Zach speaks with Jennifer Brown, founder and CEO of Jennifer Brown Consulting, and they take a deep dive into exploring what diversity and inclusion means. They also talk about what it really means to be inclusive as a leader, and Jennifer shares a bit about her latest two books. Check out Jennifer's books! They're titled "Inclusion" and "How to Be an Inclusive Leader."Connect with Jennifer on the following platforms: Twitter, IG, Facebook, LinkedInPut your name on the mailing list at JenniferBrownSpeaks.com!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with the Living Corporate podcast. Now, look, y'all know what we do, man. [laughs] Y'all know. Listen, man, we try to drop--come on, Sound Man. Give me them air horns right here. [air horns sfx]. More fire for your head top, and look, today is no different. I ain't even gonna get into a huge, long kind of, like, intro before I get into the interview, 'cause our interview was kind of long, but I really want y'all to hear all of it. I interviewed someone who is a strong--seriously, like, one of the leaders within the D&I space when you talk about, like, presenting content around intersectionality, diversity, inclusion. Her name is Jennifer Brown. She's a facilitator. She's a public speaker. She's a consultant. She's an educator. She has a background in change management, so there's a lot of symbiosis between the both of us, and we had a really dope discussion just about what it really means to be inclusive as a leader, and then we had a conversation--like, kind of a meta discussion about the D&I space as an industry. If y'all remember--this was, like, way back in Season 1--we had Amy C. Waninger, and then we had Drew, A.K.A. Very White Guy, on the show, and Drew talked a little bit about the--, like, D&I as a business, right, and kind of, like, the capitalistic or corporate nature of D&I and, like, what that looks like, and we had a conversation about that too. It was really interesting. So anyway, what you're gonna hear next is the discussion between Jennifer Brown and myself. She's great people, definitely can't wait to have her back on the show. Make sure y'all check out the show notes. You can look and see all of her information, including her latest two books, okay? So make sure y'all check it out, and we'll catch y'all next time. Peace.[pause]Zach: Jennifer, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Jennifer: Oh, thanks. I'm doing great. Trying to stay cool in this July.Zach: Man, it is hot out here.Jennifer: Yeah. Global warming. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] For real. Look, I gave a brief intro, but for those who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Jennifer: Of course, yeah. I--let's see. I'm an author. I'm a keynoter. I'm a CEO and an owner of a consulting business, all of which is focused on building more inclusive workplaces for all kinds of talent to thrive, and it's a passionate, personal mission that I have because I've been out since I was 22, and I'm in my 40s now, but the workplace was a place where I couldn't really bring my full self to work. And I want to say it wasn't just being LGBTQ. I mean, the workplace has all sorts of inclusiveness problems when it comes to people like, you know, us, and, you know, most people actually. Anyone that's not a certain mold, and so as somebody who has--I have a master's degree in opera, believe it or not. I came to New York to be an opera singer, and that did not work out.Zach: Wow.Jennifer: Yeah, I know. [laughs] It's crazy. Luckily I reinvented as a corporate trainer, because it's all this--it's like being on the stage, you know, and connecting with audiences. It's just the topic is different. So I reinvented into that field, which remains really my field to this day. So we're really--we're a strategy and training company, and we're working across the Fortune 1,000, I would say, on a daily basis. My team is all over the country. They're amazing. They're so talented at what they do. They have a lot more patience for client work than I do. [laughs] And yeah, we can talk about that if you want, but I've been a consultant in the trenches for a long time, and I'm actually really thrilled now to kind of be more living the keynote and author life. I just--I like it a lot. I love performing. I love big audiences. I like the challenge of thinking on my feet. I like having to write books on this topic and figure out, like, "What does the world need me to write next, and how do I take what I hear and learn and put it in a way that's digestible for people?" Because it's really--it's kind of, like, a life-or-death situation from an inclusion perspective, and I deeply feel that, for myself and many, many others.Zach: Wow. Well, thank you for that. Awesome. I'm already--like, my shoulders are kind of bouncing up and down. This is gonna be a dope conversation.Jennifer: Woo! Yeah. [both laugh]Zach: So today we're talking about inclusive leadership, and before we get too deep into it, can we get some definitions on these terms? Like, from your point of view. Diversity, inclusion, and intersectionality. 'Cause in a lot--in your content and in your IP, both written and your presentations, like, you use these terms a lot, and frankly your content is centered around these terms. For our audience, I'd love it if we could just, like, level-set what these things actually mean.Jennifer: Yes, and you need to consider the history of the conversation. So in the corporate and workplace context, diversity is really--has been traditionally the "who," right? The demographics, the representation in your workforce. Typically it's [counted with?] gender, right? Which is where it started, and race and ethnicity. It wants to count LGBTQ and people with disabilities, but, you know, a lot of those folks can hide who they are, right? We are very good at hiding who we are and not checking boxes. So diversity has really been that representation, the mix, the complexion of the workplace [with a small C?]. And then inclusion really is the "how." So "How do I make that mix work?" You know? "If diversity is the "who" in the mix, how do I make the mix work?" To quote my friend Tyrone Studemeyer, who is, like, a great chief diversity officer. He always uses that example. In fact, he brings a glass of milk on stage and pours in chocolate sauce, and then he stirs it, and he has this bit that he does. So it's making the mix work, and honestly's that's really where behaviors come into play. And so it's how--once you have that talent around the table, how do you make them want to stay? How do you include them, and how do you make them feel that they're valued? And so inclusion is the how and the behaviors. And then intersectionality, something totally different. It is the mix, I guess, of diverse identities that make some of us who we are and kind of present unique challenges. Traditionally defined by Kimberle Crenshaw, of course, it's the mix of multiple stigmatized identities that one person may carry. So why that's important is that I think, you know, anyone who looks at gender issues, for example, as a white women's topic, is not taking into consideration how women of color are impacted differently, how being an LGBTQ woman may mean that you're not only dealing with your gender and all the headwinds that come along with that, but you're dealing with the headwinds relating to sexual orientation. Or say you have, you know, a non-binary gender expression, or you are a woman of color and some of those things at the same time, or a woman with a disability. So it just goes on and on, and that's a very helpful thing for the rest of the world, I think, to help people understand the levels of--and I would use privilege with a small P. I know that word sets some people off, you know, but I think we have to be realistic about some of us walking through the world feeling a lot safer and a lot more protected, a lot more supported. You know, right? Like, a lot more--that others are more comfortable with us because they're relatively more familiar with us, and the sort of further you get away from I guess the straight white male norm that is, like it or not, the whole of the top leadership in the business world. The further you get from that, I think the more difficulty you have in kind of seeing yourself in workplaces, in being supported, grown, invested in, welcomed, proactively fostered. You know, all of the things that really, like, pull you up in an organization. So, you know, when you're different in multiple ways, it's kind of difficult to ever feel that you're in that--in the place you should be in the machine that is the workplace. So, you know, this is where people fall out. They quit. They can't stand it anymore. [laughs] You know, they go and become entrepreneurs, which is great, you know, but sad for corporations and large employers because, of course, you know, you're bleeding out all of your diverse talent because your culture is sort of something that people can't stand. That's a problem. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] No, you're absolutely right, and it's interesting, right, because I was just having a conversation with a couple of close friends this morning, and I was talking about the fact that a lot of times, you know, when we talk about D&I in the most common contexts, it almost feels like some--like, really a competition between white men and [white women] for number one, and then kind of everybody else falls to the wayside. Right? Like, we don't necessarily have, like--I don't know if I'm necessarily always hearing, like, truly intersectional discussions around identity. I don't know, and I don't know if black women are often centered in those discussions. Of course in the past couple years we've seen, like, more and more content come out about it, so don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer, but at the same time--Jennifer: [laughs] But you're right.Zach: [laughs] I mean, here's a great example, right? So I think it was--yep, Indeed. So Indeed just dropped a commercial, and there was a--the setting was, like, a board room, right, and in the board room, a white man was in the front and he was getting a promotion, right? And, like, the boss was shaking his hand, and everybody was clapping, and then there was a white woman, and she was just kind of standing there, and it was clearly--like, by the framing, right, of the commercial, that she was passed over for this promotion and that the white man got the promotion over her, right? And I was like, "Okay." And so then she looks down at her phone, and she kind of smirks because she gets a notification she's getting an interview, you know, somewhere else, right?Jennifer: [laughs] Oh, my gosh.Zach: Right? So she's like, "I'm leaving," and then it said, "Indeed." You know? I was like, "Okay, cool." So great commercial, but what's interesting about that commercial was behind the white woman--and I don't believe they did this intentionally, but maybe they did--and if they did, yo, they are super cold--but there was a black woman and a black man out of focus right behind them. And so it was, like, super interesting.Jennifer: [sighs] Oh, goodness. Wow. Oh, somebody needs to give that feedback. I'm sure they've heard about it already. [both laugh]Zach: But, like, the idea that a lot of times we talk about D&I, right, it's often centered around gender. We're not having really authentic discussions outside of that. And so a question for you - you know, in your book "Inclusion: Diversity, the New Workplace & the Will to Change," you discussed the nuances of privilege. And you just talked about lower-case privilege, lower-case P privilege. And to make an effort not to vilify white men who have, quote, "seemingly won the privilege lottery." Is it possible to manage the egos of leaders who are in the majority while also having frank and accountable discussions about empowering black and brown professionals or just non-white professionals in the workplace? You know, in your work, what does that process look like? To establish trust for those discussions.Jennifer: Yeah. I mean, that is really the work, and it's--I think it's, like, the third rail, honestly. It's funny - being in the LGBTQ community, there's a level of--strangely, a level of comfort and acceptance of talking about being "I'm a proud ally," you know, or putting that rainbow sticker on your desk or in your email signature. And it's fascinating to me because--by the way, the LGBTQ conversation is also not properly intersectional, right? So there's privileged dynamics playing out in my--this community. I was going to say "my" community. One of my communities, you know, that women's voices aren't well-heard. People of color and the LGBTQ community, trans people, are not well-heard and are not represented in leadership positions in the workplace when it comes to affinity groups and things. So each community has its kind of diversity within its diversity challenges. [laughs] So I just wanted to make that point, because--I often say, "Just because you carry a marginalized identity, or even two, does not make you an inclusive leader."Zach: That's so true.Jennifer: Like, I wish it were true, but it's not, and it's been proven to me over and over again that, you know, I've made that assumption, and I've kind of been wrong. Like, I've been shocked by what people say. So, like, these--like, a lack of that intersectional lens and that inclusive lens can live in all of us, by the way. Elitism and, you know, that blindness and bias. Unchecked. Anyway, that's one point I wanted to make. So how do we center more black and brown voices when the leadership of so many companies--and when you say they are the majority, we always have to clarify. I say majority in leadership positions, because if you look at the aggregate in most companies, of course, women are the majority. Zach: That's absolutely correct, yeah.Jennifer: Right, and then a lot of ethnic diversity lives in different functional areas of the business and, you know, whatever, right? But it just totally thins out, like, when you go up the org chart, right? So the problem is all the power lies with a sort of very homogeneous group, and so the onus is on that group to acknowledge that the world is more and more black and brown, right? That they have to build that confidence and cross those bridges of understanding, and they have to know how to build trust with their workforce. Both current and future, by the way, which is most likely not going to look like them. And then they've got to do it in such a way that they--that then their employee and their leadership base looks like the world that they serve, which is increasingly female, right? Think about the buying decisions. Think about the exploding buying power of the black community. The LGBTQ community is now a trillion-dollar buying power. I mean, it's massive. So any brand that's worth anything, and any leader that's worth anything, must look at this, should look at this, and say, you know, "My demographic group--maybe it was okay for me not to understand what keeps people in the organization I'm a part of or keeps people on my team or how to be a good colleague and sort of step out of my shoes and think about what the other person's experience is like, but I better search and pay attention to this." So my argument is always I throw the business case to people, the demographic argument to people. Sometimes it's a moral argument. Sometimes somebody, you know, has kids of a different race than they are. Sometimes they have lots of daughters. Like, sometimes, you know, they have a unique view on all of this, and so when you, you know, [see?] somebody that looks like a white, straight guy, you know, you just never know what their diversity story might be, and I've been just shocked and reminded that, you know, I can--I can walk in a room and people assume I know nothing about this topic, you know? And that's happened to me. I've been on the receiving end of that. And there are things I don't know, for sure, but I desperately want people to listen to me and somehow kind of wedge my way in and make them listen and convince them and all of those things. So being LGBTQ helps with that. So I'm this interesting hybrid of, you know, being of an identity that people are more comfortable with, like, based on maybe what they see, but then coming out and challenging them to the point where, like, you can hear a pin drop when I do that, and that's kind of--let me tell you, it's pretty uncomfortable when you're standing there in front of, like, 1,000 mostly men in, like, light blue shirts and khakis. You're like, "How is this gonna go?" [laughs] So it takes--for all of us, you know, I think it takes bravery to show ourselves. For some of us with invisible aspects of diversity, it takes kind of a unique kind of bravery to be like, "No." Like, "Make no mistake, this is actually who I am." And particularly if it's a vulnerable aspect of who you are. It can feel really risky. That could include, like, divulging about a disability or, you know, mental health and addiction issues, or age, you know? There's just this, like, widespread hesitation to bring our full selves to work on so many counts, but when you are black and brown of course the issue can be "I can't opt not to show who I am." Like, "Who I am is often visible," and it will trigger the biases if those are there, right? And so it's a conversation we always have about--it's not the pain Olympics, and that's so important to remember. Like, that it's not--it's not a race to the--through the oppression hierarchy to say--Zach: Right.Jennifer: Right? Because that's a useless conversation. I think we have to think about, like, what are the--what's the damage that happens when, you know, we feel shame, or we feel compelled to downplay who we are, even if it's very visible to others? And how can we support each other's voices and create that safety for each other? And that's what I think about every day. Like, if I have been given some kind of privilege with a small P [in] several ways that has been totally unearned by me--my obsession is, like, what responsibility and opportunity does that come with? Which is interesting, because I'm in the LGBTQ community, which is so used to needing that allyship, right? We think about--we struggle to bring our full selves and be comfortable, and we hide, you know? And so allies really bring us out, you know? They stand alongside us and say, "Hey, I'll tell your story. I'll be next to you. I'll have your back." It feels amazing to have that, and I know what that feeling feels like, and so I am turning around and, like, trying to do that for others with my people, which often is my lovely, often good-hearted, you know, white, straight male executive clients, you know, to say, "How can we help you bridge to the future?" Because opting out is not--that's not an option, you know? I think--and the more clued-in ones know this, and I think people are mostly feeling just, like, really--like, wanting to do more, very awkward, very afraid. I know in the light of MeToo, just purely a gender conversation, the--you know, that lean-in research that came out a couple months ago that says that, like, male leaders are, like, even more afraid now to be in these one-on-one scenarios with female mentees or colleagues, and it's really discouraging, and it's definitely going in the wrong direction, but I think that fear is probably bigger than just cross-gender. I think that it's just kind of any moves you might make to say, "Hey, I want to be an inclusive leader. I'm gonna mess up. I'm gonna say the right thing. I really, really want to be better, but how am I gonna learn this thing that I'm gonna get wrong, and where am I gonna learn it? And how am I gonna know that I'm getting it wrong? And then how am I going to be given a chance to develop better skills?" And that's a very legitimate question. So I think we've got to all kind of give each other a lot of berth and also proactive support these days to learn, and we've got to do that in partnership with each other, because otherwise we're learning in a vacuum, and that's hard to do.Zach: It's so complex though, right? Because it's like--like, there has to be space for grace, and then there also has to--like, on both sides, because there's grace for you to learn--there's grace for me to give you space to learn, but then there's also--there has to be humility for you to receive that learning, right? And then there needs to be empathy on the person who is learning for their teacher in that there is a level of emotional labor, right, that goes into me even talking to you about this at all, right? I had a conversation with some colleagues, like, about a month or so ago, and I was like, "Look." Like, something happened, and, you know, it was an educational discussion, and in part of my conversation I said, "Hey, you know, I don't talk about this because it's exhausting." I said, "But being in these majority-white spaces--just me being here is exhausting," and I explained that to them, and I said, "It's not just me. It's exhausting in some way or form or shape for someone in a minority to engage in majority spaces." Like, it is, and so, like, for the people that are doing the work to educate and train and teach or even partner--like, that's--like, there needs to be some empathy on that part, you know what I mean?Jennifer: Yeah. Well, we talk a lot about compassion fatigue, and I think that--and then us being asked to step forward and represent an entire community and their experience, which you and I know is never gonna be accurate. You're just one person talking about your experience. Zach: Right. Not [?], right.Jennifer: Right, but what you're talking about is something--what I say in my next book, right, "How to Be an Inclusive Leader," is that you need to do 80% of the emotional labor yourself before you ask someone to help you on your journey. Zach: Oh, I love that.Jennifer: It's so important, yes. And so for me, what that looks like is I intentionally consume certain media, for example. I listen to certain podcasts. I watch certain films. I acquaint myself with cultural norms across communities that are not mine, right? And in some cases it's a struggle through some of that media, because that media is not built for you. It's not a conversation for you, right? [both laugh] And I've had white friends, and I talk about, like, a podcast we may love. Like, one I love called "Still Processing." I don't know if you know it.Zach: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. "Still Processing" is fire. Shout-out to y'all, yes.Jennifer: Oh, it's so good. So good. And they're queer too. Like, I just love them. I mean, talk about intersectional. They're brilliant. And anyway, I sometimes have a hard time keeping up with it, but also getting all of the cultural references--and sometimes even I will feel, "Gosh, I'm such an outsider, and this is so uncomfortable for me, to try to hang in with the conversation." And then I say to myself--and this is what I say to leaders--"Notice the discomfort, because this is what other people feel every single day in majority-white spaces." Every day of their lives, right? Zach: Right. [laughs]Jennifer: Like, you're uncomfortable for one second, right? Like, get used to it. Like, you should be putting yourself in this discomfort all of the time, because this is the competency. Like, this is the skill that you need to learn so that you get some iota of empathy for what it feels like every single day for other people. The other thing I wanted to say is we just had an LGBTQ--we called it LBTQ. It was just for women actually, so we dropped the G. [laughs] Which was--you know, people can have issues with it, but we dropped the G. It was just meant for Q-identified women. And we had this big conference, and we asked--we had a TON of diversity on the stage, which was my commitment, and we had a couple activists that were trans women of color, and they said, "I will come, but I want you to know, like, Pride is exhausting for me." It was in June. "It's exhausting for me. It's exhausting for me to walk into corporate spaces, to educate, to be that voice on stage, and I'm sort of doing this, but I want you to know it's, like, a lot of labor for me," and I want I guess for all of us that put panels together, for all of us that are speakers and on panels--it was such a learning for me to understand that when you ask someone, you're trying to be inclusive, but it is so seen through this lens of "Oh, I can take the day and go speak at this conference 'cause I work for myself," or, you know, "I'm an activist or an advocate." Like, an activist doesn't always look the same or have the same level of privilege or income. What is the lost income from taking a day out to go into a space you're not comfortable in and educate people about your experience? Like, it was really humbling. And what we ended up doing, by the way--and this may be helpful advice--is for all the speakers, that day we had 30 speakers, we really want to intend that we take up--we have a stipend and honorarium for people who take the time out to come into that space. There's a question of real money, you know, to offset that time and that labor. And again, this was another kind of learning for a lot of privileged people of the privilege that allows them to come in and speak all of the time on things that have a full-time job, you know, that have benefits, you know, that aren't witnessing, you know, the really, really painful reality of certain parts of our community every day. I just thought it was a really interesting demonstration within a marginalized community of sort of the gulf in our experiences, right, even within LBTQ women. So I think being mindful of intersectionality all of the time, it's incumbent--it's incumbent on anybody who has that platform, that voice, that comfort to whatever degree, to ensure spaces are diverse, to ensure voices are elevated, to center stories that aren't our own, and to make sure that those stories are given the proper platform and that people aren't overly requested to give up their time and education. But that means that each white person, each man, you know, when they support gender equality, I would ask, like, "What are you reading? What research do you have under your belt?" Like, "How are you exercising your muscle to show up in allyship, and what are you doing?" And then, and only then, can you ask for tweaks and feedback from people in affected communities. You know, "Did what I say resonate?" "Did the story--did I do this justice?" "Did I use my voice in the right way?" "What more could I have done?" Like, "What feedback would you have for me?" That can be asked, but so much has to be done and earned before that. And then--you know, and then bring somebody in to give you that feedback and make you better, because, you know, without that feedback I can promise you people aren't gonna get better, and they're just gonna keep stumbling, and stumbling is not good for anyone. [laughs] It's humiliating.Zach: No, you're absolutely right. [laughs] The thing about it is there's nothing--so I think the only thing worse than being loud and wrong is being really polished and wrong, right?Jennifer: Ooh, that's interesting.Zach: Right? It's like, you know, you're talking, you got the presentation, and, you know, you got your little clicker, and you got your three points and your--[both laugh] And your pantsuit looks great, but you are wrong.Jennifer: Oh, my gosh. It's in the corporate speak.Zach: Right, it's in the corporate speak, but--Jennifer: People can see through it.Zach: But you're absolutely wrong. And your earlier point about Pride, yeah, and, like, this past year was so big because it was the 50th anniversary of Stonewall, and it's interesting 'cause you talked about--you were talking just a bit about, like, the dissonance there and, like, the emotional labor for everyone who is a minority, but then specifically we're talking about trans activists, and it was so interesting because--I believe it was on the 30th. Like, right at the end of Pride there was a situation at Stonewall Inn where, you know, there was a desire from a trans women to speak up. She wanted to talk a little bit about the day and just reflect, and she was shouted down.Jennifer: No.Zach: Yeah, by gay men who were there in names of, "Hey, we just want to party. We don't want to hear all of that," and then eventually she was able to speak, and she spoke for about 12 minutes, but it was just really interesting. She read the names of the black trans women who died and facts and the disproportionate abuse and oppression that black trans women have and continue to face, and so you're absolutely right. Like, and I think it's incredible. I have yet to have the privilege to directly interview a black trans activist. Like, that's actually a serious [goal] of mine.Jennifer: I can hook you up.Zach: Well, let's do it. Let's talk about that after the interview. For sure.Jennifer: [laughs] Yeah, for sure. So yeah, it's been such a learning for me. And this is why I feel so--the ally energy in me these days, even in the LGBTQ community technically that I'm in, I feel so activated as an--and I don't even want to say, like, "I am an ally," because we're only allies when others give us that--give us that name and that honor, right? But I'll tell you, whether it's me as a cis woman--you know, I spend my time on the keynote stage asking people in the audience, "How many of you know what I mean by sharing our pronouns and why it's important? And how many of you know what cisgender means?" And sharing my identity and coming out as cisgender so that--and sharing my pronouns so that I'm not acting like heterosexuality and cisgenderness is normal, you know? We have to make it visible in order to even point out to people that this--we shouldn't be assuming this is normal, and you shouldn't be walking around every day assuming everybody shares your identity. Like, and we've that. I mean, so many of us have been so comfortable and--you know, I'll share it. You know this statistic probably, but it's so startling that 1 out of every 5 people under 34 is non-cis and non-straight. So 1 out of 5. So as you walk around your life, as you hire people, as you work with teams, as you meet customers, 1 out of 5, and yet the chances are that they're hiding that from you and they're not comfortable for you. So what can you do to say, "Hey, this is a safe place. I am someone that you can bring your whole self to me, around me, and I will see you, and I will be not only just open to it, but I will be embracing of it, and I won't assume that you're like me." You know, "I will give you the chance to self-identify," and I will self-identify. I will be brave in doing that, because, like, I'm not gonna put all the burden on you to talk about your experience, but I'm not gonna remain silent and not talk about mine." It's funny, because I get a lot of questions afterwards. People come up to me and say, "How do I start that conversation with someone?" To say, "Hey, I'm doing my work. I'm trying to learn. I want you to feel comfortable. What would you like me to know?" And we sort of walk through, like, "How do I even start that conversation?" Because people are really--they just don't know how to begin, and they don't know whether it will come across as authentic, and they're worried they're gonna be out of their depth really fast. [laughs] Which, by the way, they will be. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] You're absolutely right, but I think it's the internal getting yourself comfortable with being uncomfortable and being comfortable with being ignorant, and ignorant truly meaning just not knowing, and seeking to learn, right? Like, MLK Jr. talked about this. Like, he was quoted saying something like, "White people, as part of their superiority, think that they have so very little to learn when it comes to--" Like, just race, matters of race, and I think that can be extended and expanded, right? That if you're a part of a majority, a part of a privileged class, it's easy for you to think that you just--you don't need to learn, but being curious, right, and seeking to understand is, like, one of the greatest signs of humility, and really it's endearing. Like, the right people, in my experience--when I come to people and I say, "Hey, I really just want to understand. I want to learn from you. I genuinely want to learn." Those discussions go well, because they--Jennifer: They do.Zach: Right? They go well, because you're humbling yourself to listen and to receive. You talked about the statistics, about 1 in 5 today, [and] I think that really leads me well into the next question. So a good deal of your book discusses the future of work and the role inclusion will play. What are your predictions on how organizations will need to adapt to attract future diverse talent in the next 10 years?Jennifer: Oh, my gosh. Well, they're all, like, woefully behind already and have been. [laughs] It's like the ostrich with its head in the sand. I think, you know, when business is good and the economy is good, it covers--it's like high tide, you know? It covers up a lot of things that low tide reveals. And I think a lot of people are too comfortable. You know, I just think that business leaders in particular--and to your point that you just made, right? If life is working out for me, like economically I'm comfortable, I'm not afraid of, you know, being pulled over, you know, as I'm driving. I'm not afraid for my child in the world. You know, all of those things that are blind spots for some people. You can kind of sail on through life and through your work in being a leader, believe it or not, and not really be held accountable for a lot of these things. People deny that it's an urgent situation, but I see it as a really urgent situation, that the fact that, you know, the number of women and people of color at certain levels in companies--which I'm kind of obsessed with the mid-level, because the mid-level is where people--they're really tired of hanging on, like, white-knuckling it up the pipeline, trying to, you know, get supported, get promoted, get--you know, have somebody take an interest in them, have somebody run interference for them. You know, when you're undermentored and undersupported, and then you're underrepresented as well, and you look around, and you look up, and you don't see anyone that--you know, we say "you've got to see it to be it." You know, you get tired, and it's no wonder to me that the numbers and the representation of anyone who's not a straight white male have been kind of really flatlined, you know? And even the best and most progressive companies are really struggling to hold onto people, to raise them up to the level where I want to see them, right? Which is the executive level, because then they can make all--a whole world of difference, you know? An executive leader can, with one signature, you know, create a policy or address the pay gap, you know? They have so much power. Or hold a customer accountable, or take a stance on a political issue in social media. And so if people can't make up there, and we decide to bail out because it just proves too arduous and we're just, like, physically tired, and we're emotionally tired, and the compassion and fatigue and the emotional labor and all of it, being the spokesperson for an entire community. It becomes too much, and, you know, then we leave and we create our own businesses, which is a great solution, which was, you know, the thing I did. [both laugh] You know, 'cause I was like, "This is not gonna work for me." But that's a loss, because not everybody is set up to be an entrepreneur. You know, you need a lot of capital. You need--we talked about privilege. You know, you need certain things in place in order to make that work, and it's just not tenable for most people. So workplaces have to work for people, for all of us. So the future of work, you know, I get asked a lot about quotas and targets. I personally--I hesitate to say this, like, super publicly because companies are really twitchy about requirements and quotas, and you get a lot of pushback, but I'm honestly--I'm at a point where I feel like if people are left to their own devices change doesn't happen, and if change does happen it's slow and it's not widespread, and it's too slow to make a meaningful difference in the short amount of time we have to really see change.Zach: Absolutely.Jennifer: I mean, I think the house is on fire. [laughs] You know, I think economically people are falling behind. They're not getting promoted. They're therefore missing out on economic growth and opportunity and wealth, and, you know, I'm just not seeing it, when the world is changing so fast and companies are not keeping up with it. And so is the bottom line impacted? Is ROI measured? You know, we really--we have to have, like, an honest conversation about losing customers and clients and people leaving the organization, and companies have to wake up and say, you know, "If we don't do something really serious about this, we're gonna be sitting in the same exact place in 10 years." So, you know, I'm all for the more radical solutions. You know, I think--honestly, I think slates, interview slates, need to have a required number of women on them and a required number of people with diverse ethnicities. LGBTQ is tough because we don't disclose. So the companies I work with struggle with something called self-identification. We don't trust our companies--and this just speaks volumes--we don't trust our companies enough to check a box about who we really are, so we can't be counted. [laughs] So we--so, you know, there has to be, like, faith that we exist in organizations upwards of maybe 10% of the population, because we're only--on paper, we're only recorded at, like, 1%.Zach: Yeah, and that's just not accurate, right?Jennifer: No, it's not accurate, but we're doing that because we're terrified, you know? We're terrified of losing our job. We're just--even in the best companies. And that's true for people with disabilities too, but I think [some] companies have to [?], and I think they're gonna get pushed back. If they roll things out like this, they're gonna get a lot of pushback. People are gonna say, "I don't want to be forced to--" You know, "I believe in a meritocracy, and I want to hire the best person for the job, and you can't force me to hire a candidate that's less than," and my answer to that is if you did a good job of having enough of a pipeline of all kinds of talent, it wouldn't just be one candidate you're looking at and you're feeling like somebody, you know, is forcing you, holding your feet to the fire to hire them. You would have lots of choices. And so we've got to do a better job of filling that pipeline, keeping people in the pipeline, not letting them leave, and investing in them so that they feel they can thrive at a company long-term instead of wanting to bail out because they can't stand it out anymore, you know? That's just a sad commentary on workplace culture, but unfortunately I think it's the experience of tons of people that I talk to.Zach: The thing about it is the challenge with it is like--your earlier point around change, like, not--you know, that if left to its own devices will happen so incrementally, so small, that it won't be--it won't have--Jennifer: So slowly. It won't be meaningful. It won't even be big enough, yeah.Zach: And I think when you look at American history and you look at the history of civil rights in this country, it's really--I don't know if we have, like, a tangible example of truly radical sustained change from a culture perspective in this country. I think when you look across--especially when you look at, like, this current presidency, it's actually forced a lot of people to really, like, look at the history of race relations in America, especially if you want to examine, like, the past 55, 60 years, and you look at--and if you look at, like, the economic positioning of blacks today versus blacks in 1967, you know, you don't see the needle moving much at all. In fact, in a lot of areas you see the needle moving down. So it's interesting, so I 100% agree with you that there needs to be some genuinely radical--I'm gonna use the word again, radical--change in thought in terms of just what it's gonna look like, because--and we talked about this in another interview too. We talked about the future of work and we talked about the future of learning and education. You know, as the economy shifts and changes and more and more folks are not going to school, because school is going to continue to get more expensive and--like, all of that, it's gonna create a completely new environment that I don't know if we're really taking the time to really examine and consider. Jennifer: I know. We're still having the conversation with managers to say, "Hey, don't hire from the school you went to. That's bias." Zach: Right. [laughs]Jennifer: You know, literally that's where we are. But you're talking about, like, the 3.0, which is literally that people are not gonna have these traditional college degrees or any degree. They'll go to trade school or whatever it is. Like, they're gonna have completely non-traditional backgrounds. They will have been, you know, previously incarcerated. They will be, you know, of different statuses, and we have to figure out--like, workplaces need all the talent they can get, and yet they're completely behind in terms of how they seek that talent, where they look. People, like, throw their hands up so too easily, you know? They just say, "Oh, we just couldn't find anyone." [laughs] You know, it's just, like, endless, the stories I hear. And I don't know. It's laziness. It's--I don't even know. I mean, it depends on the day, like, how cynical I am about it all, but I don't know. [laughs] I just am like, "Really?" Like, if you really wanted to find people, they're there, and I--believe me, 'cause I'm on Twitter, and, like, Black Twitter is on fire. Like, you know, the number of angel investment groups, the number of VCs, the number of start-ups, the number of black girls who code. Like, there's such a great community to recruit from, and I just--I wonder, like, what is it--what is it that people aren't doing or won't do? Like, what is the hold up?Zach: Oh, no, 100%. You know what, Jennifer? I'ma say this. Hold on. You know what? You're a real one. I appreciate you. That's a really good call-out, 'cause you're absolutely right. Like, Black Twitter is poppin,', and, like, there's so much--there are so many pools, right, of talent for you to engage in. There's Black Code Collective, like, in D.C. Like, there's all types of stuff. Like, there are people--and, like, to your point around, like, how people are learning today, there are people who went to culinary school and then, like, are now learning how to code, and, like, they're good at it, right? There are communities now that will welcome you in for free. You will--you can learn, and you can genuinely understand and learn how to code. And so there's plenty of opportunity to deepen your pipeline, so yeah, that's a really good point. There are things that people either aren't doing or are choosing not to do, but the talent is definitely out there. You know, you talked about cynicism. I think that really leads to my next question. Like, can we take a step back and just talk about, like, D&I, or I&D, as an industry, right? Jennifer: Oh. [laughs]Zach: [laughs]Jennifer: Speaking of cynicism, I think I know where you're going with this. I'm ready to go there with you too, so I think I know. [both laugh]Zach: So there's a growing sentiment, right, that the largest voices who are advocating for diversity and inclusion in highly-visible or corporate/corporatized spaces are themselves members of the majority and, by relation, have some inherent blind spots within the subject matter that they espouse expertise in. Do you find any merit to that concern? And, like, what have you done to challenge your own blind spots? You spoke to this a little bit earlier, but I'd love for you to expound on that and if you have any other advice you would give to others.Jennifer: Hm, that is such an interesting observation. It's funny, because I could make the counter-argument that I think we're in a time--like, you ask any white diversity leader right now, and their credibility is questioned on a daily basis to be in the role they're in. Like, that is the truth. In fact, they get, like, threats.Zach: Really?Jennifer: Yeah. I've seen some people get some serious heat just for having the audacity of even having the position or accepting the position.Zach: Oh, wow.Jennifer: Yeah. So there's many stories, right, on all sides of this issue, and like I said, I think--I don't know if I said it earlier, but when you're a marginalized community, it also doesn't mean that you're a great leader on inclusion necessarily. Zach: That's true, yeah.Jennifer: Because I've seen plenty of--you know, like, we were talking about white gay men at Stonewall who were--you know, can be, like, very misogynistic, very racist, very--and so, you know, that can carry forward into a diversity leader role, but that doesn't mean that all of them are totally, you know, not effective practitioners, and it also doesn't mean because you're a person of color that you're an effective practitioner, right?Zach: That's right.Jennifer: So to me--and you respect this--it's a skill set, you know? It is a skill set, but it is also your identity, right? And it's how you deal with your identity in the world, and it's how you integrate those two things that makes you an effective voice. But also you've got to be an incredibly savvy change agent to have these roles. I mean, they're very difficult roles. They're some of the most complex roles that exist, I think, in business, because it's part influencing, it's part executive, you know, believability, credibility. It's passion. It's change agility. It is storytelling, right, and being, like--but incredibly data-oriented and, you know, convincing, and knowing the business so that you can make the business case, right? So you need to know the business you're in in order to make the argument for D&I, and you've got to be able to do all of those things. And by the way, you're probably part of a marginalized community, and you're dealing with all of the biases personally, like, that you're getting, at the same time as you're leading an entire institution, like, through this morass, you know? Through these really difficult, tense, and, you know, complex times. So it's really, like, one of the toughest roles, and I have so much respect--I worry about our practicioner community, both on the consulting side but really our internal--my internal clients, 'cause they're just--they're holding up, you know, this planet, you know, these giant organizations. Anyway, but to answer your question [of] "Who's allowed and who has permission to do this work?" It's a very good question. I mean, I've even questioned--you know, 'cause somebody hasn't dug into who I am and has judged me just based on what I look like, and that's okay. I mean, I would say, you know, it hurts me, but whatever. Like, that doesn't matter. It's most important, I think, for us not to judge each other, I think for us to look at the skill set objectively, but I do think the optics of people in these roles are important. You have to be, like, a really amazing, humble leader. Like, you have to be--you have to be really deep in the work, I think, to take on that role as a majority identity. If you're a--say you're a white guy. I don't know a lot of white straight guys in these roles. I do know white gay guys, and they--every day their privilege is pointed out to them. Every day. Nobody lets them forget, you know, that they are--that they have an enormous responsibility in that role and that, like, they have a lot of work to do. And if you talk to any of them--and I know some of my clients are of that identity, and it's a tough lift for them. I know some straight white women, and again, they are pretty enlightened people, and they're very humble, and they're very, like--they've been studying this for a long time. Some of them have sort of really personal relationships. I know a lot of gay white women actually in these roles, and they--and sometimes I know gay women of color in these roles, and they're amazing. I mean, amazing amazing. Like, and the intersectionality they can bring to it is deep, and I find--not to say, you know, certain combinations of identities are, like, more important, but to be able to speak to so many different identities in your workforce in a direct way, you know, there's kind of--that's a wonderful shortcut, to be able to do that and on top of that be, like, somebody who's, like, been in HR for 20 years, you know, and is super savvy about playing the politics and all of the other things you need for the role, but I would like to think that we can all--we all have a role to play, and some companies are more embracing of--I will tell you some inside baseball. Sometimes I get asked to send, you know, a white man to a consulting engagement, and--that is true, you know, and talk to anyone in the work that I do, and they'll tell you that's [?]. And we will push back. We will say, you know, "We're not sure that's the right answer," and "Let's talk about it," and, you know, sometimes strangely it is the right answer for certain groups who have been really, really recalcitrant and resistant, and the messenger matters sometimes more than the message. Like, certain people can be heard in certain ways, and we know this is true. So we--that's why we have such tremendous diversity on our consulting team, because we just--we have to get creative sometimes and make sure that we build a pairing, for example, that's gonna be in front of a room that maybe the client is really, really struggling to be heard in front of this business unit or this team or this, you know, office in a certain region in the country, and we'll need to switch it out. You know, we'll need to put a different voice in front of people to see, you know, and sadly the messenger is something that needs to be considered. And I wouldn't let it rest, and I wouldn't not challenge it, but I do think we--we've got to use every change tool in our arsenal, particularly with those who are really resistant and really stuck and I think experiencing a lot of bias per the messenger that they're hearing the message from. And it's funny. You know, I have to be really careful. I can't be the angry--I have to be careful to not be the angry woman and the angry gay person, and I can't imagine what it would be like delivering that truthful message that I do and also being a person of color, right? I'm very aware that I have a lot more latitude for my quote-unquote passion to come through, right, and to be--and not to have it seen as being threatening, you know? Zach: Absolutely. And, you know, your point around, like, changing up the messenger and mixing it up, it's really interesting because in the work that I have done, I have a similar strategy--and it's interesting, because I do that without even being asked. Like, I'll just be like, "Look, I know that for this I just need to have a really approachable white face to deliver this message," and they're partners for me in that. And honestly, Jennifer, I do that even just at work. Like, if I have a big meeting--Jennifer: Of course. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] If I have a big meeting or, like, you know, there's just something going on and it's like, "Okay, I really want to share this thing, but I know that if I say it, then it's gonna get an eye roll or it's not gonna be heard, so let me go ahead and mobilize this white woman or this white guy."Jennifer: Your allies.Zach: Yes, and then I'll have them say it, or I will let them know that I'm about to say it. Jennifer: I wish that weren't true.Zach: Say that again?Jennifer: I just wish it weren't true, like, that you have to do that, and to me that's, like, the extra tax that we pay. You know, that's extra labor. You have to literally not only have the brilliant idea, but you have to, like, strategize about who is, like, sitting next to you or, you know, backing you up when you have a brilliant idea, or who's gonna echo your--you know, women deal with this, and we all know this is, like, a fact of life. But I appreciate what you're bringing up, that it's a universal experience for so many of us, and it's just--if we look at it on the bright side--let's, like, look at it as a glass half-full, which I always do. [laughs] You know, I think this all makes us really savvy, like, very emotionally intelligent, right? Because as limited as our audience might be in terms of seeing us, doesn't this make us--it sort of sharpens our saw. I mean, I think when you have to think about "How am I gonna get this group over the finish line?" Like, how am I going to get them to listen to me, to believe in what I say and to give me the credibility when I'm walking in the room and I know what they're thinking about me?" You know, "How am I gonna do that?" And to me it's, like, a--you know, it's a brain twister, but it makes you be very creative. And by the way, I hope in enlisting those allies that they know why they're being enlisted and that it really raises their awareness [of] the permutations that so many of us go through in the workplace to be heard. You know, that's--I hope that they're noticing that. Like, that's a really important learning, to be approached by someone--to say, "Hey, would you have my [back?] in this meeting? I'm gonna bring this up," and, you know, to me that is, like, such a sad commentary, and at the same time it's such a demonstration of how far we have to go for people to be heard and the space that we have to learn to hold for each other. Like, we've got to do that--you know what? We need to do that without being asked. That's where I really want to get, right? So that if I'm in this meeting and I hear you bring up this brilliant idea, you don't even need to ask me to have your back. Like, I am gonna instinctively know if you're talked over or if somebody steals your idea or somebody poo-poos it that I'm gonna intervene, and I'm gonna know what's going on, and that to me, that would be sort of nirvana in the workplace, that those pre-conversations, that pre-planning that you just described doesn't even need to happen because everyone knows it's an issue and everyone's on guard for it. Like, can you imagine? Like, if we were all like, "Oh, no, no." You know, "She is not gonna be talked over," or "His idea is not going to be dismissed," you know? "And I'm gonna quote it, and I'm gonna bring the attention back to him and, you know, his idea." It's like the women in the Obama cabinet. I love that story, where they literally decided, like, that this was not gonna happen anymore, and they all banded together and made the plan.Zach: Yes, I loved that.Jennifer: And then they went into--I know. And then they went into the meeting, and they all, like, echoed each other's ideas and mentioned each other by name and made eye contact with other women in the room. So they sort of redirected everybody's attention. I'm still--believe it or not, if I go into a meeting with my male colleague, they will talk to him. Like, it still happens to me. Oh, yeah. And I'm a CEO, and he works for me, you know? [both laugh] So yeah, it's still a thing. And he's really good, because he'll, like, redirect back to me. Zach: "Um, actually, Ms. Brown, what do you think?" [laughs]Jennifer: Yes. Well, he'll say, "Well, as Jennifer always says," right? "As somebody who is an acknowledged expert." I love that. [laughs] But yeah, we need to do that [?], and that would be nirvana. So I really talk about that a lot in my book. Like, the emotional labor of having to ask for help, I really, really wish more of us would know that help is needed. Like, we would know the data. We would know the research. You know, for God's sake, like, read the McKenzie report on women that they do every year. Zach: Oh, it's so good.Jennifer: Yeah, it's so good, and you'll realize that women of color have different headwinds than white women. Just that, you know? And if you go into meetings and you see this dynamic and you have any level of privilege, any level of positional power where you're listened to in a different way, you need to activate that so that you change those numbers and those outcomes. Like, you must do that. And it's such a small thing. This takes two seconds. Like, that's the thing when people are like, "Ugh, inclusion takes so much time, and I'm so busy, and I don't know how--it competes with the business priorities, and I have a long list, and, like, I'm already strapped for time." All of that--I don't think this takes a lot of time. It just takes a moment of attention to [bias?] your own others, a quick conversation to check in with somebody, a request for feedback, a "Hey, you know, I wanted to follow up with you after that meeting." Like, "I really thought your idea was great. I want to support you. How can do I do more of that?" That, like, takes two seconds to say, and like you said earlier, it's so welcome. Like, I think that's the--people are like, "I don't know how to start that conversation." [laughs] It's like, "Most of these conversations are, like, a gift to so many people who are never asked these questions to begin with," right? So please approach me. Ask me how can you support me more differently. What could you say in a meeting? What could you say after a meeting to someone when I'm not around? You know, I think that's the other piece, right? Like, give feedback to people that look like you. Like, I always say, you know, "Men listen to other men in a very different way." And so, you know, if you've got the privilege of being listened to. You know, the messenger, not just the message, and you can take the burden off of my shoulders to have a hard conversation with somebody, to say, "Hey, that joke made me uncomfortable." Like, that's a very risky move for me to do, 'cause I--you know, that is drawing attention to my difference. I have no idea how that person is going to react. And so I really--as a woman, I really appreciate men who proactively are like, "What can I do to--" Really it's kind of protect you in a way, and it's not protect in a sort of damsel-in-distress kind of way. It is literally--like, it could be protecting an idea. It could be making sure you don't fall victim to politics in the office. It could be that I represent you when you're not in the room and I talk about how brilliant you are, you know? It's that kind of thing, because otherwise we're sort of hanging out in the wind. And one of the things I always say is diverse talent is undermentored and very undersponsored, which means that we're not--we literally aren't looked after, like, informally. We are not--like, somebody's not like, "Well, let me have that career conversation with her to make sure that she's up for that role, so that she has P&L experience, so that she's then positioned so she can get that promotion," because there's all of these, like, unspoken and unwritten rules that we're not privy to when you're not in the power structure. So I often task people I speak to, like, "Look at the people you mentor. Look at the people you sponsor. Do they look like you?" You know, if they do, and you are a certain demographic, like, you must remedy that. Like, you've got to be mentoring across difference, sponsoring across difference, and--by the way, it should be reverse mentoring as well. It should be mutual so that you're learning--to your point earlier, like, how are you getting your learning about cultural differences? It's in the context of these really, really important one-on-one relationships. So wherever you can power share, wherever you can be influenced or learn somebody's experience, as a senior executive, your biggest risk is that you're isolated from all of this, and therefore you're not an effective leader. You're not positioning yourself for the future. You're harming your company, because you're setting this vision every day, but you--there's so much you don't know. So, you know, I think that's a good wake-up call for people usually. And if that doesn't work, [laughs] I don't know. I give up.Zach: [laughs] I don't know.Jennifer: I'm like, "I've given you now two books to read." You know, 63 podcast episodes. You know? Come on. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] "What more do you want more from me?"Jennifer: What more do you need? It's writing on the wall. Wake up, you know? Get with--get on the train, you know, and be willing to make mistakes as we were talking about earlier, and, you know, even know how to do a good apology, 'cause, you know, I think there is a real art to a real apology. I think you said earlier [that] there's nothing worse than somebody who, like, says all the right things but, like, in this really authentic kind of faux, polished way.Zach: Yes. You know what? We're gonna have to have you back just to talk about the topic of apologizing [?]. Like, for real.Jennifer: Yeah, right? I love that apology. I mean, I love that topic. Sorry.Zach: No, no, you're good.Jennifer: But a good apology can make up for everything, and it's almost like a required skill set, particularly for those in the majority, because things are gonna happen. Like, you're gonna mess it up. You are. And so being comfortable with uncomfortable, comfortable with hard feedback, and, to me, not slinking away into the corner but saying, "Thank you so much for that, and I'm gonna try it again, and I'm gonna do it differently." Like, wouldn't that resilience be really neat to hear and see in our leaders?Zach: It would. It would be great, and I think--you know, believe it or not I'm actually a little bit encouraged coming out of this conversation. This has been really good.Jennifer: [laughs] Really?Zach: Yeah, I am.Jennifer: Oh, that's good, 'cause we talked about some cynical stuff. [laughs]Zach: We did, we did, but it was real though.Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's such a mixed bag, but like you said earlier, like, we're living in really interesting times of awakening, and you're right--like, I think ever since the 2016 election I would say is when so many people and so many companies were like, "Oh, my goodness," you know? MLK Jr., "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." One of my favorite quotes, but guess what? We have to bend the arc. Like, the arc, it ain't gonna bend itself.Zach: Right? It don't just bend by itself. Right. [laughs]Jennifer: Like, that's the thing. So to me we've got to take that and bend it, and I think what we've realized is it's not this destiny, you know? Things aren't gonna happen without--and they aren't gonna happen because of good intentions. They're not gonna happen because we have maybe progressive values. They're not gonna happen because "Oh, I'm a male leader and I have daughters, so therefore, like, I am an expert on gender equality." No. Zach: Right. [laughs]Jennifer: No. Like, you have to do something, and you have to do something publicly, consistently, constantly. I used an example in a book of Marc Benioff, who is the CEO of Salesforce, who discovered he had a huge pay gap and literally wrote a check for $3 million, like, right away and was like, "I'm gonna gross up pay for people, because I'm not gonna let this stand another day, then we're gonna do the harder work," right? Which is rooting out, like, why did this happen in the first place. And then as he's done this--he does it every year now--they've discovered, by the way, pay gap--not just gender but ethnicity pay gaps. Not surprising.Zach: Right.Jennifer: And then they've acquired so many 10s of companies that also had pay gaps as Salesforce acquired them, and they had to do a new audit, you know, and to look at their pay gaps and, you know, gross it up. So, you know, literally there are people that are--that are just being relentless on this, because under their watch they're not gonna let this persist. And so I do see a lot of courage amongst leaders, and that leaves me really hopeful. I wish I saw it more, and I wish I saw it more publicly. I think there's a lot of really interesting conversations going on with privately with lawyers and, you know, the board and, you know, sometimes I'm privy to those, and I'm really, really heartened by the interest I see in the C-Suite. I have to say, people are getting it, and I think their question now is "How do we change it?" And that's a much harder question to answer when you're dealing with a giant organization that does business all over the world and has to contend with laws in various parts of the world, and, you know, it's hard to know where to start, and I think that's where people are at, that they want to start, and that's a relief to me. I mean, it makes my job easier because I'm not fighting the "Why is this important?" battle all of the time. I am now able to--we're able to, like, roll up our sleeves and consider, you know, "Okay, let's get started." And it doesn't need to be perfect. We're not gonna accomplish everything in the first year. I love that you want gender parity, you know, next year, [both laugh] but please don't shout that from the rooftops and promise it to your board, 'cause, you know, you have some problems, and you don't just want to fix things cosmetically. You really want to build it to last, you know? So I am hopeful too. I mean, otherwise I wouldn't be in this space. It'd be just too damn frustrating. [laughs]Zach: No doubt. Jennifer, this has been an amazing conversation, and I feel like we could keep on going, but before we go, do you have any parting words or shout-outs?Jennifer: Oh, my gosh. Well, can I give people the info about where to find me and my work?Zach: Do your thing. All of that. Let it go. Jennifer: Awesome. Awesome, awesome. Okay, so my new book is coming out August, "How to Be an Inclusive Leader." That's my second book. My first book is called "Inclusion," and it came out, as I said, in 2016. Good timing, at the end of the year. My podcast is called The Will to Change, and--I call it True Stories of Diversity and Inclusion. I've had some really amazing people on there. And on Twitter I'm @jenniferbrown. Yes, I've been on Twitter for ten years. I got my own name. It's pretty awesome. And I love--I love Twitter. I learned--like we talked about earlier--learned so much, so much, from those long threads where everybody's arguing about things. Like, read them, study them, listen a lot. You know, start to study your language and get ideas for how you should approach things. Twitter is great for that. And disturbing for all of the reasons that we know. @JenniferBrownSpeaks on Instagram, and then Facebook and LinkedIn I think I'm Jennifer Brown Consulting, but, you know, if people are interested in getting on our mailing list, please go to JenniferBrownSpeaks.com, and right on the homepage you can join. And please pick up a copy of the second book, which is really about the conversation that we had today. It's honestly about folks who are kind of sitting on the sidelines. How can you get into the fray, but in a thoughtful way, in a way that doesn't cause more labor for others? How do you get ready to apologize, because you probably will need to? [both laugh] But get in to the game, you know, even if it's in a very small way, even if it's in a private way. You know, just begin, and I think that if I could have more leaders sort of be less intimidated about the whole process and show a way forward--it's like, "Come in, the water's warm. You won't get--" "I hope you won't get hurt." [laughs] I know there might be some high feelings, but everyone is needed because the task is enormous. And so that's my goal, to kind of make it more comfortable for people to do more.Zach: So Jennifer, first of all, two things--we're gonna make sure we have all of the information in the show notes, so we'll make sure everybody goes there, and then we also on the website have our Favorite Things, and we'll make sure to have both of your looks listed as Favorite Things. So we got you. Jennifer: Oh, you're the best. Thank you.Zach: Yeah. Okay, well, Jennifer, we definitely consider you a friend of the show, and we can't wait to have you back. We'll talk soon. Jennifer: Count me in. Always. Thank you.Zach: All right. Peace.Jennifer: Peace.

