On the thirty-seventh installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield talks about networking in a way that most of us don’t consider or sometimes downright avoid - reaching out to old high school, college, and work friends that we've lost touch with. Tristan shares how they can open up whole worlds we didn't even know existed and more.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!Visit our website!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What’s going on, y'all? It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week, let’s talk about networking, but in a way that most of us don’t consider or sometimes downright avoid.Often times when we hear the word “networking” it brings up images of rooms filled with people that we don’t know and the anxiety of having to participate in small talk for the next two hours. But what if I told you there another way to connect with people that is not only a bit easier for most, but research shows tends to be more beneficial?Many of us overlook the value in reaching out to old high school, college, and work friends that we’ve lost touch with. These connections are known as dormant connections. But the research shows that reaching out these people can open up a whole new world of resources. Just think about it, these people aren’t running the same circles as you which means that they more than likely have access to information and resources that you and your current circle aren’t privy to! They've been meeting different people and learning different things in the last few years, so they can open up whole worlds you didn't know existed.Also, you typically already have had a relationship with these people so it tends to be easier to reach out to reconnect. Just don’t dive into asking for favors right away, take some time to research what they’ve been up to, try to find a way to be of service to them, and simply ask for insight. You’ll be amazed at what they may come back with!This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach has the pleasure of speaking with Glenn Newman, VMware's Global Diversity & Inclusion Program Manager, in this episode focused around all things D&I. Glenn is a professional with over seven years of diversity and inclusion, campus recruitment, and talent management experience. In his current role at VMware, Glenn is working to take VMware's Power of Difference communities (PODs) to the next level by helping them achieve business and D&I program objectives. He shares with us what he's most excited about when it comes to his role and VMware in 2020 and so much more. Check out Ijeoma Oluo's book, So You Want to Talk About Race, on Amazon!Connect with Glenn on LinkedIn!Visit our website!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and you know what we do. I say a little thing, I go on with a joke, and then I say something about how we amplify the voices of black and brown people at work. Shout-out to all of our listeners, our first and last time listeners, you know what I'm saying? The millennials, the Gen X'ers. The--what's after the Gen X'ers? The Baby Boomers, and then also some of y'all Gen Y--them Gen Z's, rather. Excuse me. Gen Y is another word for millennials. You know what I'm talking about. If you're new here, you know what we do. We do this through--we amplify voices through authentic, accessible discussions with black and brown leaders. Today is no different as we have Glenn Newman with VMware. Hold up, now. Glenn Newman with VMware? I gotta go ahead and give just one quick air horn for that. [air horn sfx] Yes. We out here. We out here. We out here. Glenn is a D&I and talent professional with over seven years of diversity and inclusion, campus recruitment, and talent management experience. In his current role at VMware, Glenn is working to make VMware's power of difference communities - they call those pods, y'all - to take them to the next level by helping them achieve business and D&I program objectives. He is also focused on building inclusive manager and leadership capabilities as the company works to increase representation of underrepresented minorities and women by fostering a more inclusive culture, okay, where employees feel like they belong and they can bring their authentic selves to work every day. Okay, now listen, y'all, that was a whole bunch of, like, corporate talk to say Glenn is out here trying to make it better for black and brown folks at VMware to do what they do, okay? That's all that that was saying. But, you know, they gotta--in this D&I space, we have to kind of pretty things up with these, like, really flowery and colorful languages, but that's what he's doing, okay? Now, look, previously Glenn managed the overall recruitment of associates and consultants for BCG--okay, what's up, BCG? Hold up. ["ow" sfx] But this ain't a BCG podcast. I'm just saying. He also had a talent in D&I roles at Travelport, Accenture, Visa, Google--as a contractor--see, I like... you know what? Glenn is an honest dude, man. So he sent me over this copy, right, and on the copy it says "contract" in parentheses. Glenn, you ain't gotta be that honest.Glenn: [inaudible, both laugh]Zach: And he began his career as a communication and change management analyst at Towers Watson. Man. With all of that being said, Glenn, man, welcome to the show. How are you doing? [kids cheering sfx]Glenn: Thank you, thank you. I'm good, I'm good. How about yourself? Zach: Man, I'm doing really well. I'm excited to have you here. You know, we had to take some time, you know, but you back in town and we're having a conversation. I'm excited about it. So let's--you know, we did a little brief intro about you where I kind of gave, you know, your LinkedIn picture, but what else would you like to tell us about yourself?Glenn: I mean, I guess honestly you captured most of it in terms of, like, the bio and kind of what I'm working on at VMware. I mean, outside of that I'm an Ares, so I'm a hothead.Zach: I got you, I got you.Glenn: I like to ask the difficult questions, and I feel like anybody who has worked with me before would definitely tell you that I have a tendency to ask difficult questions, but also ask the questions that other people feel like they probably shouldn't ask or they don't want to ask, and I feel like I help keep people accountable, you know? So I think it's important to be that voice and to have that voice and to push the envelope a little bit. So hopefully I can disrupt for the betterment of others.Zach: Come