.Zach: [laughing] No, this is good. Yeah, so where can people learn more about--where can people learn more about The Corporate Alley Cat? And where can people engage more with this content? This was a wonderful--been a wonderful dialogue. I want to make sure that people know where they can go.Deborah: So you can go CorporateAlleyCat.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn under Corporate Alley Cat. You can join our Professionals of Color Facebook group. We share a lot of good information there. It's on Facebook. Professionals of Color. We're on Instagram, CorporateAlleyCat, and on Twitter, CorpAlleyCat. In addition, on our website we have blogs, so you can get a lot of free information there. At least once a month, we have a free webinar with corporate leaders. So all people need to do is go to our website and sign up for that. We have courses. So we have two summits that are available for purchase. One is called the negotiation summit, and one is called the performance review summit. They both walk you through those processes. We also have career coaches that are available to help you, and I want to say this is really significant because the corporate coaches that we have available to you are people who have been very successful in their career, and they have led HR or employer relationships departments, and so they can give you the real strategy, right? So we approach it from "Let me tell you how the organization is gonna look at the situation." "Here's what the organization's gonna say, here's what they're gonna do, and then here's what you're gonna do." Often times, people don't have access to that strategy. They're just reacting, and what we do is we help people map out that strategy and how they execute it, which is invaluable. We also have a membership community, and we are opening it up for enrollment in September, and that's where you have access to all of our webinars, and that's over 30. You have access to many courses. You have access to our monthly Ask Me Anything form. You have have access to our resource library. So there's a lot of great information there, and I also do work with organizations, so if you are a corporation out there or you lead a corporation and you want to make sure that you are not just recruiting--'cause I think organizations spend so much time on recruiting they forget about retaining and developing that diverse pipeline. What are the things that your talent needs to know to be able to successfully navigate that corporate arena? And that's a win-win for everybody. So there are a lot of ways that you can reach out to us, and we have--we are planning a conference upcoming, so stay tuned for that. But it's not your traditional conference. It's actually gonna be called The Corporate Alley Cat Experience.Zach: When that is coming up to date, keep us in the loop, Deborah, and we'll make sure to let the folks know about that as well.Deborah: Yeah, and the other thing I want to say about our webinars is we do the webinars so people can expand their network. We bring in people that you normally wouldn't have this type of access to, and all of our folks are open to linking in with you. We have people who share their cell phone numbers, personal emails, right? These are people who truly want to support you, but you've got to ask for the help. You've got to allow yourself to be a little vulnerable sometimes.Zach: Absolutely, and Deborah, this has been a wonderful conversation. You know, we definitely want to have you back. Before we let you go, do you have any shout outs for us?Deborah: Absolutely. I always want to give a shout out to the Corporate Alley Cat community 'cause they are bar none the best. The best. They are scrappy. If you've ever gotten on our webinars, they are engaging. I want to shout out to our Corporate Alley Cat leaders and presenters because, listen, our webinars--Zach, have you ever been on one of our webinars?Zach: I've been on one webinar.Deborah: Okay, and I--if you've been on, you know they're not for the faint of heart.Zach: They're not. No, it's real talk.Deborah: We are real talk, and I always open it up by saying we treat you like family. We're gonna be honest with you. You might have your feelings hurt, but we are coming at it from a position of love, and we are vested in your success. So I want to give a shout out to--there are too many people to shout to who support The Corporate Alley Cat, 'cause no one does it alone, Zach. No one does it alone, and that's--if I could leave any parting message that's what it would be, is nobody does it alone, you don't have to be alone, and that there is a community out there that wants to support you and help you achieve your career goals, whatever they may be.Zach: Amen. Deborah, thank you so much for joining us today. Again, your words, your passion, your energy around this are more than encouraging and invigorating. They've definitely encouraged me, even in this conversation, and I know that they're gonna be definitely a blessing to everyone who hears it. So thank you again for your time. We definitely consider you a friend of the show, and we hope to have you back.Deborah: All right, Zach. Stay scrappy.Zach: Absolutely. I'ma stay scrappy. [laughs] You too. Peace.Deborah: [laughing] All right, thank you.Ade: And we're back. I loved that interview, and I am excited to join the Corporate Alley Cat community and check out one of those chats.Zach: Yeah, I've checked it out a few times, and I've enjoyed them every time.Ade: So let me ask you this. What did you take away most from y'all's discussion?Zach: Honestly, I took away that your career is what you make of it, right? So to Deborah's language, we gotta stay scrappy. It doesn't mean that it's some combative, negative, or violently confrontational thing. In fact, you know, it reminds me of the conversation