On the fifth entry of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, touches on the subject of job search fatigue. Is it a real thing? The answer is yes. She shares a handful of helpful tips to keep your stamina up while job searching and more. Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. So if you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I'm here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking all about job search fatigue. Is it a real thing? The answer is yes. Job search fatigue is real - so, so, so real. So I want to give you all some tips on how to keep your stamina up during the job search. Some of you may be in the midst of looking for a job right now, and I'm sure you may be ti-red. After filling out 100 job applications, you finally get that one interview--and yes, it may take 100+ applications to get that one interview. And then check this out - by the time you finally get that interview, you're already worn down and tired and have no energy for the freaking interview. [laughs] Has anyone been there before? I know that I have. So job search fatigue is most definitely a real thing, and unfortunately it happens to the best of us. You can be extremely educated, qualified, great skill set, and still have to put in application on top of application on top of application just to get one interview. I really, really wish that this process was easier for all of us, but I think it is important to find healthy ways to cope with handling the job search and to understand that for some of us it takes a shorter time to find a job and for others it takes longer. As a career coach, I've had clients that have landed jobs in just a couple weeks to one month to even six months. So the first thing that I want you all to think about, especially if you are looking at jobs or applying to jobs right now, is identify what's causing that fatigue. Where is it coming from? Can you pinpoint the issue? Maybe, just maybe, it's the time of day you're applying. You know, if you're working a 9-to-5, and you come home from work and you just jump right into applying for jobs, you're probably tired from work and not really taking a break from getting off of work to going home and relaxing a bit before jumping into it. Or are you laying in bed, you know, up until midnight, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, just scrolling the job boards on your phone? So that's something to think about. What is the time of day that you're applying? Can you maybe apply to jobs before you go to work? Or maybe, you know, during your lunch break. Not at your desk. [laughs] I know how some of y'all do. Y'all be right at the office, at your desk, applying to jobs. [laughs] Maybe you're spending too much time. Maybe you're spending too much time applying to jobs. Yes, there is a thing as spending too much time applying to jobs. I'll talk about that in just a few moments. Maybe you're getting a lot of no's, you know? Maybe you're getting really discouraged and that's what's causing that fatigue. You're getting no after no. Sometimes you're not hearing anything back, or maybe you're hearing back from a job you applied to 2,000 years ago, right? And that can be extremely disheartening and discouraging. So I want to give you all some tips, just a few tips, on how to make this process just a little more easier. The first thing you want to do is you want to get organized in your job search. So when you're ready to start looking for jobs, when you have decided "You know what? I'm tired of this job that I have right now. I'm ready for something new, so let's do this thing," what is the first thing you do? Is the first thing you do go on these job boards and start looking at jobs and putting in applications? No. [laughs] The answer is no. You have to get organized first. When I say get organized first, I mean making sure you have the basics, right? Like, the basics that you have to submit for your application. That is your resume. If you need a cover letter--I do recommend cover letters as a career coach. It doesn't hurt to include one. They're not going to not give you the job if you don't include a cover letter, but most definitely the resume. You'll need to make sure your LinkedIn profile is updated, and you need to have an elevator speech, or what I like to call your career brand, identity, or story. Who are you? What about your experience makes you stick out amongst all the other candidates that are likely applying to the same job as you? But this is the most important thing you can do before you really jump right into the job search - know what jobs you actually want to apply to, and get specific. Get specific. For example, if you are in the, you know, finance industry, there is a million to one different types of jobs that fall under finance. [laughs] So it's important to know specifically what type of jobs that you're interested in, because if you just put in the keyword search "finance jobs," okay, you're gonna be getting a little bit of everything. So can you get more specific? Financial analyst. Maybe there's a specific type of financial analyst. Maybe you want to do financial planning, financial reporting. So it's important to think specifically about those job titles and those key words that you want to search for. If you want to even get more specific, maybe there's specific industries that you want to focus on. So if you can narrow it down, it's going to be super important. And another example is if you're in HR, there's a million in one jobs in HR as well. So do you want to be an HR generalist? Do you want to be in diversity, inclusion, and equity? Do you want to mostly focus on compensation and benefits? You know, these are things that are really important to know. How specific can you get? So once you get organized, you want to stay organized. What I mean by that is keeping up with your job search, with the jobs you're applying to, keeping track of your progress. One thing that I have my clients utilize during their job search is a job search tracker. Essentially, that is a spreadsheet--who doesn't love a good spreadsheet? [laughs] A job search tracker is a spreadsheet--or maybe you could use, you know, Google Docs or Microsoft Word or, you know, just something that will help you to keep up with the jobs you're applying to. The type of information that you will want to keep up with is the job title, the company name, the date you applied. You need to actually save the job description down, you know, like, in your own files. Copy and paste it into a Google Doc, a Microsoft Word document or something. Don't just bookmark the job description, because--and I may have mentioned this already, but what could happen is--let's say, you know, a company's only taking up to 100 applicants. Once they get that 100 applicants, they may close the job board and the job posting is down. So make sure you save it in a separate--in a separate file or folder for yourself. Anyways, in that job search tracker you'll have company, job title, date you applied. If you know the recruiter's contact information, keep up with that as much as possible, because what you don't want to happen is the recruiter calls you and says, "Hey, Joe. You know, I'm a recruiter with Such-and-such, and we're calling you about this job that you applied to," and then you've already applied to, like, 50+ jobs in the past day, so you may be on the phone like, "Uh, wait... who is this? What company? Can you tell me the job again?" [laughs] Right? That is definitely a turn-off to a recruiter. I'm a former recruiter, so I know. And that could be a sign of lack of interest if you don't remember. And I get it. Sometimes we're just out here applying to jobs because we just need a job, but you do definitely want to stay organized. You know, the other thing that you'll want to keep up with is your contacts, your relationships. Think about who's in your network, and go directly to the decision-makers, recruiters, the hiring managers, folks in HR that maybe know the recruiter. Or if you have a good referral at a company, that's great as well, but definitely start to keep track of, who you're talking to, what company they work for, what they do. Did they say they would put you in touch directly with someone? Do you need to follow up with them in a week or in a couple of weeks? The accountability is on you. It's not on your referral. So you definitely want to just know who you're talking to when you're talking to them and keep up with when you need to reach out and follow up again. You know, maybe you could include a reminder on your calendar to say, "Okay, let me make sure I touch base with Such-and-such at this company on this day." Put it in your calendar, right? So after you stay organized, or as you continue to stay organized, I want to talk about utilizing job boards. You don't need to use 10 different job boards. I promise you they may all have the same jobs. If you see that you're looking at the same jobs over and over and over again, it could be a few different things. Do you need to look at Indeed, Monster, Career Builder, Glassdoor, all of these sites? Do you need to look at all of them, or can you narrow it down to maybe two or three job boards? My personal favorite--well, I have two personal favorites, but my first personal favorite is Google. This is a new job board tool that they rolled out maybe just over a couple of years, where you can actually search in your Google Search bar the job title, the city, and it essentially will pull jobs from various job boards, that way you're not spending all of your time looking at multiple job boards. Google's great, and of course I love, love, love LinkedIn, because on LinkedIn it's going to connect you or show you who you can connect with who works at that company. So now that we've talked about utilizing the job boards, let's talk about alerts. Do you need to set up daily alerts, or do you need to set up weekly alerts? I promise you that these jobs are not going to grow legs and run away. Setting up daily alerts, especially if you're using multiple job boards, can be a little bit overwhelming, so maybe you set up daily alerts on just one or two job boards and maybe weekly on another, just to make sure that you're not missing anything. But just be mindful of that. The other thing with job boards is that you can search usually by two methods. You can search by relevance, and you can also search by date posted. If you find yourselves seeing the same jobs over and over and over again, maybe change your search from relevance to actually date posted. Depending on the job board that you're looking at, you can also search by jobs posted in the last 24 hours or in the last 48 hours. So that's something to think about. Next is find a hobby or launch a side project or learn a new skill. Just do something else outside of solely searching for jobs, or you will drive yourself crazy. It is important to have balance in this process, so find something that you actually enjoy doing that will allow you to take your mind off of the search just for a little bit, maybe even if it's volunteering. And get off of the computer. Go meet some folks in person. Do you ever sit in the house too long? I know that I do that, especially being an entrepreneur where I can work from wherever I want and I don't feel like going into the office. I may work from home three or four days in a row, and then I start to feel crazy because I need to be around people or I need some sunlight. [laughs] So get off the computer. Go meet folks in person. Get out of the house. Set boundaries with yourself. Give yourself certain times to apply to jobs. You don't need to look at jobs every second of the hour, and you can become obsessed with this to a point where it is unhealthy. Maybe there are certain locations in your home that you do not search for jobs in. I know for me I try really hard--[laughs] key word is try, but I try really hard to not work if I'm dead. You know, so when I get up, I make my bed, and--especially when I'm working from home, you know, I'll get dressed. I'll sit at my desk or at my table, and that is where I will work. So definitely set those boundaries with yourself. And then most importantly here is days. Take some days off. Like I said, these jobs aren't growing legs and running away from you. I guarantee you if you take one day off, even two or three days off, you won't be missing out on a job. Now, if a company is really posting a job and they take it down in 24 hours or in 48 hours, that probably wasn't the best job for you, but I promise you most of these companies out here are not putting jobs up that quick and taking them down. The only time where I've seen where companies have put up a job like that is because they have to do it for compliance reasonings and they may already know who they actually want to give the role to. So set those boundaries with yourself, as well as with those days. Make sure you take mental health days. Give yourself time to recharge, re-energize, refresh. Don't rush the process or stress yourself out. I promise you your job is coming, and when that job comes, you will know. So please be patient, be strategic, and--most importantly--stay positive. So that is all I have for today. Hope you all enjoyed it. If there's ever anything that you want me to talk about on here, from anything--career development, professional development, personal branding-related, feel free to reach out to me. You can find me on social media at @Latesha_Byrd. That is L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd. Well, thank you all, and again, this is The Link Up with Latesha and with Living Corporate. We'll see you next time. Thanks.