on, now. Disrupt? I love that, man. So you said you're an Ares. So I'm a Virgo. Actually, you know, Beyonce and I have the same birthday. Glenn: I did not know that. I did know she was a Virgo though.Zach: I'm saying. So, you know, I'm out here as well. I'm trying to disrupt things as well. So okay, okay, okay, so you're a global diversity and inclusion program manager. What does that mean practically, and what prompted you to take this role at VMware?Glenn: Yeah. So I mean, quite frankly, I was looking for a role where I could have an impact, and I really--so a lot of my career has been in campus recruiting and diversity campus recruiting, right, and I really wanted to pivot from more of the acquisition side and the talent attraction into the, you know, development, the retention, promotion, engagement, et cetera, right, of underrepresented groups, and so I was looking for opportunities, and I was interviewing for a few, but quite frankly I wanted to stay in Atlanta, and the good thing about--one of the good things about the VMware role is it allowed me to stay in Atlanta, and I'm thankful for that. I'm always grateful, because I get to work in tech, I get to work at a pretty large, pretty well-known tech company, but I get to do it in Atlanta, and I don't think a lot of people can say that same thing. I think the other part of it is I was really looking to have a seat at the table, and I can honestly say that, you know, my manager who's a director and [my?] VP. Like, they want to know what I think, I mean, but they want to know what everybody else on the--what everybody on the team thinks, and so, like, that's important to me because I've been in places before where my voice didn't matter or it was overshadowed by people who were more senior or people in the business. I mean, you know, you've worked in personal services, so you definitely probably know what that's like. [Well?,] you've worked in personal services, so you know what that's like. And so I think, you know, just throughout my interview process it felt like the right fit for me for a number of reasons. And so yeah, that's what prompted me to join, and I think, you know, since joining, I feel like, you konw, my expectations have been managed well, but I think I have been set up for success and I'm actually doing the work that we talked about doing in the interview, which is good.Zach: That is good, man, 'cause, you know, sometimes it's like you get a job and you think--especially in these D&I roles, right? And I've had these conversations, like, with other folks on the podcast, right? We've talked to Jennifer Brown and we've talked to Amy Waninger. We've talked to other people, right? We've talked to even DeRay Mckesson, and we talk about how, like, these D&I spaces are--they're slowly becoming decolonized, but, like, there's still a lot of, like, work to do to, like, really get stronger representation in these spaces, right? And you end up thinking--you know, you're over here like, "Oh, snap, I got this job, and they're about to, you know, really put me at the seat of the table and give me a voice," and you turn around and you're talking about ["haha" sfx] Like, not. Joke's on you, you know what I'm saying? You don't even have no seat.Glenn: It's so [?] though, and I think, like, just given my personality, and--I mean, I attribute this to professional serv--like, I grew up in professional services, right? Like, from Towers Watson, from working at Accenture for over two years, from the BCG. I mean, those organizations move quickly, right, and they're all about, like, high-caliber work, high-quality work, quick turnarounds, and so I think coming to VMware and industry in general--industry is a bit slower, right? And so I think I have to manage my expectations around what I can get done, what we can done, what the business is ready for, and so I think I'm definitely learning those lessons, you know? And I'm still working to manage my own expectations. [laughs]Zach: That's real. No, no, no. That's real, and it's crazy--it's crazy, man, 'cause sometimes, like I said, it just takes time. I think there's a lot of--and I've had this conversation multiple times too, like, I think it's easy if you don't have, like, black and brown people, like, in these roles, like, it's easy to forget, like, the emotional labor that it takes to do this type of work, right? Like, it's not just like--Glenn: [?]Zach: Right? It's human. Like, you're dealing with human beings, and you're dealing with human beings that look like you, have similar stories to you, that you're really trying to impact, so I definitely get that, and managing expectations is always important. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. You know, D&I continues to be, like, an area where organizations are focused on, especially in tech, so what do you believe, right, has been the motivation for VMware to continue to expand their D&I office? Because, like, I feel as if--I don't know. Like, you know, we've had some research--we have whitepapers, you know, on our website, like--oh, by the way. Hey, y'all. Check us out, y'all. We got whitepapers. Like, don't play with us. [straight up sfx] Okay? We got whitepapers. [both laugh] And in our research, everybody knows that a common statistic is that $8 billion a year is being spent, and I would argue wasted, in D&I today and that we're not really seeing tangible results. And especially as you think about, like the economy as it stands today. Like, why do you think, in this point in time, VMware is still expanding this space?Glenn: Well, I feel like a lot of the times we hear about, like, "It's the right thing to do" and "We're doing it for the business," right? So I hear that a lot, and not--and not specifically at VMware, but just in general, and I say that to say I think those are the reasons we're doing it, right? Like, we're doing it because we genuinely believe, right, across the company, especially from a leadership perspective, that it's important and that specifically, like, we call our pods that I mentioned earlier, the power of difference communities--like, we believe the power of human difference allows us to be better, to develop better products, to build better products, to better serve customers, to be better partners, right? And then to innovate. So I think there's definitely a business reason behind it, but then I also genuinely feel like there are leaders who think it's the right thing to do. And I think it's interesting because--you