we had earlier this season with DeRay. He was talking about his book, but we were also talking about how you push up against these systems, and he was saying, "Look, everything doesn't have to be so negative," right? But it is about being direct and demonstrating courage. So how did you feel about it?Ade: Very similarly, to be honest. At one point I felt quite attacked, to be frank with you. She was talking about people she was coaching and that they'd say, "Well, I'm gonna hurt my career," and she'd reply with, "Well, sis, you don't have a career here," and I felt dragged. I felt persecuted, frankly.Zach: [laughing] She was knocking on your door?Ade: What? She had kicked my door in, slammed some receipts on my--on my table. You know that Iyanla gif? "Not on my watch." That was precisely what she was doing. [laughs]Zach: Not on my watch. [inaudible] She was shaking your table?Ade: And I was sitting right on the table too. Like, the table she was shaking had my whole career on top of it. So yeah, I really appreciated the approach that she was taking 'cause it was very, very relatable.Zach: You know what? Sound Man, go ahead and drop one of those flex bombs for that, because when she said--when she said you don't have a career? Boom.[Sound Man drops the bomb]Ade: Wow. [laughs] Wow, really?Zach: I literally--in my mind I was like, "Wow, this is, like, one of those [makes boom]." Like, goodness gracious.Ade: Yeah, yeah. It also reminded me of that famous quote from Alice Walker. "The common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." And for the record, we're not victim blaming here. We're never about that. What we are saying is that we are in the business of pushing up against systems, spaces, and cultures that were not created with us in mind, and that means that sometimes you have to be willing to advocate for yourself. And yes, it's uncomfortable, and yes, it's absolutely challenging, but like you said, your career is what you make of it.Zach: For sure, and we'll make sure to have info in the podcast for everyone who has access to learn more about Corporate Alley Cat.Ade: Beautiful. Well, yeah. Awesome. Cool beans. Up next, we're gonna get into our Favorite Things. Hope you guys enjoy the segment.Zach: So my favorite thing right now is Marc Lamont Hill's book "Nobody: Casualties of America's War on the Vulnerable, from Ferguson, Flint, and Beyond." It's a powerful, gripping read, and it pairs analysis of the stories we see on the news with emotional authenticity. It's been out for some months, but I still really enjoy it.Ade: Awesome. Continuing in that amazing literary tradition that we've set, my favorite thing right now is--actually I have two. One's gonna be fun and one's gonna be more scholarly. My scholarly one is--it's called "Just Mercy" by Bryan Stevenson. It's a book about the American criminal justice system, and anyone who knows me knows that I have a thing for the idea of grace, and it was right in line with, you know, just the conversation about how there is such a dearth of it in the American criminal justice system. So if you're ever interested in picking up a book--it's heavy sometimes, but I recommend that everyone reads it. My second thing--it's a little bit lighter. My favorite thing this week is a purple bag of Doritos. Sweet Spicy Chili. Try it out. You will not be disappointed. I love me some Doritos. [laughs]Zach: Absolutely. Well, shout out to the book recommendation, and also shout out to Doritos. This is not a paid ad. Ade just likes to eat.Ade: Okay. Well, sir, don't we all? [laughs]Zach: Right? We've gotta survive. [laughs]Ade: That felt--that felt a little bit like an attack. [laughs] But yes, they're quite delicious.Zach: Well, dope. Thank y'all for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. And that does it for us on this show. This has been Zach.Ade: And I'm Ade.Zach and Ade: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down with social influencer, entrepreneur, community builder, public speaker, blerd, and AI subject matter expert Tim Salau to discuss his journey into tech.Learn about Tim Salau here:http://www.timsalau.org/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to a B-Side. Now, yes, of course we've introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but every episode is someone's first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially random shows we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow even more lit--that's right, even more lit--than our regularly scheduled shows. Sometimes they're discussions that the hosts have, sometimes they're extended monologues, or sometimes they're, like, a one-on-one chat with a special guest. Today we have a very special guest, Tim Salau. Now, this is from Kathryn LeBlanc, who did a profile on Tim. "Tim Salau is an ex-Googler, UX wiz, and LinkedIn video creator extraordinaire. Tim somehow manages to spare enough time to run a Facebook group called Mentors and Mentees. The group provides high-quality advice for young professionals looking to launch or level up their careers. Tim is also a LinkedIn campus editor and recently just began his journey with Microsoft as an artificial intelligence product manager, AND on top of all of that, Tim is Living Corporate's first brand ambassador. Tim, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?Tim: [laughs] I'm doing well, man. You boosted me a lot there. I appreciate it.Zach: Okay, look. So today we're talking about non-conventional entries into tech. Talk to us about your journey into tech.Tim: Man, my journey into tech was very, very interesting. So my background is in psychology. I went to Texas Tech University to get my psychology degree, and then from there I started learning a little bit about digital media as well as, you know, how psychology can apply a lot to