On the twenty-ninth installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield walks us through why LinkedIn is such an important platform for the modern professional and anyone trying to get into or grow within their field. He also shares a handful of statistics that help illustrate that fact.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What’s going on, y' all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week let’s talk about why LinkedIn is so important. Over my time doing this work, I’ve noticed that prior to working with me, many of my clients never fully understood LinkedIn and how it can help them. But if you talk to any career coach or resume writer they are going to tell you that you not only HAVE to be on LinkedIn but you have to have a BOMB profile and engage throughout the platform. So let’s walk through a few of the reasons why LinkedIn is so important. LinkedIn is the largest professional networking site on the internet boasting around 610 million members with around 121 million of those members using the site daily. According to a UMass Dartmouth study, 92% of Fortune 500 companies use LinkedIn. And LinkedIn states that there are around 90 million senior-level influencers and 63 million decision makers that use the platform. Based on those stats alone, I think it’s pretty clear that LinkedIn is a great place to not only grow your network, but your overall brand and thought leadership. No matter what company you want to work for, there is more than likely someone on the platform that works there or has worked there and that person could be a resource for you during your quest to land a job.To take this a little bit further, according to Jobvite, 77% of recruiters use LinkedIn for their social media–based recruitment efforts. While that number is down from 92% in 2017, that is still a TON of recruiters who are scouring the platform to find the perfect candidate for the jobs they’re trying to fill. You can easily miss out on all of those opportunities if you aren’t on the platform or if your profile isn’t updated often! Now, the last point I’m going to make is that LinkedIn is not only a networking site but it has its own job posting board with over 20 million jobs. There are also job search filters you can take advantage of to narrow your search by industry, function and experience. LinkedIn can also help you discover new jobs with instant job notifications, job title highlights and salary tools. Not to mention, quite a few jobs allow you to apply using your LinkedIn profile so you can say goodbye to all those crazy long job applications! Another great feature that many people aren’t aware of are the job seeking settings that LinkedIn has that allow you to let recruiters know you’re open to opportunities in various ways. I know I’ve thrown a lot at you, but these are only a handful of the reasons why LinkedIn is an important platform for the modern professional and anyone trying to get into or grow within their field. If you want to discuss how you can make your LinkedIn profile work for you, book a free consultation with me and let’s chat! This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach speaks with Tamara Fields, the Austin Office Managing Director at Accenture. She details her career journey to this point and offers her perspective on how organizations can make conversations and examinations around gender more intersectional and inclusive.Connect with Tamara on LinkedIn and Twitter!Search open positions at Accenture.com.Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, I've got some good news, I've got some great news, then I've got some sad news, okay? So if you didn't know, Living Corporate has been partnering with Accenture to present to y'all a leadership series, okay? These are the most experienced North American black and brown managing directors, okay? This is what I'm saying. If you look at North America for Accenture, and you were to say "Hm, where are all the executive leaders who are black and brown and, like, who is the most senior in that group, and what are their stories?" Living Corporate would be able to say, "Oh, you mean these people right here? We got 'em." So that's the good news. That's the great news. The sad news is this is the last entry for now of this leadership series, okay? And my hope is that you--first of all of course you listen to this one, but [that] you'll listen to all of them, because we've been honored to have some amazing guests, and our last guest is no less amazing - Tamara Fields. Tamara Fields is the Austin Office Managing Director at Accenture, where she is responsible for bringing innovation to clients, recruiting and retaining top talent, and strengthening Accenture’s relationship with the community. She has over 20 years of experience in the health and public service sector, driving creative, strategic, and transformative solutions for federal and state government clients via multilateral project management, contract management and HR and financial transformation. My goodness, gracious. Sound Man, give me the Flex bomb. Just give it to me right here. [Flex bomb gets dropped] My goodness, gracious. An advocate for inclusion and diversity, Tamara serves as the U.S. co-lead for Accenture’s women’s employee resource group and the inclusion and diversity lead for the Accenture office in Austin. Tamara also serves as a coach and mentor in and outside of Accenture, helping people find their voice and preparing them for career advancement. She speaks at conferences and summits, like Culturati and Texas Conference for Women, and was recognized with the 2018 Central Texas DiversityFIRST award for her commitment to I&D. She is Accenture’s executive recruiting sponsor for her alma mater, the University of Texas, and sits on the Red McCombs School of Business Advisory Council as well as the boards for the Texas Conference for Women and Paul Quinn College, a historically black college in Dallas. So shout-out to our historically black colleges in Dallas. So I'ma go ahead and put the air horns right here [they drop], and I'ma give you that Cardi B "ow" right here as well [Cardi B “ow”], because shout-out to y'all. Love y'all. Now, look, with that being said, the next thing you're gonna be hearing is the interview that I had with Tamara Fields.[pause]Zach: Tamara, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Tamara: I'm doing great. Thanks very much. I appreciate being on.Zach: Oh, yeah. No, no problem. Look, for those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Tamara: Of course. I'm just a Texas girl. Born and raised in Austin, Texas, which I feel like [?] is a unicorn--[both laugh]--with how Austin has grown, but yeah, I'm from Austin, Texas, and I currently work for Accenture. I am our Austin office managing director, so I'm responsible for our Austin office, and I'm also a key executive and managing director in our health and public service practice. So that means I spend quite a lot of work working with non-profits and higher education and with states. I went to the University of Texas at Austin, so I am a Longhorn - to all those proud Longhorns out there. And I think that's probably my quick summary on myself.Zach: Well, you know I gotta go ahead and give you some air horns for all of that, 'cause that's an amazing profile. [I drop 'em]Tamara: Ooh, I like the air horns. Can we have more?Zach: Oh, yeah.Tamara: [?]Zach: Oh, I got way more sound effects. I was trying to say--'cause this is what I'm trying to do. So as a side-note, Tamara--so, you know, Living Corporate has been around for a little over a year, and we add sound effects on the backend, but what I'm trying to do--we've got a soundboard now, so I'm over here trying to, you know, mix it up, add a little pizzazz. I was telling Rah that the last interview [that I was], you know, just trying a few different things out. So, you know, you may hear a few different things as they are appropriate in this conversation, okay?Tamara: Well, appropriate is always very important, so I appreciate that.Zach: Timing is everything.Tamara: And I will not be alarmed by your sounds, all right? Because I believe in disruptive innovation, so let's see what we can do.Zach: Oh, look at you. Look at you flexing. I see you now. Okay, all right. All right, now I'm activated. I appreciate that. [both laugh] So you've been with Accenture for over 20 years. Two sets of 10. Two.Tamara: Yeah. Are you trying to make me feel old? What exactly--[laughs] Yes, yes. Two sets of 10. Thank you, Zach. [both laugh]Zach: No. Well, the reason I bring it up--not to make you feel old. Can we talk a little bit about your journey and what it's looked like for you not just to survive but thrive in consulting, right? Because I've seen--in my experience in consulting and outside of consulting, black professionals--black and brown professionals, a lot of times they will get right up to either that manager or senior manager level and just kind of stay there for a while, and so it's rare--that I've seen, in my experience--many of us break into, like, the true executive-level leadership, and so--you know, it just seems like such a hyper-political space. I'd love just to hear about what your path has been.Tamara: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's very interesting. I mean, I think one of the very first reasons why I came to work for Accenture, which at the time was interested in consulting when I graduated, was because I saw people who looked like me. It's really that simple. I initially had a marketing background, so I wasn't even in the technology space at all, or the consulting space. I wasn't focused on that. And one of my friends signed me up, and I went to an interview, and as I was going through the interview process, I started to run into individuals and greeters that they had there, and a couple of people who were friends of mine, who had graduated a couple of years before, were like, "Come on, Tamara. Come try this out." So I did, and it's been interesting to me, because I think that that aspect is what's really helped my career. I think that consulting can be intimidating. There's a lot of work associated with it. You're always having to spend time to stay up on trends and skills and capabilities and technology, and you're always in learning mode at the same time as you're guiding your clients, but what I found most intriguing about it is the fact that it's not a product, it's about people, and it's a team-based activity, and I think, for me, that was important, because I like connection with people. And so I think what's really helped me navigate my career, to be honest with you, has been relationships, right? It's a diverse world, and I think you have a lot of opportunity to own your path and own your career, but you have to do that with having the right people with the right opportunities with your right skill set, and those three things have to match up, and early in my career I didn't really understand that. I thought if you just worked hard, surely you're gonna get patted on the back and get promoted. [laughs] So very quickly you realize that's not the case, and so I really had to learn a couple of key points that I'll share. One is advocacy. It is important, right? And understanding your contribution and what you bring to the table and being able to articulate that, not in a boastful way, but in a way that helps everybody understand the work that you're performing and how you're contributing. That's important, and that was [anti?] to my culture and my world, right? I was raised in a very--in a background that believed in servant leadership. You know, if you do a good job, that's good enough, right? And so it was really hard for me to advocate and really to tell my story and be able to represent my story. And the second thing that was important is you need relationships at all levels - those that work for you and above you, and understanding the ecosystem that you work in, the organization structure that you work in and understanding the key players in that are important, and you need to take the time to understand where you work, how you work, who you're working with. You need to understand how they contribute and leverage that network, and I know people utilize "network" very freely, but it's exceptionally important. Like, you have to have sponsors or a key sponsor, and that sponsor is only a sponsor if they are well-positioned in the company to be able to advocate on your behalf. So that goes back to that first statement of advocacy, and so I had to learn how to navigate that, and I had to learn how to navigate that with individuals who didn't look like me, right? Because when I first came into the company there were a lot of African-American females, and even now, right, that's something that we're committed to, and I'm really thankful to work for a company that's committed to inclusion and diversity, but overall in the technology space, the percentages of African-Americans or Hispanics or women, right, that's still a number that has to grow, right? And so the reality of that means I have to have mentors and sponsors who may not be my makeup, but they're still committed to my success, and I had to learn how to get past my own unconscious bias to reach out and to leverage them and leverage those relationships in telling my story to navigate my career to success. And that was hard for me on multiple levels, one because we all suffer from impostor syndrome at some time. We all doubt ourselves. I wasn't used to talking about myself in that way. Learning how to establish relationships differently, at different levels and in different ways, and so I really had to embrace that in order for me to see, you know, my career path grow.Zach: Wow. So look, you know, it's been a theme, right? I've been talking to y'all, and when I say y'all I'm talking about y'all Accenture MDs. And so I keep on dropping this Flex bomb, but I gotta do it again. [Flex bomb sfx] You know what I'm saying? 'Cause golly. You're dropping real stuff. But, you know, jokes aside, it all boils down to vulnerability, and that's hard, right?Tamara: So hard. [both laugh]Zach: It's hard to practice vulnerability with folks that look like you, let alone folks that don't look like you, especially if you've been burned a couple times by some of those folks who don't look like you. Then it's like, "Well, dang, okay. Not only are my feelings kind of hurt, I also need to figure out a way to preserve myself. So what does it look like for me to just exist here," you know what I mean? So I definitely understand, 100% agree, with every point you made, and I just--[coin sfx]--you know, I just want to--I really do appreciate you sharing those points, because it is true that a lot of times, like, we--I'll speak for myself, 'cause your point around servant leadership resonated with me. That's definitely, like, my background as well. It's, like, the whole just "Okay, look, lead with humility. Look out for those before you look out for yourself," and that framework, while I'm not saying it isn't--I still believe in it, but it creates challenges in spaces where everyone is so very much so looking out for themselves. So what does it look like to practice servant leadership, but at the same time tactfully, professionally, honestly advocate for yourself? Like, those are--that's a hard balance to find, you know what I mean?Tamara: It is, and I think what we think is sometimes they have to be mutually exclusive, and that's not the case, right? What I had to learn was--and I was actually coached on this. And this was hard, right? I was very used to always saying "we did this," and "we did this," and "we did that." What they really want to understand [is] "What did you do, Tamara, as part of this collective," you know, success or project that you're talking about. Because they understand that you didn't deliver the project by yourself. [both laugh] [?] leadership, right? What they're trying to understand is what piece of the pie did you have, and how did you influence that? What ingredients did you add into that pay to help that pie taste wonderful, right? And so I had to learn how to use the word "I," which was hard, and at the same time use the word "team." So I would have to say things like, you know, "I directed the team to do this, and this is how the team executed this." You know, "We set up this collaboration method or this design session," you know, and "I facilitated that, and the team came up with some really innovative ideas. I helped the team work through how to deliver that." You know, "I delivered these pieces of the effort, and I honed this client relationship, and I helped the client interact with these team members in this way." But it was really about making sure that we clarified how I personally contribute, and then at the same time also talk to the team objective. So you can do both, and I don't--and I think that's where people miss, right? It's not to negate what the team does, but that team is working for you. [coin sfx] They're helping you be high-performing. Absolutely give them credit for that, and you need to definitely talk about that, but you're a part of that team. You're directing that team. You're providing leadership to that team. Those aspects of what you're doing shouldn't be ignored, and you can share that and still share in that team's success, because your success is the team's success and vice versa. And so recognizing that fact I think was key in my ability to start understanding how to speak to how I contributed and how the team contributed and how we did it together.Zach: Amen. Come on, now. You know what? And something else can we talk about for a second is--'cause you talked about using the word "I" and, like, what it is you did. Can we talk a little bit about--in terms of looking to progress and thrive in these corporate spaces as a leader, as a person of color, as a--let me be more specific, because sidenote--and we're gonna get to this later in the questions--Tamara, does it ever annoy you when people use, like, the term "person of color," like, as a catch-all as opposed to being more explicit and saying, like, "black and brown?" And it's okay if--I'm just curious.Tamara: That doesn't bother me so much. I just think that what--what probably bothers me even more than that is I think that people should not be afraid to use terms, right? I am an African-American, and if you're concerned about what to ask, then ask me what my preferred term is and I'll share it, right? Because I think it's important to put out. It's just in the same way that when people say "I don't see color." I don't understand what that means, right? Because the reality is I am a person of color. I am an African-American, I am a woman, and I don't want to ignore these facts. They bring uniqueness to my personality, being a female, being an African-American, being a Texan, being a UT grad. They're all just aspects and characteristics that I bring to the table that I think is unique, and that's what brings that innovation to the conversation. So you don't need to ignore it, and a lot of times, if I'm presenting at an I&D conference or any type of meeting, I will say that just right off the bat, because sometimes you just need to take out the concern, the tension, the fear around these conversation points. I think it goes back to being authentic. You know, early in my career, it was hard for me to fully embrace some of these topics courageously, right? And I had to come to my own place of "This is who I am at 100%," and I had to represent me, and if I'm going to be an authentic leader--and I really think when I made that shift is when I actually started to see a lot more success a lot faster in my career, because I fully embraced who I was. And that doesn't mean everybody has to like it, but they need to respect it and understand what I bring to the table. And so I thin kit's really about the fact that you need to know who you are, fully accept who you are, bring that fully all-in from an authentic point of view, and you're gonna have success when you do that.Zach: I love it. So I paused and asked you a side question before I got to my real question. So my real question is can we talk a little bit about, as a leader, why it's important to make sure you're doing the right kind of work, and I share that because for me--I'm a newer manager. I've been a manager, like, maybe two years or so. I think this will be my second year just being a manager. I was coming from another firm. Now I'm at a new firm as a manager, and coming into this new firm, I've been--I've got the feedback that, like, "Look, Zach, as a manager--as a leader, your job is not to quote-unquote get things done. Your job is to actually lead the team." And so I know for me, I think just the way that I--maybe just my background, how I've been coached, I've felt like there's always been a pressure to prove myself and show that I'm actually doing something, as opposed to what does it look like to actually facilitate the team and drive results through the team that I'm leading. Can you talk a little bit about, like, your journey in pivoting from being, like, a person who just got a lot of tasks done very well to really influencing and driving results for a group of people?Tamara: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I've had-- I think I've had two major what I would call crossroad points where that occurred, right? So just like you, when you, you know, made that point, from consultant to manager, you're--you know, and those are terms we utilize in my Accenture consulting world. It's that difference of you're part of the team and you're doing the work to you need to direct what the work and strategic vision needs to be, and you need to own that and direct the team and manage that, and manage the deadlines, the deliverables, et cetera. And I think really what that is about is understanding that you can't do all things and you need to prioritize your time and be effective, and it's hard for you to provide proper oversight to the team and manage the quality deliverables they're generating if you don't do that. What really helped me is, you know, we have various trainings, right? And we talk about what it really means--what are the expectations of a manager versus a team member, right? And I think that a lot of times we get these promotions, we don't always spend the time to understand what are the requirements and the new expectations for that new role. And so the first thing I would tell people is you need to just be straight up with your boss. "Help me understand what you expect." [laughs] "What do you expect me to do?" And when you start to write that down, then you've got to th ink about how you're gonna deliver that, and if you start to deliver that and you're at 80 hours a week, then you know somewhere there's a problem.Zach: You're absolutely right.Tamara: It's that practical at times, right? The other thing I would say is you--I believe in this mentorship concept and having people above you who can see how you're working and what you're doing, because sometimes we don't see, and you need to constantly be getting the 360 feedback, right? I believe in the 30/30, right? 30 days and 30 minutes, right? And you need to ask your leadership, right, "Am I operating at the level you expect? Where do you see those changes? What do you want me to do less of and more of," right? And you need to be asking those questions on a regular basis so that you're learning through that, and then you need to observe those above you, what they're doing, how they're doing it, and how they're working, right? It's a natural inflection point that when you switch to leadership you've got to delegate more. You've got to trust your team, and you've got to be able to balance when you dig in and when you don't, and you need to have the time available to dig in on the real issues and ignore the rest, and you can't do that if you're not at that right level of ownership, oversight, and digging in, right? But if you're always in the weeds you can never see--you know, if you're always in the trees you can never see the forest, right? And so you have to work on that strategic view. The second inflection point, which was really a bigger one for me, was really when I switched to becoming a managing director, and what was interesting about that was not so much about the work, because as a senior manager at Accenture, you're already managing pretty large teams and pretty large efforts, and they did a good job in giving us trainings. We even have special inclusion and diversity trainings for African-Americans and Hispanics. You know, we're very committed to that, and so, you know, I felt like I had plenty of exposure and understanding and coaching and development and leadership training, right? What I hadn't always understood is that [soft?] skill change that has to happen as you move up that ladder, right? [laughs] By nature I'm very direct, and, you know, how you have conversations at one level versus how you have to the conversation when you are truly in charge, leading an entire portfolio or a set of work or a set of people's shifts, and sometimes you do need to be more sensitive about how you share and communicate information and how you interact with individuals, because there's an expectation there of leadership that comes with that. And so, you know, when I first kind of made that transition, I was still somewhat operating in my previous, you know, method of operation. And I had a sponsor come set up a meeting with me, and I didn't know what--I thought we were gonna talk about this one thing and he was like, "Hey, Tamara, I've noticed something," and what was good about that is we already had the relationship. We already had the relationship, so he already knew he could setup the meeting. And because we had the relationship and because he was one of my sponsors, he just really wants me to be successful, and he knew--and because we had that established relationship, he knew he could have a direct conversation and say, "Hey, I don't think you handled this meeting correctly. You're now X. This is how I would expect you to handle the meeting. You need to think about that." And it was really hard, it was really impacting, but it was right, and so it really helped me to make that soft skill adjustment that I didn't even realize needed to happen. And when you have the right people in your world, and the right relationship with them, they're gonna help you be successful in that way.Zach: No, I love it. And it goes right back to what you were saying at the top, right, about relationships and trust and vulnerability, right? Like, if there wasn't a focus--if there wasn't that time spent in the beginning building those and practicing vulnerability and building those relationships, then you may not have had that conversation.Tamara: That's exactly right, and I think that hurts a lot of people because vulnerability is important, and you have to be willing to be humble. You have to be willing to be [?], to receive constructive feedback, and you have to have the kind of relationships where you are allowed and able to do that exchange. You know, I think that what people would say about me is honesty and authenticity matters to me 100%, and I tell them from the get-go, like, "I want to know. I can take it. I want to hear. Help me to understand, help me to grow, help me to be better," because the reality is I don't know all the answers. I don't know how to execute always and always in all positions, and I don't [?]. I need to still--you should always be in learning mode, and you should always recognize there's someone to learn from and something to learn about.Zach: Absolutely. So I think this is actually a really good transition point to my next question. You know, in your Essence Magazine feature--[Cardi B "ow" sfx]--you share a bit about how you've made it a part of your role to champion diversity.Tamara: Oh, yeah.Zach: Okay. So now, Tamara, so--you know, you don't know me, I don't really know you like that, but I'ma tell you - I'm a pretty gregarious person, and in a part of that gregariousness comes an ability to build relationships and have a lot of real talk sessions with black and brown senior leaders, right? So I've spoken to quite a few of them, and they're nervous about championing diversity because they don't want to be pegged as the "black person whisperer," or pigeon-holed in a space that is like, you know, away from business. So what are your thoughts on that, and how do you combat that perception?Tamara: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a fair concern, and I think you always have to [?] for the company you're in. You know, for myself--let me just tell you straight up that I am passionate about inclusion and diversity period, and it doesn't matter what everybody thinks about it or how they--you know, if there's gonna be a negative or positive perception. I think that you have to do what is right for you and what is your moral code, and I believe that I have that responsibility, right? I was the, you know, first African-American female to be an OMD, right? The first female to be an OMD in the Austin office, right? I was one of the first black females to be promoted in Texas even, into a managing director role. I absolutely have a responsibility to represent and push I&D so that other people can see me, and if I'm not out there, you know, present for them to see, then they may not believe that that's an opportunity in this company, and I want them to know that it is, right? Because if I can get there, so can you. And so I just feel like--I feel very passionate about that. I'm not blind to that concern, right? And so I think the difference for me is I am in the business, right? I'm still managing a large portion of our business. I have a responsibility for a large, you know, P&L revenue responsibility, profitability responsibility, and I feel like I can do that job and still manage my career success and be committed to inclusion and diversity. Now, I will say that it's easier for me because I work at a company that is committed to I&D period, right? We were the first company to publish our numbers out there in the market in our space, and that was a pretty big deal. So we believe in it. We have accountability around it. You know, I have a CEO for North America who is female who has made a commitment to, you know, gender parity across our industry groups, right? I work in an industry group where we've already hit gender parity, in health and public service within the U.S., and that's a big deal. So this is not something they shy away from. It's a part of our responsibilities as managing directors, right? We have accountability for it, and so I feel that. So I feel like I am in a position to champion something that's important to me and at the same time deliver on the business, but I think you've got to do both. In the same token, right, I have an I&D role in my public service entity group, because I want people to know that this is important to me and I feel I need to represent that conversation. Equally however, I have just as many conversations about the business, my skill areas, around my clients, around technology trends. So people know me for an expert in so many different ways that I'm not just I&D. That's never going to be the conversation for Tamara, because Tamara has put herself out there around innovation and back office and front office and public service and--do you know what I mean? So my thing is you need to have more than just that dialogue. You need to have multiple dialogues absolutely, but you can do that. Incidentally though, there was a role that was offered to me that I chose to not take that was a +1 role in I&D, because I said, "You know what? We need to give back to someone else, 'cause I'm going to be doing I&D no matter what," right? I'm going [?]--I used to be the [?] sponsor of special, you know, trainings and learnings. I'm gonna show up at the conferences I think I need to show up. I will do that. I will make the extra time in my schedule to do that 'cause I'm passionate about it. Let's make sure other people are going down that path. I wasn't interested in being an I&D practitioner, 'cause that's not that I believe my role was. I wanted to be a managing director in the business, and I did that. [laughs] And so now that I've done that, I see it as an opportunity to be a strong influencer about where we move in that space, how we move in that space, how we're successful in that space, and I can influence that on my teams and in every way and be courageous enough to have those conversations. And I believe we have to be courageous about what's important, because the reality is we don't have enough brown and black people, so to speak, in this space, in technology. I want to change that, right? And so, you know, that's a decision I made. I think you have to make personal decisions. But what I would challenge people is, you know, "Why would you want someone else's path to be harder or more difficult than your own path? You should want it to be better and easier."Zach: Right. No, you're absolutely right, and, you know, I love your point around the fact that having multiple specialties--you know, not that you're gonna be a jack of all trades and a master of nothing, but if you have a handful of things that you're very, very skilled at--because let's say if you are passionate about I&D, and then you also have these other specialties, well, then you can then weave I&D into your domain, because I&D is ultimately focused on making sure that everyone feels involved, included, and empowered, and whatever you're talking about, especially in the tech space, is gonna involve people. So it's--I&D really isn't, like, sequestered over to something on the side. If you have a specialty, some type of depth of knowledge in something else, it's easy to then infuse that with I&D.Tamara: That's correct. I think that's right, and I think that you can have a huge impact on this space by just getting to a place of leadership, right? You can have a huge impact on the conversations that are being had and making sure that, you know, the right decisions are being made and the right opportunities are being offered for all people. At the end of the day, what we believe in is inclusion, right? We have this "Inclusion Starts With I" video that I absolutely love, 'cause it's not just about gender and ethnicity. It's about so many different aspects. It's about everyone having a voice at the table, and I think that's what's most important.Zach: Absolutely, and that's, again, a really good segue. So last year you were featured on The Daily Texan, where you gave your perspective on gender equality. Now, taking a step back, what I often see is when we look at--we really do look at gender in, like, binary terms, right? We don't really consider race as an intersect between gender, and we don't often include trans identities in these discussions. What is your perspective on how organizations can make conversations and examinations around gender more intersectional and inclusive?Tamara: Oh, absolutely. So I'm a huge fan of employee resource groups. [laughs] So we have a--so it's interesting that you say that, right? So again, it's about your personal choice to get involved, but I'm the co-lead for our United States Women employee resource group for all of the United States, and it's an awesome opportunity, right? 'Cause it really gives me a landscape to do so many different, interesting things, and I have a full team underneath me as the executive sponsor. And it's so interesting that you bring this up, because this year we talked about "What are the topics out there that we want to have," right? And one of them was around this concept of intersectionality with various groups and topics that don't come up, and interestingly, like, we just scheduled a Women of Color Voices of Leadership call in July, right? And I'm gonna sit down with our North American inclusion and diversity lead, and we're gonna talk about some of the metrics that we see women of color in corporate America and what does that mean. What does that mean, and how do we address some of the gaps that we see in corporate America? What are the key concerns that are impacting them that might be different from other groups? And what can we do about it? How do we help everybody be successful? And so I think it's really about leveraging your employee resource groups to bring the conversation to the table, whether you're doing that through a national kind of Voices of Leadership call or whether you're doing that individually in your cities, 'cause we're fortunate in that we also have employee resource groups at every city location. And so we have them dial into the sessions. Sometimes they host their own sessions. We do leadership panels around these topics, and we've done them around all of these dimensions that you're talking about. And, you know, we have LGBTQ employee resource groups. We have men's. We have military. And people are really active in them, and they're very important. We do cross-pollination across our employee resource groups, with our African-American one and our Women one, because we think that's important, to have this dialogue and talk about what it means. You know, there was some really interesting national-scale stories going on last year that were impacting people, and we will do calls on them. And they're voluntary. People don't have to join in. And we can talk about "How are people feeling about that? What did it mean to come to work when that news story broke last night? How are you feeling?" Right? We think it's important to have courageous conversations and put that dialogue out there, and we do that through the employee resource groups so that 1. you recognize there's legal and HR concerns and you want to do that appropriately--excuse me--but it's the right forum, because that's where the people are and that's where the conversation should occur.Zach: No, 100%. And to your point around--I believe you're talking about some stories--you're alluding to death by police of black people and other, like, stories around--just tragedy and loss regarding black and brown folk in the media?Tamara: Yeah. Like Black Lives Matter or things around immigration, right? These are things that impact certain cultures in a very strong way and impact, you know, how they feel about--because we can act like we can completely ignore that, but we bring our whole selves to work, right? And we don't know what people are dealing with in relation to that, no different than when we talk about those who are having to provide elderly care, right? Or they're the main provider for their children, or, you know, they're dealing with sickness or illness, right? All of these matter--all of these things matter, and so we think it's important that those conversations be out there to deal with, because that helps people cope, and that's important.Zach: It is. It's really important, and I think one thing I'm really curious about--I'm certain that some organization is going to do some research and make it, like, a formal report, but there's a certain level of just emotional labor that goes into being a non--a member of the non-majority, right, in the workplace. Like, there's--you know, we've [seen], you know, on The Root and other articles in the past. We've called it, like, "Calling In Black," and we've kind it made it, like, a joke, but also there's a lot of realness behind that in that just existing in some of these spaces, existing as you are, seeing some of the things on the news, interacting in these spaces where you're one of few can be exhausting. And so I 100% agree that ERGs are a really strong help, and then also having leadership that looks like you is a help, but I'm also really just--I'm personally curious, like, just from a health perspective, what the mental toll is for black and brown folks in the workplace, because it's a--when you see some of these things in the media, folks that look like you or that remind you of a family member or remind you of yourself, that has to have some type of impact on you, you know what I mean?Tamara: Yeah. I mean, I think that all of us have these additional +1 emotional labor situations, emotional things, but I think that for myself, right--I feel like this has been our world before I even came into corporate America. So I feel like, right or wrong, people can think what they think about it. I believe this additional layer that you're speaking to, this additional burden, however you want to call it--that extra understanding that comes when you are the non-majority in a world. And I especially feel that in Austin, because--you know, African-Americans in Austin right now is, like, 6%, right? [laughs] So it's a very small percentage, and so, you know, I always went to, you know, schools that did not look like me, and I was the only one. And so, you know, and then the conflicts of that versus my weekend world with my family and my church that might be all-majority African-American, for example. I think that we always have that emotional toll, and, you know, just like anything, I leverage my family and my friends to manage against that, right? And what I have to be careful with is to make sure I'm reading situations correctly and not putting something in there that isn't, and then sometimes it really is what I think it is and how to best navigate that with either courageous conversations or raising it up through the chain, right? And we have to do that, and we can't be afraid to do that.Zach: 100%. No, 100%. Okay, so I've got a couple more questions for you. This has actually gone really well. I appreciate you. This is one of our longer conversations in this series, and this has been great. A large part of your role involves talent recruitment. Can you share your predictions about what organizations will need to do to attract talent in the next 10 to 15 years?Tamara: Oh, my goodness. Absolutely. I mean, I think--for one thing, if they haven't already, they should be spending time--there's a lot of new companies out there that consult around the new generations and what's important to them, so the millennial generation, Generation Z, Generation Y, and what's important to them and how they operate and how they make decisions around company culture, and we've already done a lot of adjustments, and we're still doing that. I mean, we're pretty fortunate in that we're a consulting firm, so it's our nature to disrupt and understand trends for the future, right? We do that with [?] trends and our technology vision, but what we have found--and we've already gotten--I've gotten a lot of training around this already, but some of the ideologies, for example, for the millennial generation is very different than a baby boomer generation or even a Generation X, and so people need to spend time in understanding that. So for example, millennials are very civic-oriented, right? The percentage that they give, whether in time or money, is a lot higher, right? Sometimes they're more concerned with short-term versus long-term benefits. So example, in the past, right, if you were talking to a baby boomer generation, you would have spent a lot of time talking about pensions or talking about retirement and profit sharing or matching and all those things. Those same type of conversations don't immediately appeal to millennials. They really want to understand how they're gonna be valued, how they're going to move through the organization. They also want to know how the organization is giving back. They want to understand the corporate culture of the organization. And that's new, right? In the past, you didn't really spend so much time talking about corporate culture, culture fit or culture add, right, but these are terminologies that are gonna be utilized today, and so, you know, that organization has to spend time figuring out what is their culture, and what is the key messaging that they're presenting in that, so that people can make an interpretation of whether or not that's a good fit for them. You know, they're gonna want to see that that company is moving and changing with the world, you know? I think--when we presented as part of--a couple of years back, our technology vision that every company was a digital company, people were like, "What? What are you talking about?" Right? But the reality of today, I think everybody understands every company--it doesn't matter who you are or what you're doing, from oil and gas to higher education, you're digital, right? Because people interact today from a digital point of view in every regard, from payroll to, you know, those who are in the service industry to those who are not, right? And so you have to have a presence socially. You have to have a presence from a web perspective. You have to have an internal presence for how you communicate, chat, with individuals. So every aspect matters, so companies have to understand that. They're gonna have to take a strong perspective on their work schedule and their flex schedules, you know? We have fully embraced truly human at Accenture, and I think that that's important, right? It's important for us to have flex schedules. It's important for us to have paternity leave. It's important that we have, you know, extended [?] maternity leave considerations. These things matter to the millennial generation, and they ask. They want to know, as a company, what are we sponsoring at a national level from a corporate perspective? What are we doing on the local level from a corporate perspective? They want to understand how you're going to train them and keep them up to date on skills, and so what are you offering around that? So I think, like, companies today have to be exceptionally dynamic. They're gonna have to spend time leveraging profiles, and again, what's gonna be a good profile that would fit and learn and do well in their environment. You're already seeing that with artificial intelligence. You're already seeing people trying to leverage AI as a way to do screenings initially on what is the right candidate pool for a company. So they have to adapt digitally, right? Because it's already starting, and that's going to be the path longer-term, right? So just--and having a really strong, you know, recruitment cycle from where they're pulling in and how it goes through that automated process. The time frames by which people get through the cycle has to be faster, because people aren't gonna wait, and the market is really demanding right now. What are they gonna concentrate on from a higher institution? What's the type of profile? So, you know, I think today companies really have to be on it. It's really competitive, and it's really hard, but my recommendation is they need to spend some time at first just studying who it is they're hiring. The largest work generation today is the millennial generation already, right? And so they need to understand that profile.Zach: All right, now, companies. Y'all hearing Tamara talking to y'all, okay? And we gave this to y'all for free. Y'all gonna be over there trying to get everything--y'all gonna be out here thinking y'all's company is all set up, you know, that y'all got everything going on, y'all got the latest and greatest, you know, DOS computer, and us millennials, we're looking at you like [haha sfx]. You know, you need to pay attention. That's all I'm trying to say. Tamara, this has been great. This has been great. My heartfelt thanks goes to you for just being here.Tamara: Oh, thank you. Thank you for allowing me to have my voice out there on stuff that I'm really passionate about. I really appreciate that.Zach: Oh, no, no. This is dope, and I know the people, they're gonna love this. Before we go--and you've been dropping jewels this entire conversation, but I want to just give you one more spot to wax poetic if you need to. Any parting words or shout-outs?Tamara: Yeah. You know, what I would tell y'all out there is to be you and fully accept who you are, and spend some time knowing who you are. You know, early in my career I spent so much time on my insecurities, and I allowed that to direct my actions, my communication, my lack of communication with people. If people didn't invite me to lunch, I just sat there being depressed versus being like, "Hey, do you want to go to lunch with me?" Right? And a lot of that centered around impostor syndrome and being uncomfortable in a space because it didn't look like me and with people who didn't look like me. When I really embraced who I was and that I was proud of who I am and what I represent and really understood what I brought to the table, then I recognized I can control that dialogue. I can control the stories that are out there about me, and I want to own those stories, and that, you know, fully embrace you. Be your authentic self and be all of you, from your hair to your clothes into the environment into the story, into the conversation, and do that unapologetically, at the same time with a spirit of humility and respect.Zach: [straight up sfx] Tamara, this has been incredible. We consider you a friend of the show. Again, we thank you for your time, and we hope to have you back.Tamara: I would love to come back, absolutely.Zach: All right, we'll talk soon.Tamara: Thank you.Zach: Peace.

On the fourth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, talks about the importance of salary negotiation - get your coins, sis/sir! She dispels a couple salary negotiation myths and offers up a few tips of her own to help you get what you ask for, not what you deserve.Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you're in the right place. I am here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking about salary negotiation. Get what you ask for, not what you deserve. Also, get your coins, sis or sir. I know we have some male listeners, but this is a special episode because this past week we celebrated a holiday--well, I don't know if it's, like, a celebration or if it's more so of a recognition type deal, but this past week there was Black Women Equal Pay Day. Very, very important day, just to really bring awareness to this gender diversity pay gap. Listeners, this is not a drill. Black women make 65 cents on a dollar what a white man earns in a year, and white women bring home 81 cents. This epidemic is so real that this Black Women Equal Pay Day was launched really so that everyone could recognize some of the challenges that black women are facing as it relates to getting our coins. To break it down even further, it would have taken us working the whole entire year of 2018 and then some--like, up to this past week in August of 2019--to make the same amount as a white man in 2018. So I want to say that again - we can let it marinate a little bit. So essentially, for black women, we would have had to work all of 2018, plus up to this week of August 2019, to make the same amount that a white man made solely in 2018. Ladies, we are overworked, we're underpaid, and we're tired. We deserve more. That's why this Black Women Equal Pay Day is so important and also why I wanted to talk about salary negotiation, so we can really get our coins. Let's normalize salary negotiation. That's something that I think is really a normal part of the application or the hiring process that, especially for women, is seen--it can be seen as intimidating. So studies show that women actually negotiate less than men. The majority of women accept their salary on the first offer, while studies show that men are less likely to accept on the first offer. If you've been listening each week, you know my background. I've spent some years in recruiting, and I always noticed how men were so much more confident when negotiating their salary offer when the women that negotiated seemed very, very nervous. And the other thing that I noticed as well is that it was always men that would ask for more money. Even when they weren't, you know, fully-qualified to deserve, they would just ask just to ask, whereas women, I mean, we have degrees on top of degrees, we have all the experience, we have all of the qualifications, you know, yet we are less likely to negotiate. I even made this mistake very early on in my career. So I was--I'm not gonna name any companies [laughs], but I actually was really ready to leave this company, like, desperately ready to leave, and I interviewed, and I got through the final phase, knocked it out the park, it went really, really well, and about a week after that interview the recruiter called me. Completely, completely off-guard. I was at a conference. I was changing real quick to go to a session, not even really thinking about, "Oh, okay, what if the recruiter calls me?" And she just randomly called me, and she said, "Hey, we want to give you this offer, and this is what we're paying. So yay, we're so excited. Welcome to the team. What do you say?" Man, when I tell y'all I was just so damn happy--like, so happy to be getting out of my job, and I felt really pressured because she was just like, "Yeah, sis." Like, "What's good?" Like, she was like, "Here it is. What are you gonna do about it?" So I was like, "Okay, yes. I accept. I am so excited. Thank you." Whoo, when I tell y'all I realized that my colleague who actually kind of referred to me was making more than me, whoo... I learned my lesson. And of course now I coach a lot of professionals on how to negotiate for what they--for what they deserve, for what they desire, and just never do that. Please don't do that. Don't make the same mistake that I did, and just know that recruiters will call you at any time of the day and they will give you that job offer, and they will try to pressure you into "Hey, what do you say?" You know, "We're excited." No matter how desperate you feel, no matter how excited, even excited, you are about the actual offer, don't ever accept on the spot. You always want to say, "Hey, I really appreciate this offer. Thank you so much. I would actually like to see the full compensation package so I can look at everything that's being offered," and even if you want to throw, you know, this little tidbit in, for those who do have families and it is likely important to say, "Hey, I would like to see the full compensation package, and I would like to actually go over this or talk through this with my family," you know? Or "with my husband" or "with my wife," you know? But don't ever accept on the spot, and always, always, always ask 1. to see it in writing, and then 2. to see the full compensation package. So I have some salary negotiation myths that I wanted to share with you all. 1. You should ask for less to get in the door and work your way up. I hope that you out there listening are like, "Ooh, no." [laughs] That is the right answer. You should never ask for less to get in the door and work your way up, and here's the reason why. When you are accepting an offer that is lower than what it is you know you deserve based on your qualifications and your experience, that's actually hindering or holding you back from getting more money later down the road. That's literally limiting your future earning potential, because as you all know, when you get with a company, your promotions, your raises, all of that is based on your current pay. So if you already go in at a lower salary, and you didn't ask for more money, you just accept what they give you on the spot. Yeah, they may be giving you raises or bumps, you know, year over year, but that little 3% raise that you're getting each year could be a lot more if you had asked for that 10%, that 20%, that 5% increase to what they originally offered you. So you never want to accept less just to get in the door. The second myth? "Companies will be offended if you ask." This is not true. Like I said earlier, negotiating your salary or just, you know, negotiating for a better package, it's really a part--it should be a part of the conversation. It's just another step in the process. And most recruiters and companies are actually prepared to have that conversation with you, so they may be expecting you to ask for more money. That's why they're kind of going in at a lower offer, so that you can negotiate your way up to what it is that you should get. Companies literally save millions of dollars each year because we are not asking for more money. Next myth? "Compensation and salary are one in the same." Hey, these are different. These are different. So salary is one part of this negotiation. I know we talk about salary negotiation, but it probably would be better to think of it in terms of compensation negotiation or full package or full benefits package compensation negotiation. There is so much that you can negotiate outside of salary. You can negotiate for a signing bonus. You can negotiate for a performance bonus. You can negotiate for relocation, you know, better benefits--insurance benefits, dental, vision, all of that. More PTO, professional development. If you want remote--the option to work remotely or a flexible work schedule--let's say you have children, you know? And that standard 9-to-5 won't really work for you because you have to pick your kids up when they get out of school around 3. These are things that you can ask for. Lay it all out on the table and really think about the type of lifestyle that you want to live and how this new position can help to actually benefit you and to allow you to live that lifestyle that you want. So another myth--well, I'm just gonna throw out a fact. It doesn't matter what you made before. Now, depending on where you live, you will want to look into this law where in some states it is actually illegal for a recruiter to ask you what you've made in your last role. I live in North Carolina unfortunately. [laughs] It is very much so legal here, but depending on where you live, this is totally something worth looking into. I want to break this down a little bit more. So let's imagine that you are going to the dealership to buy a new car, and you want to trade in your car. You want to trade in your car. When you are trading in your car, they're not thinking about what you paid for this car when you first bought it. They're looking at the fair market value, meaning what that car is currently worth. I know we have some finance, accounting, consulting listeners out here, so we all know about depreciating value, right, of assets. So, you know, typically the value of the car goes down, right, as soon as you take it off the lot, but keep this in mind - they're looking at the market value of that car, not what you paid for it. The difference here is that as you, you know, matriculate throughout your career, your value is going to increase. So what your pay should be based on is your current market value of your experience, of your education, of your certifications, of your skills, of your leadership. Just, like, the bomb, dope person that you are now, that's what they're paying for. So that's why it doesn't matter what you made in your most previous role. So I want you to think about that. Also, you will want to do some research. Definitely do research on what salaries are being offered for the type of jobs that you are going for. My favorite resource is Glassdoor. LinkedIn, if you have a LinkedIn Premium account--which I highly recommend--you can also see some salary details. There is also PayScale. There's Salary.com. So check those out. They may not be extremely accurate, like, right on the dot, but at least it gives you some type of basis so you can kind of gauge what the pay would be. You also would want to look by location as well, because of course, you know, my cost of living here in North Carolina is much, much, much lower than the Bay, you know? Or much lower than New York. So that's important to keep in mind, but before you really start this interviewing process, you will want to know what type of salaries are being offered for your experience, for that job title, in your location, because not only will recruiters ask you what you're looking for, they may even ask you this in the very first conversation. This happens much more than it actually used to, so be prepared to have that salary discussion even on the first call. All right? So my advice for that, if you are asked, is to not give a range, you know? Some sources say that you should give a range. I've never really understood that, because of course if you give a range, they may come back and just offer you a salary at the lower range that you give. My thought is to have three numbers in mind, all right? That top number will be your dream salary. Like, you would be ballin' out of control if you could get this salary. That is a salary that you would love to get. That second number is--this is what you actually would want. [laughs] Maybe a little more realistic, but, like, that's the salary that you want, and then that third number is your settle number. Like, "If I had to." Maybe you just love the job, you love the environment. Maybe it's in an industry where the pay's a little bit lower but the culture is great, there's a lot of room for, you know, potential, and you know that they're just not bringing in as much money, like working for a non-profit versus working for a for-profit, you know? So just think about that settling number. So those are the three numbers that you have in mind, that way if they throw out a number you won't get thrown off by them 'cause you will already have those numbers in mind of what you want. And you won't want to ask for that number that you truly want. You'll want to ask for something that is much, much, much higher so that you can kind of negotiate down if need be. But, like, let's say you want 75,000, right? Like, you don 't want to tell the recruiter, "Oh, I'm really looking for $75,000," because they may come back and say, "Well, here's 65," right? So actually ask for 85, you know? Ask for 90. Then they can--you know, maybe they'll throw out "Okay, we can't do that. We can do 70," and you can kind of work up to that 75 figure. When you're asking for the salary--well, the other thing I'll say is try to ask--try to get a number from them first. I actually had a client who used this method, and she said that she asked the recruiter--and this is a question that you ask. You ask the recruiter, "What would you typically offer for someone with my experience and my skill set for this particular role?" And see what they say. Just ask, you know? Sometimes they may not want to tell you, or they may kind of seem like, "Um, can't really say. You've just gotta give us a number first," and at that moment you'll just have to kind of give them a number. But, you know, just throw the question out there. My client did this, and she said that her mouth dropped to the floor because what she actually was going to ask for was significantly lower than the number that recruiter gave her. So put the ask out there. If not, you have your numbers in mind. You want to make sure that you're confident. You want to make sure that you're confident, and you want to back up this by facts, factual actuals [laughs] of your experience, of your skills, of what it is you bring to the table and how you can add value, not your personal circumstances. Like, "Oh, I've just got so many bills to pay, and I've got these kids to feed, and I gotta take care of my family, you know? My parents are sick and I'm helping." Like, no. No, no, no. No personal circumstances. Trust me. You have the experience, you have the qualifications to back it up. So you get what you ask for, not what you deserve. I just want to make sure that you guys--if you don't take anything else away from this, just know that ask--just put the ask out there or you may live with regret. Trust me, I've been there. My clients have been there. Ask for the amount. You deserve it. So that's all I have for today. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have any questions, thoughts or comments, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter @Latesha_Byrd, L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd. Thanks for listening to The Link Up with Latesha with Living Corporate. I am your host Latesha Byrd, and until next time--and also repeat after me - you get what you ask for, not what you deserve. Bye.

On the twenty-eighth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield speaks about having an effective networking follow-up strategy and introduces us to the four-step approach he personally uses. Implementing these tips will surely help foster more valuable connections from your networking experiences!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, we're gonna talk about having a networking follow-up strategy. We've all gone to really cool networking events, connected with a few people, and ended up exchanging business cards, then we go home and toss them in the ever-growing pile of rectangular paper and move on with our lives. If this how you approach networking, you probably haven't made too many fruitful connections. If we want to build a solid network to lean on when we need them, then it's gonna take a bit more than crossing our fingers and hoping they reach out to us. We have to be proactive and take the first steps to connect outside of the event we met them at. Now, there are many ways to follow-up after an event, but I utilize a four-step follow-up strategy that I'd like to introduce you to that has proven to be quite effective for me. First, send them an email within 24 hours of the event. Remind them of who you are, where you met, and something you all spoke about. Tie it all together by asking them to grab a coffee or lunch, and even sweeten the deal by making it your treat. Number two, connect with them on LinkedIn directly after sending your email. This helps them remember who you are by attaching a face to the name. Number three, find a way to be a service to them. This can happen in the email if you've identified some ways while you connected at the event, or it can happen after you've met up. Remember, networking isn't just about what they can do for you, so no matter which route you go, be sure to lead by giving and initially expecting nothing in return. The fourth, and quite possibly the most essential, of the steps is to maintain the relationship by setting reminders on your calendar to catch up. This might sound silly, but otherwise you might not do it, and that network connection becomes what we call a "cold connection," meaning if you reached out to ask for something, it would seem like it's coming out of left field and that you're simply trying to use that person. Implementing this proven follow-up strategy will surely help foster more valuable connections from your networking experiences. Remember, it's necessary to not only build a network, but keep it warm by continually engaging with the people you've connected with. This trip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