know, like, there's the winning the hearts and minds of change, right? So I think you have to [hit?] people with the pathos for the people who, you know, they relate to that, but then you have to have, you know, the practicality in the business perspective for others as well. [?] The data had showed that people--like, once they connect emotionally to diversity and inclusion, they're better able to kind of buy into it as opposed to just connecting to the business. So I think we definitely we have some more of that, work to do, to continue to pull at people's heartstrings, but then also make it real for them so that they genuinely buy in ,and not just because it's the right thing to do from a business perspective but it's the right thing to do from a human perspective.Zach: That's a really good point, and I do think it's both and, right? I think organizations often fail when they try to do one or the other, because, like, the reality is some folks are just not gonna care, right? But then you got other folks who are like, "Okay, I'ma care as much as it benefits my bottom line, so if you can point to me, like, how this can benefit my bottom line, then I'm all for it," right? I think the challenge--the challenge that I think, something that has yet to be quantified, is, like, the amount of time organizations waste in, like, really calculating turnover. So, like, we know the turnover data is bad, like, in tech. But, like, those numbers have yet to really be fully published. Like, I don't think any one organization has really, like, really, really gone into, like, the comparative analytics on their turnover data, but, like, I think if really one was to look at those numbers alone, they'd be like, "Ayo, we gotta do a better job, 'cause, like, this is crazy." I mean, it's just over here like [chaching sfx] But, like, opposite. Like, in reverse, you know what I'm saying? Like, it would be like that sound, but, you know. [both laugh]Glenn: Like a whomp-whomp-whomp. [both laugh]Zach: Right? You know what I mean. And then over time, you know, organizations are so, like, monolithic. They're so white. They're so straight. They're so male. You know, I'm looking on my job board--I'm looking at the job board, I might see a job--let's just say, like, I'm a person of color, I'm on the job board--because I know that this place isn't inclusive--I'm looking at that job like ["i don't know who this man is" Keke sfx]. [Glenn laughs] You know, sorry to this man. I don't even recognize--man, listen, Glenn, I've been so excited to use this soundboard, man. I've got some new [?]--Glenn: I love that. Oh, my gosh. If you knew how many times I say that, like, in a week. "I'm sorry. I don't want to sound foolish."Zach: "I don't want to sound ridiculous. I do not know who this is." And so let me pivot, right? So you talked about the power of difference and these communities. I really want to--now, look, I'm not trying to have you spill any secret sauce out, you know what I'm saying, but I want to learn more about the strategy of these power of difference [communities] and really--frankly, I want to talk more about this offline too. Like, what's the strategy with these pods? Like, what are y'all trying to achieve? What is this looking like? Like, how did this come about, and what--practically speaking, like, how does it fit into y'all's D&I strategy?Glenn: Yeah. I mean, like, honestly [in our?] D&I strategy overall there are three kind of key pieces. There's the representation piece, where we talk a lot about increasing representation and focusing specifically on underrepresented minorities and women, and what I often tell people is just because we're--just because we're saying we're focusing on does not mean--it doesn't mean that we aren't also working to increase representation of other underrepresented groups, and I say that because I really think it's important for people to know that we're doing both. So it's a yes and, and again, these things are not mutually exclusive. The other part of it is building a culture of inclusion, right? So focusing on culture and what that really means, and then the third piece is thought leadership. So how are we tapping into podcasts like this to let people know that "Okay, VMware is an inclusive place to work," and we're working to make it an even more inclusive place to work, right? And then how are we sharing what we're doing and the impact of the diversity and the inclusion that is having on the business? So I say all of that to say our pods, the power of difference communities, are really our ERGs, right? So employee resource groups or business resource groups, and I think we are at a place where we are really trying to take those ERGs, known as pods, to be more BRGs, right? So how are they [?] business? Meaning how are the programs and the initiatives and the sponsorships and things like that contributing to the business? Whether that be in terms of professional development, of underrepresented groups, so that they develop and have talent moves and move into different roles and are contributing more to the business, whether that means we are attending various recruiting conferences and thinking about building pipelines in STEM and in tech of underrepresented groups, whether that be, you know, high school, college, what have you, you know, experienced professionals, or is that we're partnering with other non-profits in the space to, like, you know, talk about what we're doing and help other companies and partner with other companies? And then--or, you know, like, a lot of companies, especially companies who are B to C, right? So we think about, like, big consumer goods or just any product that sells products directly to consumers, they think a lot about and have a lot of conversations about "How do our products reflect our consumers?" Right? So if you think about some of the large consumer goods or CPGs or those companies, they're really thinking about those things, and so I think for us it's "How are we making sure that we're getting the opinions of our employees who are underrepresented or in underrepresented groups, and how are we leveraging that thought leadership, that knowledge, that know-how, to further develop relationships with our customers to build better products to innovate, right? And so I think ideally we want to get our pods to a place where we're doing more of those things.Zach: That's a really exciting vision, right? Like, so you're thinking--so basically these pods, I mean, they're almost like