technology. Around my junior year I realized I really wanted to get into UX as a vertical, and since UX is really big in the tech arena I decided that I wanted to go make a career out of that because I really enjoyed an internship I had that junior year, the summer before my senior year. So from there I decided I wanted to go to grad school at the University of Texas in Austin and study something called a Master's of Information of Studies, which would allow me to develop kind of a deeper understanding of UX and kind of the psychological principles of how information and people work together. And, I mean, from there I've just been pretty much practicing and learning as much as I can in the field, whether it be on my own accord or at school or, you know, going to any kind of event that will allow me to just soak up as much knowledge as possible. And now I find myself really focused on artificial intelligence, and I think I was able to break in by just talking to the right people, man, and kind of being in the right spaces at the right time.Zach: So, you know, you talked about--just now you talked about how you're leaning into and learning as much as you can. So you and I have joked about this, but you have, like, I don't know 70 bajillion LinkedIn training certifications, right?Tim: [laughs] Yeah, man. I'm working. I'm working. I think learning is--learning is the easy part. Applying it all is the hard part, right? But I think some people find it hard to start learning and find the sources, but I think we're in an information age where it's incredibly accessible.Zach: Right. And let's continue down the path of being self-taught, right? So I think it's easy to assume that being self-taught is easy because you're creating your own rules to follow. Like, there isn't a pace, and the content is there for you to stay engaged how you like. For some though that's more immobilizing than anything else. What advice would you have for folks who are struggling with the idea or just the anxiety of that type of learning?Tim: I think find out what learning methods work for you. Being self-taught, for me I found that it's a--it's not just one learning method I use. I go from watching YouTube, LinkedIn learning videos, to, you know, finding hands-on ways to apply what I've learned, to talking to people who are the experts and just kind of getting their perspective on the field and, you know, seeing what they've gone through. I think for people--usually they think that they have to go straight to being experts. They have to go straight to really, like, being able to--like, for example, let's say create some sort of machine learning model, right? Like, it would scare you because you're like, "What the hell? A machine learning model?" Like, "How do I get started doing it? That seems like such a hard thing to do." So, like, the initial thought is that "Oh, man." Like, "I can't do this," but if you literally go on YouTube and search "how to," right, there's a five-minute video, I guarantee you, that will kind of walk you through it step by step, right? And you may not even master it after you watch that video, so what you do then is--okay, you go ahead and you go apply that knowledge, right? And you may not even master it after that, but what you do after that is you go to talk to someone that's actually done it, right? And let them know, "This has been my experience," and I think it's really a matter of making experience of learning, right? Put yourself in a position to either, you know, go offline and visit one of the events or wherever this knowledge is being shared, and really put yourself in this mindset that learning isn't one-dimensional. It's not monolithic. It's just not me, you know, just watching someone do it, it's me making an experience of it.Zach: So let's talk about Mentors and Mentees, right? So what and how--what is it, and how does it fit into your other work in tech?Tim: So Mentors and Mentees, about a year ago I was--I mean, a lot of people were reaching out to me about career advice and, you know, kind of my career path and everything, and I've always been into mentorship. I've actively mentored many people, probably too many people, because I always have--I have an executive board of mentors myself, so I understand how valuable it is. So I created Mentors and Mentees, a community group for people who are interested in kind of finding different perspectives, to help them kind of nurture their career paths and whatever problems that they may have. So right now the group is on Facebook, and I have plans to kind of create more around it in the future, and it's essentially a resource for anyone that is kind of confused on whether it be their job search, right? You know, whether it be salary negotiations or how to--how to transition from a different position into a new one within the same organization in a totally new industry. So the whole notion of Mentors and Mentees was just to create that space, that community, and it was actually something that was missing not only on Facebook but at large, right? Kind of, like, this very democratized space where you get an international audience and a wide variety of different perspectives to kind of, like, come to the table and share their experiences. So it was just a passion project, but now it's growing into a brand for me, man, and, you know, I have a lot of work that I have to do to continue to grow it. Zach: So continuing on that path talking about just working. So I know, you know, recently you announced, and you've been celebrating--again, congratulations again--around the placement with Microsoft.Tim: Thank you, brother.Zach: Yeah, no, you're welcome. In your IG story, you talked about being--like, just being an African kid and, like coming from the mud so to speak, right? And building this path for yourself. So what advice