On today's show, Zach sits down with Jorge Corral, Accenture's Office Managing Director for Dallas/North Texas. He speaks about his experiences as a first-generation professional and what fuels his passion for Latinx representation in the STEM fields, and he also shares three points of advice for Latinx professionals.Connect with Jorge on LinkedIn and Twitter!Search open positions at Accenture.com.Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and look, if you didn't hear the last time or the last time before the last time, I gotta share something with y'all, okay? Living Corporate has partnered with Accenture to feature some of their most experienced black and brown North American managing directors to share their journeys. My hope is that you check these out and you peep the links in the show notes to learn more about each of them, including our next guest, Jorge Corral. Jorge Corral is the Accenture office managing director for the Dallas/North Texas region. He is the global lead for Accenture's sourcing and procurement business for the products industry and also leads Accenture's Southwest retail practice. Hold on. So look, he got both of these places, right? He got both of 'em, okay? Jorge serves as a senior business advisor to many senior global Fortune 500 executives and has helped a wide variety of large retail and consumer goods companies to drive top-line growth and to improve their profitability through transformational change. He has spoken as an expert at various retail, shared services, inclusion and diversity, and procurement conferences. He is a board member of the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas and the Dallas Regional Chamber. Jorge was recently profiled in the D CEO Magazine list of the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Listen, the most powerful business leaders. Not the most powerful Latinx business leaders, not the most powerful leaders of color. One of the most powerful business leaders period, okay? Check that out. Sound Man, go ahead and give me them air horns for that right there. [air horns sfx] You know what I'm saying? And no disrespect to the--you know, making sure that you have the specifications around identity, but what I'm saying is he's just cold, right? He's just--he's that guy, okay? [laughs] In 2018, Jorge was recognized as one of the top minority business leaders by Dallas Business Journal and was also a finalist for D Magazine's 2018 Latino Executive of the Year. With that being said, the next thing you'll be hearing is the interview I had with Jorge Corral.[pause]Zach: And like I said right before the break, we have Jorge Corral with us. Jorge, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.Jorge: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Zach. It's a pleasure.Zach: Man, it's a pleasure all mine, trust that. So, you know, I just want to go ahead and just give a little bit of cheers--[children applause sfx]--for the fact that you're here. We appreciate that. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Jorge: Yeah. My name is Jorge Corral. I'm the Dallas office managing director at Accenture, which means I lead an office of more than 2,000 people in the Dallas-Fort Worth region, and my job is to really bring the services of Accenture and everything Accenture has to offer to solve business problems for our Dallas clients. And it's also about connecting Accenture more broadly to the DFW community. I also work in Accenture's management consulting practice, helping companies transform their businesses in different ways. I studied engineering and have two graduate degrees in mechanical engineering, and I also have a master's in business administration. And on a personal level, I have four kids and a wonderful wife. I was raised in a large Hispanic family in California, in Southern California to be specific. I was raised with five awesome siblings in a very large extended family, and frankly I think that's what set me up for success in the world I live in now, in consulting, because at the end of the day consulting is all about relationships, and I certainly learned plenty about relationships and relationship skills growing up in a big extended family.Zach: That's incredible. So, you know, you're talking about the fact that you came from relationships, and then that--and like you said, that translates into the relationships you now manage, not only internally within your Dallas office, but also externally in your community building and relationship building, which we're gonna talk about today. But, you know, you had a bunch of flexes within your bio. You talked about your professional background. You talked about your educational background. You talked about your family. You know, I can't really say congratulations on every single thing 'cause, you know, we only have, like, 30, 45 minutes, but I can drop some air horns. So let me just go ahead and--[air horns sfx]Jorge: [laughs] You are too nice. Thanks.Zach: No, no, it's not a problem at all. Now, in an interview with The Business Journals last year, you talked about better integrating the Accenture Dallas office with the Dallas community, and you expounded on some corporate partnerships that you helped build and amplify. Can you share more about the role of influence and relationships that they play in an executive position, particularly as a member of the Latinx community?Jorge: Yeah, I mean, I--I'll share to begin with that I like to live by one of the principles I learned from many people along the way, including my parents, and that's I really believe we're all responsible for making the world a better place, today and for the future. So for me, I personally didn't get to where I am by accident. I got a lot of help, directly and indirectly, along the way, and I recognize that many people broke a path so that I could have my opportunities. So I'm happy to find a way to give back, and in my Accenture role, you know, I'm really lucky and truly fortunate to be able to give back in different ways. So an example, over the last couple of years I've been able to join the board of the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas, and two years ago, we, Accenture, were able to commit to being the presenting sponsor of their Social Innovation Accelerator program. That really helps accelerate and mentor new non-profits that are providing support for our communities in different ways and solving problems that are around education, income, and health for our DFW community. So I've also been able to speak to Latinos on various platforms is another thing that I've had the opportunity to do, and that's both internally and externally. So internally as part of the Hispanic-American employee resource group leadership and externally at places like the University of Texas-Arlington's Center for Mexican-American Studies, where I've gotten just a lot of reward from being able to mentor Hispanic youth with a lot of promise. And I also have had the chance in the local community to serve on different panels, and one of the panels that I'm able to serve on from time to time is, you know, where we bring in 200+ middle school and high schoolers, and I just share some of my life stories and my life experiences up on the stage. And it's less about the story I tell you and more about sometimes when you're young, just looking up on the stage and seeing somebody that looks like you, sounds like you, that alone makes things possible. So I'm happy to give back in whatever way I can.Zach: Jorge, that's all facts. You're absolutely right, you know? It's interesting, because for me, you know, I thought about getting into consulting, and I--for me, I didn't even know it was something possible until I was in college and I just happened to see a black man who told me he worked at Accenture. And I was like, "What is--" You know, "What is that?" Right? And it went from something, you know, abstract and kind of esoteric to something actually very practical and possible, right? So 100% agree there. And speaking a little bit more about sharing your story, right? You came from humble beginnings as a son of Mexican immigrants. So not only you are a first-generation corporate professional, you're also a first-generation American as well. So what do you think are some experiences that are exclusive to first-generation Americans of color, and what advice do you have for those who are also the first in their family to really enter corporate America?Jorge: Well, I'll say that's a big, big question. I'll share my--I'll share my life story and a little bit about myself in hopes that, you know, some of that would--people could relate to it and maybe get something out of it. So I would just say that I feel really lucky and privileged in my background, because I'm part of a connected, large, loud, proud, loving, bilingual, bi-cultural family, and for me that is--I can't imagine a different life for myself. And for me I was very lucky 'cause I had very good role models. Like a lot of immigrants, my parents had an ambitious vision and were willing to put in a lot of hard work and invest the bulk of their lives so that their kids could have big, big opportunities. My parents were big, big into education as the way to advance us, and they sacrificed a lot for me. And, you know, in a lot of ways they didn't just talk about it, they lived it. So I'll tell you a quick side story. My mom went back to college at age 40 when I was 12 years old with six kids at home and a part-time job. So, you know, you can't imagine a better role model, right? And I also had smart, ambitious siblings who helped me too. So, you know, I've been really lucky in a lot of ways with my family life, and I'm also really grateful 'cause I've got a lot of help from different mentors along the ways in different ways and different ones over time. People helped me as I went through my education. People helped me as I entered the workplace and continue to help me, and I've been lucky to navigate the workplace because a lot of times--a lot of times you just don't know, and if you're first-generation and you're learning as you go, a lot of times you just need a little help with navigating. And, you know, we talked about before with sometimes just seeing somebody out there that's done it before that looks like you is helpful, but it's also--and it's also helpful for people to just give you a little bit of coaching along the way and tell you--maybe it's just a little nugget of information, maybe it's just a little bit of support, but all of those things kind of add up to a lot. So I would just say--when you ask me some of the different things, I'll just share a couple. First, I do think you need to be willing to work hard and also be willing to adapt to new things when you're going through experiences new. So if you're first-generation, things are new, and you just have to adapt and be flexible, and it's hard to be at first, so you just need to try to do your best to be the best you can, and then learn fast in terms of school, work, whatever. And then, as I mentioned, just get help along the way and really ask for help. And then second, I think you have to be tenacious, and maybe sometimes even a bit stubborn, and not let things get in the way, 'cause there's times when maybe you get frustrated or discouraged, but one thing I learned from my parents was not to give up, and I think it's a strength of our culture and just the immigrant culture in general.Zach: Man, I love that, and I--you know, it's interesting, because, you know, you're talking about immigrant culture, and you keep alluding to your family--and I love that, Jorge. That's so dope. You know, Living Corporate really is a space for black and brown professionals in the workplace, but transparently--I'm just keeping it a buck with you, right? Like, we have had some challenges in engaging minorities that are not a member explicitly of the African diaspora, right? So, like, what advice would you have for how black and Latinx professionals can be better allies and supporters for one another in the workplace? I mean, is there any--one, of course, any insights you have directed to that, but then have you had any experiences within your ERG on how you work with other ERGs at Accenture and how y'all practice community or allyship there?Jorge: Yeah. I mean, I think I would just begin by saying a lot of people of color--people of color share some experiences. Not all experiences, but a lot of experiences. I think we all would agree that we need a diverse world where everyone participates and feels included, but I think we all know that that's not always the world we live in. And it's hard to feel successful when you feel excluded. So I do think that while different groups are different in their own way, many of the experiences are similar, and there's a lot to learn from each other, and we all need to help each other. I would say in my life I've learned, and maybe had to learn, that everyone is different in their own way, but when you're a kid--you know, when I think back on it, on my childhood, when you're a kid you just want to fit in and not be different, and that follows you in different ways throughout your life, but I would also say that over time you grow and you learn, and I've learned that what makes you different is really what makes you special. But even today, I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm being real with you, at times I find myself in situations where I look and sometimes feel different from everyone else, and when I do I remind myself that everyone, regardless of who you are, where you come from or what you look like, sometimes feels isolated, excluded, removed, alone, and it's simply a shared human experience. But it feels very--very personal. So in those moments I need to get past it, and so we all need constant reminders and maybe some help to remember, particularly if you're a person of color. So, you know, at Accenture I'm fortunate to work at a place, at a company, that's a leader in the market around inclusion and diversity, and we spend a lot of time collaborating across the African-American and the Hispanic-American ERGs so that everyone can learn from each other. We have summits together, and I like to think we share pretty well and help each other.Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] Just a light Flex bomb. Nothing too crazy. I love that. You're absolutely right, right? Like, when you--and the reason why I ask is because I think it's easy for us, in our differences, to sometimes, like, huddle up, and then in those huddles we then create, like, factions, and we kind of miss the point, right? Like, ultimately, all of us--while, yes, the experiences are not uniform by any means, we have a lot of shared experiences, and it's in those experiences that really should create some empathy that we have for one another. And I--you know, and I think that's really, really powerful. So you're passionate about Latinx representation within STEM, and you've alluded to some of that at the beginning when you talked about yourself a bit. What fuels your passion in this space?Jorge: Yeah. I mean, I'll just--I reflect on my life and, you know, unfortunately, many times in my life I've been one of the few or maybe the only Latino in many work, school, and professional situations, and I'm encouraged because over time I like to think it's gotten better, and now when I look at the people we're recruiting into Accenture, there's more people that look like me, and there's more people that come from diverse backgrounds. But it's not enough, you know? We're not there yet. And rest assured we'll continue to push for better representation, more diversity, more equality, et cetera, and it's important because we know when it comes to STEM that STEM jobs are one of the fastest-growing segments with a lot of opportunity, and STEM businesses are also influencing our society, but when you open up a business or tech magazine you still see very few Latinos, and as I've said, for us to grow and solve our world's problems, we need everyone to be included. So yeah, I think it's really important. I think STEM's really important, and for me, having a STEM education has helped me in many ways and I think opened the door to many of the opportunities that I have. So I want that for my community and for our extended communities.Zach: I love that, and if you could give three points of advice to Latinx professionals--just three big ones, 'cause I know you have a ton of experiences and insight and just points of success and things that you've done, but if you could boil all of that into, like, three nuggets, what would they be?Jorge: I'll give you three that come to mind, and I think these would probably change if you ask me tomorrow, or they may be nuanced or different a little bit, but I just think--the first one I would say is something I try to remind myself, and that's "just think bigger." I think we all limit ourselves. We limit ourselves in, you know, our day-to-day lives. We limit ourselves in our long-term goals, and I think we all just need to remember to think bigger. You can do more than you think you can. I think--I shared earlier one of the big things that I've learned and live by is just to be tough and keep going. Sometimes just being stubborn and having a goal and just keep pushing for it is the important thing. Just be tenacious. And then finally I would just say remember to give back as you advance your life, as you advance your career. I think we all have a responsibility to help others and to give back in whatever way you can. Those are three that come to mind for me.Zach: I love it. Thank you so much, and those are really powerful, so I appreciate that. And of course this has been incredible, and I just want to thank you again for taking the time and speaking with us today. Before we let you go, do you have any parting words or shout-outs?Jorge: No. I mean, I agree. It's been an incredible experience. I appreciate it. I thank you for having me. It's been really a pleasure to spend time with you today, Zach, and I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.Zach: Hey, man, thank you. The pleasure is all mine, and we definitely consider you a friend of the show and would be honored to have you back.Jorge: Thank you.Zach: All right, peace.

On the third entry of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, lists seven things that you need to know before you go into your next interview - know before you go!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. So if you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I am here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking all about interviews, our favorite thing ever. So I am going to be giving you all seven things that you need to know before you go into your next interview. Literally know before you go. And these seven things are things that you can go to the recruiter about directly. I spent a few years as a recruiter, and it was always interesting the candidates that would actually utilize me to help them in their interview process versus those that didn't. So if you are working with a recruiter during your job search, it's best to build a solid relationship as you go throughout the interview process. Those recruiters are on your side. They are the gatekeepers, and they can become one of your biggest advocates and an important accomplice to you, as the recruiter typically knows the ins and outs of the company, and the majority of the time the recruiter wants to see you win, you know? At the end of the day, as a recruiter, for any candidate that a recruiter brings in, that candidate is definitely a reflection of the recruiter. So why not use the recruiter? Because if you win, they win. [laughs] If you look good, the recruiter looks good. So with that being said, the recruiter wants to bring in the best of the best people for the job, and best believe if they're calling you in for an interview, you are that person. So I'm gonna go ahead and hop straight into it. These are a list of things, just seven things, that you have to know before going into the interview. Know before you go. If you don't know this information, ask the recruiter, ask your contact at that company, but you never want to walk into an interview blind, right? So number one--well, I'll tell y'all a funny story [laughs] about an interview that I had that was actually terrible. I did not get the job. And this was before I actually became a recruiter myself, okay? I was very young in my career. Very early on, before this whole career coaching thing came about, I was not the best interviewer, and there was one particular interview that I had. It was the day after I got back from a wonderful vacation, and I did not prepare. I didn't know anything about the job. So please don't make that mistake. And I was late to the interview. Yep, yep. I was late to the interview. We all know - never, ever, ever be late. It was downtown, and I had to go pay for parking, and I had to find a building, and I had to walk. So I'm, like, literally sweating and late walking in because I did not realize that, "Oh, yeah, I may have arrived 15 minutes early, but it's gonna take me 10-15 minutes to actually get to the right place." So I was late, and man, I got into the interview, and guess what? The printer was down. So they looked at me like, "Hey, you have copies of your resume, right?" Didn't have it. Didn't have it. So--[laughs] Yes, like I said, I did not get the job. However, I've moved way past that now, and I coach people every day on how to do very, very well in their interview. And it definitely takes practice, you know? You may have to learn from your mistakes, but I'm hoping that, through some of the things that I share with you today, you won't make these mistakes anymore. So again, like I said, seven things you need to know before you go into the interview. Know before you go. Number one is who is interviewing you? You should never walk into an interview without knowing who that person is. You need to know their name. You need to know their job title. And once you get their name, go and look them up on LinkedIn. Get some insight into their background, where they went to school, what their career path was, how long they've been with the company, what they did before they got with that company. The best thing about doing research on interviewers prior to the interview is that hopefully you can find some common ground between you and the interviewer, and if you can establish that common ground, it will create a connection and a long-lasting impression that will be hard to get. No, it does not seem stalkerish--[laughs]--if you're looking them up. I mean, I would hope that you would look them up because those could be people that you would work with every day, and we spend just as much time, if not more, with folks at work as opposed to our loved ones, our kids, our family. So I do think we should all do our due diligence with those people that we'll be working with and that will be interviewing us. Number two. What is the interview format? So the interview setup can vary depending on industry, company size, and location, but I do have a question - have you ever made the assumption that you're interviewing with one person only to find out it's a panel interview? You don't want to be that person, because that can bring in some nerves or bring up some nerves that you really weren't expecting. So be prepared. And you need to know "Is it one-on-one? Is it a panel interview?" Are they taking you out to lunch before or after? Does it include a case study or a presentation? There are so many different types of interviews now. You want to know exactly what the interview format is so you can set yourself up for success. Number three - what is the interview process? You probably will start with a phone interview, but then after that phone interview, do you have to do a panel interview and then a final interview with the executive of the group? Not only do you need to know the process, but you need to understand or find out about the timeline as well. "How quickly are they looking to fill the role?" is something that you should always know, or you can ask, 'cause that will give you some time to plan out your life accordingly. If they want to fill the role quickly, they are going to move a little bit quicker in the process. If they want to take their time, then that guarantees, on your part, that you may want to interview with other companies and not just sit around and wait, especially if you're in a rush or if you are, like, at your wit's end at your current job and you need to get out. So understand the interview process and the timeline. You can always ask for that. All right, number four - location and parking information. As I alluded to earlier, depending on where you are--like, if you're in a big city and the interview is either downtown or uptown, then you likely will have to park in a parking deck, maybe on the street somewhere. Again, it could be hit-or-miss depending on the time of day, but you may actually have to walk from your parking deck to another building, to another building, then you may have to go up some stairs. You may have to check in at the lobby. I mean, these are things that you have to know, so give yourself some cushion. And you will want to know this information upfront. Ladies--ladies, ladies. Listen. I know we love wearing our heels walking into these interviews. It makes you feel more confident, at least I know for me it does, but look, I don't want to park, like, half-a-mile or a mile away from the interview and have to walk in heels, okay? So just be mindful of where the closest parking is and give yourself some time to get there accordingly, but you have to know that. Number five - salary information. You need to know what salary--what the ideal salary of the position is, or at least what the salary is that you're looking for, even before the very first interviews--before the very first interview. I've had a few clients recently that have said, "I mean, I got on my first phone call with the recruiter, and they just asked me straight up, like, "What salary are you looking for?" And I was not prepared." So you need to know that even--like, once they call you for an interview, you need to know that before your very first interview. What is that salary? You don't want to be in a position where you kind of lowball yourself, because once you throw a number out there it's kind of hard to say "Oh, you know what? I didn't really mean to say that number. This is what I meant to say." So just do your research upfront. You need to know that before the first interview. Number six is the job description. You should never, ever, ever walk into an interview without the job description. And when I say, you know, know the job description, I mean know it. Study it, read it, highlight, underline, take notes. What I recommend is going through that job description line by line and actually writing out what you've done in your prior work experience that is directly related to that specific responsibility. You know, there's typically two parts to the job description - responsibilities and then qualifications, so go through the responsibilities. Try to mirror from your current role or previous roles what you've done that's very similar to that, and then even looking at those qualifications. If they're looking for certain skills--you know, public speaking skills, right, or presentation skills, write out certain times or periods in your career where you've had to present to a client, where you've had to present to executive leadership, because you may get that question "Tell us about your presentation skills. Tell us about the last time you presented something." And you will need to be able to speak to that. Number seven - basic company information. [laughs] Some companies will provide a link to things to know about the company before the interview. Read that in detail. You can even print it and bring it to the interview with you, and allow that to guide the discussion. Now, if you don't receive that type of, you know, information, then go to the company's website. Read the About Us page. You can look at recent news, you can look at what's going on with their social media, but you will want to have some type of knowledge about the company before you go into that interview because some interviewers will actually ask "Well, what do you know about us?" You know? Or a question that 9 out of 10 we typically get in interviews is "Why do you want to work here?" And don't just say, "Oh, this just seems like a great place. Everyone seems so happy." Like, what? You know, make it as specific as possible. Show that you've done your research. So those are the seven tips. Just to run through those seven things again, the Know Before You Go. Who is interviewing you? What is the interview format? What is the interview process? Location or parking, salary information, job description, and basic company information. Lastly, use the recruiter for help. The recruiter is there to help you. Again, if you look good, they look good. And the last tip I want to throw in here about interviews is make it personal. If you know someone at the company that you've had a conversation with about their experience, bring that into the interview just to kind of show that you have a little bit more knowledge about the company and the culture, the team. Anything that can kind of show that you know more, and you will definitely want to speak to how you can add value to them specifically through those conversations that you've had. That would be great. And the other thing with that too is--let's say you move through multiple interview rounds. Take what you've learned--what was discussed in the first interview, take that to the second interview, you know? When you're in that next interview you can say, like, "Oh, yeah. I had a great conversation with Sally, and these were some of the things that we talked about, and this is directly related to that question that you just asked me." So you want to show, as you continue to matriculate through the process, your knowledge of what they're looking for and being able to clearly speak to it. So, again, these are things you have to know before you go. Don't be afraid to ask the recruiter. Let's say there's not a recruiter. You don't know the recruiter. Like, reach out to whoever that person is that invited you in for the interview. These are questions that recruiters [and] people are used to candidates asking, so don't be afraid. Know as much as you can before going into the interview. And I hope this helps, and I'll see you guys next time. Bye!

On the twenty-seventh installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting emphasizes the importance of being aware of your online presence. He shares several steps you can take to ensure potentially inappropriate items don't fall into the hands of future employers.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, let's discuss your online presence. Have you ever Googled yourself and found pictures of you wasted at a college tailgate or homecoming? Thirst traps from Photobucket waaay back in the day? Or even posts from that one reckless friend that they keep tagging you in? I definitely have. I've done my fair share of craziness on the Internet. We all have, but it's imperative that we clean up our online profile to ensure these items don't fall into the hands of future employers. So let's talk about some of the steps that you can take. First, make a list of all of your accounts. This may be difficult, but it will help you understand what you have out there. If there are some accounts that you no longer use, then delete them to reduce the risks of hackings and identity theft. Second, remove all of the inappropriate items. Remember, at the end of the day, you decide what's inappropriate to you. I'm not telling you to hide yourself from your future employer, but just review the material on your profile and make sure you're okay with the images portraying. Third, review and change your security settings. If you don't want recruiters or hiring managers to see what you're posting, then use the enhanced privacy settings for personal accounts, but remember - nothing is ever truly safe or private when you post it online. Even after taking all of these steps and cleaning up everything, you never know what might make its way onto the Internet or what might resurface, so it's imperative that we keep an eye on our online presence so we're aware of what's out there. Here are two tips to maintain your efforts. First, search for yourself on several search engines at least once every three months. This helps identify anything you might deem non-professional quickly so you can work to get it removed. Second, set up Google alerts with your name. Make sure to set up alerts with variations of your name so you're kept in the know about what pops up on the Internet about you. Nowadays, thanks to the Internet, people feel like they know you before they actually do. It's up to you whether you control that narrative. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Rah Thomas, a managing director in Accenture's Infrastructure Operations practice with over 15 years of experience. They discuss his role with the company and what it looks like to create access for other black and brown folks that are coming behind him. Rah also shares a few points of advice for today’s young leaders.Connect with Rah on LinkedIn and Twitter!Search open positions at Accenture.com.Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, again, y'all know what it is. Y'all should know by now, okay? We've been doing this thing for a few weeks, but again, if you don't know, you're about to know. Living Corporate has partnered with Accenture to feature some of their most black and brown--senior black and brown managing directors to share their journeys. My hope is you listen to these, check 'em out, and you peep the links in the show notes to learn more about each of them, including our interview for the day, today, Rah Thomas. Rahnold, Rah, Thomas is a managing director in Accenture's infrastructure operations practice with over 15--that's right, 15--years of experience. His primary focus is digital workforce transformation and infrastructure transformation to the cloud. Okay, that sounds, like, super fancy, I recognize, you know what I'm saying? But just come on. Vibe with me. Rah is also the national co-lead for the African-American employee resource group. He works across all inclusion and diversity workstreams, meeting with senior executives to improve recruitment, progression, and retention of top talent, okay? So this interview is gonna be dope. Listen, okay? He got the insight. He got the juice. He has the technical know-how, the background, and he's plugged into these spaces to have the real conversations, okay? That's why I'm really excited to talk to Rah today. The core to both of these positions is seeing past the optics and standard view of people, process, technology, and then streamlining that into maximizing the real underlying value, okay? With that being said, let's get to it. [pause] Zach: Rah, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Rah: Man, I'm feeling great out here, man. Feeling blessed, feeling blessed.Zach: Amen, amen. So look, for those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Rah: Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. I'm from the Bronx. New York.Zach: Okay, okay. Yerp. Let's go. [both laugh]Rah: I think by day I'm a managing director or partner for Accenture. I lead some of our diamond clients in technology and innovation, and then I also run the national African-American employee resource group for Accenture. So I'm helping shape our major diversity initiatives.Zach: That's incredible. So look, can we talk a little--can you unpack that a bit? Like, you have--you just said that you're one of the major partners for your diamond clients, and then you said you're the national lead for the African-American ERG. So those are two huge roles. Can you talk a little bit about both of those and what those actually mean?Rah: Yeah. Definitely. Definitely, man. I think--I think that being--on the technical side, I think that's sort of my craft, right? So I do cloud, right? I do service management, digital workplace automation, sort of helping do innovation for our clients. I have about four or five diamond clients that I help sort of push the line of innovation, which is a great segue into what I do from a diversity and inclusion perspective because I help our people of color--I mean, I'm the African-American lead, but I work with the Latinos, I work with our Pride, I work with all of our diversity and inclusion folks, and I help sort of shape that. You know, like, what is it from our targeted's perspective? You know, how do we handle things like escalations [and] things of that nature? So I go across the gamut nationally for all of that.Zach: That's incredible. You know, I love that because--when you talk about the fact that you're working across, because I think while every experience, every non-white experience, is unique, there's commonality in the fact that--and there's commonality in being some type of--just having a non-white experience, a non-majority experience, and so the fact that you're working across there is beautiful. And in fact, what I also think is interesting--and I'm late to the game, Rah. I didn't really learn until I was, like, in high school and college that the black diaspora is spread so far. So, like, when you talk about partnership across the Latinx spaces, so many Latinx folks are also black, right?Rah: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Well, so my wife is Ecuadorian, and my kids--so, like, trying to sort of help my children grow up and stuff like that, it's fierce out here.Zach: It is. It is. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So let's talk about a panel you were on last September for Black Enterprise. You participated in--what they called it was "a real conversation about succeeding while black and the dangers of truth and perception in corporate America." So, again, you keep dropping bombs, and that's kind of been a--that's been really, frankly, a theme across all of these leadership interviews, but can you talk about what brought that discussion and what that discussion was really about? Can you unpack that a bit?Rah: Yeah. I mean, I think--so I know you can't really see me out here, you know, but, I mean, I am a black man with dreadlocks.Zach: Yes, sir.Rah: And I am a partner at the #1 consulting firm in America. Globally actually, right? So the challenges that I had to sort of come against--you know, I got kicked out of board rooms. I've had some real real experiences, and I had to talk about sort of some of the authenticity that I had to bring to the table. Being unapologetically black, however still giving way for comfortability for people to understand my point of view and helping them innovate and move their bottom line. So it was really a dialogue about, you know, how do you do that while trying to break the glass ceiling? Which keeps changing. Glass ceiling, rubber ceiling, concrete ceiling. You know, it keeps changing on you, right? So you're trying to unpack all of that. So it was--it was a good discussion with a lot of successful black men where we delved into that.Zach: Now, wait a minute. Now, you know, Rah, I can't let you just slide that by. You said you got kicked out of a board room?Rah: [laughs] Yeah, man.Zach: You gotta--I need to hear that. I gotta hear that.Rah: Oh, you're [?]? [laughs]Zach: I mean, you--you opened the door. I'm trying to understand how you got kicked--I want to hear that story.Rah: Well, I mean, it was just--you know, I think I'm one of the best at what I do, and I'm confident, and I walked in with my client and I was like, "Listen, this is what we got," and, you know, my client's boss, who was a C-level executive, was like, "What are you doing in the board room here with dreadlocks?" And I'm like, "Well, you know times are changing," you know? And then I started my presentation and he was like, "Listen, you sit down." He was like, "Actually, don't say another word or you'll never work for this company again," and I was like, "What?" And my client was like, "Yo, Rah. Hey, back down a little bit. Back down." So I let it ride, but--and that experience, which was crazy, wasn't the crux of [?]--I mean, it had an experience on me, but it was how my company responded to it that really pushed me to be like, "Yeah, this is what I need to do," because what happened was after that, then my company then came to me and said, "Hey, Rah. If you don't ever want to work in this space again, we don't have to do that. We know you're good at what you do. We know that you can change the world and innovation, so if you don't want to work with this client anymore, we don't have to." And I was like, "Wow, man, that's powerful."Zach: Dang, that's crazy. So the client was talking to you crazy, and then Accenture was looking back at the client like [haha sfx].Rah: Yeah, just like that. Exactly like that. [laughs]Zach: "Haha." [both laugh] That's wild. So okay, okay. Well, look, I know that was--well, it really wasn't a non-sequitur, because you opened the door, and I wanted to hear about how that happened. Okay. So in my experience, in the instances where there are black and brown folks who make it to senior executive roles, they're often leading in, like, a technical specialty, right? So they solve--this is from what I've seen, Rah. I'm not saying this is the way of life. I'm saying this is something I have observed. So they observe a particular problem, and they solve a particular problem in a particular way. So I believe your role is a little bit different in that you're having to lead strategic conversations and work to connect the dots across a variety of specialties to deliver the most effective solutions. Can we talk a little bit about your experiences in such a connected and integrated role and what you've learned in navigating these spaces?Rah: Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing about it is--right now I think folks can't see the future. Folks cannot see the future right now, and if you look at it, 50% of the Fortune 500 companies over the past 15 years have gone bankrupt. So right now they're all scrambling, right? Normally they'd like to look around 5, 10, 15, 20 years in advance, and they can't see that. At any given time, a Google or an Uber can pop up and change the game. So right now all of these senior executives are really looking and saying, "Hey, we need to absolutely tap the best of people. We need to tap the best talent period. We don't care if it is white talent. We don't care if it is black, Latino, Puerto Rican, Asian, whatever," right? "We need the best talent, because we don't know where that next idea is gonna come from." So that's primed for diversity right now, right? That's where we live. So I think that that's sort of at the crux of where we're at right now. So yes, I understand from a technical perspective I'm good at what I do and what I have to--I have to reinvent myself every three or four years, so I gotta keep being on the edge of things, but more than ever I have to--I wear the extra hat to inspire other people to be authentic so that they can unpack that untapped potential, because they might have the next great idea, and it might come from a hard-working single mother who's been doing 15 years working at Target trying to, you know, do 1-2-3 at Target as a manager, raising three or four kids in the Bronx, and that single mother might come up with the great new idea that runs the world. So it's, like, understanding that. You have to think differently about how you do business.Zach: Now, that's incredible. You're so right, because with technology brings a certain level of, like, a democratization of innovation, right? Like, it's not--it's not just gonna be reserved for this certain group over here. The access is opening up, and I really--I'm curious about this. What does it look like for you, being in the position that you are, to--what does it look like for you to create access for other black and brown folks that are coming behind you? Like, what does it look like for you to lift as you climb, and how does that practically work in your position?Rah: I mean, I think--yeah, I mean, like I said, I started the call with "I'm blessed," right? I mean, I'm blessed because God has given me the opportunity to actually have the ability to create opportunities for people, right? I mean, which is--it's amazing, and I actually--you know, I got put on--I advise corporate CEOs, and I'm advising our CEO, I'm advising our C-suite and letting them know, "Hey, listen, you know, this is what a population is feeling, and this is how a population wants to evolve," and they're, like--and they're listening. They're actually coming to the table, and they're like, "Wait, we had no clue," and I'm like, "Yes." So it's enlightening. It's enlightening and humbling.Zach: That's incredible. That's awesome. So, you know, it's interesting--to that point--we're seeing shifts in how we're being represented. I would say as millennials continue to expand their corporate footprint. We're seeing the largest group of black and brown leaders in the workplace, right? So, like, millennials, we're not the youngest, sexiest kids on the block no more--sexiest kids? That's mad problematic. You know what I mean though. What three points of advice would you give to young leaders today?Rah: Hm. All right, so I would say--three things? I would say be authentic, be vulnerable, and have the dialogue, okay? But I almost have to unpack that, right?Zach: Please.Rah: So I say "Be authentic." You gotta say it with your chest, right? Be unapologetic. Be black or Latino. Be whoever you are, because it is--it is that thing that might propel you to the next--you know, next plateau. "Be vulnerable," because sometimes when you share some of these deep stories and you work through--I started sharing stories about my family, and all of a sudden I got--you know, a Jewish person in Middle America is just like, "Wow, wait a minute. That same thing happened to me." I'm like, "Whoa, really?" So you start doing that. You start connecting with people. And then have the dialogue, 'cause--I'll bet it might be uncomfortable, but you have to have the conversation. We owe it to our ancestors to have the conversations and build these connections, because sometimes people don't actually know. That's what ignorance is. The definition of ignorance is not knowing, right? So people don't actually know, and if you could sit down--if you can muster within yourself to sit down and have that dialogue, man, you can really, really change the world.Zach: Man. "We owe it to our ancestors." Hold on. [Flex bomb sfx]. I had to drop that. Man. Come on, man. "We owe it to our ancestors," man. That's real, man. So let me pause for a second, 'cause we have these questions--you said earlier about being unapologetic in who you are. Do you have any practical examples of coaching that you've given somebody--I'm not asking you to out nobody--around, like--what is some advice you would give in terms of how folks can be more unapologetic? Because we've had episodes--and the reason I ask is we've had episodes in the past where we talk about respectability politics, right? Like, the concept that if you behave, dress, speak a certain way, that majority folks will forget that you're not in the majority, that in some way that is some type of covering or camouflage for you. What does it look like for you when you give coaching and advice and direction and guidance to black and brown folks at Accenture? What does that look like for you to encourage them to actually be themselves? 'Cause you've talked about a little but, but I want to hear--Rah: You want the meat, right?Zach: Please. Please.Rah: [laughs] You know, I think it's--it's actually different, right? And I'm learning. I want you to--you know, I'm not the full expert on it, because I think that I have to be humble and learn on it, but I think that there's--it's different for black, and it's different for Latino, right? For black, which is one in the same, that--it's more about the visual aspect, right, and bringing your authentic self from a visual perspective, and then from Latino, you have to recognize that it's bringing your authentic self from a listening and an audible perspective, right? So I try to make sure that as I'm coaching folks I try to take in multiple lenses, but I feel like me doing what I do can unconsciously give you the ability to do what you do, and I think--I was a keynote for one of these speakers at a women's empowerment conference, and I went there, and I wore my Ecuadorian jersey, and I had my suit coat on, and people were like, "Wait, what is he doing?" And I'm like, "No, I'm being me. I'm wearing my Ecuadorian jersey, and I'm wearing my suit coat, and I got my [?] on, and I'm me," right? But it was so amazing. I even--I talked about my father being in prison. I talked about some of these crazy things, and people were like--you know how many people came up to me and were like, "Wow! Wait, you're in corporate America and you've got family members that are in prison?" Or "Wait, you're in corporate America and--" Pow. I mean, I had transgender, I had everybody come up to me saying, "Wow." Like, "I want to talk to you about my situation," and I was like, "Pow." But it was me being able to be myself that unlocked other people's ability to be themselves, if that makes sense.Zach: No, it does, and you're absolutely right, Rah. So I know for me, coming in--I'm one of the first men in my family, on my mom's side of the family, to start and graduate from college, and I'm one of the few people in my entire family in corporate America. So not really seeing a model of what--how to practice authenticity, you know, in my immediate familial circle, coming into the workplace and seeing an example of that, it is empowering. And, like, you will never forget--you'll never forget those experiences or those--when you see it, and so that's incredible. This has been dope. Now--Rah: I was gonna say it's almost like the line, you know, "when keeping it real goes wrong."Zach: Yes.Rah: We have to almost combine that with recognizing [?], like, "when keeping it real goes right."Zach: Real talk. Well, a lot of us--a lot of times we think that, you know, if we do something too wrong it's gonna be like [record scratch sfx], right? You know what I'm saying? Like, [?], right?Rah: Yeah. [laughs]Zach: But it's not, right? Like, we actually have--we actually have a lot more power than I think we've been in some ways conditioned to believe, right? Rah: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Zach: Okay, so last--so I got just a couple more. Now, you've also talked about the fact that you sit down with executives. You're having these conversations. They're actually listening to you. Based on your experiences, what would you say that organizations who are seeking to improve their engagement with black and brown talent--what are some things that they need to be thinking about and considering as they--if that's a pivot or a move they're trying to make as they seek to be more diverse and inclusive?Rah: Yeah, definitely. So I think the first thing is there is a lack of trust from the black community with corporate America across the board. So I think the first thing that you need to do in order to start building that trust is transparency. So when we start talking about the demographics, we start talking about compensation, we start talking about numbers, we start talking about, you know, what are our targets to make sure we can change things, that level of transparency is the start of a conversation, right? It's not the end all, like, "Hey, we published numbers and demographics. We're there." It's really around the start, and then the next thing is that we need to start talking about "Hey, what does good really look like?" "What does the utopia of the world really look like in corporate America, and how do we really achieve that?" And making sure that we're--we just did a leadership conference this past week, and I learned something completely new about transgender and the fact that they're struggling with bathrooms. And I'm like, "Wow." Wasn't even thinking about it, right? So it's--like, we have to listen to our people. So yes, be transparent and publish your information and start getting that level of transparency, but then second is sit down and listen. And when you start listening, "What?" [both laugh]Zach: No, you're absolutely right. And it's funny because--and by funny I mean it's frustrating, and often times infuriating, that, you know, when black and brown folks--when non-white cis heterosexual folks, when they're sitting down--able-bodied, non-able-bodied, disabled people--when folks in the minority speak up and they share their experiences, like, there's a huge level of emotional labor that comes with that. So I agree with you. It's imperative that if you're gonna have folks who have the courage to share something, it's not enough just to kind of nod and be like, "I empathize." It's about "Okay, well, how do we meet you and figure out ways to actually make sure that our culture is inductive to you being comfortable and thriving here," right?Rah: Yeah. So can I drop--I'm gonna drop one more on you right here.Zach: Come on. [both laugh]Rah: You're pulling me out. "Bring him out, bring him out!" [both laugh] So I think that it's not enough to be unapologetically black. You have to also accept those that are authentic in their world when it conflicts with yours. Okay, I'ma throw that back one more time.Zach: Say it one more time.Rah: [laughs] Right? It's because you can't let other people's inability to comprehend your greatness define how you're gonna be great, but you have to give them a way to be themselves as well. Because if we can't understand their opposition, they will never be able to understand our plight. So we have to come down to the table and say, "Listen, I need to talk to you, and I understand that everything you stand for is against what I stand for, but let's sit down and have a conversation." And when you do that you're like, "Wait, we've got more in common than we have apart," and that's when you start building bridges and connections.Zach: I love that. And I would imagine, Rah, because of the role in which you sit--you know, you're a MD for diamond clients, so you're having to work with all types of folks every day.Rah: Yes, sir. Yeah.Zach: And so it's about that relationship building. I'm gonna go off script one more time. [both laugh] So when I think about your brand--and I know what you look like, right? I looked on LinkedIn. I've seen the video where you talk about your hair and you talk about your faith. You know, what does it look like to manage--to manage relationships with folks who are not expecting a Rah when you walk through the door? And really what does it also look like when you--considering your position and your influence and your authority, what does it look like to really manage relationships with folks who might not be comfortable with a black--I'ma just say, frankly, with a black man telling them what to do or telling them what he thinks frankly. Like, what does that--what does that look like? How do you--like, I'm really curious about that, because I worked at Accenture some years ago--and I only knew, like, a handful of MDs at the time, and none of them were [?], so I'm really--like, this has been a question I've actually been wanting to ask just for myself. I've been wanting to know this personally. Like, what does that look like? 'Cause I'm just--I just believe that the folks that are running the diamond accounts--I'm sorry, the folks that are these executives, they're not used to--I just don't think that they're used to a black person telling them what they should be doing. So I'm just--I want to know. I really do.Rah: Yeah. So I gotta answer that in two ways, right? So first I gotta say sometimes I walk into a room, and I sit down, and I try to plug in my laptop, and I crawl under the desk and plug in my computer, and you get up, and I've had people be like, "Hey, can you go fix the projector for me?" And I'm like, "Wait, I'm actually the dude who's presenting." Right? [both laugh] You know? Right? So you have to--you can't get discouraged by that part, right? So that's the one hand that you have to experience, and you have to--you can't be like--you can't get mad and get your aggressions out. You can't do that, right? Because then I've also experienced a white male Catholic, you know, dudes that invite me to a male empowerment in the middle of America, and I went in there--I was like, "Wait, why is he asking me to go here? This could be dangerous." Zach: Straight up.Rah: [laughs] Right?Zach: They'd be like, "Hey, we'll go meet you out in the middle of the woods." You'd be like [never have the chance sfx].Rah: [laughs] Right? But I went out there, and I walked into this meeting, and there was about 20, 25 white males, and they walked up to me and they gave me a hug. And I was like, "What? What is--" I'm from New York. "What's going on here?" Right? And they started sharing stories, and they started giving me insights in my life. Like, I travel a lot, and they were like, "Yo, hey, if you travel a lot, you know, you should call your daughter on FaceTime so that she doesn't get disconnected from you." I'm like, "Wow," and I'm like, "Wait, why am I connecting with these white male Catholic Middle America Republican folks more than I'm connecting with some of these people that are in the hood that are trying to do different things," right? So I'm like, "Wait." You have actually have to sit down and have the dialogue. Zach: Hm.Rah: Pow. [both laugh] Zach: Rah, man, you are fun, man. I'm loving this. [both laugh] Okay, this has been dope. Before we get out of here, any parting words or shout-outs?Rah: Yo, this is dedicated to the youth, respectfully dedicated onward and upward. [?]! Sorry, had to throw that out there. But yeah, man, I just--I appreciate it. I do this for the people, and, you know, I just appreciate you having me on the show man.Zach: Man, I appreciate you as well, and man, look, we gotta--you know, we dropped a couple of Flex bombs. You know, I've been working on this soundboard, Rah, so I'm trying to, like--I'm trying to, like, add a little pizzazz to the show, you know what I'm saying? So I'm also gonna drop these real quick. [air horns sfx]Rah: Oh! [both laugh] Oh, man.Zach: Oh, man. Rah, we consider you a friend of the show, and man, I hope we can have you back.Rah: Definitely. Definitely, man. Thanks for having me, man.Zach: All right, peace.Rah: All right, peace.