little--I mean, they're genuinely--if effectively strategized around and activated effectively--are real difference makers, and you have them basically stratified across the business. That's pretty exciting, man.Glenn: Right, right, right. Yeah, and I think--you know, I think it's easier for people in general to make that connection when you're walking into, like, a grocery store and you're picking up a product on a shelf and thinking, "How are people who look like me or are like me thinking about buying this product or consuming this product?" And so for us it's different because, again, we're B to B, and we have to think about it differently. So I do think it's--I do think it's ambitious, but I think it can be done, especially when you think about relationships and building relationships and, then again, innovating.Zach: 100%. Okay, so what are you most excited about when it comes to your role and VMware in 2020?Glenn: That's a good question. I think what I'm really most interested in is--so quite frankly we have--and this is public knowledge--so we have closed the acquisition of Carbon Black, and we are working to close the acquisition of Pivotal, so as a result of that our diversity and inclusion team is gonna be growing, and so I think what I'm--what I'm looking forward to is the growth of our team, which means 1. we can do more, and I think also I'm looking forward to the opportunity to partner more with the business and be more of a diversity business partner. So a lot of tech companies have started developing or creating these diversity business partner roles that sit in the business and/or [audio cut] plans that they then work with the business to execute those plans, right? So I think you can think about it from, like--there's a D&I engagement piece, which is around the pods, and then there's, like, the education piece around unconscious bias and how we--how are we educating our managers, our leaders, our employees, around inclusion and topics like privilege and microaggressions and things like that, right? And then there's sitting in the business and working with business leaders and managers to develop plans to actually move the needle, right, in a different way than on the--you know, the education and the engagement, that side. So I think that's what I'm looking for, to have an opportunity to really partner more closely with the business in 2020 as a result of our team growing.Zach: My goodness gracious. I gotta give you a Flex bomb for all that though. That sounds incredible. [Flex bomb sfx] That sounds awesome, yeah. So I was trying to play the "what it do, baby" before, but it was just too loud, so I'm gonna go ahead and do it right now based off of the fact that what you just said is incredible. [Kawhi "what it do baby" sfx] And shout-out to your acquisition as well. [both laugh]Glenn: Right.Zach: Okay, okay, okay. So, you know, you're talking about what you've been doing at VMware, you're talking about some of the strategic visioning around the pods. Again, it does sound really ambitious, but, like, I don't think--when I say ambitious... sometimes people say ambitious and they're really just hating, right? It's kind of like, "It sounds a bit ambitious, don't you think?" [both laugh] But I mean it's ambitious like, "Wow, this is very positive." Like, this is incredible, and I'm really excited for what y'all are trying to drive. This is my question though. What advice would you have for organizations really at the beginning of their D&I journeys, right? Like, maybe they don't even have ERGs or BRGs. And then what have been the lessons learned for you? That's kind of, like, the B part to that question.Glenn: Yeah. So I think, like, advice, I think for companies who are just starting, I don't know, I think it's like--I don't know. I always go back to, like, the change management, right, part of it, right? So, like, thinking about how are you really pulling in leaders, how are you having it--how are you having your efforts so that they are leader-led, right, and it really sits in the business and leaders are held accountable for. So I think that accountability is super important. And not just leaders, right? So it's like--if VPs and above are the only people who are held accountable, then what happens to other people who are directors, [?], et cetera, who lead teams and [audio cut] they're not held accountable? So I think accountability is big, and I think for companies who are just starting out in general, like, just starting out the company by having an inclusive culture and kind of ingraining that into people and educating people from the time that they join the company, but even before they join the company, like, through the onboarding and through the talent acquisition piece, right? So I think that's the advice I would have, and then really just kind of walk the talk, right? Because I'm one of those people--I really, really value honesty, and I think I'm really good at sensing BS, right? A lot of us are, and I think we know [someone, audio cut] is being honest with us and when they're just kind of, like, giving us the "Well, this is what we're working on," and it's like, "Mm, that's not really what you're working on. Just be honest with me," right? If you have room to grow, say, you know, "These are the two things we're doing. However, we need to be doing these five, and we're working on it," right? Like, I'd rather somebody tell me that than to say, "Oh, well, we have these amazing initiatives," and it's like "Mm, do you really have those initiatives or are you just talking about it and is it just lip service?" So that's my advice. And I think--in terms of, like, lessons learned for me personally, we talk a lot about, like, people of color and underrepresented minorities and black and brown people, right, in corporate America, but, like, I'm not--yes, I'm a black man at VMware, but I'm not just a black man. Like, I'm a gay black man at VMware who is a part of a global team that is not just thinking about bringing in and developing and retaining and promoting more black and brown people, but we're thinking about underrepresented groups more broadly and thinking about making VMware a place where everyone can come and thrive and, I like to say, be safe, seen and connected, or feel safe, seen and connected, right? So I say that to say that a lot of the things that I've learned personally [audio cuts]--I advocate for people who don't look like me or who don't--or who I don't identify with from a, you