do you have for minorities who come from all sorts of backgrounds and see tech as, like, this far off, distant, mythical--like, it's too obscure to even grasp. Like, what advice would you have for them?Tim: I think first thing is a change of perspective. Tech permeates everything. I think a lot of people see tech as only a centralized thing, but more so see it as a--technology as a distributed kind of vehicle to a lot of different change, whether it be in the health sector, in the transportation sector, in the education sector, right? So change your perspective. It's not just like--everyone says "I'm trying to get into tech." Really in whatever capacity you're working in or whatever field that interests you, you will be affected by tech in some, you know, way or form, right? So it's a matter of understanding, "Well, if I really want to build my technical aptitude," or "If I really want to get into this field, how do I apply tech to a problem I want to solve? How do I apply tech to where I'm going next? How do I bring in the knowledge that's being shared, whether it be in the space of artificial intelligence, in the space of bot design, in the space of UX, how do I bring that to the work that I do as someone who wants to be a health practitioner or someone that wants to go into journalism, right? So I think changing that perspective is the #1 thing I encourage someone who wants to get into tech, quote-unquote, to do, right? See how they can apply it to a problem they want to solve and they where they want to go next. And once you make kind of that change of mindset, once you set that stance to change your mindset, you'll start to see that, "Okay, wow." Like, [inaudible] tech. It's a component of tools that I could use to really actually do better, not necessarily in my job function and role but also within my community. What really got me into tech is the fact that I was obsessed. I was really obsessed with the fact that one, UX and psychology was a way where we could create digital experiences that people would understand, and it would follow them throughout their day, throughout their life, and it could be shared, and as I grew and developed my passion, I developed a deeper obsession with this whole notion of community, right? How does technology really integrate into our communities? How do we build that digital aptitude, that digital literacy, and how does it extend beyond just, you know, one person being able to do it to multiple people and then an organization and so on forth? And I think me being really obsessed with community but being obsessed with the topics, I found ways where, "Okay, there's a lot of different ways I can use tech to scale what I'm trying to do, the problem that I'm trying to solve." The fact that, you know, I don't think a lot of people have that, you know, digital aptitude to really maybe start their own business or find themselves successful in that first role after their job, right? How do I one break down that education block, right? And how do I use tech to scale my solution. So changing your perspective and then seeing how you can use the tools that you have across the tech landscape, whatever it is that you're interested in to kind of scale your solution, is the best way to go about it. Zach: Man, this has been awesome, man. Before we let you go, do you have any shout outs, any other parting words?Tim: Man, I think that you gotta stay hungry. [laughs] You have to stay hungry and really find your obsession, find what you really are interested in and the problems that you want to solve. Zach: Now, where can people who want to learn more about Tim Salau--where can they engage you?Tim: Well, [laughs] I'm not a great [omni-channel?] presence, so you can find me on my Facebook page and profile at TimSalau, on Instagram at TimSalau as well, and especially on LinkedIn, one of my favorite platforms, at TimSalau as well. Feel free to connect with me, send me an [in?] mail, let me know if I can be of help to you in anything, as well as join the Mentors and Mentees community if you're a professional and you have a perspective to share and you have a story to share. The community is for you, and it's a great membership base for you to learn from others as well. So definitely join our Mentors and Mentees community.Zach: So a couple of things. First of all, yes, definitely. We're gonna put some air horns right here for Mentors and Mentees. [Sound Man complies]Zach: But also, Tim has been super gracious as I've been jacking up his last name this entire conversation. He hasn't corrected me one time, so shout out to you for being gracious. So air horns to Tim on that as well.[Sound Man complies again]Zach: So for the audience one more time, can you pronounce your name? The first and last name so we all have it right.Tim: Tim Salau. So it's T-I-M, my first name, and my last name is S-A-L-A-U. Tim Salau.Zach: I've been saying straight up Salu this whole time. You did not correct me one time. The humility is so real. All right.Tim: [laughs] It's okay.Zach: All right, so to be clear, that does it for us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been talking with Tim Salau. Peace.Tim: Yeah. [laughs]Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