On the second installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, talks about the importance of having a career readiness toolkit. She also lists the five things she considers a must when building your own. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. So if you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I'm here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking about your career readiness toolkit. So first off, what is a career readiness toolkit? Essentially it is what you need to be ready for your career at any moment, change, or event that could occur and significantly impact the trajectory of your career. So let me ask y'all this question. How many of us are living life on autopilot? What I mean by that is we are living life on a routine. I'm talking waking up in the morning, getting dressed, going to work, coming home, dinner, bed, maybe a little TV before bed, and then we do it all over again. There's no planning, there's no goal-setting. We are just moving on autopilot. Now, that happens to the best of us, where we can get into those routines and get comfortable. We may become a little stagnant. But when it comes to thinking about and handling your career in this manner, it could get a little dangerous. Now, I will explain why, but, you know, don't get me wrong. Living in the moment and enjoying the present is important, but being prepared for the future is even better, and you can do both. So if you guys have listened to the first couple of episodes you know that I am a career coach, and I talk to hundreds of people 24/7 about their career and their goals and what's going on in their workplace. Now, 90%--over 90%, actually, of my clients that come to my company for a resume makeover or a LinkedIn makeover, it's because they need a job ASAP. Like, by yesterday, and they should have gotten their resume and LinkedIn updated a long time ago. But you gotta start somewhere, right? [laughs] Let me be clear here, because this is gonna sting a little bit--you can be great at your job. I mean, I'm talking about killing it. Closing deals, getting ish done. Like, really doing your thing, and you can still get let go. So, again, you could be killing it at work and still be let go. I've seen this happen so many times. Now, I don't want to project any negativity or fear on anyone's career. That's not my goal here, but I want everyone to take accountability for your career and to--not to leave your future in someone else's hands. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. So going back to this idea of career readiness. You know, we hear the term "career readiness." It's more so related to doing career readiness programs for you, right? Helping them, young people, get ready for college so that they can transition into a career, but this was the challenging part for me. Career readiness is something that should be continued throughout your career and throughout your life. We should never stop preparing for our careers. I've coached people at the age of 23 to 25, 28, 30, 40, over 50. Our career is not just a one-and-done thing that we should just be ready for and stay ready for forever. That's not how it works, because our career, for most, changes over time. It doesn't stay the same forever. Now, this is important, because as the industry is changing and growing and emerging, and there's all these new trends, all these new technologies and tools, mergers and acquisitions, these new hiring practices, you know, with technology that's coming about. Nothing really stays the same. So our career is not really a linear path for most, so you have to make sure you're ready at all times. And there are things that may happen that's out of your control, so you've got to be prepared. You've gotta stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Another thing I want to note here is that--do you know anyone in your network, or maybe it's even you, who was poached for an opportunity when you weren't even looking for a job? You know, some of the best jobs come about when you're not even looking, especially if you are a high-performer. So it's something to keep in mind. The other thing too is that, you know, some jobs aren't really posted, or by the time they're posted they already know who they're going to hire for that role. So how can you build your career readiness kit? Or a better question is "What even comes in this career readiness kit?" So I have five things here that I want to share. The first in this whole kit is a resume. Now, I know you may be thinking, like, "Duh. Already know that." But I mean an updated resume. You know, you should keep your resume updated, really at least quarterly, you know? What happens sometimes is that we wait to update our resume, you know, when we just are in dire need. We may do it in a rush, you know? And then the other thing too is that it is hard to remember what you did in a position two years ago, three years or five years ago, or heck, even last year, so making sure that you're keeping it updated on a regular is gonna be extremely important. Second is a LinkedIn. Now, I'm sure you're like, again, "Duh. I know that." But not just a LinkedIn where you have a--you log in and then boom, there's your profile and your picture, but I mean a well-built-out LinkedIn that is SEO-optimized, every section is complete, there are recommendations, your skills and endorsement sections are updated. Like, your LinkedIn should be a 10. Now, the reason why this is important is because your LinkedIn can be just as impactful in your career, if not more, because people may see your LinkedIn profile before they even see your resume. You know, it's one of those things where, now in 2019, over 90% of recruiters are using LinkedIn to source talent, and so they may see your profile first before they even see your resume, but you have to make sure that your resume is--excuse me, you have to make sure your LinkedIn is the bomb so that when they reach out they will request your resume. So they kind of go hand-in-hand. You need your LinkedIn just as much as you need your resume. Now, the third is a network. Again, if you are living life on auto-pilot or if you are comfortable at your job you may not be in the practice of networking regularly, so you definitely want to continue to make sure you're building your network, not just within your organization but within your industry. When it comes to finding a job, people hire people. This is something that I really harp on. People hire people. So what I'm saying there is if you're in this job search game, if you are just applying to jobs online that you find, you're doing it wrong. Go out and meet people. Get out of your comfort zone, and get to know those in your industry that could be some great contacts for you. You never know who you may need in the future or how you may be able to help them. So the fourth thing is your brand. It's important to have a clear brand. Someone should be able to, one, see you online, right, or talk to you even in person and understand clearly how you show up in the workplace. How do you contribute to, you know, society through your career? That should be clear, and you have to make sure people know "Oh, okay, yeah, this is Sam over here. He is a bomb software engineer. He's doing X, Y, and Z." Boom. Someone should know what your brand is, right? Because your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. The last thing in this toolkit is confidence. So why is confidence important? Listen, I'm a former recruiter, and so I've met some really great--really great rock stars on paper, but then when we talk, you know, via an interview, they're very nervous, or they can't really elaborate or clarify, you know, about their work experience confidently. So listen, if you're not confident in yourself, who's gonna be confident in you? All right. So let me just kind of go down the list again in this toolkit. One is a resume, updated resume. Two is a bomb LinkedIn. Three is your network. Four is having a brand, and then five is having confidence. So that's all I have. Again, this is The Link Up with Latesha with Living Corporate. Thank you guys so much for listening, and have a great day.

Ade and Zach remember and honor the life and work of Nobel and Pulitzer Prize-winning author Toni Morrison, who passed away on August 5th, 2019, at the age of 88.Immerse yourself in her bibliography on Amazon.TRANSCRIPTAde: "So the literature you live and write asks and gives no quarter. When you sculpt or paint, organize or refute, manage, teach, nourish, investigate or love, you do not blink. Your gaze so lovingly, unforgivingly, stills, agitates, and stills again. Wild or serene, vulnerable or steel trap, you are the touchstone by which all that is human can be measured. Porch or horizon, your sweep is grand." That was an excerpt from Toni Morrison's letter "A Knowing So Deep." Toni Morrison can best be described as a writer for a generation, for a millennia. As a black woman, Toni Morrison did one of the most unique things I've ever seen in literature - she centered us. Rest in power. This is Ade, and you're listening to Living Corporate.Zach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach.Ade: And it's Ade.Zach: And you're listening to Living Corporate. As you know, we're not really, like, a current events podcast. We don't create content that way, right? Our content is fairly evergreen, and that's just the way we do things, but with that being said, there are instances where there are things that happen--if you recall, I think this was in Season 1, when Botham Jean was murdered by police we talked about that, you know? So there are instances that cause us pause to really do, like, something more targeted, or something more current rather, excuse me, and today is one of those times. And, you know, you heard Ade's introduction. Ade, why don't you talk a little bit more?Ade: Sure thing. So, as Zach said, we're not really a current events podcast, but when you lose someone as--and I don't want to use the term "lose." At 88, Toni Morrison lived a full, fulfilling, long life, but when someone as impactful as Toni Morrison leaves to join her ancestors, there's a significant tremor, I think, that we all feel, and I think it's important to put something like that to words. Now, at the time of this recording, Toni Morrison left this earth last night according to her reps, and I think--it shook me enough that I had to leave work and, like, have a chat, kind of talk to everyone else who might be feeling the same way, and even if you've never ever in your life picked up a single Toni Morrison book, it's never too late to start. Now, the reason that she's so significant might elude a lot of people, not necessarily because they've never read Toni Morrison and felt the weight of her words, but beyond how amazing she was as an author--which is deeply important--she was also an editor. She also contributed in a massive way to black history as it is being recorded, and it is so important that we're able to recognize and build on legacies like that. I'm gonna stop saying "um." I'm mostly just emotional. Toni Morrison had a way with words, which I think is the most singularly underwhelming statement I've made in all of 2019. You have to respect the sort of person who was able to craft an entire universe and prose, but you also have to respect the sort of person who kind of moves others to do the same. Like, there are writers and then there are leaders. I've never been a writer, but Toni Morrison charged all of us with the mantle of writers, insisted that if you have a story, tell it, take control of your own narrative in ways that I don't think we were empowered to do, told black stories from the perspective of black people in ways that I don't think it occurs to other people as necessary to do, right? Like, when you are systematically erased and made invisible in your own country, and then you dare to center your own narrative, there are a lot of questions, and some of you may remember the interview she had way back when--I think it was in the '90s or the 2000s--somebody asked her if she ever thought to write about white people meaningfully, of the lives of white people meaningfully, and that's sort of the question that we wrestle with on a regular basis, whether or not we realize it, is that as people of color, as people with marginalized identities, we are often asked to center the reality of others above our own, and what Toni Morrison did was powerful in that not only did she say "I'm not going to do that," it almost didn't even occur to her to do that, because the life you live is yours, and the life I live is mine, and the story that I choose to tell about myself is mine, and it is powerful because I own it, and the significance of that for me just speaks to authenticity. And I'm not one to wax poetic about authentic blackness, because I don't believe blackness is a monolith, therefore yada, yada, yada. I could insert all of the sociology prose here, but what I know to be true is that I don't often walk into a world that lets me just be. I am labeled and categorized and othered in a lot of different ways that really have nothing to do with who I am. It's everybody else's context of me, but reading Toni Morrison's works validated for me what I've always known in that I'm an individual and I'm allowed to be. Yes, I believe in my community, I believe in the strength of the community, I believe that we're stronger together. I ride harder for black women than anybody else in the world because we all we got, but what Toni Morrison stood for was our rights and not center other people's concerns about us, and it's the single most liberating concept, because once you stop caring what other people think about you, once you stop caring about, you know, being black in a public space where other people might not like your hair, your clothes, your skin color, your dialect, you get a lot freer, and you get a lot more mental real estate to care about the things that really matter, and that's just invaluable. I feel like I've been waxing poetic for hours. I'm sorry, Zach. Would you like to go over--Zach: No, no, no. It's all good. I relate to your feelings despite me not being--not being a black woman. Toni Morrison, like, she really carries the mantle and continues the tradition of black women really being the true North Star of human consciousness, or at least--especially American consciousness, in that she spoke the truth consistently, and she spoke the truth that wasn't just truth for black women or black folks. She spoke the truth, you know? There's a passage in--there's a passage in the Old Testament talking about wisdom, and the writer personifies wisdom as a woman, and the writer says, "Wisdom cries in the streets and lifts her voice in the square," and the imagery there is that there's wisdom in the streets and in the square speaking to be heard, crying out to be understood, and she's being ignored by fools, and Toni Morrison encapsulates that in so many different ways. For me it's just so timely, right? Like, when we talk about Toni Morrison--she did live a health--she lived a life, right? She did not die at an exceedingly young age, and we were blessed to have her for 88 years. Ade said so much. You said so much there that I'm not aiming to, like, be redundant. I know for me though, when I think about her quotes--not just her quotes and what she wrote, but, like, some of the things that--just the interviews that she had. Like, so from "Beloved"--I'm reading this one right here. "He licked his lips and said, "Well, if you want my opinion--" "I don't," she said. "I have my own."" Right? The reality of "Look, I don't--I don't need to bend my perception and my reality to yours," right? "My experience is valid because it is mine. My life is valid because it is mine, and to think my words and my truths are true," and that's powerful. We live in a day and an age, especially in corporate America--and I've had my own challenges, and I continue to have my own challenges, pains, both present, recent, and past that are really often built around not bending my knee to the fragility, to the entitlement, and to the insecurities of others, and Toni Morrison being a full-grown black woman her whole life--just lived her life without apology, and she wrote content that was without apology, and she carried herself with such matter-of-factness in her intellect and her genius. It was just incredible. It was absolutely incredible, and it's inspiring, and it's that type of attitude and it's that ethos that I believe really inspires Living Corporate, right? Like, we have--I have a mentor. I'm just gonna shout him out, Matamba. His name is Matamba Austin. Matamba Austin--and I'm also gonna shout-out Liz Sweigart. They're mentors of mine at my current job, and they encourage me with Living Corporate because--they say, "Zach," like, "Living Corporate is incredible because you're not beholden to anybody," right?" Like, "Y'all just do what y'all want," and, you know--come on. Like, Ade, we're not out here going crazy. We don't have too many gunshots on the podcast, anything like that, right?Ade: No thanks to you.Zach: No thanks to me, absolutely. You know, we have a few sound effects from time to time, but, you know, the point is we're not going all the way nuts, but we live in a world that is so built on control and, frankly, white comfort, that speaking truth in any modicum--speaking any modicum of truth rather, excuse me, is deemed as radical, and that's sad, and it's sad that we've lost someone who--or that someone has passed that embodied that so, but what I'm excited about and what I'm thankful for is that she has left a legacy of black and brown truth speakers. She has created a legacy, and she is one of the people who we can look to as one of our founders, right, of just black thought leaders, and that is incredible. And yes, she does stan. I do stan, rather. She is incredible. She is one of multiple--her, my mother, and Candis are some of the main reasons that I just--I have to stand for black women. Like I said from the top, black women are the--I do believe black women are the guiding star for human consciousness--like, for decency and consciousness in America for sure. And across the world, but I can speak to America as I live here. Any time you want to see the truth or you want to hear the truth, you just need to listen to a black woman, and Toni Morrison is a great example of that.Ade: Just a second that there's, like, a phrase--I don't know who the author was of this phrase, but I heard it a lot in my sociology class, Sociology of Education in particular because it's apropos. It's "We stand on the shoulders of giants," and it's so important that we recognize that because--I come from a very communal culture, and it's very easy to lose that in the U.S. because it's so very--we're so very, like, individualistic, but Audre Lorde, James Baldwin, Toni Morrison, Maya Angelou, all belong to this genre of truth tellers, like you were saying, who, in their own way, in however medium they chose to share it, they just told the truth, and they told the truth in a way that centered the black experience, and we all are spawning from that well of wisdom. And so here's to Toni Morrison. Have a sweet journey home. Zach: So, you know, we could continue to go on and on. One quote that I really want to read, out of the thousands that we could, is that--there's one that just sticks out to me, and it's one that I think about often, so I'm gonna read it here. So it starts this way. "When you get these jobs that you've been so brilliantly trained for, just remember that your real job is that if you are free, you need to free somebody else. If you have some power, then your job is to empower somebody else," and that is so much so the foundation on which Living Corporate stands and, beyond Living Corporate, on which I stand philosophically.Ade: Yeah, yeah.Zach: You know, I think that we live in a day, right, that--so white supremacy is still alive and active, and we still work in organizations and corporations that are built around white comfort and built for and by white people. So, be it malicious or not, that is the reality of the world in which we live. At the same time--not at the same time--no, at the same time. Hm. At the same time, black and brown--Ade: Look at you discovering grammar.Zach: Look at me. Black and brown people are in more positions of relative power in these corporate spaces than ever before, and it is imperative that--it is imperative that we use our power to empower others, you know? A friend of mine, he quotes this--and I don't know if it's his quote or if he read it somewhere else, you know, but he says, like, "A candle loses none of its light by lighting another candle," right? And so this quote about, you know, your job being to empower someone else, your role is to help--to give to others, that's applicable not only to those who are in positions of authority and privilege and power and access, it's also applicable to us. There's something that all of us can do to utilize our voice, to utilize our access, to utilize our privilege, to utilize our power, to utilize our skill set to help somebody, you know? I'm not gonna go on some rant about black economics or anything like that, but I do--I believe that there are practical, every day ways that we can empower one another and that we can uplift another, that we can support one another. There are plenty of very clear ways that, again, those in the majority can help and empower underrepresented and underprivileged groups. And again, there's also ways that we can empower one another, and Living Corporate exists to empower. Living Corporate exists to amplify the voices of black and brown people in the workplace. Living Corporate exists to tell the truth without apology and without caveat. Living Corporate exists to speak truth to power and not to be beholden by anybody. So yes, we're gonna do partnerships with Accenture and these other large brands, and we're also gonna keep it a buck while we do it. That's our goal, and that's why we exist, and so I just--Ade: A buck fifty.Zach: A buck fifty, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, that--I don't have anything else to say. I have nothing else to add here. I'm just--I'm sad, but I'm thankful. I'm reflective of course, and I'm just--I'm glad that we're here. I'm glad that it was because of Toni Morrison that platforms like ours, including ours, is able to even exist and even be appreciated in any dynamic.Ade: Yeah. I think the beauty of a person like Toni Morrison is that we don't need any more words. She's said them all. And I think, on that note, thank you for listening to this B-Side. Thank you for joining us. If you know anyone who's never read a work by Toni Morrison, pick something up for them. I love "Beloved," as you should, "Sula," any of her letters, any--like, anything by Toni Morrison. Pick something up and read. It's a beautiful--it's a beautiful time to be reflective and truly start to get back to understanding what matters. And love your family. Hold them close. You've been listening to Living Corporate. I am Ade.Zach: This is Zach.Ade and Zach: Peace.

Zach sits down with Michelle Gadsden-Williams, the managing director and North American inclusion & diversity lead at Accenture, to discuss her role at work and why inclusion is placed first in her job title. They also talk about her book, Climb, and how she sees organizations shifting in the next decade to be more inclusive to trans people.Read Michelle's full bio on AIT, and check out her book on Amazon! Connect with her on Twitter!Search open positions at Accenture.com!Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: What’s up, y’all? It’s Zach with Living Corporate, and I’m really excited to share something with y’all, okay? Now, I shared this last week, but just in case you missed it last week I’ma share it again. Living Corporate has partnered with Accenture to feature some of their most experienced North American black and brown managing directors and share their journeys, okay? My hope is you check out this and you peep the links in the show notes to learn more about each of them, including our next guest, Michelle Gadsden-Williams. Michelle Gadsden-Williams is the managing director [and] inclusion and diversity lead for North America at Accenture. Previously, she was the co-founder and chief operating officer of women’s empowerment initiatives and diverse entertainment investments, based in New York City. Michelle Gadsden-Williams has acquired a number of community service awards and accolades for her work as a diversity practitioner. More recently, she has been recognized as a 2015 Ebony Magazine Power 100 Honoree. Over the span of her career, Gadsden-Williams has been profiled in Black Enterprise Magazine, Diversity Inc., Diversity Executive, Ebony, Essence, Fortune, History Makers, Heart & Soul, Jet, New Vision—listen, y’all. Y’all get it, right? Okay, I’ma put the whole bio in the show notes. The point is Michelle has it going on. She’s killing it, okay? Beast. Straight up. [straight up sfx] And you know what? Also put one of those “owww”. [owww sfx] Like, this is crazy. I’m just so, so impressed. Her other notable tributes include being named the 2010 recipient of the Maya Way Award for Diversity Leadership by the incomparable Dr. Maya Angelou, receiving the 2008 recipient of the Harvard Black Men’s Forum Businesswoman of the Year Award, accepting the Rainbow Push Coalition’s Bridge Builder Award by the honorable Rev Jesse L. Jackson, and being recognized with an honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters Degree from Kean University for her outstanding personal and professional accomplishments in the field of diversity and inclusion. In 2013, Gadsden-Williams was appointed as a member of the Global Advisory Council on Gender Parity for the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Y’all… do y’all understand—like, come on. Give me the air horns right here. [air horns sfx] Like, this is incredible. I am just impressed. I mean, look, man, I’m over here—we grindin’. Like, like, like… [what more do you want from me?] Look, with that being said, the next thing you’re gonna hear is my interview with Michelle Gadsden-Williams. Check it out.Zach: Michelle, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Michelle: I am doing very well. How are you?Zach: [applause sfx] Doing really well, really excited to have you on the show. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Michelle: Sure. My name is Michelle Gadsden-Williams, and I am the managing director and lead for inclusion and diversity in North America with Accenture and the author of the award-winning book "Climb."Zach: Come on, now. [both laugh] Now--I love it. I love it from the jump. We'll be talking about Climb--we're gonna get there a little bit later in this conversation. Let's talk a little bit about the first thing you said, about the fact that you're the North American lead for I&D. And your title is I&D and not D&I. Can we talk a little bit about why inclusion has been placed firstMichelle: And this is a phenomena that's been happening, I'd say, over the past few years, where a lot of organization and diversity practitioners are starting to think of this notion of diversity as being--being a standalone entity is no longer enough, that inclusion is extremely paramount as having a culture of inclusion. So diversity is the invitation to the party, and inclusion is being asked to dance, as we say. So in my view, I&D is an essential component of everything that Accenture does, and we aim to be the most inclusive organization in the world, and so we recognize that inclusion and diversity foster greater creativity and innovation. So that's one of the reasons why we've decided to reverse it and have big I and big D.Zach: I love it, I love it. You know, and it's interesting, because a piece from Take the Lead, where you were featured, starts like this. It says, quote, "When Michelle Gadsden-Williams started working in human resources in 1990, the mission in her field was called affirmative action." And, I mean, that's really interesting, right? 'Cause we talked a little bit before we started the show--we talked a little bit about your tenure, right, and the breadth and depth of your experience, and, you know--so you started in 1990. Despite it being almost 2020, there are still folks who believe I&D efforts are some version of affirmative action. So, like, how do you, as an executive leader, navigate the fears and frustrations of those who look at I&D as a zero-sum game?Michelle: Yeah, that's an interesting question, and I'm going to go back to a piece of research that Accenture conducted a short time ago. And one of the things that we've done, earlier this year, is to take a step back and think about, you know, what is this impact of I&D in the workplace, and so we conducted a survey of about 18,000 employees of companies around the world, and we asked two very important questions, one of which was "How inclusive is your culture?" The other was "How willing are you to innovate?" And so while diversity factors very much into--and has a significant impact on--the innovation mindset, a culture of equality is the multiplier, and that's what's really going to help companies maximize innovation. So when I started doing this work many years ago, and actually it was just before 1990--yes, it was called affirmative action, and the strategy was really more about "So how many individuals of difference do you have?" So it was basically a headcount exercise. It had nothing to do with culture. It had nothing to do with inclusion. It had nothing to do about what we're talking about today. So fast forward to current day. This notion of inclusion and diversity has evolved, and now many organizations are really starting to see the true power of what this work represents, that it's not just about counting heads. It's about making those heads count and ensuring that every single individual, regardless of their difference, has an opportunity to realize their potential, realize their ambition, have a seat at the table, and to reach their career aspiration, whatever that may be.Zach: That's a really powerful point, because--it's interesting. I've been having conversations with folks who talk about inclusion, and I've asked individuals and leaders of organizations, like, "Look, how do you actually define inclusion?" And people will say, "Well, making sure everybody feels included." And I was like, "Okay..." [both laugh]Michelle: Well, that's interesting.Zach: And I'm like, "Okay..." But what I think is paramount when we talk about inclusion is the fact that inclusion from my perspective--and this may sound--maybe I'm framing it radically, but there's some type of distribution of power, right, to individuals so that they actually have a true voice. Like, I don't--I don't see a voice at the table absent some level of authority or power. And so when you talk about, like, career development and making sure that they're growing and that folks are progressing and things of that nature, what I'm hearing is--and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so help me, keep me honest--what I'm hearing is is that part of that inclusion definition also comes with some level of--if it's, like, promotion or positioning them, positioning folks, so their voice can actually be heard in ways that make sense, right? It's not just about, you know, nodding and smiling, but making sure that they're actually empowered.Michelle: That's exactly right. We all--like, we're all sitting around a table, that it's allowing individuals the place and the space to allow their perspective or their point of view to be voiced. So we all have a responsibility to ensure that that happens, whether or not people recognize that or not. I believe that's what true inclusion is all about, ensuring that people who have a seat at that table, they believe that they matter, that their perspectives and opinions and points of view--that they matter.Zach: No, I love that. I love that, and it's so--I really do believe--and I recognize your point in that where Accenture is in their journey, in their I&D journey, but I would challenge that--as I've had multiple conversations with other leaders, HR practitioners, other folks who ascribe themselves as I&D leaders or D&I leaders--that definition of inclusion, it always falls a little bit short to me. And maybe my bar is a little too high, but I'm like, "Okay, at what point are we actually empowering these folks who have been historically disenfranchised and under-represented in these spaces with actual power and, like, authority, so that they can actually, to your point, have the space and the breadth at the table to speak and actually actualize something?"Michelle: Exactly. And I think to your point, organizations are just simply not seeing inclusion as the right thing to do anymore. It just makes all the sense in the world, especially when you're talking about creating a culture of equity and empowerment where every voice counts and all of those kinds of things. This is the action that's behind all of that.Zach: Absolutely. And speaking of action, this year marks the 50th anniversary of Pride, and our workplaces are increasingly diverse, and in that diversity, trans individuals are working in the corporate space at larger numbers than ever before, along with black and brown professionals and, of course, intersect--we can't ignore the reality of intersectionality, that we have black and brown trans professionals also in the workplace. And so how do you see organizations shifting in the next decade to be more inclusive to trans individuals, particularly trans women of color?Michelle: I believe it all goes back to culture first and for organizations to look at building cultures where every single individual feels included and where they can bring their whole selves to work. Things like the Pride celebration--we had a week-long celebration here in New York, which was amazing, and I'm still recovering from all of the celebrations--Zach: Yeah! I had some friends out there.Michelle: Exactly. I just think that it's really about focusing on the individual, their needs and wants and desires, and a lot of us have very different lived experiences outside of the workplace, and a lot of societal burdens, we bring those things into the workplace unfortunately. And so when we talk about inclusion, when we talk about intersectionality and all of those things, none of this works unless the culture is such that it encourages and fosters an environment where authenticity, where being your true, authentic self in ways that invites others to be curious about your lived experience, all of this helps an individual to be a lot more innovative, productive. They will, by nature, feel included. I just think that all of this resonates, and all of this will ensure that, you know, individuals, they will feel truly valued for their differences and to be--and feel free to be exactly who they are, that they're not just there to check a box and that they're empowered to contribute in many ways. So I just think that the underpin of all of this is around culture. It's around innovation mindset. It's about the appreciation of the differences that we all bring to the table and the understanding and awareness that we all don't experience the world, our workplaces, in the same way, and that's what intersectionality is all about.Zach: 100%. You're spot on, Michelle. It's interesting, because what your point reminds me of--we just had a conversation with Tamara, the MD out of Austin--Michelle: Oh, Tamara Fields? Yes.Zach: That's right, Tamara Fields.Michelle: [?] a friend of mine, yes.Zach: Yes, and we were talking to Tamara about the reality of emotional labor. Like, there's a level of emotional labor involved in just existing as a non-white person in a majority-white space, right? So, you know, you see something in the news--like, because we were talking about seeing whatever atrocity you want to choose from--and not to sound flippant or dismissive, but if you're looking at the border crisis or you're looking at a police shooting or whatever the case may be, absorbing that type of content and then coming into a space that is uniquely alien to you can be exhausting. And to your whole point around, like, culture, what I'm reading--and I'm not saying you're saying this. What I read that as is that organizations will--organizational culture will change as the majority allows it to change, right? Meaning that if the majority of a space are adaptive to a particular culture, then the organization will shift, but if there is collective push-back against whatever the initiative may be, then things will slow down, right? And I think we see that, not just at a macro level--or at a micro level in our working perspective, but we also see it, like--we've seen it in the history of America, and so I think that really leads me to ask, like, when you think about--when you talk about culture and culture shifting, what advice or--what are things that you've seen executives do, organizational executives do, to facilitate cultural change for more inclusive workplaces?Michelle: Well, I think there are several things that leaders must do, the first of which is they have to make I&D, inclusion and diversity, a priority. There needs to be established diversity objectives and priorities, equal pay, advancement goals. Like, all of that needs to be established in order to shift the culture to the desired state. The second thing I would say is making leaders accountable, holding individuals' feet to the fire, and we have to track progress and really have some tangible consequences where if a leader does not--is not on board, then there needs to be some sort of--and maybe it's not a consequence. Maybe that is a strong word, but there needs to be some accountability in terms of ensuring that diversity and inclusion is priority #1 if we are to create the ideal culture that we're talking about here. I also think encouraging risk taking and ensuring that employees know that they have the freedom to experiment, to ideate, to innovate, and that's what helps us all learn and grow as professionals. So I just think all of these things will help us get to that ideal state and also create a culture--you talked about the freedom to fail. I think all of this helps in that regard.Zach: No, you're absolutely right, you're absolutely right. So, you know, earlier this season we had Chris Moreland. Chris Moreland is the chief inclusion officer at Vizient, and he was on the show. He talked a bit about covering and the actions that non-majority folks in the corporate space participate in to feel safe. I think the concept of covering--I know that you're fairly, if not deeply, familiar with it, as it's been--it's a fairly established concept. We see it in a lot of whitepapers from McKinsey to Deloitte. I believe Accenture's even talked about the concept of covering within the topic of D*I or I&D. What are some of the key covering activities you believe non-majority members commit in the workplace?Michelle: Let's see--okay, so say that again. So what are some of the--Zach: What are some of the key covering activities--what are some of the key ways that you see black and brown folks covering themselves in the workplace?Michelle: Oh. I would say things like not being active or involved in workplace activities like employee resource groups and things that can be perceived as polarizing. Sometimes people of color tend to opt out of things that might look or--at least from their perception--might look [like it's] nonsensical. So for example, I'm sure you're familiar with the employee resource groups or business resource groups depending upon which company you work for, and I've had individuals not engaged because they're like, "I don't need to be a part of that. I would much rather spend my time being part of the majority population." So that's a form of covering. I've worked with Hispanic colleagues who will change their name so that it's more Anglo-Saxon-sounding versus Latino-sounding. So for example, I worked with a gentleman named Juan Guzman, and he changed his name to John Guzman, because in his view it sounded less ethnic. That's a form of covering. So, you know, the list can go on and on, but I just think that when people cover--I don't think it serves anyone well. I don't believe in pretending. I don't believe in being something that you're not. You are who you are. Be proud of who you are. We are all individuals that have a gift and talent to bring to the table, regardless of what youre last name is, regardless of if you're wearing natural hair, regardless of if you are--if you have a thick accent and you're trying to get rid of that. I just think that the more in which these environments that we're working in are receptive and appreciative of the differences that we all bring, the better off we all are and the more productive we will be.Zach: No, absolutely. I love it, I love it. And it's interesting too because I think--so I was having a conversation with--I was having a conversation, just about some strategy pieces, with a colleague, and we were talking about "How do you determine, like, the members of your D&I space?" And the conversation was around "Well, we've got to make sure they actually go to events, right? They need to go to events." And I was like--and I was trying to explain to them. I said, "Look, I would not boot people out of a group, of an ERG or whatever you call it, right, in your respective organization--I would not boot them out of something because they don't physically attend an event." I said, "Some folks genuinely don't feel safe," right?Michelle: Right. That's true. And sometimes we just have to meet people where they are, right? Because everyone is not going to be on the I&D train, majority or not. So I just think sometimes you have to meet people where they are, explain to them what the benefits are of being part of these what I think are extremely beneficial infrastructures and organizations. It's support systems. It's infrastructures. It's, you know, an informal network of individuals who look like you, and you can talk about things that are unique and specific to your lived experience. So I think the more of which we can educate the non-majority members who don't feel safe being a part of these infrastructures--we just need to continue to work on them, but some people are not gonna get on board. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone is not going to be on the I&D train.Zach: No, 100%, and, like, I think the thing is--like, my point is I've been to some--so even when I worked at Accenture, right, like, there were happy hours and things, and the events--the events were great and people showed up and things like that, but I didn't always just--maybe I had a long day, maybe I felt like it was gonna be something else I was gonna have to kind of perform at. Maybe I was just nervous. Who knows whatever reason? That doesn't mean that I didn't want to be included in the group. It's just that that is not, at that point in time, something I felt like I had the emotional bandwidth to engage in. That doesn't mean that I might still not want to talk to somebody in that group or read whatever emails y'all send out. I just--it's different, and I think it's that--I think it's really considering that--especially when you have folks who are not black or brown or whatever that, you know, depending on that diversity dimension, overseeing the group. Like, sometimes there can just be some gaps because you just have genuine blind spots, right? And just understanding, like, "Hey, this is a different space," right? You know, this is not a technology implementation where you're coming to learn about the project or coming to learn about how this software, this SAP implementation, impacts your job. This is a space that's really meant to foster empathy, authenticity, and trust, and that's a different--to me a different level of measurement, right? And you can't just be so, you know, binary with it.Michelle: Yep, fully agree.Zach: [laughs] Okay, so let's do this. Now, you already kinda--you already kinda let a little bit of the dip on the chip, but can we talk about your book Climb? I'd love to hear about the inspiration behind it and why it should be something that professionals of color--and just really anybody, frankly--should have on their reading list.Michelle: Absolutely. So the inspiration behind the book was--I've always had the intention at some point in time in my career to write a book, and it wasn't until I was at Newark Airport in the United Airlines club lounge and a young woman walked up to me and she said, "Are you Michelle Gadsden-Williams?" And I said yes, and she said, "We used to work together many years ago at Novartis, and I've followed your career and all of the wonderful things that you've done. You know, have you ever thought about writing a book like Sheryl Sandberg or Carly Fiorina or Carla Harris at Morgan Stanley?" And I said, "Yes, but I just didn't have the time to do it." And she said, "You know, you should really make the time to do it, because you have an exceptional story to tell." So it wasn't until that young woman gave me that nugget, that idea to really take the time to do it, that's when I really thought seriously about putting pen to paper and telling my story. And so the act of climbing has been defined as the act of rising, to ascend, to go upward with gradual or continuous progress, and it's a term that I've used to describe my career over the years as a woman, as a woman of color, and as a diversity practitioner, and as you and I were talking about earlier, there's some individuals who have an easy go of it and can take the proverbial elevator up to the C-Suite, and then others not so much. They have to take the stairs with a backpack and no air conditioning. There's no smooth ride to the top for any of us, and so no matter how you ascend there is a journey that we each experience which, you know, ebbs and flows and it twists and turns, but with every step you get that much closer to achieving your highest aspiration, your North Star, whatever that might be. So my book Climb speaks volumes about my professional journey, and one of the things that I'm extremely passionate about--and this hasn't changed over the years--is helping people of color to maximize their full potential in corporate America, no matter where they are, no matter what profession or industry they're in or wherever they're employed. I've used myself as the subject, the protagonist, to candidly describe my jorney, and that would be the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything else in-between. And what I wanted to do was to focus on tackling some of today's most pressing workplace issues that people of color typically run into, but more importantly I wanted to offer some pragmatic solutions. So that's why I decided to write the book. It's my version of "Lean In" through my lens, the lens of a woman of color.Zach: I love that. So you talked about some of the challenges--and again, I'm not asking you to give the sauce away for free, right, but when you talk about some of the most common challenges that you're seeing black and brown folks face in the workplace, like, can you give us an example of one of those challenges?Michelle: Oh, sure. You know, working twice--being twice as smart, twice as good, but getting half as far. You know, that's the old adage that most of us, at least those of us of color, we've heard that growing up in our households. You know, this is not, you know, just jargon that we hear on television. It's our lived reality. And so, you know, the bar is simply at a higher level for those of us of color, and most of us know that.[straight up sfx]Zach: No, you're absolutely right.Michelle: Exactly, and most people of color are over-mentored and under-sponsored.Zach: Hold on. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. [record scratch sfx] Say that again.Michelle: Most people of color are over-mentored and under-sponsored.Zach: We gotta break that down. Unpack that.Michelle: We can have mentors all day long, people to show us the lay of the land and how to navigate and all of those things. We don't need that. We have a lot of that. We have plenty of that. We need individuals who are going to have a seat at the table, who are gonna be our advocates and champions and our, you know, sports agents sitting at that table, negotiating for us, putting our names up for promotion and for those stretch assignments where it counts. That's what we need.Zach: That is--that is so true. I've never heard it framed that way, but you're 100% right, because frankly I do believe--and in my work experience this has been the case, right? So this was the case when I was at Accenture. It was the case when I went to Capgemini as well and as I've progressed onto my current firm. There are black and brown folks around me--there are minorities around me who would show me how to do something, right, or give me the real from time to time. I was blessed with that, but what I didn't always have--and I had it more than others, to be clear. ['Cause] I have gotten promoted. Like, I've been able to progress in my career a few times, but the people fighting for me, right, the people who are really advocating for me in the same way or just even in a percentage of the way that they may advocate for someone who doesn't look like me who's doing half as much as I'm doing, right? And that's just a really good point. And it's so interesting, because when I talk to--when I talk to black and brown folks, particularly black women, the conversation often comes with a point of like, "Look, I'm working this hard, and I'm doing--I'm going above and beyond every day, and the response when I'm doing all this work is "Well, that's what you're supposed to do," but then if someone who doesn't look like me is doing, like, half of that--" To the point you talked about earlier, the old adage, which is based on history and reality. They do half of what I'm doing. They're getting their praises sung from the highest rafters, right?Michelle: Exactly. And so I think most of us who have been working in corporate spaces and places, we just understand that there's just more scrutiny on our performance, and a lot of this can lead to, you know, just lower performance, you know? Our self-esteem goes down. You know, lower ratings, lower wages, and sometimes job loss, because you're just not happy. So I just say all of this to say that yeah, the bar is simply at a different level for mostly women, but moreover [more] people of color.Zach: And you know what? So that last little point of distinction you made--and I promise I'm not trying to keep you forever, but it reminds me about the fact that you also--in the book you talk about intersectionality, and I feel like that point you just made just now was kind of an example of that. Could you unpack why you broke that out and you said "women," then you paused and you said, "Well, people of color."? Like, what was the--what caused that pause?Michelle: Well, that was just in my research for the book. Women and/or people of color, we do have similar challenges. Not quite the same, and this intersectionality that we're talking about--and this is such a topic that I have a lot of passion around, you know? I was just having a conversation with a majority female colleague of mine yesterday who just happens to be a peer, and she said to me, you know, "Michelle, we as women, we have the same challenges and we have the same barriers, don't you think?" And I had to pause for a second, and I looked at her--and I can't play poker, so I probably gave her, you know, a "Are you crazy?" kind of look. You know, as a woman and as a woman of color, my lived experience is vastly different than yours. So basically [what I said] to her is that, you know, "When I stand in my drive-way in Somerset County, New Jersey--that's not diverse at all and one of the most affluent counties in the state--but I'm standing in my drive-way and I'm holding my neighbor's child, who happens to be of the majority population, and the FedEx guy pulls up and wants to deliver a package to my home, that he automatically assumes that I'm the help and that she owns the house." You know, how often does that happen to you, colleague? How often is it when I walk into an elevator that the purse clutch scenario happens? And it happens to men of color too. So I could break it down for you in a lot of different ways, but, you know, my lived experience as a woman and as a woman of color, there's the double bind. So it's an interesting dichotomy, but it's real.Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] It is an interesting dichotomy, but it is real. Absolutely, and that's why I had to give you the Flex bomb, 'cause you're dropping straight facts. [both laugh] Okay. So look, this has been a great conversation. I'm honored and just very excited about the fact that you're here and that you joined us today. Before we go, any parting words or shout-outs?Michelle: Oh. This has been a terrific conversation, so I thank you for inviting me to be a guest on your podcast. Any parting words? You know, one of the things that my father would say to my two sisters and I growing up is, you know, "You are not here on this earth to take up space. You're here to make a difference, and it's up to you to determine what that difference is. All that I've given you is the tools, the education, and the rest is up to you." So all I will say to your listeners is you have to figure out what your passion is, what your purpose is, and determining how you plan to exert your power. You know, what are some of the kinds of things that give you fulfillment? You know, what feels natural to you? What qualities or attributes do you enjoy expressing to the world? And then just go for it. Anything is possible. Anything is. We just need sponsors, mentors, and others, other allies, who are gonna help us get to that next level. And if there's anyone out there who thinks that they can do it alone, I believe that they're sadly mistaken.Zach: And that's absolutely right, 'cause if you think--if you really think that in this space, as a black or brown person, that you're gonna navigate these historically-white spaces by yourself? Hey, I'm looking at you--Michelle: Exactly. I mean, we're working in institutions that weren't historically built for us.Zach: Absolutely.Michelle: We were not welcome, so therefore we have to be twice as good, twice as smart, Ivy League-educated or whatever the case is. We know that we need to do alllll the extras in order to get to where we want to be.Zach: No doubt. And I was just trying to say that if you really think you can do it by yourself, I'm looking at you like [haha sfx].Michelle: Exactly. Exactly.Zach: Well, Michelle, I just want to thank you again, you know? At some point in the episode we typically drop some Jamaican air horns, because--[Michelle laughs, Zach laughs] Out of thanks or out of exuberance, and I'm just gonna say I'm gonna drop these out of thankful exuberance right here... [air horns sfx] because this has been a dope, dope episode, and I look forward to having you back. Thank you so much.Michelle: Absolutely. I look forward to coming back and wishing you all of the success in the world.Zach: Thank you. Peace.Michelle: Peace.