know, race, ethnic background or other parts of my identity, right? And it's just really interesting because I think by being vulnerable and by being empathetic, I am really able to do that. But it's just interesting how, you know, I can be on a call with people who have a completely different identity than me, but I'm advocating for them. And so I'll give you a real example. A lot of people don't know about the model minority myth, right? So I've read this book by Ijeoma Olu called "So You Want to Talk About Race." I love the book. It's amazing. I would completely, like, totally recommend it. And she has a chapter where she talks about the [model minority myth,] and I think it's important because a lot of people--what the model minority myth is, and, you know, I'm not, like, speaking verbatim here, but it's really around the fact that people think about those who are Asian-American or Asian as the model minority, and they have all of these stereotypes about Asians to include--like, they're super smart. They're really--like, you know, they want to be in, like, STEM. They're really good at math. Like, those kinds of things. A lot of people might think they have a lot of money, but that's not the case. Like, when you look at the data, especially of some Asian-American or Asian cultures, that's just not the case. Like, the degrees or the degree attainment from some of the Asian cultures, those numbers are significantly less than Hispanic/Latinx or African-American and black cultures and black identities, right? So I think that's one of those things, by me just kind of educating myself, reading that book, and then I was on a call, and I literally had to stop someone and say, "Well, you know, actually, the model minority, this is what it is, this is why it exists, and this is why we need an Asian at VMware's power of difference community." It's important because there are also people in this community who aren't rich, who aren't, you know, science, math, STEM, et cetera, majors, and who didn't come from a home where both of their parents were doctors, lawyers, you know, computer scientists, et cetera, and that's what a lot of [audio cuts]--for me and having the opportunity to really advocate for people who aren't like me.Zach: Man, I love that, and you're 100% right. So I'm just gonna start at the top of what you said. So you were talking about the fact that you're not just one thing, right, like, you're not just one identity, and I think a lot of times, like, we really do fail to be, like, intersectional in our D&I work, and, I mean, we just had Lionel Lee, who is a diversity leader over at the Zillow Group, and we were talking about the fact that, like, when you look at a lot of work today in these D&I spaces, they're mostly, like, focused on gender. So, like, even the fact that, like, we're talking about race and gender to me is a win, because a lot of times we'll say things like--we'll kind of dismiss race and then say things like "diversity of thought" or just other--like, just generalized things, but I think you're absolutely right, especially when it comes to the LGBTQ space, because--Glenn: Exactly.Zach: This is what I've learned. So I'm a cishet black dude, right? And as I've been having conversations--and this was, like, earlier, like, last season. We were talking to Janet Pope, who is the diversity and inclusion leader over at Capgemini, and we were talking about how, like, it's important to make sure that you're being intersectional with the LGBTQ spaces, because if you're not, those spaces can end up being, like, largely white, and, like, you end up missing out on a lot of different black and brown experiences within that space.Glenn: You're so right. I mean, like, think about--again, like, going back to a gay black man who works in tech, like, there's not a lot of us, right? Especially when you think about the LGBTQ community in general. So I was at the Pride parade in Atlanta for the first time, and, I mean, it was just interesting for me to, like, think about being the only in a place where there are a lot of people like me, right? So whether there were LGBTQ or allies or what have you, I was still the only black man there, right? Like, and so--and when I say there, I mean specifically with the company who came out to the parade. Like, I'm sure there are others there. There may or may not be, so I don't want to falsely assume, but it was just interesting again, like, looking around and being like, "Okay, Glenn, you're still the only in this group of people who are like you because of intersectionality," right? And I think lately there has been a lot of conversation around intersectionality in terms of, you know, you looking at women of color, specifically black women, and looking at Asian women, for example, and then also again, from an LGBTQ perspective, there has been a ton of conversation lately around the importance of intersectionality, and I was telling the team--because last week, like, one of the reasons we had to postpone this was because I was at Out and Equal, which is an LGBTQ workplace summit. It's, like, a huge--it was amazing. I loved it, and I think there was this undercurrent of people getting on stage and really being advocates and allies and talking about how trans women of color are being murdered and no one is doing anything about it. I don't think enough people are having those conversations. So it will be interesting to see the shift in how people are having more conversations, but then also taking action over the next few years.Zach: Man, this has just been a super dope conversation, man. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to join us. Before we let you go, any shout-outs? Parting words?Glenn: [laughs] Shout-outs and parting words? Hm. I don't know. Like, honestly, in all seriousness, I would encourage people to read that book - "So You Want To Talk About Race" by Ijeoma Oluo. Like, I think everybody should read it, no matter how you identify, because, like, again, going back to, like, a lesson learned, like, I literally--I mean, of course I knew I had privilege. Like, I'm able-bodied. I'm educated. I went to a really good school. Like, I've had the opportunity to go to really great schools, you know, even in middle and high school, and so I reached out to one of my friends and I was like, "Girl, we got privilege," and, you know, we were having a conversation about it, right? So, like, even though you might be an underrepresented minority or a member of an underrepresented group, I think just realizing those things and being self-aware are helpful. So I would encourage people to read that book and just start to have conversations with people who are not like you to increase your understanding.Zach: Y'all... my goodness, y'all. I just--you know what, man? I gotta--let me see here. Let's see here. What are we gonna do, man? We gotta--I just gotta give a [raucous applause sfx] I gotta thank you, man. I just gotta let you know, bro, 'cause I'ma tell you the truth, man. Sometimes, you know, I have some of these conversations with some of these D&I leaders, and they--you know, they really--and not on Living Corporate though. I make moves, so I talk to people, right? Let me tell you, they'll be talking to me, and in the back of my mind I'm over here like [fraud sfx, Glenn laughs]--it's a fraud. Glenn: Yeah.Zach: But I appreciate you being authentic [and] taking the time to, like, really share a bit, right? Not just about VMware, but about yourself. So yeah, man, so blessings to you, and that does it for us, y'all, on Living Corporate, you know? You know what we do, man. We post this stuff, like, three times a week. We've got these regular interviews, then we've got Tristan's Tips, and then we've got The Link Up with Latesha, all really to amplify black and brown voices at work. Make sure you check us out on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, on Instagram @LivingCorporate, and then, you know, just Google us, you know what I'm saying? We out here, right? Like, we--you know, Glenn, like, we're really making moves, man. We got livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net, you know? Livingcorporate... what else? We've got pretty much all of the livingcorporates except livingcorporate.com. Now, livingcorporate.com is owned by, like, Australia, right? So I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that one, but we also have living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com. So just check us out. We out here. Let's see here. What else? Housekeeping, housekeeping. Shout-out to Ellen, who was on mute this entire time, but Ellen was here to make sure that I didn't get Glenn or VMware sued, so shout-out to you, Ellen, and yeah. This has been Zach. You've been listening to Glenn Newman, mover, shaker, D&I leader at VMware. 'Til next time, y'all. Peace.

On the twelfth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, throws out some tips, tricks, and strategies for making your side hustle your full-time hustle. She also talks a bit about some of the tools and programs she utilizes that help maximize her efficiency at work.Check out the book Latesha mentioned, The E-Myth Revisited, on Amazon!Below is a list of programs and services that Latesha herself uses to run her business:Scheduling: CalendlyCRM: DubsadoTask Management: TrelloClient Storage: G SuiteMarketing: Canva, CreativeMarketAccounting: PayPal, Bench AccountingFind out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBVisit our website!TRANSCRIPTLatesha: Today we are talking about making your side hustle your full-time hustle. I know so many entrepreneurs who are hustling on the side and working a full-time job but their goal is to be their own boss. Now, there are some that like doing both the side hustle and the full-time hustle, and to be honest that's what I thought I was going to do. It didn't happen like that. A part of me being able to take my side hustle and make it a full-time hustle was a lot of crying [laughs] and praying and strategizing and believing. I would say that believing, for me, was the hardest thing, and then once I actually really started to believe in myself, in my business and what I was doing, and I was starting to operate at a higher level, that really changed the mold for me. So I thought this would be a cool topic to talk about. A lot of my coaching clients actually have side businesses or are looking to transition from a side hustle to a full-time hustle. I also coach entrepreneurs, and so, you know, I know that I speak mostly on career development and I'm big on career empowerment, career ownership, but I love talking about entrepreneurship, and I thought "Why not start to talk a little bit about business, building a business?" I know some of you all are listening to this podcast where, yes, you are working a corporate job, but you also have your business on the side. I've been there, and I know how that felt, and I just thought I would come on here and share with you all my story of how I was able to turn my side hustle into a full-time hustle, and then just kind of throw out some tips and tricks and strategies that you can start to implement if you do have that side hustle and your goal is to turn it into a full-time hustle. So just to tell you all a little bit about my story - I honestly started my business as a hobby as a career coach. It was something that I was passionate about doing, and the reason or how it came about was that when I was in college I had five internships. I grew up in a single-parent household, so we didn't have a lot of money, so I came to college with a goal in mind that I was going to work my butt off and I was going to take advantage of every single opportunity because I didn't really feel that I had that safety net. There was--for me at least there was no going back home, and so I got really involved on campus [and] had a lot of internships. I went straight into grad school and had a job offer waiting for me post-grad school, so, you know, from I guess the outside looking in, a lot of folks kind of looked at me and said, "Okay, this chick kind of knows what she's doing. She has this internship. She has a job offer, school, everything." Then I would start to get questions. [laughs] Once people kind of caught on to just what I had started to--the brand, I guess... I didn't even know I was building a brand, but the brand that I was building, the reputation I was building for myself, and people started coming to me for career advice. They started coming to me for assistance with getting into graduate school, with help with getting a job, so I started looking at resumes, giving advice, and I realized that this was something that I could monetize, and I said, "All right, the next person to ask me for help, boom, charging them." [laughs] So that's how my business started. It started as a hobby, a passion. I realized I could monetize it, and so I did. Now I've learned so much along the way in terms of getting the skills and