We sit down with TJ and talk about his path to joining the tech industry and what people of color can do to engage it further.Learn more about tech: ROOTsTechnology.infoConnect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTAde: I'm sure many of our listeners can relate to the concept of familial pressure, and as many immigrant or first-generation young adults may know, the career path for us is often limited to that of a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. I chose the path of a lawyer when I was younger. However, as I've evolved as a person so have my interests, and I'm not alone in this. Many of us have seen leaps in technology that have piqued interest in previously unexplored fields. So with that in mind, it should be of no surprise that it is one of the fastest growing industries in the world with revenue within the industry projected to reach $351 billion. It also makes it an inviting field for groups that have been underrepresented in this industry until now. The question is what does it look like to make the pivot? My name is Ade, and you're listening to Living Corporate. [intro]Ade: So today we're talking about non-conventional entries into tech. As many of you may know, this would resonate with me. I've shared at least two or three times this season, but for those of you who are new, I'm actively making the career pivot into software engineering, which was not my focus in college. The journey so far has included some extremely long hours, some late nights, a ton of mistakes, a couple of wins--a couple of little wins--and many, many failures. Zach: Yeah. You know, we could've done a better job promoting your journey through Living Corporate's Instagram because your IG stories are great. Like, I'll see you posting pictures of your laptop screen with a bunch of code on it, you being in all these all-day workshops, books you're digging in to help build your technical chops. It's been inspiring to see.Ade: Thanks. Thank you. Part of what I am interested in is making tech more accessible. It's all around us, and engaging in tech means often--more than just being a coder. Being a coder is awesome, but there is so much more to tech than that.Zach: Right. I mean, to your point, because there's technology in everything that we do, there's a myriad of ways to work in tech. As an example, I'm a change management consultant in technology. I don't know how to code a thing, yet, but I'm still actively engaged in the industry because I bring other skills to the table to help implementations and things of that nature to be more successful.Ade: Right, and along that train of thought, there's space for all of us at the table--word to Solange--but it comes down to exposure and engagement. For me, I had two primary barriers. One, I didn't know what tech meant. It seemed like this vague, really nebulous space, and that was scary. I like when words mean things, and I like when I understand what those words mean. And the second big barrier for me was that I did not know how to get there. I had no road map. I had graduated from college, and there was no counselor, adviser who was like, "Take these classes and you'll get there," and "These are the steps." I had to figure it out for myself, but in figuring it out for myself I came to understand that the tech space is made up of people, some really amazing people, and therefore completely accessible. Just like you are a person, they are people, and so this is a space that you can absolutely find your way in. Zach: Right, and as you alluded to in the intro, professionals of color as well-served to seek entry into industries that are growing and positioned to be on or around the top, but it would be great if we could speak to someone more about this topic, right? Someone who--maybe they're, like, a first-generation American who changed their career, made a career pivot after college and got into tech, but not only that, they leveraged their passion and network to teach other ethnic minorities skills to get them into the tech space as well.Ade: Wait, you mean like our guest TJ Oyeniyi?Zach and Ade: Whaaaaaaat?Zach: Sound Man! [makes air horn noises] Come on, drop 'em in. You know it. Just put 'em right in there. Let's go. Ade: [laughs] All right. So next up we're gonna get into our interview with our guest, TJ. Hope y'all enjoy.Zach: And we're back. TJ, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for joining us.TJ: Thank you. Thank you so much, Zach. Appreciate you.Zach: Hey, no problem, man. So look, for those of us who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?TJ: Yeah. So my name is Tolu Oyeniyi, and most people know me as TJ, which I completely made up while watching Smart Guy one day. I was born in Nigeria, [inaudible], and I grew up in Dallas, Texas. I did my undergrad at UT Austin and grad school at Arizona State, and I am currently in the second year of my career switch as a software engineer. Zach: Man, that's amazing. So look, today we're talking about non-conventional entries into tech. Before you got into technology or the tech space explicitly, what were you doing? And what spurred your interest in the tech space?TJ: Ah, what was I doing? So I was working as a business analyst at a small health tech company in Austin at the time, and I was also a really big volunteer in Austin. Like, when I moved back to Austin from Dallas for work, I told myself, like, "Anything black," like, just anything dealing with underrepresented groups, I wanted to volunteer time to just help and, you know, just try to, like, give back any way possible. And I ended up, like, volunteering for a host of different events 'til I stumbled upon this one event called <div>hackathon at Huston-Tillotson University, which is an HBCU and actually the first higher education institute in Austin during South By, and the purpose of the <div>hackathon was to basically introduce black and brown students to tech, and I volunteered as a mentor to basically help students flesh out their ideas and, you know, ultimately try to build, like, a working product at the end of those two days for the hackathon. And what, like, really triggered the idea of, like, learning to code or just teaching people how to code was when I parked in front of this, like, brand new house across from, like, HT in east Austin, which, you know, used to be, like, an old black neighborhood in Austin. And, you know, this house was a