On the very first episode of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, lets us know that selfies are not headshots, and she graciously shares a few tips that help take a great one. Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, y'all? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd, and I'm here to help you find your calling, clarity, and confidence to level up professionally for your career, and today we're talking about why selfies are not headshots. I tweeted about this recently, and my timeline was literally blowing up with DMs and mentions about it. Now, the tweet says, verbatim, "Selfies are not headshots. Now, repeat after me. Selfies. Are Not. Headshots. Now let's say it all together. Selfies are not headshots." When I tweeted it, honestly I was just sick and tired of seeing selfies as headshots over and over and over again. It was funny, but all jokes aside, it has to stop. As a career coach and a former recruiter, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, and we've all seen this time and time again where someone's profile picture is just downright weak sauce. It's not professional. It just doesn't work. It's bad. Now, specifically, talking about LinkedIn, your profile picture is the first thing people will notice. Statistics show that LinkedIn members with a photo receive far more engagement, 21 times more profile views, and 9 times more connection requests. That's just one of the many reasons why it's so important to have a quality headshot. As a former recruiter, I would look up every single person on LinkedIn--yes, every single person--before I interviewed them, and I can attest that all other recruiters do the same thing. Your online professional presence is important, and your picture is the first impression. So let me ask you this. Do you want to make a bad impression or a good one? Selfies. Are. Not. Headshots. Say it with me. [laughs] So I want to talk about what else is not appropriate in a headshot. There are other people cropped out of your photo. This is always super awkward, where you can tell that clearly there was someone cropped out of the picture, because guess what? You can see a hand on the shoulder. You can see maybe an arm around the shoulder. It's weird, and it's distracting. Other things. If you have on a tux, or if this is a picture from your wedding... I know you look nice. That was probably the best day in your life, right? But that's doing a little too much, okay? Now, blurry or fuzzy photos, that really has to stop as well. [laughs] Or we've all seen this, someone has a picture of them on the beach. They're on vacation. You know, you can see the water in the back, you can see the sunset. Now, unless you are, like, a professional traveler, not the best picture to use. Other things I've seen is if the picture is too dark and it's kind of hard to make out who the person is in the picture, or--we've all seen this--where someone is holding a drink. Definitely no drinks in your picture. There really should be nothing in your hands. And then the other thing is your headshot should not really be showing your hands at all. So let's talk about what actually is some things that make a headshot good. Now, let me just say this - professional headshots are the way to make sure that it gets done right and it gets done well, but I do understand that paying for professional headshots can be a little bit costly, right? So I want to give you guys some tips and tricks on how you can actually use your phone to get a really good headshot. First off, you want to make sure you get in front of a plain wall, and just get a friend, you know, or a family member to take the photo of you. Again, a plain wall is good, or even just a bright plain background. Outside will do. The lighting is always so great outside, typically, but you don't want the background to be too distracting, which is why everyone recommends a plain background. In terms of that background, you don't want to wear something that kind of blends into it, right? So if you decide to wear a yellow top, you don't want to take your picture in front of a yellow wall. Make sure you dress up, you know? Make sure you look nice. Ladies, throw a little make-up on. Some light jewelry, fellas, you know? Make sure you have a fresh cut. You know, those things that we all do to make ourselves feel good and look good. Now, some people will say "Make sure you wear solid colors." I typically love just bright colors and prints. So just wear something that is representative of you and your profession where you feel confident. You can kind of feel that confidence through the picture. Now, make sure that you smile, all right? Not just with your mouth, but smile with your eyes too. Make sure the lighting is bomb. Bright photos do pop more on LinkedIn. And make sure it actually looks like you. You know, ladies, we love to switch up our hair styles, but we usually all have that signature look, so you want to make sure that someone can actually recognize you from seeing your picture online versus actually seeing you in person. Just some other quick tips. You can always get some equipment, you know? They have those tripod stands. You can buy a backdrop. You can buy something for lighting. Amazon--Amazon is my best friend, so I'm always looking for things on Amazon. Check out Amazon for just some cheap equipment that will get the job done for you, especially if you don't have anyone to take the photo of you. So use an app like VSCO, or V-S-C-O. It's an app that's free, and it allows you to edit photos to make them look like they are professionally done. The iPhone portrait mode is fire, so don't be afraid to use the portrait mode. Now, kind of going back to the whole professional headshot thing or working with professional photographers. Again, that is your best route. Some professional events offer free headshots. For any college students, most career centers, they do offer free headshots to you. And honestly there's just a lot of dope photographers out there, so I would encourage you to look up some photographers and challenge yourself to actually get behind the camera and let someone take that hard work out for you. I do recommend getting new headshots on an annual basis. I have seen where people have headshots from 5, 10 years, 15 years ago, and it doesn't even look like you anymore. So, you know, really think about it. Invest in yourself. Again, having a good headshot will really enhance your professional brand. So that's all for today. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have any questions, thoughts, comments, you can find me on IG and Twitter @Latesha_Byrd. That is L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd, B-Y-R-D. Thanks for listening to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd. Until next time. And repeat after me. Selfies are not headshots.  

On the twenty-sixth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting talks about the measures he takes to address workplace conflict. Conflicts with coworkers are inevitable, always uncomfortable, and typically left unresolved, so be sure to utilize the three-step approach he shares! Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, Living Corporate fam? This is Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, we're gonna talk about the steps I take to address workplace conflict. Conflicts with coworkers are inevitable, always uncomfortable, and typically left unresolved. Often times, this has an impact on our desire to show up and our ability to do our job each day. While this is always difficult territory to navigate, I typically take a three-step approach to address conflict head-on at work and to also cover myself. First, assuming the person isn't hostile, try speaking with the person directly in a face-to-face conversation, and if you're not in the same office, then get on the phone. Things can be easily misconstrued over email as there's no way to decipher someone's tone, so try to avoid addressing conflict over email wherever possible. Reaching out to meet or get on the phone is a simple gesture that shows you are invested in resolving this. It also helps ensure they actually are aware of what the issue is. Always follow up the meeting with an email outlining the conversation so anything that you or the other person said isn't misrepresented if you need to take it up the chain. Second, if that doesn't resolve the issue, make your boss aware of it and your attempts to resolve it directly with the person. This conversation can happen during a 1-on-1, or if it's truly a pressing matter, then get on their calendar. Use the email or emails you sent in step one to help shed light on the situation and even forward them to your boss if necessary. One quick note: if the conversation with your boss happens face-to-face or over the phone, be sure to follow it up with an email as well. Third, if your boss doesn't address the issue or the situation persists, then I suggest getting Human Resources involved. Very similar to what you did with your boss, inform them of the steps you've taken to attempt to resolve the issue, provide the documentation, and inform them of the impact of such actions on your ability to do your job. While I know it's difficult to speak up in these situations, it's imperative that we address these situations quickly and advocate for ourselves throughout the process. Just be sure to document every step along the way so when it comes time you have receipts. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Nigel Stephens, the director of government relations for Accenture Federal Services, to discuss the mixing of politics and work. Nigel breaks down the real definitions of economics and politics and details his role as the primary liaison with members of Congress and policy makers for AFS.Connect with SCORE on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTube, Pinterest, iTunesSearch open positions at Accenture.com!Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture Federal Services on the following platforms: LinkedIn, TwitterConnect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: Nigel, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Nigel: I am doing well. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate the invitation.Zach: I appreciate you being here. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Nigel: Well, I'm a bit of a local in the Washington, D.C. area. I was actually born in Jamaica, but my family came here in the '80s. I grew up in Maryland and still reside in Maryland. I'm in Prince George’s County. I've been involved in political campaigns since I was a child. My parents were very active in the community. My mother was a teacher at Montgomery College for decades, and my dad was an entrepreneur. He was an accountant and ran his business out of our basement for a number of years. So he was very active in the community, and that was just a part of my upbringing. So part of this discussion about being in government relations, I've been in government or government relations as a professional for over 20 years.Zach: Wow.Nigel: Yeah, and I--you know, I love politics, and I love the role of government as it plays a role in everyone's life. The negotiations--there's an old saying--the negotiations of and maneuvering of politics dictates almost every aspect of your life, whether you like it or not, from the safety and quality of the food you eat and the air you breathe to the education you receive, to whether or not your favorite sports team gets the stadium or not, you know? Negotiations in politics controls all of that. It determines all of that. When I was a senior in high school, I was blessed enough to get an internship with Senator Ted Kennedy from Massachusetts, the Lion of the Senate, and it was there that I really got an education and learned the real definition of the terms "economics" and "politics," right? Economics is the distribution of scarce resources, and politics is simply the method by which we determine who gets what, when, and how. So once learning that I fell in love with the place, and I have never left Capitol Hill since. I've worked in it, on it, or related to it every way I possibly could since that time.Zach: And you know what? It's that profile, Nigel, why we're so excited to talk to you today, 'cause as you know, we're talking about politics at work, and I'm excited to talk to you today because in a large sense, I mean, really, politics is your work. Can you talk a little bit about your role as Accenture's primary liaison with members of Congress and policy makers? Like, what does that--what does that mean?Nigel: For me, I lead Accenture Federal Services' government relations team. So I am an advocate for all of the work that we do for the federal government as a client. I really like that, 'cause it's my way of giving back while still having a professional career. I mean, when I'm doing--when I'm having conversations with new joiners, I really try to get them to keep things in perspective of what they do, whether you're a technologist, you're a coder, you're a strategist, whatever it is. What is the big picture of what you're doing? I mean, we provide services to clients and help individuals get their student loans processed. Healthcare. You know, all of those types of meaningful things that make a real difference in real people's lives, and my direct role in government relations really falls into four categories. Strategic advisor, facilitator, translator, and educator. So I provide the strategic advice based on what's happening with authorizations and appropriations and funding of programs to my business team so they can provide better service to their clients. A facilitator to try to promote communication and coordination between the private sector and industry and the government. As a translator, I--so I'm not a lawyer. I went to business school, so I was trained in--I went and got an MBA, so I was trained in that. Communicating and translating the thoughts and intents of business to the government, to legislators, and vice versa, and then finally is educator. There's a lot of--any given day, members and their staff are dealing with hundreds of different issues, and they can't be subject matter experts in every single one. So part of my responsibility--I think the largest part of my responsibility is really serving as an educator to those on the Hill about what the art of the possible is, about what's happening in the private sector, about what industry is doing, about what new things are happening in technology and how that innovation can really help them meet their real core goal, which is providing service to citizens.Zach: Nigel, now, you know what I love? Is that you out here just--you casually, casually dropping bombs, right? Right? Like, I got to give you the [Flex bomb sfx]. I got to give you the Flex bomb. It's crazy. I mean, my goodness gracious. Okay, that's dope.Nigel: Did you for real just drop the Funkmaster Flex bomb?Zach: I did. I got a whole soundboard over here, man. I be like [haha sfx], you know? Nigel: [?] You're doing it.Zach: I got all kinds of stuff over here, man, but look, I really appreciate the answer. It leads me to the next question. Now, has there ever been a situation where your own life experience has shaped how you approach a policy discussion? Like, how do you decide when and where you, you know, flex and let people know, "Hey, actually, I know what I'm talking about," versus where you decide to kind of lean back and let things play a little bit.Nigel: Take it to a bigger picture. It's not so much on a specific policy area, but for my life experience, I think the lesson would be to be vigilant about building your skills and have confidence in your abilities. When I was starting out my career, there were your veteran rock star African-American lobbyists, right? Your Vernon Jordans. Your Toni Cook Bushs. Your Ben Johnsons. They were another upper echelon of influence, but there weren't that many at just the general corporate level, right? Even more, there wasn't really a clear path to where I wanted to go, which is at that corporate level. So I had to really build a diverse set of skills. You know, whether it be political management, financial management, an MBA, where do I get the diverse skills that I'm going to need to piece together to be effective in the role that I want to get to, and then have confidence that I'm building the capabilities to bring my best self to the table? Now, applying that to the policy realm, you know, Accenture's about technology and innovation, right? How is tech being used and how can it be leveraged in the federal government, and how can those best practices in the commercial sector be applied in the federal government to help them bring those services to citizens more effectively? And then even more, in our current atmosphere, at a cheaper price. Now, in government they may not always see the vision, right? They may not be on the tip of the spear of innovation, and unfortunately sometimes inertia and, you know, "We've always done it this way," "This is the safest way of doing it," can be the worst enemy to progress, regardless of how much that progress is needed or regardless of the benefits that could occur, right? But we have to be vigilant as policy makers and as a company trying to provide services to the policy makers. You've got to be vigilant about building those skills and capabilities. You know, what's that new--is it AI? Automation? Machine learning? Is it migrating things to the cloud? Is it ERP systems? What are those innovative things that are happening in the commercial sector? Building those skills and capabilities, and then also being confident in that what we're offering to the client is in the best interest of the client.Zach: Man, I love that. And, you know, again, it's almost like--it's almost like, you know, you've been doing this for two decades, Nigel. [both laugh] I would imagine that your role demands a certain level of intellectual [?]. You have to know what you're talking about when you're coming in and you're advocating for the services that Accenture provides, but also at the same time a certain level of emotional and social intelligence in actually--in how you actually engage those topics with your audience. Can you talk a little bit about the role that emotional and social intelligence play practically in your role day-to-day?Nigel: Yeah. There's always the requirement of learning, lifelong learning. You've got to be committed to it, right? I was telling some colleagues the other day that my kitchen table is covered with books that I never felt my kitchen table would be covered with, about AI and coding and automation and those kinds of things, because I have to really understand the subject matter even though we have subject matter experts that will be exponentially smarter in these things than I ever will be, right? They live it, but for me with the emotional and the social intelligence, you know, as a lobbyist, I always try to keep in mind that elected officials and their staff are always primarily focused on outcomes. They're always focused on meeting the needs of the real people that they represent, right? We may not agree on all of the politics, we may not agree on all of the policy, but I have to keep in mind that your whole purpose of being there, working these long hours for the pay that you get, is because you care about the constituents that you're representing and you're really trying to make a difference for them. So keeping that awareness is, you know, essentially keeping things in perspective, even during the most heated policy debate, right? And then essentially a part of my job is--the main requirement is to pay attention to the nuances of government, you know, and the people in the government, and you can't fake that, right? It's not what you necessarily see on television every day, right? That's the upfront, you know, constant barrage of social media and the 24-hour news cycle. There's a lot of nuance [in] those individuals, what they're working on, what they're passionate about, and how you're gonna play a role in all of that, and you really have to pay attention to that.Zach: Expand a little bit about that. When you say, like, the upfront, like, what do you mean by that?Nigel: Well, there's the stuff that you--that professionals report on, right? That's the high-level news that you see, but at any given time when I walk into an office, a member or a staffer is dealing with a number of different personal and professional issues. You have to look at a staffer--when I was on the House side I was working for a congressman from Maryland, Congressman Albert Wynn. My portfolio included environment, health care, education, transportation, small business, and telecommunications, and I was also the staffer for the Minority Business Task Force for the Congressional Black Caucus. Now, at any given time, I was dealing with issues from, you know, building roads on one side, and then that meeting would end, and I would quickly have to transfer over to satellite communication technology, right? That discussion--you have to keep in mind that these are human beings that are working long hours and that their minds are focused on all of these different things, so having that type of--that emotional intelligence for the challenge that they're facing every single day allows you to approach the conversation in a certain way so it's the most effective use of their time and yours and you can actually make a difference.Zach: Nigel, you're a political relationship subject matter expert, so you know the difference between good and bad, quote unquote, politics, right? Can you give us some examples? And I kind of want to--I want to really take your insight and experience in Capitol Hill and talk about office politics a little bit, 'cause I know you've seen it. You've seen it all, right? 'Cause you don't just--you don't just live in Capitol Hill, you also have to go into the office, you have to--you know what I'm saying? Like, you flex between a variety of different environments, right? So can you give us some examples of, like, tacky office politics and things that all employees, but especially employees of color, should avoid?Nigel: Okay. Well, there's an old adage in government relations and lobbying that "there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interests." And instead of "enemies," "permanent opponents, only permanent interests." And you also have to keep in mind "What is your permanent interest, and does getting involved in petty office politics help your movement towards your interest, or is it creating unnecessary risk?" Right? The shorter version of that is "Keep your eyes on the prize." I would strongly recommend--my personal opinion is don't get involved with that, office politics, because the deck chairs are always gonna shift, right? The only consistent thing in life and in business is change, so there are always gonna be people spending a disproportionate amount of their time worrying about those types of things. I try my best to avoid it. I recommend that people try their best to avoid it. Maintain positive and, even more so, positive and strategic relationships, and focus on delivering your best every single day. You do that and then, you know, the other stuff will play itself out, and often times, you know, you're in a steady state, you will find that you will actually progress moving forward in a straight line, in a linear fashion, versus, you know, losing your focus and getting engaged in other things that aren't gonna help you.Zach: So let's shift gears a little bit. You know, you serve on the board of directors of SCORE, a non-profit organization and national partner to the U.S. Small Business Administration dedicated to entrepreneur education and the formation, growth, and success of small business nationwide. What was your reason for engaging in this space? And at the board level, right? There's plenty of things that you could be doing, Nigel, with your time and with your various talents. What was it about this space that got your attention and your passion? Nigel: Well, I have a long history with small business. As I mentioned before, you know, my dad ran his business out of our basement for years, right? So I've seen--I've got a number of family members that are entrepreneurs and small business owners, and so I've witnessed first-hand the impact small businesses have, not only on a household but on a community in general, right? The positive impact that that can have. I said before, when I was on the Hill, on the House side, the first time I was the staffer for the Minority Business Task Force for the Congressional Black Caucus. When I sent to the Senate to work for Senator Carey on the Senate Small Business Committee, you know, I was working on policy issues that would promote and advance the cause of small businesses and entrepreneurs, and SCORE was one of those organizations that I worked very closely with as a Hill staffer. And then when I got the opportunity to join the board I jumped at it. I mean, these organizations--this is an organization of 11,000 volunteers that are former executives. So these are retired corporate executives and former entrepreneurs themselves who are willing to share their wisdom FOR FREE. Let's say that again. FOR FREE.Zach: For free.Nigel: For free. So if anyone is listening, and you're running a business now or you're interested in starting a business and being an entrepreneur, I strongly encourage you to reach out to SCORE. [straight up sfx] I strongly encourage it. It is a wonderful opportunity. But at the board level, I think I get an opportunity to really provide strategic advice and guide the organization in a way that I can make a difference. The decisions I'm making now and the input that I'm providing now is gonna lead the organization into the future 10, 20 years from now, right? So what are they doing with regards to investments in the organization and building it out, and what are they doing with regards to reaching out to diverse communities and reaching out to the new generation of entrepreneurs, which may be your millennial-aged individuals. What does that mean? What does that mean for women and minorities who are disproportionately creating new businesses faster than other communities? Like, how are we serving all of those communities in such a way that it's really making a difference? And these guys are serving everyone from Mom and Pop sandwich shops all the way up to your innovative technology companies. So how can we help--how can I help play a role in that organization doing its best to reach all communities?Zach: Well, that's incredible. You know, what I think is really powerful about you being in that position is, as we know, there are systemic and structural challenges that come with economic self-empowerment and advancement and really participating on these stages--and when I say we I mean, like, black and brown folks in these spaces--so you having that insight and giving your point of view in how--not just your point of view, but your strategic wisdom I believe is very much so invaluable, so that's powerful. Because a lot of this stuff, like, we don't really know--a lot of us don't really know where to start, right? It's not--it isn't, you know, your grandfather's space anymore, you know? It's more complex. There are different hurdles to jump and spaces to navigate. So that's really incredible. This has been an amazing conversation. Before we let you go--Nigel: Thank you.Zach: Yeah, nah. Hey, I appreciate you. Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Nigel: Well, I just want to thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate the invitation, and I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation. It's really made me think about, you know, the context of what I do and what--there are a number of others in the Washington, D.C. metro area that are making a real difference in the lives of individuals and really in what governments are doing and what industry is doing and what our overall community is doing. So I thank you for the platform. I really appreciate the invitation, and I look forward to having many more conversations.Zach: I look forward to it too, Nigel. Man, look, we definitely consider you a friend of the show. We can't wait to have you back. Now, look, Nigel, I don't know how much of the Living Corporate podcast you've listened to, but every now and then we've got to drop some air horns, okay? So I gotta put 'em in here right... here. [air horns sfx]Nigel: There we go.Zach: I'm saying. I just got to it. And I hope it's not culturally insensitive. I recognize [you/your family are] from Jamaica. I love air horns.Nigel: I love it.Zach: All right, cool. [laughs]Nigel: I love it. [laughs]Zach: Well, all right. Nigel, 'til next time, we'll catch up, man. I appreciate you. Nigel: Thank you very much. Have a great day.Zach: Peace.

Zach welcomes career designer, speaker, career coach and business coach Latesha Byrd of Byrd Career Consulting to the podcast, and they announce a new weekly show called The Link Up with Latesha! She'll be sharing real deal advice on how to level up professionally in your career every Saturday, so don't forget to check back on the weekend!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBRead the Flexin' In My Complexion story!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and look, this is when I typically say "You know how we do," I say something like, "You know what we got going on. So excited to have y'all today," "Ah, ah, ah," "Yearp." I do something, right? But, you know, I'ma keep it a bean with y'all. I'ma have a whole bunch of sound effects. We're gonna have a great time. This is a random Saturday podcast. We don't drop episodes on Saturdays. So we want y'all to have a good time with us, you know what I mean? So we're gonna have a good time. I've got the soundboard, you know, and of course who would I be--that's right, you know it's coming--if I didn't have a special guest? Today we have the one and the only L.B., A.K.A. your favorite coach's favorite coach, A.K.A. I've been on TV a few times, A.K.A. I do this full-time, A.K.A. I have my own podcast setup, I don't really need nobody's help, A.K.A. Ms. Independent, A.K.A. Latesha Byrd.  Latesha: What's up, Zach?Zach: What's up, Latesha? How are you doing today? Welcome to the show. Latesha: I'm doing well.Zach: Oh, my goodness. Well, look, you know, I gave a little quick intro, but for those of us who don't know you, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?Latesha: Yeah. So my name is Latesha Byrd. I am a career designer, speaker, career coach, business coach, but I like to call myself a career designer because what I'm passionate about is helping my clients design lives that will allow them to show up in their best and truest and fullest selves at work and beyond, so--yes. Yes, yes. So I started a company, Byrd Career Consulting. It is a consulting agency focused on professional development resources for professionals that are in the corporate space. So we provide resume writing, LinkedIn writing, interview coaching, salary negotiation, strategy sessions, but most importantly career coaching. So I provide career coaching to professionals of color that helps them to just level up professionally. What I'm passionate about is making sure that everyone is happy at work, that they are fulfilled, but not only that but they're able to, like I said, bring their truest selves--show up as their fullest self to work, get paid, and be able to live the life that not only they want, but the life that they deserve. So I am extremely intentional with helping my clients through self-discovery, career empowerment, and then also personal development. I started my company about four years ago. We work with over 800 professionals in a variety of industries. Some of my clients have landed at some pretty great companies such as LinkedIn, Google, Amazon, Deloitte. Just a few to name, and I've had clients that have even gotten over $60,000 salary increases. So before--yes, cha-ching--so before I started my company I worked in recruiting, and I managed recruiting for a public accounting firm headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I'm at. Shout-out to QC. Zach: Shout-out to QC.Latesha: Yes. And as a recruiter, I manage recruiting for about five offices up and down the East Coast, making sure that the companies had innovative recruiting strategies, that they were out getting top talent. I worked directly with leadership as well on a lot of diversity and inclusion initiatives. And as a recruiter, I realize that there is a huge disconnect--there is a huge disconnect between top talent looking for good for jobs, and also good companies that are having issues that--that they claim they were having issues with finding top talent. We've all heard where companies or recruiters will say they can't find good talent, specifically good diverse talent, right? Which we all know is not true, and so I said, "You know what? Why do I meet so many professionals with great skill sets, with great work experience, that are just dope, and they're having issues with getting connected or getting their foot in the door with these companies? Why are companies complaining about not being able to find good talent?" So I started my company really as a way to bridge the gap between those dope professionals with these companies that were claiming that they had a hard time with finding good talent. So that's pretty much me in a nutshell.Zach: I love that. And, you know, what I'm hearing is you're doing a little bit of everything, right?Latesha: Just a little bit. [laughs]Zach: Just a little bit, you know what I'm saying? And it's interesting, 'cause a lot of us, we think, you know, "I'ma quit this job," and, you know, "I'ma do this," "I'ma do that." You know, "I'ma get what I need to get," without any type of help, and, you know, meanwhile--you're seeing all this in your resume and your online brand, you know, they're looking back at you like [haha sfx], right? Like, you need some help, okay? Like, you need to figure out how you're really gonna get all of this together, and that's where, you know what I'm saying, Latesha--where you come in.Latesha: Yeah, that's right. I meet a lot, a lot of talented people, and when they're telling me about their experience and when I look at their resume I'll just be like, "Hold on, now. Hold on, Holiday." Like, "You're leaving out so much great experience." A lot of times--this is what I've realized, is that we are taught that we should not brag, we shouldn't boast, we shouldn't really talk about what it is that we bring to the table, but when it comes to going after these jobs and getting these coins, you have to make sure that you're really setting yourself up for success and, with that being said, investing that--investing back into yourself, because that's gonna pay off dividends in the future. So you're right. It is important to have some assistance as you are looking to level up professionally, whether it's a career coach, whether it's a resume writer, or whether it's investing your time, you know, and listening to podcasts such as Living Corporate. Shameless plug.Zach: [straight up sfx] You're absolutely right, and, you know, it's a really good point, because a lot of us I think--and we talked about this a few different times over through various guests and topics around the idea that, like, you know, sometimes we think if we get an education, we get an extra degree, then people are gonna look at our resume and go, "Oh, he has XYZ, or she has XYZ in this subject field. We're gonna automatically hire them." That's just not the way it works. Latesha: Not at all.Zach: Right? Meanwhile, we're spending, like, all this time and money and energy getting all of these certifications, but we're not--we're not telling our story well, right? We're not telling our story well. We're upset. We're looking over at our job market like [what more do you want from me sfx], you know? And I-- [both laugh] But yeah, no, you're absolutely right that, like, it's more than a degree, right? And it's more than just having it. You have to figure out a way to present yourself.Latesha: Right, right. And you have to. You have to figure out a way to present yourself and position yourself in a way, whether it is in person or online, and be able to speak to what it is that you bring to the table in a way that will resonate with recruiters, hiring managers, or just your network in general. One thing that I tell my clients all of the time is that people hire people, so if your job search strategy is just about applying to job after job after job, you're not doing enough. You've got to get from behind the computer and really build your network and actually reach out to people. The best way to get a job--well, I won't say the best way. The quickest way, or the most popular way, that positions are filled is first through employee referrals. All day. So if I decide I want to go work at a company like Google, I need to get connected with some people that work at Google, and that might take you not just applying online and praying that, you know, they find your resume in the stack of 300, but actually reaching out to people that work at that company. So when it comes to my coaching, I always, always, always first ask my clients to be able to, like you said, tell your story. Being able to tell your--what I call your career--figure out what your career brand identity is, and how do you communicate that? And then once you figure that out and you get that confidence in who you are and what you bring to the table, that will then allow you to actually be able to reach out to those or build relationships with those or go a little extra mile to get into those positions that you are truly interested in, and that you deserve too.Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] Dropping bombs, yo. Listen, y'all, real Flex bombs are not the ones that are multi-syllabic, you know what I'm saying? Got you looking like Michael Eric Dyson. Real Flex bombs come from real talk. Latesha, thank you so much. Big facts all around for your head top, as it were. Okay, so, you know, you and I have been chopping it up, having a good time, whatever, you know what I'm saying? You're talking about what you got going on, but, like, what--and yes, what you're talking about is all facts of course, Flex bomb worthy, all of that. You know, whatever whatever, [but] it's a Saturday though [and] we're dropping this podcast. Like, what's going on? I feel like you got some news for me. I feel like I got some news for our listeners. Like, let's get to it. What's the deal? Why don't you tell 'em?Latesha: So I will be launching a segment on Living Corporate called The Link Up with Latesha, where [air horns sfx]--aye. Where I'll be sharing some real deal advice to all of the listeners on how to level up professionally for your career.Zach: Yes! Now, look here, what are we talking about on The Link Up with Latesha? Like, what, like--like, what's the format? What's going on?Latesha: So it's gonna be really a variety of things, and this is gonna be coming from a career coach and a former recruiter's perspective on how to get through the job search process, how to find your personal value--I don't want to say how to find it, but how to identify it, how to go after your dreams, how to really think about the life--how to think about the life that it is that you want to live and how to actually go out and get that, but from a recruiter's perspective, I'm gonna be sharing a lot of things that I've seen job seekers do wrong, not just from applying to interviewing to negotiating salary, but also for new employees. When you're starting your career, how do you show up to become a high performer? But I'm gonna be bringing, you know, kind of my own style to it. I'm very, very direct. I'm real all day long. I don't know how to sugarcoat, so I'm just gonna give it to you straight.Zach: I love it. So look here, this is what Latesha is really saying. Latesha's got the inside scoop. She knows what she's talking about. She knows what these businesses want, and also as a consultant she knows what these businesses need to be doing, so you're getting the best of both worlds, you know what I'm saying? She's gonna help you take your brand from [who? sfx] to [Kawhi "what it do baby?" sfx], you feel me? Like, she's gonna take you from, you know, one side to the other. Latesha: Right.Zach: And I love that. I'm so thankful to have you on the show, have you a part of our team, have you a part of this--have you a part of this platform, and, you know, y'all need to make sure y'all pay attention on Saturdays. Every Saturday, the crack of dawn, it's gonna be the show. It's gonna be Latesha. Y'all are gonna be checking her out, okay? So every Saturday be sure to check out--Latesha: I said every Saturday. And Zach, can I just share, like, some of the topics I'm gonna be talking about?Zach: Oh, absolutely. Do your thing.Latesha: Yes, yes, yes. So just a few things I want to talk about is "That's Not My Job, how to set boundaries at work, how to love your job when you actually hate it, how to play the playing field--like, why you should be looking for a job even if you're happy, how to keep your stamina up while job searching, [and] how one of my clients actually got a new job in three months, and she only applied to 12 jobs. So these are some of the things that I want to talk about. What to do if a recruiter ghosts you, 'cause that's a common thing, right? Ghosting is real, not just in the dating life but also in the professional life.Zach: That's facts.Latesha: And what to do if your company isn't taking your desire for growth seriously. Like, I had a friend that said she had a meeting with her boss and basically asked "What does my future look like here at this company?" And the boss said, "Oh, just keep doing the same thing." Needless to say, she is no longer with that company, but, you know, this is gonna be about career empowerment, career growth. Like I said, really leveling up self-discovery, just finding who you are, being true in that, going after what it is that you truly deserve. So that's, you know, a little bit about what I will be talking about on The Link Up.Zach: All right, y'all. Y'all heard it here first. We got a new show. Just to recap, we got a new show hosted by Latesha Byrd, career coach, former recruiter and D&I extraordinaire, okay? Resume writer, branding/personal branding extraordinaire. That's right.Latesha: All the things.Zach: You know what I'm saying? All the things. She's flexing in her complexion and on y'all and on me.Latesha: Ooh, I like that. Flexing in my complexion. Did you just make that up?Zach: No, no, we got--that's a whole business. You know, you got the black girl--in fact, y'all, look in the show notes. We're gonna have the story about the woman--the young girl rather, excuse me--who made a whole fashion company with the phrase "flexing in my complexion." It's very cute, very great, and empowering to our mocha sisters out there and to all of our black and brown women out there. Anyway, thank y'all for listening to the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you check us out. The only way you're gonna be able to check out the Living Corporate podcast--excuse me, the only way you're gonna be able to check out The Link Up with Latesha is on the Living Corporate podcast, so make sure you follow us on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, on Instagram @LivingCorporate, and really just anywhere that podcasts are--if you just Google Living Corporate, you know what I'm saying, we're popping up, okay? We out here. We out here, okay? We in that--Latesha: We outchea.Zach: We in that--we outchea. We in that SEO like [Cardi "blat blat blat brrr" sfx], okay? We letting everybody--we hitting everybody, okay? We're on every podcasting platform.Latesha: Errbody.Zach: Errbody, okay? And yeah. So look, we got the domains, okay? So you go online, livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net, livingcorporate.tv, okay? Livingcorporate.--we've just got all the livingcorporates except livingcorporate.com, 'cause Australia just--they're not letting it go. Australia, we love y'all. One day we're gonna have enough flex to actually come and get that domain. One day. I don't know, maybe.Latesha: No, no, no. Like, legit going to Australia.Zach: But go to there though? Yes, we're gonna go to Australia.Latesha: We're gonna pull up.Zach: We're gonna pull up, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, so we out here is my point. Latesha out here. You know, she's--she and I got this new thing going on, so I'm trying to give her something. She's giving me something. We're kind of doing, like, this give and go thing. It's really fun, even at the end of the show. So what else we got going on? Oh, yeah. Make sure--Latesha: [inaudible] shout-outs.Zach: Oh, yeah, we do got shout-outs! That's right. Okay, so--'cause I'm trying to do this new thing, right? Like, every now and then. Like, not every episode, but I just want to give a shout-out to those people that listen to the show and, you know, people being in the Living Corporate DMs talking about, "Keep doing what you're doing." People hit us up on LinkedIn. People talking about, "You know, we just love what you got going on." So shout-out to the engineers and the accountants and all the STEM folks. Shout-outs to my people out in the DMV. Shout-out to our top five demographics. So we're seeing you New York, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta, you know what I'm saying? Dallas. We appreciate y'all, you know? Shout-out to the West Coast. You know, we're not really popping out there like we want to so, you know, somebody out there come on--like, the tech people, y'all show us some love, man. You know, we be out here. We be making moves, you know what I'm saying? We're not--you know, I'm not drinking kombucha every day. It's not--you know, it kind of unsettles my stomach, but I like it, you know? So, like, give us some love.Latesha: It's good.Zach: It's delicious actually. It's just--it just doesn't sit well with me. Anyway, shout-out to all of our hustlers and entrepreneurs. Shout-out to our creatives, you know what I mean? Shout-out to my college students. Shout-out to the Gen Z'ers, you know what I mean? Latesha: [?].Zach: Uh-huh. Shout-out to the Buckys, you know what I'm saying? The White Wolves. The allies, okay? For those who don't know Marvel, like, you know what I'm saying, like, the folks out there who are not as melanin-rich as some of us but still care and empathize, you know what I'm saying, with the black and brown people and [?].Latesha: We love our allies.Zach: We love our allies, you know what I'm saying? Where would we be without allies, okay? We're a minority. We need people. We need help, okay? We need help. Help me, you know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta--we need it, so shout-out to y'all. Shout-out to, you know what I'm saying, the older white people, you know, who listen to the show, you know, trying to figure out just what's going on. Maybe they got a little nervous, they wanted to check it out. Shout-out to my coworkers. If y'all are listening to this right now, shout-out to y'all. I appreciate y'all. And shout-out to the people that give us 5 stars, you know? Shout-out to the educators. Who else am I missing? Who am I missing, Latesha?Latesha: I think you said entrepreneurs, but side hustlers. Like, those that have a 9-to-5 and a 5-to-9. We see you. I was there. I know how it is. And then--so shout-out to them.Zach: Yeah, shout-out to y'all, man, and shout-out--you know, just shout-out to all the listeners. We appreciate y'all, excited for y'all to venture with us on this new leg of our journey, and we'll catch y'all next time. Until next time, this has been Zach.Latesha: And Latesha.Zach: And you've been listening to Living Corporate, and make sure y'all come back and check us out on--now we've got--my goodness, we've got episodes on Tuesdays, we've got episodes on Fridays (editor's note: Thursdays), and now we're gonna have episodes on Saturdays because we've got the new show, The Link Up with Latesha. Aye. Catch y'all next time. Peace.