the trainings and the experience, the lessons, and just expanding my own skill set or diversifying my own skill set to be able to run a business. You know, those were thing that I of course had to be extremely intentional about as I was building my business. If I could recommend one book to anyone that is really thinking about entrepreneurship and taking that thing all the way, The E-Myth Revisited. For me, it was such a game-changing read, such a game-changing book, because it talks about how a lot of us may start businesses based on a hobby, based on a passion, based on just doing something, and we realize "Oh, this is something that I could monetize," but you don't really learn the fundamentals of actually growing a business, of running a business, and so that book really breaks it down on how to actually do that, how to scale your business, how to really run your business as the CEO that you are. Now, I mean, there are many people as well that don't just start businesses based off of a passion or a hobby. You know, some folks are extremely intentional about solving a business need or solving a business problem, but The E-Myth, such a really great read, you know? We don't learn a lot about entrepreneurship, really nothing at all about entrepreneurship in college, so it is important to think about all of the different skills that are needed to run a business. So kind of going back to, you know, my story, that's how I started my business. Over the last 4.5 years, we've worked with close to 900 professionals in a variety of industries. Business has grown from just a team of one, me, [laughs] to a team of five. Everyone on my team are resume writers, career coaches. I have an assistant. I have someone that helps with business development as well, and, you know, I have so many clients that I've coached over--not just domestically, but also overseas, in Paris, in France--or Paris, France, [laughs] and in Ghana, in Canada, and all over, you know, the U.S. And so in terms of my revenue goals, you know, I have been able to--huge accomplishment on my end, but to exceed six figures last month and, you know, still the goal for my business--I'm being extremely transparent at this moment--the goal for my business is to hit 150K. You know, could I do more? Yeah, but I think that's pretty good, you know? Fourth, fifth year, you know, getting into it. My goal next year is to focus on profit and then cutting as many expenses as possible. Anyways, going back to the first thing that I really had to adjust as I was really thinking about taking this thing all the way in terms of my business. First thing was mindset. It was--you have to think about it in terms of "Is this something I really want to commit to? Am I ready to be fully committed to doing this?" You have to be sure. You know, this really isn't a trial-and-error thing, meaning going from just side hustle to full time is--you know, you want to be pretty sure about it if you are anything like me. Now, I've had friends that have just taken the leap. They've taken the jump. [laughs] But I was really strategic, and I had a plan in place. I am a planner. I've always liked to kind of be in control of my future and, you know, I don't like surprises. [laughs] So I had a plan in place. For me, I knew this was something I had to be fully committed to, and understand that, you know, going from--I think the biggest change for me going from a side hustler to a full-time hustler is that, you know, your lifestyle fundamentally changes. Everything about your lifestyle changes. When you are in charge of yourself, you are in charge of your schedule. You have to decide when you work, where you work, who you want to work with and who you meet with. There's also a lot of decision fatigue that goes into entrepreneurship, so that's something to think about. It takes a lot of energy to run a business, not just from, you know--let's say you are someone that is in, you know, marketing, right? You know, you are developing marketing materials. You may be even doing marketing strategy or SEO strategy for a company, you know? They are likely--maybe you're doing it in-house for a company, or maybe you are working with a company that serves different clients. You know, either way, the company has those processes, systems, tools in place for you to get the work done, or even if you are, you know, managing communication with different teams and groups and clients, you know, these things are being managed by your company. When you are out on your own, there is no middleman, you know? You have to think through those processes and getting all of that in order in terms of dealing with clients, you know? Dealing with, you know, your team. And as an entrepreneur, you're not just doing that work anymore that you were doing with said company. I mean, you are doing--you are the operations person. You are HR. [laughs] You are legal. You are finance. You are customer service, you know? You are the communications person. I mean, of course you will most definitely want to for sure get a lawyer or an attorney, and also make sure you get an accountant, for sure, but there are times where you will need to--you have to know all of the things that are going on with your business until you get to a point where you are starting to hire talent to take on some of that work for you. So what I'm saying there is it takes a lot of energy, maybe a different level of energy, a different level of discipline and motivation, and also self-accountability that goes into entrepreneurship. Now, when you get to a point where you have decided--maybe you started your business on the side [and] you're getting it to a place where you have steady income coming in and you're really thinking about leaving your current workplace. One thing that I want, you know, you all to think about if this is you is what more can you milk from your current job? [laughs] What I mean by that is what are those relationships that you need to nurture, clients maybe you need to make sure you are connecting with again? What are those skills that you want to develop? What about the networking? Who's in your network, or who can you get closer to in your network based on where you are or the access that you have? Just what are those different opportunities? What more do you need from your job? I really was--so when I left corporate, I was actually in a recruiting role, and I managed recruiting for five offices for a public accounting firm up and down the East Coast, and I