reminder that this area was being gentrified, largely by a lot of people that are--that come into Austin because of tech, and just kind of, like, thinking, "Man," like, "All these black and brown kids," and just, like, families in these areas are being priced out of here because they don't really have access into this industry and don't really know, like, the basics, you know, to even be able to try to, like, you know, have a chance to, like, try in this industry. And that kind of frustrated me a bit, and I thought one day, "You know what? It would be real impactful if somebody was teaching these kids to code," and I just, like, jokingly mentioned to a friend--you know, to my friend at the event, like, "Bruh, you know, I think I'm gonna mess around and learn how to code so I can teach these kids to code."Zach: Wow. [laughs]TJ: The guy I was talking to was a software engineer for IBM. He was like, "Oh, really? Can you code?" I was like, "I do," but I didn't know anything about coding, bruh. I worked as a business analyst. I did, like, design software, but I don't actually build it. But yeah, I had the crazy idea of learning to code so that I could learn to teach black and brown kids to code. And I didn't really learn to, like, make a career switch. I just wanted to basically help other people, like, break into the industry. And I did that for about a year until I basically got this useless promotion at work. [laughs]Zach: Why was it useless? [laughs]TJ: It was useless, man. I was--I was working as a business analyst, making--you know, for a health tech company, making 37,500 in Austin--Zach: Wow. Wow, that's really low.TJ: Ooh. Man, you said wow and it just--it brought back all the pain from those days. [laughs] Oh, God. But yeah, and I had gotten a promotion to senior business analyst, right? You know, big time. I'm thinking big time. Everything got a promotion [inaudible]. My [inaudible] got a promotion, my responsibilities. Everything but my salary.Zach: Oh, no. But that's really what happens though.TJ: Yeah. I'm like, "Hold on, bruh." [laughs] "Hold on, bruh. Wait, what's going on?" 'Cause my, you know, coworkers got a raise. Why in the world did I not get one? So I started having this, like, back-and-forth with my manager like, "Hey, man. You know, I've been doing all this," you know? "My output is looking really good," et cetera, et cetera. Like, I've been here for over a year, you know? What's up? And I just got promoted. So he eventually went to bat for me with the CEO, and they got me a promotion. Like, I--man, I remember that day well. He came into the office and we had a meeting, and he was so happy to, like, announce to me that I had gotten a raise. I was like, "Okay. What's that money looking like, bruh?" He's like, "Yeah. So TJ, we're gonna take you from $37,500 to $39,998."Zach: Oh, no.TJ: I was like, "Hey, bruh. You guys really couldn't have added a couple dollars more?" [laughs] You know, to at least make it 40K, bruh. Really? I was--I was like, "Okay, wow. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it." I mean, I went back to my desk with this look like, "I'm leaving." I was, like, mid-twenties, just thinking, "Man, I'm not gonna be fighting for 40K." Like, "I'm not trying to build my life and career off of that," 'cause--you know, 'cause the question then was how long 'til I reach, like, 60K?Zach: Right. No, it's a real question. Right.TJ: Yeah. I'm like, "Bruh." Man...Zach: God forbid six figures, right? Like, come on. Right, yeah.TJ: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, "Jeez, I'ma be, like, 40 to 50 years old before I see any kind of money where, you know, I can just kind of be at peace?" Basically, right? 'Cause I had, like, a lot of loans coming from grad school 'cause I also did grad school out of state. But yeah, so I was very, like, frustrated by that, and by this time I had been learning to code for about a year and, like, you know, teaching it as well, but at that time I basically just knew the basics of building, like, web pages and websites. You know, just simple HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Bootstrap. You know, that type of stuff. But I went home and I was just like, "You know what, man? I'm not gonna be here fighting to try to make 40-something K." Like, my financial goals were way bigger than that, and I was like, "I have to make a change," and all of my software engineer friends are banking, and, you know, so far this stuff seems pretty straightforward. So I basically went to this event or something at IBM I think, and I saw this printout of a job posting for an engineer role at IBM, and it had all these skills and requirements. You know, just basically all this stuff on there, and I basically used that posting to update the curriculum that I was using to teach.Zach: Oh, wow. Yeah.TJ: This happened, like--man, I think this happened around June or July 2016, and I basically took that job posting and I put it, like, right next to my desk in my room, and I put a date on there. Like, December 2016 was how long I gave myself. I was like, "By December 2016 latest, I should be working as a software engineer. Period." Zach: Let's go. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing.TJ: So yeah, basically that is what kind of spurred me making that career change, and it's just crazy how it all started, how I actually only started learning to code so that I could teach other people so they could break into the industry and make more money when I was over here broke. [laughs] Maybe I should make the switch.Zach: Right. You know, I'll say this. It's funny. I truly believe any time you attach your purpose with people you're going to see rewards on the other side, right? TJ: Oh, yeah.Zach: Right? So your whole angle, your whole mission was "How can I serve someone else?" And then as you were building to serve others, the fates came together to make sure that you were taken care of. So that's really exciting, and I think something else that I hope our listeners are picking up on is that you were tenacious about it, right? So the information was out there, you did your own research, you put yourself out there, you were willing to be uncomfortable, and you drove to get there. Let me ask you something about this program that you started to teach other folks, specifically youth, how to code. What is the program, and why do you believe coding is so important? Why do you do it today? Like, why do you continue to do it today?TJ: Well, so the program was called ROOTs Technology, and I was basically teaching classes on Saturdays at the time in, like, a lower income part of Austin. Yeah, and for me, at the time I thought it was, like, a really good chance to provide an opportunity for kids that were already interested in tech somehow to just learn more of the hard skills to try to, like, pick up the chance to try to break into the industry or to ultimately start, like, their own stuff on the side in terms of, like, building websites for people or just, like, building--or just building their own app ideas [inaudible] actually. So yeah, I mean, that--man, teaching is hard, bruh. Teaching is very hard. I always knew that our teachers were undervalued, underpaid and underappreciated, but that, like, knowledge took a different form when I actually, like, experienced being in the shoes of a teacher for just, like, a couple hours once a week, because there were some students in my class that they didn't know where they were going to eat unless they came to my class because Subway, like, sponsored lunches. You know? So it was like--there were so many, like, hurdles outside of the actual class that basically made it hard for students to retain information and to basically achieve the goal that they set out to achieve. So yeah, that was tough, and I ultimately had to, like, pull back on the program. So now I have the curriculum online, and it is open to any and everybody to use, and I just make myself available as a mentor to help people to get unstuck as they are working through the curriculum, you know? Because everything is online and self-paced, so.Zach: So let's make sure that we'll--we'll make sure to put those resources in the show notes because I think that's amazing. I think--you know, certain people--for me as an example, right, I'm a good Googler. Like, I don't have an issue looking something up and figuring out or, you know, reaching out and talking to people, but that isn't always--that's not everyone's strong suit. Having a place where all of that information is consolidated and available I think is a big deal, and there's plenty of people out there that really see tech as, like, this big, just amorphous thing that you can't really wrap your arms around or that it's only for super, super quantitative math geniuses and things of that nature. So let me ask you this. If you could give people, especially minorities, who don't have a tech background but want to get into the space three tips, what would they be?TJ: One, decide what you want to do, and if you don't already know what you want to do in this industry or you just don't know anything about tech, just start looking for local tech meet-ups in your area and start attending and just--just ask questions. Like, you will always find people that are willing to just, like, answer questions and at least help you and point you in the right direction. And two, like, find people that want--once you figure out what you want to do, find people in this industry that are where you want to be and approach them to basically help you come up with a plan to get there. And then three, you have to really, like, sacrifice and grind. Like, set a timeline and let other people know to basically help to keep you accountable to your goals and get to work, you know? Like, this--this, like, took me over a year and a half of just, like, teaching myself and just grinding, and my last, like, five months, I actually--like, once I decided that I wanted to make the switch into being an engineer, I think I spent about, like, seven months of just, like, really sacrificing and grinding. No more happy hours. No more brunch. Dollar mimosas, and God knows I love, like, dollar mimosas. Like, I--Zach: Dollar mimosas, yeah. [laughs]TJ: You know? I basically I had to give, like, so much up. Like, I was working full-time and coming home, and basically from 6:00 P.M. to, like, 1:00 or 2:00 A.M. I was just studying. Seven days a week. Just grinding and sacrificing. The only people that saw me on a regular basis were my coworkers and my sister 'cause she lives with me, but that was it, you know? I basically went into a hole to, you know, try to put in the work to achieve my goals, and I basically showed up with a brand new software engineering job a few months later.Zach: Well, see--that's just so inspirational, right? Because, again, I think we talk a lot about things we say that we want to do, but the reality is it takes work. It takes sacrifice. Anything that you want to really build that's gonna be sustainable, not a fad or not something passing in any way, it takes time, and it takes actual work. And it's funny because, you know, you didn't pull those hours out of nowhere. You had to give up some comfort so that you could eventually get where you wanted to go. So that's--that's just amazing. I'm really encouraged by this story. This has been a great conversation. Before we wrap up, TJ, do you have any shout outs?TJ: Man, I have a lot of shout outs.Zach: Go ahead. Get it going.TJ: [laughs] So yeah, first shout outs will be to Dara Oke and Sammy [inaudible]. They were my engineering friends at the time that basically helped point me in the