On the twenty-fifth installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield suggests keeping an underutilized gem - a career journal. It can be an effective tool if you struggle to update your resume/LinkedIn profile or feel like you have nothing to write when you have to do your self-assessment for your performance reviews.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: Hey, Living Corporate fam. This is Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week we're gonna talk about an underutilized gem - a career journal. Do you struggle to update your resume or LinkedIn profile? Have you thought about negotiating your salary but wasn't sure how you would make the case? Do you ever feel like you have nothing to write when you have to do your self-assessment for your performance reviews? Well, if you answered yes to any of those questions, you are not alone. In working with clients, one of the things I've realized is that it's incredibly difficult for us to remember our accomplishments we've had throughout our career. During my intake calls, quite a few of my clients struggle because they've been in their jobs so long that the wins start to blend in with the day-to-day. One way to combat that is to keep a career journal. Each time you have a win, you write it in there. When you get pulled into projects, you write those in there and what your role was. If you're measured against any metrics or receive stats based on your performance, write them in there too. This journal can be physical or virtual, whatever works for you. You just want to make sure that you're documenting wins, both big and small, projects you've worked on, departments you've worked with, any goals you've achieved, and any other thing you think is valuable. If the journal is physical I would suggest some type of bound notebook, and if it's virtual I would suggest keeping everything in the same file. This ensures that you're keeping the information in one place for easy reference. Think about how all of that information will come in handy in situations where you need to sell yourself, whether that be your performance review, negotiating your salary, or even just updating your LinkedIn profile and resume. Having a career journal will make it that much easier to be your own biggest advocate in your career. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Nap Bar founder Khaliah Guillory to discuss the concept of being well-rested at work. They also talk about the genesis of the Nap Bar and the workforce of the future. Additionally, Khaliah shares a few interesting statistics relating to the topic.Check out the Nap Bar! Connect with them on their socials here: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, FacebookConnect with Khaliah on a variety of platforms! LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, FacebookRead the WSJ article mentioned on the show!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, check it out. Y'all know how we do, okay? We have real talk in a corporate world. We try to center the experiences of black and brown voices and identities in the workplace, and we do that by talking about evergreen topics, but we just want to make sure that we're talking about them from a non-white point of view. So that's where you got me, you got Ade, and of course you have our guests, and who would we be if we didn't have a great guest today like we always do? Khaliah Guillory. Khaliah, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Khaliah: Yo. What's going on, Zach? Thank you so much for having me on. I'm absolutely honored to be here with the Living Corporate crew. Thank you for the invite.Zach: Oh, no, no, no. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now, look, for those of us who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Khaliah: Sure. So I am a lover of humanity. Love me some people. I love to connect with people. I love '80s music. I have it on rotation, in the catalog, on a regular basis. I am absolutely obsessed with sunglasses, watches, and socks. If I could get away with just wearing that all day, especially in Houston in the middle of summer, I would. Zach: Wait a minute. Hold up now. [sound effect]Khaliah: Oh, we're gonna have so much fun. And I--you know, that's what I do, and I always like to lead with who I am from a personality standpoint. And the meaning of my name means Chosen One, because that ties into what I do. I think sometimes and often times we get caught up into what we do and we think that's who we are, but if we don't lead with who we are, then how can we really be able to connect the dots to understand what we do? So, like, I mentioned my name is Khaliah Oni Guillory, and that means "The Chosen One," and I have chosen to transition from a C-level executive position at a Fortune 500 company as of November 18th of 2018 to really solve the 411 billion--yeah, I said a b--billion dollar U.S. economic loss that the U.S. suffered due to sleep deprivation. Zach, just guess how many days that was. If you equated--I know you've got a consultant brain, so if you can quantify how many days--working days that is--how many would you guess it was?Zach: You said 400 billion?Khaliah: Uh-huh, with a b.Zach: Hours?Khaliah: Days.Zach: Days.Khaliah: How many days?Zach: I don't know. Like, maybe 7--500. 700. 700's my final answer.Khaliah: Try 1.2 million. 1.2 million days Americans called off because they were tired and they were sleep deprivedZach: Now, look here, y'all, I don't want y'all judging me for that terrible math, okay? I'm a change management consultant. I have Excel and other tools to help do the math for me, and--Khaliah: You've gotta use your tools. You've gotta use your tools.Zach: You know, 'cause you asked me on the spot. I kind of halfway understood the question. I'm excited. You know, I've got all the energy around me. Y'all don't be judging me. Sound Man, keep this in. Don't this edit either. I want y'all to see me in my--you know what I'm saying, my vulnerability, okay?Khaliah: Listen, that's what it's about, man. That's what it's about, but look, you jumped out there. You were close.Zach: I was not at all close. I said 700, and I didn't understand the question. You looking at me talking about [sound effect]. I'm like--you said 1.3 milly.Khaliah: 1.2. Zach: Oh, my goodness. And see, I'm wrong again. But anyway--Khaliah: It was probably 700 in a small town like Sugarland. Boom. See? See how we just changed the narrative? You've just gotta change that narrative.Zach: Okay. So okay, look, all the jokes aside, give us the stat again. Give us the stat again.Khaliah: $411 billion is the total amount the U.S. suffered due to sleep deprivation for economic loss. So from an economic loss, the U.S. lost $411 billion due to sleep deprivation, and that equated to 1.2 million working days that Americans called off because they were tired. Zach: Wow.Khaliah: So we can peel the onion back a little bit more. I'm doing the air quotes. Remember when it was "on trend" to take mental health days? And it probably still is. I was one of those people that took--I said, "Man, this is smart. Once a month [?], and it's a mental health day, and I'ma do whatever I want to do, and basically what that meant is that I slept all day because I was exhausted. I was working 80 hours a week, and that was the one day of the month that I gave myself permission to actually rest, which is the craziest thing in the world because we should be able to rest every single day.Zach: Absolutely. And so--so then let's talk about that. So that's your passion, right, and I think it's a really--just a really good segue into our topic for the day, right? Our topic is wellness, and specifically this time the topic is around the concept of being well-rested. And considering your passion and the research that you've done around the lack of restfulness that we have in American culture, you know, what have you been doing with that passion? I know you haven't just been crunching numbers. Like, what have you done? Like, what's the--what's been the output of you doing this research? And, like, what are you--you talked about the fact that you're passionate about solving this problem. What are you doing to solve it?Khaliah: Yeah, man. So it's this thing called Nap Bar. It's the first white-glove napping experience in Texas that offers on-site and in-suite napping services for communities that we serve. And so this really came about April of last year. The wife and I were both--she's still in corporate, but I was in corporate at the time, and we both had and still have side hustles. I changed my side hustle to my main hustle. She still has a side hustle, but if we can, we would carpool into the city, and this particular day we had about an hour and a half to kill between our meetings, and I looked at her and I was like, "Man, this is my nap time," because I'm an avid napper. I nap in my car on a regular basis, and my nap was kind of--it was gonna be a little strange. So she looked at me and was like, "Why don't you Google "naps in Houston?" It's Houston. There's got to be a place where you can pop in and take a nap." I was like, "You know what? You're right. That's dope. I'm sure there's a place." A two-minute-later search? Zero. Zilch. Nada. And I looked at her, like, in disbelief, like, "How is it this is the fourth-largest country in the world, and we're the most innovative--one of the most innovative cities--" I said countries. "The fourth-largest city in the country, and we're one of the most innovative cities, hence we've got this Innovation Corridor that's being curated, but yeah, we don't have a place for people to rest? Wow." And she looked at me and was like, "Well, why don't you create it?" And I was like, "Yeah, okay." So the next day I go to Facebook, 'cause that's what you do. You go to Facebook and you ask your friends. I created a poll and I was like, "Yo, how many people out there napping during the day? Like, in your car or in an unused conference room or, heck, in, like, the--just wherever you can find some peace and quiet," and 99% of my friends, who are a hodgepodge of professionals, entrepreneurs, stay-at-home parents, these cats admitted to napping at work.Zach: Oh, yeah. At work?Khaliah: At work, and I was like, "Boy, they're savages." The savagery is real. So then I was like, "Okay, that's just my scope," right? "That's my lens." So then I started doing more research, and I tell you, Zach, I just kept going and going and going, and I found [?] sleep. There's a sleep foundation that does a ton of research of sleep, and 52% of Americans surveyed--like, 10,000 cats were surveyed last year, and they admitted--52% of them admitted to napping at work. Now, imagine how many people who were napping, but they just was like--Zach: Oh, yeah. You know they're lying.Khaliah: "Yeah, I'm not admitting this. They're gonna find out and they're gonna come get me and fire me." Like, imagine. So then I just continued to do my research, and then I stumbled upon--the CDC had a stat out there talking about, you know, driving drowsy is equivalent to driving under the influence. So I just kept going and going and going. I was like, "Okay, clearly I'm not just solving a problem. I'm solving the root of a problem with Nap Bar."Zach: You are, and you know what? You know, it's wild because, like you said, there's a stigma against, like, even talking about the fact that you might be sleepy, right? You know, you're over here thinking like--you know what I'm saying? You don't want them--you know, you turn around, [and] you slip out in a moment of weakness that you--you know, you might take a nap from time to time, and then you've got the [sound effect]. You know, they're coming for you. And it's just--it's wild though, because I also think really honestly--like, shout-out to you, because really believe it or not--and I'm sure you already know this--like, you're actually pushing against, like, the capitalistic, like, culture and, like, foundation that we work on, because part of just this work-centric culture that we have is just pushing your body until you break, right? Like--Khaliah: Yeah. And you know what's odd about that? Like, this is Living Corporate, so I'm sure people will get this line I'm about to say, but it combats everything--the fabric of people's culture, corporations' culture that they say that they do, and I'll give you an example. Corporate social responsibilities. How many--if you Google that word, and you Google--or you do a Ctrl+F and find how many times they put "people-centric approach" and how their employees mean the world to them, but if they really adopted a people-centric approach, well, then why are people being criticized for taking PTO? And why are people getting down to the last week of the year and they have a whole month of vacation that's unused and they're gonna end up losing it because they can't roll over but 10 days to the next year? Like, if we really, truly took a step back in our culture as a whole, as a society, then why aren't we pushing the envelope back on that? And that's exactly what I'm out to do. I'm out to be that little voice that's gonna be loud and obnoxious and ferocious so that we can pivot and transition into a true, true-true-true holistic approach to the meaning of living. There shouldn't be a reason why I don't enjoy going into work, and there shouldn't be a reason why studies show that the first four hours of Mondays are the most unproductive, because people have the Sunday blues. They think about what they have to do on Monday and then they check out, [then?] they end up staying out too much late on Sunday Funday.Zach: There was an article that just released on The Wall Street Journal about that that said, like, Sundays are the new Mondays, right? It's, like, basically the anxiety of--we'll make sure to put that in the show notes too, but, like, the anxiety of your work week, it, like, bleeds over into your Sunday to the point where you can't even enjoy Sunday anymore. And I'll just be transparent that, like, typically for me Sundays are like--are really like a mini-work day, 'cause I'm prepping for the week, right?Khaliah: Yeah, right, and that shouldn't be the case. You should be able to--you should be able to prep for your work week while you're at work. And I get it, we gotta get ahead and we have to do what we need to do, but it would be so much sweeter if you were prepping on a Sunday for your work week but if you knew on Monday you would be able to get that time back because your employee, or your employer I should say, included in your employees benefit package a health and wellness that includes a nap every single day for 26 minutes, and it's up to you to decide if you want it or not.Zach: Straight up. You're absolutely right, and it's so funny, right? Because, you know, companies are--companies right now, like, if you notice, like, in the conversation of work-life balance--and this has been--like, this discussion has been happening for, I don't know, like, the past six or seven years, but it's, like, transitioning from work-life balance to, like, work-life blend or work-life optimization or work-life harmony, and, like, really what they're trying to do is, like, just have your life be more and more just about work, right? Like, you're having a good time, but you're working. Like, "Hey, we want you to have a good time as you--you know, as you work." [both laugh] You know, "We want you to take care of your family and, you know, shoot, go on vacation, you know? [?]"Khaliah: Yeah, but, like--but even think about that too, Zach. Like, I remember going on vacation, and going on vacation for a week was, like, death the next week when you got back to work because you had--you're in email jail. You can't even send any emails because your mailbox is full, and then you don't even want to consider checking your voicemail because you're already getting those stomach-aches thinking about all that you are so behind on. Now you're regretting taking your vacation, which you earned. Like, we've got to reposition and reverse engineer our thought process around how we work. Like, there's a thing called intentional work, and there's some innovative companies that are doing it just right now. You know, you've got the Googles of the world that have napping pods. You've got Ariana Huffington, who nearly died because she passed out and hit her--like, passed out and hit her head on her desk due to sleep deprivation. So you have these advocates, but then we're still so far behind the 8-ball on how do we really truly pivot. And then, you know, it's funny because I had a call, a conference call, with a Fortune 5 company before this call, and I was telling them like, "Hey, we've got to get Nap Bar on site." I've got this calculation I walked them through, and it showed that annualized nationwide, based on 3,300 employees, they are losing $16.5 million of unproductive loss of work per employee. So that's the total roll-up per employee. That's how I got that number. And they're sitting here saying, "Well, I don't know how we can afford to get the nap [zone?]." I'm like, "Did you not just hear me?"Zach: Nah, you can't afford not to have these nap [zones?]. And wait a minute. And you said--hold on, now, 'cause you're not gonna just slide past that. You said you were on a phone call before this interview with a Fortune 500 company?Khaliah: I mean, listen, I'm out here taking my shots, man. I'm out here taking my shots.Zach: I see you.Khaliah: I'm out here taking my shots. 'Cause, you know, you get this. It's just--it's just basic math. I just need one person to say yes, you know, and then my demand is gonna outpace my supply, and then I can add another zero, and then another zero, and then another zero.Zach: I'm saying. Listen, I'm right there with you, okay? You're preaching to the choir. I just wanted to make sure that the people heard what you said, 'cause I heard you, okay? [both laugh] Okay, okay, okay. So check this out. We've been talking around this a bit, right, but, like, workplace pressure, like, it's real for everybody, and it's even more real for people in America and of course abroad who are in an ethnic minority and may be battling impostor syndrome, even harder than those who feel the need to prove themselves. And to be clear, like, I'm them. I'm people. But the reality is if you're not getting rest, you won't be good to anybody. So even if--so let's just say this, right? So, like, even if taking a nap is not immediately possible for some of the folks who are listening to this podcast episode right now, what advice would you give to professionals of color to practice restfulness in those 10- or 11-hour work days?Khaliah: You know, I think the biggest piece is we have to be the change that we want to see in the workplace. So it's vocalizing, being an advocate for rest in the workplace. There is a ton of research. People can hit me up. They can email me. I will gladly send over what I've collected. I'm in the middle of a business case with another company here in Houston that's gonna really result some telling data. It's almost gonna slap people in the face if they say "No, we don't want to give our people naps at work." I mean, this business case is gonna be--it's constructed in such a way to where it's gonna be hard for people to say no, but I would say how I got to this business case and a collaboration with this particular organization is because an employee, who had only been there for 3 months, a minority man--he was in his 1-on-1 with his manager and his manager said, "Hey, how has the past three months going?" And he said, "Man, it's been quite an adjustment, coming from college to the corporate world, and I'm working 60, 70 hours a week, and, you know, it's been quite an adjustment. I wish there was a time I could just, you know, take a nap." And his manager said--well, I'll say he wasn't a manager, because this was a leader comment. You know, managers manage people. Leaders lead. And this leader said to him--after he said that he said, "Hm. Well, why don't we discuss that on your next 1-on-1? Do some research, and let's talk about it next week." And so he did, and I had a meeting with him two days ago. What's today. Today's Tuesday? I had a meeting with him yesterday to button up the business case and the pilot. So I think the biggest advice I could give is just real life experience that I just experienced just as early as yesterday is we have to be vocal about what we want. And of course we have to be professional in the way that we deliver it, and I always--when I worked in corporate I always prided myself--when I presented a problem, it's to have the solution in my back pocket. So when my leader said, "Hey, okay, well, how are you gonna solve it? Boom, here it is, and here's all the research," right? And, you know, that's why I can say I have 10,000+ hours of research. Malcolm Gladwell says if you--if you want to call yourself a subject matter expert, you have to have at minimum 10,000 hours of research in your respective field. So when I said--as I mentioned, like, I can rattle off stats from here between here and Tokyo, where they do have napping pods, but I don't have to because I think we are as a society, when people hear the word "rest" and "nap at work" they'd initially be like, "Oh, my God. That would be awesome," but then they'd immediately think, "Well, is that gonna hold me back? Am I not gonna get up for a promotion because I'm taking a nap at work?" No. That's a shift that me and my team will come in, because it's more than just a nap. It's an experience. But on the flip side of it, we educate on why--what are the indicators for sleep deprivation. So going back to your original question, Zach, we just have to be more vocal about what we want. We need to present a--not just a problem, but also a solution, and not be afraid to get creative with it.Zach: Okay. Now, listen here, y'all. Y'all heard it straight here from Khaliah, A.K.A. KG Speaks, A.K.A. [?], A.K.A. Your Favorite Sock Wearer, okay? I'm gonna give you that Flex bomb right here. You know what I'm saying? Okay, no, you're absolutely right. In that story though--it's interesting. So you said a black man. Did he have a--was the boss a white dude? Khaliah: I don't know the ethnicity of the leader, but no, the employee, he wasn't black. He was a minority. He was an Asian-Pacific Islander. Zach: Yo. Shout-out to the--man, listen here, shout-out to the Asian-Pacific Islander, the person of color raising his voice, and just to keep a bean with you, I need to go ahead and have that leader on this--on Living Corporate too, 'cause I'm kind of shocked that he turned around and said, "Well, do some research," 'cause, I mean, that's not--I don't feel like that's a common experience. That's dope that he did that, and I absolutely believe that we should be speaking up and using your voice. I think that's an incredible story.Khaliah: We need more of that, and that's why I shared it, because we need more of that on both sides of the table. We need more of that from a leadership standpoint and more of that empowerment from an employee standpoint, because--you're right, and not only that, he sent me an email--the employee said, "Hey, it's a go, and my actual--my leader wants to come and check it out too," and I was like, "Please. Let's go. Tell me when and where. Tell me what time." I know where, just tell me when. [laughs]Zach: Boy, 'cause let me tell you--let me tell you just my experience. Khaliah, let me walk up in somewhere and tell my often-times-not-minority boss that I want to take a nap at work. Boy, they'd look at me like [sfx]. It's like, "What?"Khaliah: You are killing it with these sound effects. Like, I want to come over and see, like, what software you're using, 'cause you are killing it. Zach: Man, I be looking--I'm serious though. You just looking at them like [sfx], you know what I'm saying? Khaliah: But you know what's interesting too is that, you know, from a leader standpoint, for the leaders who are listening on the phone and who can even--you know, who can low-key share this with the leaders who perhaps might need to hear this, but here's a stat that perhaps will change people's minds. Millennials will be occupying, by 2025, 75% of the workplace. 75% of the workplace in five years and some change will be occupied by millennials. And what do we know about millennials? Well, out of the survey that I saw, 53% of them stated that they value health and wellness above work, spirituality, and even their friendships. Health and wellness #1 over work, spirituality, and their friends. So if I'm an executive at a corporation, and I know in the next five and a half years that folks I have on my bench right now, that I'm grooming, they don't--they value work, but it's not more than their health and wellness. I need to put in place Nap Bar today so that when they're in the C-Suite in five years we're already advanced into VR. We've got virtual reality going in Nap Bar. I mean, there's so many different things that companies can do today to set them up to win in 2025 when 75% of their workforce will be millennials.Zach: No, you're absolutely right, and, you know--and that's the thing--so as you know, I'm a consultant, and one of the things I've really been passionate about at my job is the workforce of the future, and we're talking about, like, dealing with the workforce of the future. First of all, the workforce of the future is happening--is today, but the idea of the fact that, like, folks will leave--this generation of people, and not even thinking about Gen Z's gonna be doing. I don't know what they--Khaliah: Listen...Zach: Listen. Ayo. My siblings in Gen Z. I be looking at them like I don't know--I'm scared. I'm scared of y'all. Like, y'all--ooh. But, you know, we will leave--Khaliah: They're reckless, but they're courageous with it.Zach: Oh, no. I love it. No, it's not a knock. It's just, like, a "Wow." Like, I'm really--I'm not prepared. [both laugh] But, like, you know, millennials though--and I would venture to say it's gonna be even more so with Gen Z--like, we will quit a job, you know what I'm saying?Khaliah: In a heartbeat. In a heartbeat.Zach: They'd be like, "Hey, Bobby, if you don't stop taking these naps, we're gonna have to let you go." He'd turn around talking about some [sfx]. You know?Khaliah: Yeah, you know why? Because they were already researching on their phone the companies that are innovative and progressive that probably already have nap pods. Zach: Listen, they're gonna be pulling up just like that Indeed commercial that just dropped with that white lady. She got passed over for that job, and--I don't know if you've seen it yet. It's wild. It's crazy. But anyway, she gets passed over for the job, and, you know, everybody's clapping. It's clear that she got passed over for a job. She's over here smirking at her phone. Indeed app already talking about "Interview secured." I said, "Ooh." And I oop. [sfx]Khaliah: That's funny. Now that's funny.Zach: It's super funny, but you're right. You know, it's going to be a critical--you know, it's gonna be a pillar of human capital management, of talent management, this wellness piece, and it can't just be "Hey, you know, you can take time off, but you've got to come work--" No, like, it needs to be explicit, intentional, purposed policies that reinforce true wellness.Khaliah: Totally.Zach: Okay. Now, look, this has been a dope conversation, and you know you've already been a friend of the show, and I didn't even--you know, I didn't even give you your air horns at the top for the dope piece that you wrote back in Season 1 about coming out of the proverbial closet. Man, shout-out to you. [sfx]Khaliah: Aye. [imitating sfx]Zach: You know what I'm saying? Like, we didn't even give you your props at the top. So, you know, again, you're a friend of the show. You're appreciated here. Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Khaliah: Man, shout-out to the tribe, the folks who show up, the folks who--and here's the thing. People show up. They don't have to show up, so when they do we have to ooze with gratitude for that. So I'm absolutely oozing with gratitude for my tribe for showing up, and not just for showing up, but for also holding me accountable for the likes, for the shares, for the--just the "atta girl"s, I mean, those things matter when you literally jump off the cliff and you have no idea how to open your parachute, but you can trust that your tribe, your network, will catch you before you fall. So shout-out to all of the folks who have ever liked, commented, shared, sent me an encouraging DM. I appreciate you so much, and I'm sending that vibe and that love right back out to you. And for those of you who are sitting on a billion-dollar idea that's gonna solve a trillion-dollar problem, I say "Go." Just go. You're not gonna have it all figured out, but you'll be able to figure it out along the way. And assemble yourself an advisory board team yesterday, because that's gonna be the people who will be in the trenches with you, that will roll up their sleeves with you and fight 'til the end to make sure that--that they believe in not just you, but in your vision.Zach: Come on, now. Khaliah: Yeah, man. That's the motto. That's the motto, man.Zach: I don't even have anything. I just got finger snaps, you know?Khaliah: That's the motto. Like, my legit motto is "Why duplicate mediocrity when we can borrow genius?" So why not surround yourself with genius all around who have access to the things you don't have access to or who have embarked on a journey that you're looking to embark on. Hey, it's the--it's the clear definition of working smarter and not harder.Zach: No, absolutely. Now, of course we're gonna have all of your information in the show notes, but why don't you go ahead and let us know where we can find you, where we can connect with you, where we can learn more about you?Khaliah: Bet. So for Nap Bar-specific, go to www.napbarnow.com. There you can also follow us on Twitter @NapBarNow, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook we're at NapBarHou, and for anything and all things KOG Speaks, which I am a certified diverse speaker, and I speak on diversity and inclusion, performance, leadership, change management. You can catch all of my work there at www.KOGpassion.com, and then my handles on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook is KOGSpeaks. Zach: Come on, now. Now, look, this has been great, and that does it for us, y'all. So thank y'all for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. Now, please say the dash. Now, look, Khaliah, it's wild because, you know, we own actually all of the Living Corporate variations. So, like, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.net. We've even got, like, livingcorporate.org. We don't have livingcorporate.com 'cause Australia still has livingcorporate.com. Khaliah: They ain't letting it go. You're not gonna negotiate the 5,000--Zach: I don't know how brolic the brand would need to be for us to walk up to a continent and be like, "Ayo, come off that domain." I don't know, but maybe one day. That's a go. I feel like the day that we can--we can Deebo Australia for our domain, that's the day--Khaliah: That's when you've arrived.Zach: That's when you've arrived.Khaliah: That's the day you've arrived.Zach: Right, I'm saying. Okay, okay. So look, if you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com, or you can just DM us on anything, you know what I'm saying? Our DMs are wide open. Like, we're just trying to talk to you, you know what I'm saying? Now, look, this has been Zach, and you have been talking with Khaliah Guillory, okay? Founder and CEO of the Nap Bar. Make sure you check out all of her information. It's gonna be all in the show notes. Do not forget. Listen, I'm talking to y'all right now. Sound Man, stop the music. Listen. I don't want y'all to listen to this and, like, be like, "Oh, okay, here goes Zach with the sign-off again," 'cause see, y'all see I'm flipping it up. This is not, like, an insert. I'm talking live right now, okay? I want y'all to stop, look in the show notes, okay, and click it. I ain't trying to be aggressive with y'all, okay? I'm not trying to do nothing extra, okay? I'm not dangerous, I promise. I'm just telling you, you know what I'm saying, get the information. Make sure you learn about the Nap Bar, especially if you're in Houston, and get yourself some rest. Am I tripping, Khaliah?Khaliah: Nah, not at all, bro. Not at all.Zach: All right. All right, well, dope. Well, look here. Until next time, talk to y'all soon. Love y'all. Peace.Khaliah: Peace.

On the twenty-fourth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield (@LayfieldResume) talks about networking in a place where the importance of networking is often underestimated. He also shares a few upsides to networking throughout your company. Career success sits at the intersection of personal and organizational goals, so take the time to cultivate relationships throughout your organization to figure out where your goals align!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: Hey, Living Corporate fam. It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, let's talk about networking, but in a place where the importance of networking is often underestimated. When we hear "networking," it usually brings up thoughts of going to events to meet people, but networking happens in many spaces, and one place we tend to neglect is the workplace. There's so many upsides to connecting throughout your company, so let's discuss a few. By developing more relationships, you inevitably discover more highly-visible projects throughout the organization. This allows you to strategize on how you can get involved, and you can begin to volunteer for some of the special projects that align with your goals. Second, if you maintain a diverse network throughout the company, you'll more than likely get the scoop on open positions and departments you may want to work in, not to mention you may possibly get a referral from someone in your network who's on the team. Next, the more you connect, the more opportunity you have to find a mentor or a sponsor. While a mentor helps you navigate your career, a sponsor uses their agency in the company to advocate for your career progression. If you can land someone who's willing to be a sponsor for you, be sure to nurture that relationship as they can help open doors within your organization and potentially within others. Finally, if you're someone who gets anxious about networking, your job can be a great place to start getting comfortable. Think about it. You're already more familiar with the topics that may come up, and you have to be there for at least eight hours anyway. Career success sits at the intersection of personal and organizational goals, so take the time to cultivate relationships throughout your organization to figure out where your goals align. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Guide co-founder Mike Yates to discuss the future of learning. Mike shares what he thinks are the top three things that are changing within the world of learning. He also lists a few ways he thinks organizations will need to adjust for future workforces.Connect with Guide! We've got their website and socials: Twitter, IG, FacebookTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate. And today we're talking about the workforce of the future, okay? So you've heard some conversations that we've had with Tim Salau a few times about the future of work, and, you know, it's just a really prominent topic because the workforce is changing, and the dynamics and the cultural makeup--not just from an ethnic perspective or sexual orientation, but from a generational perspective--is shifting, so we're really excited to talk about the future of learning with Mike Yates. Mike taught in a traditional school setting for five years before entering his current role, where he designs curriculum, plans projects, and motivates students to break all of the rules. His passion is in change and finding the next set of large innovations to the classroom through the use of adaptive learning technology and artificial intelligence. The world is rapidly changing and innovating, and it is his belief that schools must follow that trend. So with that being said, Mike, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?Mike: Thank you so much. I'm really good. I'm excited to be here. I'm actually a pretty--I'm a regular listener, so I'm excited to be on this podcast.Zach: Stop playing. You listen to Living Corporate?Mike: Yeah. I'm a listener. I listen to it through Apple Podcasts, and I love the--I love the podcast. I actually saw stuff about Living Corporate via LinkedIn or Twitter. I cannot remember where I saw it first.Zach: Okay.Mike: Yeah, yeah, but I started listening a while ago. So, like, I've recently listened to the one--like, Ramadan at Work.Zach: Whaaat? Stop playing.Mike: Yeah, yeah. Respectability Politics, yeah.Zach: That's awesome. Okay, well, hey. First of all, we're already--we're honored, but definitely certainly flattered and happy about the fact that you enjoy the show. So look, we gave a little bit of an intro for you from the top. For those of us who don't know you, what would you mind telling us about yourself?Mike: Yeah, yeah. So one of the things--like, I just saw this meme on the internet that said, like, "I wish I loved somebody the way that people from Houston love being from Houston," and I'm one of the people that makes that true. I love being from Houston. That's where I'm from. So, you know, NBA Finals time I'm a little hurt, 'cause I thought the Rockets should have played better, but--Zach: Yeah, man. It was tough, right?Mike: Yeah, yeah. But I'm from Houston. I'm from a family of educators. My mom is a teacher. I basically grew up in school. I grew up in the classroom. I am married. I have four amazing children, an amazing wife.Zach: Oh, man. Congratulations to that.Mike: Thank you, yeah, yeah. Our house is nuts.Zach: I'll bet.Mike: Yeah. [laughs] It is. But that's one of my favorite parts about my life, the grind that I have for them. And so my passion is education. I have tried to avoid the career field for as long as I could, because when growing up I thought to myself "Oh, you know, educators don't make any money," but the gravitational pull of education was too strong for me. I became really curious about it after I graduated from college and I got into planning education programs for the United Way in-between Austin and San Antonio. Once I started doing that, I entered the classroom as a teacher and fell in love with the field. I'm also an educator that is convinced that everybody is lying when they tell you that you can't make money in education, things like that. "You can't be happy in education." "You can't have work-life balance in education." I am seeking to create trends within education that show you that all of those things are possible.Zach: Man, that's incredible. And, you know, I really respect--first of all, you know, there's articles--I feel like you see articles every other month about the importance of even having just black male teachers in the classroom, so shout-out to you, shout-out to educators. Shout-out to my wife who's an educator, as well as my--Mike: Your wife?Zach: Yeah, man. My wife is in education. She's been teaching for some years, and then my mother is a principal of an elementary school. She's been in education for 32 years.Mike: Wow, that's great. That's phenomenal.Zach: Yeah, man. And then, you know, my in-laws, they come from a--there's a deep family of educators there as well. So yeah, man, shout-out to educators. Shout-out to those who, like, reach back and are really trying to shape the future of the world. Like, it's so undervalued and just underappreciated. So yeah, definitely a shout-out to you, and a shout-out to your family, man. That's awesome. So look, let's talk about this. Let's talk a little bit about the future of learning. So in your profile, right, like, when people look you up, you know, you talk about the world changing and, by relation, learning methods along with it. So what would you say are the top three things changing within the world of learning?Mike: So that's a great question, and I think that the #1 thing is--the way I would describe it is the urgency. There is going to be a shift in the way that people attend school, and that's what I mean when I say urgency. Like, how you get information and how quickly it comes to you. So right now, especially through K-12 education and even into college, education is sit and get, right? It's like, you trust that this person has the content knowledge to teach you, and so you sit and listen to lectures and take notes, and hopefully you retain enough to prove that you should get a job later in the future. The future of learning is different. The future of learning is gonna be on-demand. Learning is going to come to the person. The execution that you can see today would be, like, a Western Governors University where all of their courses are online. You can take them at your own pace. You have one mentor that you interact with your entire time, whether you're in undergrad or grad school, and you can get your college degree that way. The second thing that I think is changing in the world of learning is quite honestly students. One of the saddest things to think about in education is the idea that, like, education is the last frontier in the United States of America that remains without innovation. You walk into any public school, you will see desks in rows, you will see--you might even see chalkboards that have been there since the '60s, '70s, '40s in some cases, right? It is a model that is antiquated and has not responded to the change in people, the change in interest, the change in, like, you cannot educate students the way that you used to, right? And then the last thing that I think is changing in the world of education is technology, technology in and outside of the field. You know, artificial intelligence, machine learning, like, we have figured out how to make machines and devices do more for us today than ever before. When we were in school--I don't know if you remember this, but my teacher used to always tell me, "Mike, you have to show your work when you're doing math, because you won't always have a calculator with you."Zach: Yes. [laughs] Wow, wait a minute. Pause right there. Yo, that was a lie. Like [inaudible]--Mike: Right?Zach: The teacher definitely said you're not always gonna have--they'd be like, "What are you gonna do if you don't have a calculator with you?" Like, there's nowhere--you always have a calculator with you now. You have a phone.Mike: Always, yeah. I have a calculator, a media company, a personal assistant. I have [inaudible].Zach: Everything, yes.Mike: Everything, right? And that's what's so beautiful about the future of learning, right? Because up until now teachers tried to prepare students for the existing work world, but now you have a movement of educators and a movement of schools that are trying to prepare students for jobs that don't exist yet, right? And the calculator--you know, the iPhone is the perfect example. Like, no teacher in 1995 would ever believe you if you would have told them there's gonna be a flat glass device that you're gonna touch, and you can call, it can talk to you, it can be a calculator, right? They would never believe that. So I am fortunate to have been raised by an educator, you know, being my mom, who would tell me, like, "We don't know what the world's gonna look like when you go to work, so you have to be in your head. You have to imagine. You have to always look forward." And my mother very much so made me a futurist, so all I do is think about "What's the world gonna be like 10, 15 years in the future?" And that's why I think technology is so exciting, and it's--you know, if I'm talking about, you know, the last major change, you know, adaptive learning technology is going to do more for students than the best teacher ever could, and I--you know, adaptive learning tech is--if you don't know, it's technology that--like, let's say I'm in a math application. If I'm in 6th grade, it will give me a set of questions that are at a 6th grade difficulty. If I do well on those questions and prove to the app that I know 6th grade content, it will automatically move me up to 7th grade math. If I don't know a 6th grade concept, it will move me down to 5th grade until I master that concept, it'd move me back up to 6th grade and let me keep mastering and moving up. That is so much more efficient than even your best math teacher that it will change--in the future, that will change the role of the adult in the room. All of a sudden, you no longer have to disseminate information, but you have to create projects to help students use that information. You have to create real world connections and learning experience. And honestly, it helps teachers get to the part of their job that they love and away from the part of their job that they hate, which is lesson planning and lectures.Zach: Yeah. Man, that's incredible. That's incredible, and it's just so interesting because--so my father also--he also taught math for a little while as well, and, you know, he was on Living Corporate last season, and he talked a lot about the various jobs that he had, and one of the jobs he had was actually--he was a teacher's assistant, and he also taught high school math, and he was talking--he's a bit of a futurist himself. He was talking about, like--this was back in, like, '90. Like, '89, '90, and he's talking to these kids, and he's like, "Y'all, one day you're gonna have machines that are gonna be doing--a lot of these manual processes that we're doing, one day machines are gonna be taking over. They're gonna do these things." And, like, at the time all of his students were like, "What are you talking about?" "No, that's, like, way, way later in the future." And he's like, "I'm telling y'all." And, like, he was just talking about it, but he was just kind of, like, waxing poetic. He wasn't, like, really trying to, like--you know, he was just talking, but he wholeheartedly meant it. You know, it's rare though to have folks who can see, right? So yeah, that's definitely a blessing to have, folks in your life who can talk to you about those things. You know, so what would you say your top three predictions are for how organizations will need to adapt to future workforces in light of--you know, in light of what you're sharing about the future of learning, what ways do you think that organizations, like, you know, professional organizations in any industry--in oil and gas, in technology, in healthcare--how do you feel like these organizations are gonna have to adjust for future workforces?Mike: Yeah. So I think that they're gonna have to be comfortable with remote workers. That's my first big prediction is, like, they're gonna have be comfortable with remote workers, because today's internet allows you to do so much more than ever before. You know, like, now you have IT companies that no longer have to be in the building with you and can take over your desktop or your laptop and y'all are not even on the same Wi-Fi network. Like, that's how advanced we are. So if that's possible, then, you know, oil and gas companies or software companies or even, like, the National Basketball Association, who could be playing a game in Toronto and reviewing replay footage in live-time in Secaucus, New Jersey, right? So I think that they're gonna have to be comfortable with remote. The next big prediction that I have, and this is a really, really big one, is that in the future of work, the college degree will lose value. And I don't mean it will be completely worthless, but I do think because we came up in this generation where everybody sort of forced us to go to college, and I do think that there's somewhat of an oversaturation of bachelor's degrees in the marketplace right now, but what I think is because of things like lambda school and because of things like University for the People, Western Governors, there will be a pressure on any university that is outside of the top 20. If you're not in the Ivy League or if you're not a top 20 school that produces the best doctors and lawyers, you know, all of those positions that require advanced college degrees, then you are going to struggle to get students to sign up for your school after the next economic collapse. Like, things have been going financially, economically in this country pretty well for the last nine years, and my big prediction is in the next five to ten years there will be--economic collapse is the wrong turn, but there will be an economic recession, and when that recession hits--like, my alma mater, Texas State University, I don't know if students will enroll there and take on debt when they could go to a lambda school for free, or they could go to University of the People and get a bachelor's degree for $2,000. Like, you know? So I think that the college degree requirements are gonna have to change, and my last big prediction about what the future needs to adapt to is--it's the scary one. It's not [inaudible]--Zach: [laughs] I hear you hesitating. Go ahead.Mike: Yeah, [laughs] it's robots. Like, it's--there is a robot that can open doors. Like, there are companies, like [Boston?] Dynamics, that are designing robots that can deliver packages, right? And so I think we're gonna have to get used to--and this may be, you know, 20 to 30 years down the line, but there may be a robot that walks up to you and greets you and drops a package off at your door, right? And I think that, you know, direct-to-consumer business is gonna change. I think, like, Amazon--we'll see Amazon finally have to compete with, like, Old Navy and other brands, because everybody's gonna be able to use drone delivery and robot delivery to drop packages off at your door within the hour. So I think that, you know, that big artificial intelligence in that sense, like robots, drones, those are gonna be really, really important in the future of work, and companies are gonna have to start bending and altering the way that they operate.Zach: So, you know, first of all, everything you're talking about--like, Mike--and I'm not trying to poo-poo you--I don't really hear anything crazy in your predictions. Like, I think they're all very realistic. Like, so first of all--especially when you start talking about schools, because we're already seeing that today, right? Like, we're already seeing it, like, in MBA programs. If it's not a top 20, top--lowkey top, like, five, ten to five, you're not gonna get--you know, 'cause some folks think that, you know, you get an MBA--and we talked about this, we talked about this--this was early in season 1. There's a misconception that if you go and you get a graduate degree, then that automatically lines you up for paper, and it's like, "Eh, not necessarily," and it's because--it's because of the economic demand. It's also because of perception, but, like, there's no reason to--there's no reason to not assume that the trend that we're seeing within grad schools, we won't just start seeing that in, like, universities, and we do see that in universities already, right? Like, we already know that there some undergraduate degrees that are worth more than others, right? Like, we know that already, but, like, it hasn't been, like, super stark yet, but it will be one day.Mike: Yeah, it will be. Absolutely.Zach: Man, that's incredible. So, you know, I think this really, like, leads well into your current role as the chief operating officer of Guide. So, like, what can you talk to us about when it comes to Guide? Like, what can you share?Mike: Man, Guide--Guide is amazing. So Guide came together because a couple of people online were all having the same conversation about education. I was--you know, about two months ago, I sort of--you know, this is my first year outside of the traditional school system. I work for--my day job is at a school called Alpha, which is a school that uses adaptive learning technology in place of direct instruction, so we don't have any lecture. There's no classrooms. Our school looks like an open co-working space. It looks a WeWork for kids, right? And once I got out of the traditional school system, I had this opportunity to pick my head up and sort of look around, and I saw, like, there was all this stuff that I was missing. I saw that I was misusing LinkedIn and that I didn't know how powerful it could be. I didn't really know how to build community. So two months ago I started doing that. I went hardcore on LinkedIn. I went all in on, you know, Twitter and community building, and Tim Salau and I sort of started crossing paths because we were both posting about the future of learning, the future of work, sort of interacting with each other on LinkedIn, until one day Tim reached out and was like, "Hey, man, we've got to talk about this thing I'm working on." So Tim, myself, and our third co-founder Taban got on a call and talked about what has now turned into Guide, and Guide is a social learning app that is tailored towards high school students specifically to teach them life skills. We're going to create a new media called Snapshots, which are 30-second courses where a creator, any content creator, can come to our platform and break down transferable life skills into 30-second segments so that students can digest them and so they can remember the steps, go back and rewatch, and start to learn skills that are gonna benefit them in the future of work. So LinkedIn Learning is sort of, like, the adult version of this, but, you know, to get a certificate in LinkedIn Learning you may have to spend 12-15 hours doing that. Students [inaudible]--yeah, students don't have the capacity to think that way.Zach: No, nah-uh. We don't have the capacity to think that way. [laughs]Mike: Right, yeah, so imagine being able to build a course where a student could spend 15 minutes and get the same amount of material, the same amount of value? And now you have high school students, community college students, early college students, that are starting to build up this connection between skill building and the future of work, because--so I think the official number is, like, 65% of all, like, elementary school kids are going to fill jobs that currently don't exist. With that being the future, you have to build up this sort of tool-belt of skills that you can use in multiple ways. Ones like public speaking, ones like community building, ones like adaptability, ones like creativity, that are not as easily taught in skills. So that's what we're doing with Guide, and my role specifically with Guide is obviously managing the personnel that we have. We're sort of--we're in startup mode, so we sort of do it all, but I specifically create teacher content. I manage all of the curriculum on the app. I do strategic partnerships. And so our founders team works really, really close together. You know, Tim is doing most of the UX and user experience design. Taban is our CTO, and he's actually code--like, hard-coding the app and everything like that, so we have a phenomenal team that's ready to do some phenomenal work. So I'm super excited about Guide, and I'm glad you asked me about it.Zach: Man, that's awesome. No, no, no. I'm glad that you guys are working on it, and I'm really excited for what it's gonna be. Where can people learn more about Guide today?Mike: So you can learn more about Guide at guideapp.co. That's our website right now. We have sort of, like, a "Coming Soon" page. Our website is currently under construction. Our communications lead and our content team is working really, really hard to get the website up in the next couple of weeks. You can also follow myself on LinkedIn. You can follow me on LinkedIn or Twitter. My Twitter handle is @justmikeyates, like j-u-s-t Mike Yates. You can also follow and connect with Tim. We are constantly posting about Guide. We're posting resources in the--for all the educators out there, in the coming weeks we will be posting some teacher toolkits and some quick-start guides so that you can use Guide and our Snapshots in your classroom, and we'll sort of, like, break down what a school day would look like with Guide to where you don't have to abandon all of your curriculums trying to teach life skills. You can do it within the course of your math class or your history class or your English class.Zach: Oh, I love this, man. It's so disruptive, but, like, for all the right reasons. It's not like guys from California trying to disrupt, like, your local bodega. This is, like, something that we need. This is awesome. Well, look, man, you know I could keep on going, but let's go ahead and wrap up, man. I want to give you a second though. Do you have any words, any shout-outs for us?Mike: Yeah. So one of the things that--sort of my goal in terms of online communication, the goal that I had set for myself for online communication has been to tell educators out there this very simple message, and that's that you need to be building a personal brand. You need to be on LinkedIn, active, and interacting with other business professionals and other fields as well as professionals in education, because #1 there's a larger conversation being had about disruptive education technology, about the future of learning and the way that that's gonna look. I want you to be a part of that. I want you to be a part of shaping what school looks like in this country forever. The other thing is that school districts all across the country quite frankly are running out of money and teachers are getting laid off. It doesn't pay enough for you to put all of the time and the passion and the heart that you do into your classroom on a day-to-day, so you should have a plan B, and that plan B can be your personal brand, because everybody's looking for expertise that comes from the classroom, it seems like at this point. So I want teachers to know that. And in terms of shout-outs, I want to shout-out my wife, Alex. She holds it down like no other. My wife a stay-at-home mom and we have four kids, so she is--she's working a lot harder than I am. So shout-outs to her and my kids and the whole Guide team. Shout-out to Tim, Taban, Monale, Jonathan. We are doing some phenomenal work.Zach: Man, that's awesome, man. Well, look, that's gonna do it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Mike Yates, learning futurist and COO of Guide. Peace.

On the twenty-third installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield (@LayfieldResume) talks about the difference between being perceived as a doer versus as an achiever at work. He also shares a few tips on how to stand out as the latter rather than the former.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. Have you ever heard of your resume painting you as more of a doer rather than an achiever? If so, you probably were like, "But what does that really mean?" Well, when it comes to writing the description for both your resume and LinkedIn profile, you have to be cognizant of the picture you're painting. Are you painting the picture of a doer, a person who completes a task, or an achiever, someone who doesn't just get the task done, but drives results? All too often we're painting ourselves out to simply be doers. See, many companies are looking to our previous work history as an indicator of what their return in investment in us can be. It's essential that we show them what we did, not just tell them, and the way that we do that is by highlighting the results and accomplishments we've had while in those roles. In order to switch up the narrative, start adding in numbers, metrics, and outcomes. These help illustrate the value you brought to your organization while in that role. So instead of saying you managed a team, say you oversaw a five-person marketing team. Instead of saying you exceeded the sales goals, say you exceeded monthly sales goals on average by 15%. Adding in that information can sometimes be a little hard. That's why I always suggest keeping a career journal, where you can write down your highlights to use later in resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and cover letters. If you need some help figuring out what you can include now, request a copy of your performance reviews. You or your boss more than likely put a few things in there that you can use. And remember that realistic estimates, not lies, are acceptable if necessary. Just try to be as accurate as possible and consistent whenever you speak about it. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Precious Williams of Perfect Pitches by Precious to talk about how to pitch for yourself effectively. They break down the basics of a pitch and discuss what most people get wrong when pitching for themselves.Connect with Precious on LinkedIn or Twitter, and check out her website below!https://perfectpitchesbyprecious.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate. Now, look, y'all. Y'all know we have people come through the spot from time to time. We have real conversations about real things, okay? And this episode is no different, okay? We've got Precious Williams with us on the show. Precious Williams is a world-class master communicator who works with successful women entrepreneurs and helps them take their professional speaking skills to the next level. With over 23--count 'em, 2-3, Michael Jordan, LeBron James--years of experience conceptualizing unique branding and marketing techniques, Williams seeks to train individuals and companies on how to remain authentic while marketing concepts and visions to distinctive audiences. Sound Man, you've got to give me a round of applause for that. [he obliges] With that being said--Precious: Oh, let me snap. Snap, snap, snap.Zach: Come on. Come on, snaps. With that being said, Precious, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Precious: I'm good. I'm really good today. I'm living well. I'm living my life like it's golden. "Living my life like it's golden."Zach: Drinking some water?Precious: You know [what?] We do. We drink water all day.Zach: You sound really hydrated right now.Precious: I am hydrated. I'm really hydrated. Come on now.Zach: I can feel it--I can feel it through the ancestral plane.Precious: Okay!Zach: I know I gave a little bit of an intro, but for those of us who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Precious: Yes. My name is Precious Williams, proud founder and CEO of Perfect Pitches by Precious. And again, thank you for saying I'm a world-class master communicator, and it is very true. I've been a professional speaker since I was 16 years old, and this year I turned 40. I've appeared on Shark Tank, CNN, Wall Street Journal, FOX Business News, appeared in movies, I've been in television commercials, and I'm a 13-time National Elevator Pitch champion. So that is how a lot of shows got interested in me in the first place, but before we did all of that, we were--I was an unwanted child living in the inner city of St. Louis, Missouri, and my mother didn't like me and beat me up constantly. My father was a drug addict. And so when I look back at my life, I'm always astounded to this day - "How did I make it? How did I not become a statistic? How do I live in the great state of New York?" And I've been here 11 years. Never been raped, robbed, or beaten. Living my dream of being a professional speaker where I work with wonderful, successful women entrepreneurs who struggle with bringing their next big ideas, concepts, brands, products and services, to different markets. So if you need a pitch for an investor, I got you. Need a pitch for media? I got you. You need a pitch at networking events? I got you. That is what I do. And I've also iterated to teaching new and emerging speakers how to successfully build a speaker platform so that they're attractive to conference organizers and event planners. And for professional speakers or seasoned speakers, I teach them how to get paid speaking engagements. So when I tell you we are the art and science of the most killer pitches, we also do not play. I'm not new to this. I'm true to this. I am Precious Williams, the #KillerPitchMaster, and I will help you - what? - #slay all competition.Zach: My God. Sound Man, give me some air horns. [he complies] That's crazy. That's incredible. And honestly, I really want to add one of those '90s "Ow"s. That was incredible. That's incredible. Precious: Thank you.Zach: My goodness gracious. Okay, then. Well, shoot. You did that with that little ol' question, so you're gonna kill the rest of this. Let's start with the basics. What is a pitch?Precious: A pitch is a short, brief introduction to you, your company, your career, your life, that will make you attractive and interesting to an interested party, someone that you don't know but you want to get in front of. So think about getting on an elevator and taking it to, I don't know, the 20th floor. In that time, you should be able to have a pitch good enough to spark attention and make them want to meet with you or take your phone call. So as an elevator pitch master, I have won competitions in 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, and 10 minutes. When I won Black Enterprise, I won it in 1 minute--I became a finalist in 60 seconds, and I killed it in 30 seconds, and that's how I won in 2013, Black Enterprise.Zach: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. So, you know, we've talked about a little bit about--we've talked a bit. Not a little bit. We've talked a good bit actually about strategic self-advocacy on Living Corporate, right? What would you say most folk get wrong when it comes to pitching themselves?Precious: I find that most people are very boring. Most people have no idea how to introduce themselves in a way that makes them star-quality material. I find that people don't give a lot of thought to it, thinking that you should just wing it, and if [you learn anything] from me, it's preparation is key, practice perfectly, perform perfectly is key. Also, give them some of that funk, that flavor of who you are. So for example, when I went on Shark Tank, I knew they weren't ready for me, 'cause I don't come like anybody else. As a champion, you can't come like anybody else. If you want the basics, you don't have Precious. I'm not a basic chick at all. So I went in with a low-cut canary yellow form-fitting [inaudible] dress--and I was 275 pounds, and my company was Curvy Girls Lingerie, and I was pitching Curvy Girls Lingerie--and so, you know, when you're walking down the hall that music doesn't play. Just so we're clear, that music does not play. When they open up those doors and it's just you and the Sharks, I walked in like "Wait until they get a load of me. They ain't never seen nothing like me." So when I hit that X, I was going IN. Listen, I was in the paint. I was going HARD in the paint, and then I said, "Okay, ladies. Now let's get in formation." The door opened again, and my plus-sized models came through, and I tell you, they had never--I said, "Because I know what I'm doing." If you want to be average, [random?], or ordinary, do what regular people do. If you want to stand out and really make an impact, you have to be different. So I wrote an article a long time ago called "Does Shark Tank Teach You Everything You Need to Know About Pitching?" And there's no way it can, and don't be lulled into thinking that the people who get the investments are actually better than the people who don't. And sometimes your vision is beyond what most people can see. That's why you're called a visionary, and I'm a visionary and a trailblazer. You're speaking to investors. If you're speaking to a network--speaking at a networking event or you're speaking to the media, what is going to make you stand out like no other? And when we talk about self-promotion or self-actualization, all of that, you really need to hone in on what makes you different from everyone else and can you demonstrate that difference even if your products and services weren't in the room. Zach: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. This is what we're gonna do. This is a first for the Living Corporate podcast, but I feel like you can handle it. So I'm gonna give you some scenarios, right, where you would pitch yourself. I want you to give me, like, how you would do it. So I got three of 'em, okay? So are you ready?Precious: I'm ready.Zach: Okay, here we go. "You're a mid-level employee who's done the work but keeps getting passed over for a promotion that you've wanted for a while. How do you handle that?" How do you pitch yourself to get the promotion you're looking for?Precious: First of all, I would start making noise and buzz about what it is that I have done. So if you're a mid-level employee, what are your results? What's your value added? What content have you created? What things have set you apart from the others? A lot of the times when you're a mid-level employee you think that just doing the work is enough, but you have to promote what you do. You have to quantify what you do. You have to qualify what you do. You have to show how you being you has increased sales, has decreased problem areas, how you've been invaluable to the company. You have shown loyalty, fidelity, and you want the opportunity to shine on a bigger state in that promotion, but before you can do that, you have to show where you came from and where you took the company from where it was to where it is now, and that means you need to document what it is that you've done, what you've brought to the table, great ideas that have been implemented on, and you definitely want to walk in dressed like the promotion, not what you are right now. Give them something to look at. Give them a visual that they're not ready for.Zach: Yeah. I love it. I'm so excited. Okay, okay, okay. So that's great. This is the second scenario. "You're a new employee, and you're looking for a mentor." Precious: This is where we get into passion, energy, and intensity. So when you're looking for a mentor, one of the greatest tools alive, especially if you're a new employee at a new company, is to go about seeing who are the power players in the organization or in the company. What you want to do is see if you can spend a little bit of time with a few of them and get to know them. You'll ask them [if] they can take on any projects where you get to work closely with them. Let them know that you're always available--within reason, let me put it like that--that you're always available within reason to work on different projects because you want to stay a step above the people that you started with, and you have to show initiative. You have to show focus, grace, ease, and just mercy. You have to show all of that. And so when they see you working hard, they see that you came in that first day and you were strategic about what it is that you're doing. That stands out. When you allow them into your strategic vision and how you see yourself elevating the company or being a very valuable resource to the company, don't be afraid to toot your horn about what you've done in the past and what you plan to do there. And if you're young, man, you can do a lot for a company, as long as you keep showing that dedication and that focus. You can take instruction, but you can also give the ideas that young people always have that are so vibrant and so necessary to an organization in moving forward. That's what I would do.Zach: Amen. I love this, I love this. Okay, here's #3. Here we go. Last one. "You're venturing out to start your own side hustle, and you've found someone you think would be a great fit to join the team."Precious: Mm-hmm. Thinking that they're a great fit before I just jump on the bandwagon, I would vet them, because there are things in peoples' backgrounds that you may not know that might prevent them from being the great asset that you think they're going to be. So I would look them up online. I would--you know, 'cause you can meet a lot of people, and listen, I've been in this situation. I've had a partner that we did not work out. On paper we both looked good together. In person, in reality, we could be at each other's throats. One could be focused on money so much, the other one focused on customer service so much, that you constantly bump heads because you're not in a true partnership. What does that person bring to the table that you already don't have? You vet them, and you also go through a due diligence process. You interview them. You let them know about this great opportunity, but you vet them as they're vetting you. Don't make a decision immediately. You're not thirsty. You're not thirsty.Zach: Yeah. Precious: And since you're not thirsty, you can give it a week. You can give it a little bit of time and do more due diligence. You want to make sure that--even if you're the top person in your company or in your program, what you definitely want to make sure is that you sound off to someone that you trust to make sure that you're not rushing into a decision. That's what I would do as a killer pitch master.Zach: I love that, I love that. Now, look, you know we could keep going. You know this.Precious: I know.Zach: But before I let you go, do you have any parting words or shout-outs? Precious: Yes. I want to say that fortune favors the bold. If you are bold enough, you can make miracles happen with God's grace and mercy. When you step out on that faith, and you've been given a vision, it's time you move towards it. We don't live in the day and age of our grandparents or even our parents. You can really eat what you kill. You can really make a difference and impact walking in your authentic light and in your authentic, God-given purpose. Secondly, if you're someone who is looking for pitching help, I am here, and I am available. I am here to work with you on how to monetize your message, how to turn your mess into your message, and how to really--Zach: Come on, now. "Mess into your message?"Precious: Your mess into your message. Listen, I've been homeless. I've had an addiction. I've had all sorts of things happen to me. I've battled cancer and all of that kind of stuff. It doesn't matter. And I've been living my best life because I was able to face it and move on. Deal with the trauma. So what I want to say to everyone, when you look at someone that you think has it going on, you don't know their backstory, and it's important--and that's why I used to watch Behind the Musics when I was younger, Intimate Portrait, Biography, because I really wanted to know the true story. I didn't want the glitz and glamour story. I wanted to know "What did they overcome?" Because that would give me strength to know that I could overcome too. So get really comfortable with wanting to hear peoples' stories, because that will give you the catalyst to get off of your behind and make moves. Like Future and Drake said, "What a time to be alive." What a time. We can have a Zoom call, a Skype call. You don't have to leave and go to the office. You can just do things as you already are, and you can make a great impact. I've been in Corporate America. I've done that, and now I am a serial entrepreneur, international professional speaker, and just an all-around gal about town, right? All-around gal about town, and I am a full-figured diva on a mission, and that's to take over the world one curvy girl at a time.Zach: Come on. Yo, this has been a great interview. Thank you so much for being here, Precious.Precious: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.Zach: No, I appreciate you. So look, that does it for us, y'all. Thank y'all for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com or livingcorporate.co or livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net. We've got all the Living Corporates except for livingcorporate.com because Australia has livingcorporate.com, you know what I'm saying? They're not really trying to talk to us yet. I might need to talk to you, Precious, on how we can pitch to them so they can give us that domain, but look--Precious: That's right.Zach: I'm saying, but we got--but if you Google Living Corporate, ayo, we out here. So if you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com, or you could just DM us on any social media 'cause the DMs are wide open. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Precious Williams, CEO of Perfect Pitches by Precious. Boy, my sound man is gonna have to really work on those Ps, but I love it. This has been Zach, y'all. Chat with y'all soon. Peace.Precious: We out!

On the twenty-second entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield (@LayfieldResume) talks about meetings and how you can turn some of those unnecessary ones into emails. Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanlayfield/https://www.instagram.com/layfieldresume/https://www.facebook.com/LayfieldResume/https://twitter.com/layfieldresumeTRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, we're gonna talk about meetings and how you can turn some of those unnecessary ones into emails. Don't you hate when you have a meeting at work, and by the end of it you feel like you've wasted a ton of time? Most managers can spend up to 50% of their time in meetings, but they consider 67% of the meetings that they attend to be failures. All of those unnecessary and unproductive meetings makes everyone hate them in general, so next time you're the host of one, ask yourself - "Is it necessary to meet in person?" If the answer is no, then consider turning your meetings into an email. There are three main things you need to make sure are in your email. First, logistics. Explain why you're canceling the meeting and set the expectations for the next meeting. The second thing? Action items. List any actions that need to be taken, who is supposed to complete them, and by when. To ensure people notice their responsibilities, make sure to put their names in bold so you know they'll see it. The third and final thing? Updates. If there have been any changes in the information, be sure to provide those updates to the group. If you check my Instagram, @LayfieldResume, you can provide this tip where I also provide an email template that you can use in these instances. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Zach sits down with Joe Price, the co-founder and general manager of Grown Up Sports, to talk about GUS Leagues, and Joe shares a few physical wellness tips for professionals, particularly people of color.Check out GUS Leagues!Read the articles mentioned on the show:Why Your Chair Might Be Killing YouOffice Exercise: Add More Activity to Your WorkdayThe Future of Wellness at WorkThe Future of Employee WellnessTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate. Now, look, Ade and I have had several guests on the Living Corporate platform. We've had, you know, celebrities, musicians, authors, CEOs, but we haven't had my brother on the show. In fact, to be more specific, we haven't had my brother-in-law on the show, okay? And today we actually have a special guest, Joseph Price. Joe, what's up, man? How are you doing?Joe: Hey. I'm doing well, Zach. Zachary. How are you?Zach: I'm doing great, man. So look, today we're talking about wellness, and I think it's just a really great fit for you to be the guest to talk about wellness because of your background, your current passions, and just your level of expertise in physical and personal health. I mean, I'm not saying that you're, like, a doctor, but I'm saying, like, you got--you know what I'm saying? You've got some credentials.Joe: I am not a doctor, that is correct. [laughs] Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm happy to chat a little bit about what I do and my experience in the space.Zach: Man, that sounds awesome. So look, without further ado, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?Joe: So for the sake of the podcast professionally, I own and operate an organization called GUS Leagues, which stands for Grown Up Sports Leagues. We're an adult sport and social club. We're based in Houston, Texas. Adult sport and social club means we essentially facilitate sports leagues, tournaments, some corporate wellness and other fun activities around town. So a little bit of sport, a little bit of social, and that's what I do by profession.Zach: That's awesome, man. So look, as you've already alluded to and as I said at the top, we're talking about physical wellness for corporate professionals. Let's talk a little bit about what physical wellness means to you. And I recognize that's a very broad statement, so, you know, you can take that and kind of wax poetic however which way you want.Joe: Yeah. So physical wellness obviously can be pretty broad. What drew me to the space specifically is that I'm into team sports. It's what I've done for fun. I've fostered community throughout my childhood, adolescence, and adult life, and I think that type of engagement is still something that people should do as they get older, and it's a good way to connect with other adults that sometimes can be a useful way to connect outside of just happy hours, drinking, getting dinner. You know, there's a way that you can improve yourself and still connect with people as an adult, and that's been a good way for me and something that I promote to our companies, to our friends, and how I personally connect with people. So that's the part that speaks to me about what we do. I still think it's very important--a good way for people to connect, period.Zach: Man, nah, straight up, and you're absolutely right that every time--well, let me not say every time, right? You don't want to speak in absolutes, but more often times than not, especially in consulting, when you talk about kicking it with somebody or, like, doing something fun, it often revolves around getting a drink, getting something to eat, right? Especially in consulting. They talk about, like, the consulting 15, right? Like, you pick up weight just traveling and eating out all of the time, and so I think that you're 100% right that finding other avenues to connect and build relationships as opposed to kind of, like, staring down a plate of food or staring in-between a bottle. So let's talk a little bit more about Grown Up Sports, right? Like, what's the story behind the company? Why the name? All of that. Just talk to us a little bit about it.Joe: As I alluded, we do grown up sports, and I--we'll just give you a little bit of background about how we even came to call ourselves that, 'cause I find the story interesting. We--me and my business partner, John, started this company about seven years ago. I know John because we both played intramurals at the University of Texas in Austin. That's where we went to undergrad. He worked for RecSports, was a sports management major, and he actually interned for a company that was similar to ours that was based in Austin and helped them with their original expansion out to San Antonio, and so this is something that he was passionate about from when he was forming a passion about anything. So when he was, like, 21. That was his focus. We both moved to Houston. He came here for law school. I came just to start my professional career. My family is from Houston. And we were looking for a similar community to that that we had when we were an undergrad playing intramurals. Couldn't find anything that we felt met that need in the space, and so--he had been wanting to do that for quite some time. We decided--so a little bit of background about me. I was working with an education technology start-up on the side, helping them with an expansion in Houston, so I had a little bit of entrepreneurial experience, and so when he was looking to start this he was looking for a partner, and he comes to me with the idea. We go through his business plan. I tell him it's awesome. I don't have time for it. Some situations arose that made it seem like the time was right, and so we decided that we would try to start this company, and then we decided we wanted to start it--we're both basketball guys, and so this was during the time when the NBA was on a lockout--Zach: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.Joe: Yeah, and so what you're seeing on ESPN at the time is a bunch of leagues, and we wanted to start with a basketball league. Leagues that are becoming popularized with these big names, and it's, like, the Goodman League, the Drew League. You know, something that has a name that pops, something you want to [?], like, name our company. We really wanted to do, like, recreational leagues in Houston, and so we had a name, that was Houston Rec Leagues, and then as we started thinking a little bit more long-term it was like, "Oh, that sounds a little bit limiting." So, you know, [had] a moment of clarity if you will [?], and it's like, "What could we name our company that rolls off the tongue?" And it was like, "We need something that's gonna pop and speak to people like the Drew League," and so I was thinking of what we were planning to provide, grown up sports. GUS. GUS League. You know, "It's gonna--it's gonna roll off the tongue. People are gonna love it," and, you know, it doesn't really work like that, but that was kind of the motivation behind why we [?] named it that, and it also gave us the opportunity if we ever wanted to expand our horizons to other geographic areas that it's not so limiting in scope as Houston Rec Leagues might have been.Zach: I love it.Joe: So that's a little bit about the name, yeah. And even our motivation--so this was--for me, this is how I make--[?] my closest friends, you know, I know 'em through sports. How I met my business partner, I met him through essentially, you know, our company, but for college students and intramurals. So this was just a natural thing for us to do, and it's nice that we've been able to find a way to make some money off something that we actually--we use the product ourselves, and we were looking for a need--the need was something that we were trying to solve for ourselves first and foremost.Zach: Man, I love that. And, you know, it's funny, you talk--and you talked about, like, it doesn't really work that way, but GUS does roll off the tongue, and it's interesting because as someone who lives in Houston, it feels like almost every other person, especially, like, before I joined the current firm that I'm at, like, everyone is either--they've either heard about it or they're a part of it. If I'm with somebody and, like, I can tell that they play basketball--you know the type, right? Either it's their walk or their build. I say, "Do you hoop?" And they'll be like, "Oh, yeah. You know, I do some intramural stuff. It's, like, an adult intramural." I'm like, "Oh, okay. Have you heard of GUS?" They're like, "Yeah, that's what I meant." I'm like, "Oh," and I remember after, like, the fourth or fifth time I was like, "Dang, this mug is real." Like, it's just super funny, but, like, anybody I see somebody with, like, that sore walk, you know what I'm talking about? Like, with the--you know. The limp--Joe: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, our knees are aging faster than the rest of us for sure. Zach: It's funny, but it's not funny at all. But I'll see it, and I'm like, "Oh, okay. He probably hoops," and I just--I mean, there's a strong percentage, man, and they'll be like, "Oh, GUS." It's--like, it's smooth, to your point. You talked about building up this business with John, and there was a point in time where you were building this up while you were actually in business school. Like, can we talk a little bit about what that was like?Joe: So I went to the University of Michigan for business school, got my MBA. Zach: [Go] Blue.Joe: Go Blue. Ooh, I appreciate that. And the reason I--I wanted to go to business school for a while before I went and didn't have necessarily a reason, a compelling reason. Like, I didn't know that I necessarily wanted to expand the career that I was in, if I was doing it to grow within the ranks of my current company, but after we started GUS--me personally I have always had ambitions to start a company, manage a company, be--have some entrepreneurial avenue in my life, and after we started GUS [I] had a real thing to actually focus on while I was in grad school. And that was--it was really useful. I think a lot of times you can run into students that are pursuing higher-level degrees, and sometimes it's a check on a box. For me it was a very personal journey. It's about personal development. I knew that maybe the cost of tuition is really high for me to learn about doing something that's more risky, and it--really the natural thing would be to take a more professional route, but I knew that I needed to get a little bit of the business chops if I ever wanted to grow this thing into something worth talking about, and so the business school aspect was really useful for me, being in an environment where I could actually focus on the business side of the company and not just the day-to-day operations, pull back from the day-to-day operations. I thought I was gonna be able to do both at the same time. That was proven very impossible as soon as I got on campus. But also to explore avenues with resources and advisers and mentors that were there to help me formulate my thoughts for what this could be and what I might want to focus on in the future. So the MBA process was wonderful for me, even just to think about more of the business side of starting a company--you know, you start a company. It's cool, it's fun, and then suddenly you get into, like, accounting problems, incentives with your employees and stuff like that, so this isn't [?]--Zach: Collections.Joe: Right. Y'all--oh, my gosh. Yeah.Zach: Yeah. No, that's incredible. Man, I figured I would ask. It was interesting 'cause we--you know, we had Nicaila on the show as well, and she talked about her time getting her MBA, and you're absolutely right, right, that--well, let me back up, 'cause I have not gotten my MBA, okay? So let me not talk and try to false flex, but when I talk to people--when I talk to people who have gotten an MBA, a lot of them will come back and be like, "Man, you know, I was just kind of doing this to check a box," or, you know, "I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just kind of going for it." And there's no shame in that, right? But I remember in talking to you about your journey, you know, you were very purposed in what you were doing, and I remember as I was thinking about getting back into school, that really helped shape me and shape my point of view in terms of "What am I actually doing this for?" Because it's a lot of time, and for many it's a lot of money, so there needs to be--in my opinion there should be some strategy you have, and so what was really cool to me was the fact that you had a strategy behind what you were doing. Okay, cool. Cool, cool, cool. So let's get back to wellness. If you had three physical wellness tips for professionals, particularly people of color, what would they be?Joe: Yeah. So I think just the baseline of staying active is really important. What we do is pretty structured, but on the note of people of color, we have done events with a color cancer foundation start-up by a brother based out of Austin who wanted to start something for people of color that are more susceptible to colon cancer because of physical inactivity. We've done events with them raising awareness, and the events that we did were not around the typical sports leagues that we do. They're, like, fun in the sun-type days, a field day, a bunch of activities - some tug-of-war, a watermelon-eating game, playing some water balloons in the sand. Just things that you're doing for fun with the purpose of reminding people that just being active can be fun and that it's an important thing to do as a part of, like, your daily wellness. And a lot of times your physical wellness can just--it can be preventative of things that could be much worse if you aren't--if you aren't prioritizing your wellness, and so part of it is just staying active period. I read an article around when we started this company that was in GQ that was--I think the title of the article was, like, "Our Chairs Are Killing Us." Yeah. We are dormant by profession, and our desks are actually harming us just by sitting all day, and, so, you know, the primary goal is literally just "Get up. Go do something. Take a walk," you know? Maybe take a 15-minute break every 4 hours. That's what a doctor would tell you. So that's the baseline. I do think--obviously I'm biased, but there's something to be said about continuing to play sports as an adult, team sports. I think some of that can be intimidating, but, you know, the majority of our customers or participants are corporate, and they're corporate groups getting together. They're doing low-stakes activities. They're playing recreational volleyball with us. A lot of it is about team building, team wellness, just getting people to get to know each other, have a good time--get outside of the office and have a good time, but also they're doing something active, and that's--sometimes that can be a good alternative to getting a drink and eating. And so, you know, if you--if you need some accountability, sometimes it's useful to do something like join a team with your office, and that can be--and it can be something low-stakes that's not intimidating, and then the third would be, you know, if you're not into committing to things like team sports, go do something on a one-day. Like, go to a run club if you want to go find some people that do something active but you don't have to commit to anything week in and week out, and sometimes that can be the gateway for you to find out more about, like, people that do this type of thing, but also you can pop in, pop out, do it on your own, and, you know, it might even help you find some other people that can get you into the types of things that are active, 'cause sometimes you just don't have the support system and it's hard to get started. So, you know, those are just a couple avenues to just get the ball rolling, and they're good ways to meet people. Personally--obviously my personal network is a little more active, but you also find that active people are interesting people. Like, they're finding a way to continue to do something, to push themselves, and that's--often times those are interesting people to be around and will make you a more interesting person as well.Zach: I love that. No, you're absolutely right, and man--the one point you made around just, like, getting up, that resonates with me a lot, 'cause man, I got these chairs, right, at my client site. I just be sitting down all day, Joe, so I find--Joe: They're so comfortable. They're ergonomically, like, sound, you know? We have such good executive chairs now. They're tempting to sit all day, and you just need--sometimes you need something to tell you.Zach: But let me keep it a bean with you though. Like, even still, even them ergonomic chairs, you know, like, your behind start getting numb, so what I started--I started getting up, man. I had to start taking my walks downtown, 'cause, like, I can't--I can't do it, man. It's too much. Like, I'm used to feeling all parts of my body. Like, I'm 29 years old. I should feel my body when I'm at work, you know what I'm saying? Like, come on. We gotta get up. So that's real though. I appreciate that. Now, look, don't let me shortchange you. Where can people learn more about GUS?Joe: We--you know, GUS Leagues, if you go to GUS Leagues on any social media channel, @GUSleagues, you'll find us. GUSleagues.com, our website, is pretty informative. You can find out all of the things we do and things you can engage with us. If you happen to be in Houston and you work for a company that's looking to do a team-building activity, check us out. We do that type of thing as well. Yeah, you know, you can--if you type in GUS--if you type in basketball, if you type in adult sports in Houston, you're probably gonna find us.Zach: Oh, that's a lowkey stunt, but I appreciate it.Joe: That was--it was a light flex, but it's typically accurate.Zach: It was a light flex, but it's accurate. That's what make flexing dope, is when, like, you say something that's just, like, it's facts though. You're right. So when you type in "basketball," you type in "adult rec," Grown Up Sports will pop up, y'all. And this is not even an ad, yo. It's true.Joe: No, this is not a paid--it's not a paid spot. [inaudible].Zach: This is not a paid spot, facts. But what we're gonna do, Joe, we'll make sure that we have all of the information down at the bottom. And listen, for those who don't know, we talk a little bit about--a lot of bit, a lot about the future of work, right? And we talk about how teams and groups and organizations are gonna be changing, and listen, y'all, for those who don't know, get in the know. We'll make sure to put some articles in the show links as well, but wellness is gonna be a large portion of how organizations center and manage their teams. It's gonna be a larger point of or part of employee incentives. So the more that you can really learn and understand and get plugged into spaces like this the better. So I'm talking to y'all employees and I'm talking to y'all corporate big wigs, y'all who be making decisions, because I know y'all be listening to this too. Shout-out to the people who be making decisions. What's up? Okay, before we go, Joe, any parting words or shout-outs?Joe: No, just shout-out to you. This is--love the podcast, love what you're doing. I think it's important work, and more power to you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the shout-out too. I'm amongst really good company on this show, and you're an excellent interviewer, so I appreciate the attention to detail.Zach: Aw. Man, so, you know, I don't have my soundboard, but man, if I did, like, I would play, like, the theme song from "My Brother and Me." Remember that show? "My Brother and Me" on Nickelodeon? [I’d like to add it, but I’m unsure if that’s legal]Joe: Oh, my gosh. Yes. So good.Zach: Yeah, yeah, but it's okay. All right. Well, that does it for us, y'all. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to check us out on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com, please say the dash, okay? Now, look, it's also livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net. We got, like, all the Living Corporates, Joe, except for livingcorporate.com, 'cause Australia got the domain, bro, and they not letting it up. I don't know what's up.Joe: Amazing.Zach: I know, right? If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com, or you can just hit us up on DMs. Our DMs are wide open. Just slide up in there, ask us a question. We'll make sure to answer your question, and we'll call the title--the episode of the show "Listener Letters." We've done 'em a couple of times. We'll continue to do it. Just send us the questions. Now, look, this has been Zach, and you've been listening to Joseph Price, founder--well, co-founder, 'cause no disrespect to Favor. John Favor, what's up? We see you. And CEO of Grown Up Sports, based in Houston, Texas. 'Til next time--Joe: [makes horn-like noises]Zach: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, snap. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Before we go, I do need to get some--no, no, no. Joe, that's a good point. Sound Man, give me my air horns right HERE. [he does] Okay, and now we're gone. Peace.