right direction when I was coming up with this self-paced curriculum to, you know, teach people, and then after that, shout out to Yusuf [inaudible] and the African-American Youth Harvest Foundation, which is where the classes for ROOTs Technology were at, and Yusuf was another engineer at the time that basically started learning to code back then like I did and wanted to make the switch over, and he would actually volunteer with me to help teach the class as well. And yeah, again, he achieved it as well. He has been working as a software engineer for the past two years. And also shout out to [inaudible] for just being, like, a really big support--just a really good friend and mentor in this, like, tech journey. Like, E is an engineer. He's worked at IBM on the Watson project, DO doing, like, [inaudible] stuff, and now he's over at GitHub, and he always does a very good job of just, you know, trying to help lift as he's climbing, and I was, you know, one of those people that he, like, really helped along the way in my own journey. And also a big shout out to my fiance Queen and my sister [inaudible], who gave me a place to live while I was--while I didn't have my own place for a few months. And just a really big shout out to all of my family and friends that were there to support me and to, like, push me on throughout this whole journey.Zach: Man, that's beautiful, man, and again, we thank you for your time. We love your story. We definitely consider you a friend of the show. We hope to have you back, man.TJ: Awesome. Awesome, sir. Thank you so much, Zach. Appreciate you.Zach: All right, man. Peace.Ade: And we're back. I can tell that you and TJ had a lot of fun on that one, and to be frank, I was incredibly energized by his story. It was really motivating to hear because he's out of the old, so to speak. I'm definitely still in "stay low and build" mode, but hearing his story is encouraging, and it's motivating, and it lets me know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. Zach: Yeah. I think his story comes down to the power of execution. He made up his mind to do something, and he didn't use any excuse. He researched, he studied, he prepared, and then he went for it, and he didn't take years and years. It's really--frankly, it's been a super short journey for him, and I'm happy for him because I know he's just getting started.Ade: For sure. We'll definitely need to make sure to list all of those resources and contacts in the show notes because, like you said, there are so many of us out here who are interested in a genuine approach to the industry but aren't necessarily sure where to start. We'll have a starting line for you.Zach: Absolutely. Well, with that being said, we're gonna be right back with our Favorite Things. Can't wait to share.Ade: Awesome.Zach: And we're back with our Favorite Things. So folk who know me know that I am a blerd, or a black nerd. Two amazing games dropped this month. One was 2K19. Yes, like many younger black men, I loves my 2K, my NBA 2K. For those who are not in the know, NBA 2K is a basketball simulation game. This isn't even an ad. I really enjoy 2K, especially My Career, where you take a player--you make one, you create one, you take him through the journey of being a rookie to a Hall of Famer. And Spider-Man dropped. Both for PS4, so I'm really--I'm enjoying myself.Ade: 2K, huh? Okay. So what's your style? Are you a shot-creating slasher? A playmaker? What's up?Zach: I'm actually a slashing, shot-creating small forward. I'm 6'10" on there, and so if you want to catch a body, you want to be put on a poster, you find me at the park. My gamertag is RevNunn, R-E-V-N-U-N-N. I'll see you out there.Ade: RevNunn gonna put you on a poster. All right. This week my favorite thing is a book called Weapons of Math Destruction. Yes, I did say math. It's a book that came out in, I believe, 2016, and it just examines the societal impact of algorithms and big data. We tend to think of--kind of following in the conversation we were having about tech spaces, but we tend to think of data and tech and science, the STEM space, as a relatively bias-free zone because it's presented to us that way. However, this book just talks about those spaces can actually--and that work, the creation of algorithms, actually can be used to reinforce pre-existing inequality and systemic inequality. I love it. It's by a mathematician known as Cathy O'Neil, and she talks about, you know, the reinforcement of discrimination using systems that we would otherwise consider or would otherwise hope are unbiased. So it's been a fun read. Okay, maybe not fun. Fun is definitely not the term I'm looking for, but it's been a very illuminating, insightful read, and I encourage everyone to take a look at it. Oh, that reminds me. Before we go, we are actually going to be opening up our Favorite Things to you, our listeners. So if you have a favorite thing, please get at us. DM us through IG or hit us up at our email address, which we'll list later on at the end of this show. You can also contact us through the website or Twitter, and we'll make sure to shout you out.Zach: Dope. Well, that does it for us. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. You know what? Also, we actually bought a bunch of other domains. That's right. Sound Man, go ahead and drop some air horns right here.[Sound Man complies]Zach: That's right. We bought livingcorporate.co., livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org. We are everywhere except livingcorporate.com. So if you type in Living Corporate you will find us, okay? If you have a question you'd like for us to answer on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. And that does it for us on the show. This has been Zach.Ade: And I'm Ade.Ade and Zach: Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.