absolutely loved that job. I thought recruiting was a wonderful field to be in. It was fast-paced. There was a lot of travel, which I loved. I was able to work with a lot of young professionals and give career advice, and I really learned how--how 1. a company actually hires and develops and recruits and trains talent. I had a say so in it, and I was able to help drive strategy in terms of not only how they got talent but how the organization was able to get diverse talent. So I loved that job because I was able to add a lot of value and be a thought leader there, but I was also thinking about "What do I need to get out of my company? What do I need to get out of this job that will make me a better entrepreneur?" You know, more of an expert for my clients? And so I started, you know, asking to attend more conferences, one for networking, but also to develop more skills just in terms of the different sessions that were being offered at the conferences I was going to. Like, one conference I went to in Chicago was a women's conference, and there was a session on public speaking, which was great, because I wanted to do more public speaking. My goal was to become--to brand myself as a speaker. And with that being said, another opportunity for me was to do as many speaking engagements as possible. And so, you know, before I left, whenever a team member needed a speaker for a recruiting event, I always raised my hand to go. So I was able to go to different universities and, you know, do speaking engagements on, you know, any type of career development topic that they wanted the firm to offer, but I also kind of used that under my speaking toolkit and said "Hey, I was in front of this audience," right? And I was kind of building up my speaking brand as much as I could. So that's something to think about. What more can you milk from your current job or just from your current situation? And then I have three things to think about in terms of getting very serious about being more efficient in your business. I'll go ahead and name those three. The three areas are time management, fiscal management, and process management. So starting with time management. You will want to determine how much time you want to spend working in your business versus working in your day job, so keep in mind that you have family responsibilities, and just think about the way your schedule is now, whether it's family obligations, you know, work obligations, volunteer obligations, you really have to get tight with your schedule and know how much time you want to be working in your business, working your day job, and also working on your business, 'cause working in your business and on your business is different. So then in terms of--another piece under time management would be service, products, and offerings. How much time is it taking you to actually do or to put out the offer or to provide that service, you know, that you are monetizing your business off of? You know, for example, you know, thinking about building a course. I did a salary negotiation course last month on--well, I already said it - salary negotiation. But even though that webinar itself was only two hours long--it was about an hour and 45 minutes--whoo, y'all, when I tell you - there's so many steps that go into actually building out a course, and that I learned. So not only did I have to, you know, create the course, I had to create the outline, you know, figure out what the goals were. What did I want? And thinking about what I wanted my audience to walk away with. With all of that being said, you know, building out the outline, thinking about--doing the research, you know? Making sure I'm pulling in industry and relevant data to back my support, to back my findings, you know? Putting it into a PowerPoint or--I didn't use PowerPoint, I used Canva, but--putting it into a presentation template, putting together a workbook. You know, you have the copy that has to go out, and you have to send that out to your audience. So there's so many different steps, and sometimes we don't take into account every single step and, you know, every single moment we're spending to get these things done. So time management. Next is fiscal management, and this is the process that I kind of--that I do actually walk my coaching clients through for those that are looking to launch businesses or thinking about--or looking to scale their business. So fiscal management is the second one. You have to have revenue goals. You have to have revenue goals for your business. It's so key, especially if you're thinking about taking it from a side hustle to a full-time hustle. You know, that's nothing to play with. You want to make sure that you are continuing to bring in money and revenue for your business, so it is important to set some revenue goals, okay? And don't sell yourself short, you know? Also take into account the lifestyle that you want, that you are living, and, you know, one thing that I did is I actually wrote out a budget. I really thought about--or not thought about, but I outlined, you know, my expenses, how much money I am spending on bills, but not only fixed expenses but also variable expenses - food, shopping, entertainment, nails, hair. You know, as a woman, those things matter. We want to look cute. We can't be, you know, taking a discount on [laughs] on that, and so I've really had to think through "How much money do I need to be bringing in each month to keep the lifestyle that I want to live?" I was fully prepared to, you know, be okay with living less, you know, or spending less if I had to--maybe not getting my nails done for a bit, which I actually did stop doing for quite some time. But, you know, other things like that. You may have to make sacrifices, but either way you have to know those numbers. Know how much does it cost for you to live the lifestyle that will make you happy. Happiness is important. And then based on that, you will need to have revenue goals so you can bring in enough to support your lifestyle, right? Especially if you have, you know, a family and children, you will need more money than someone that is single. So you have your revenue goals. You will want to also break those down by services or the products that you are offering, so if your revenue goal is $10,000 and you have something that is--a product that is, you know, $100, you need to make sure that quantity that you're selling is 100, you know? So it's important to think about your revenue goals, break it down by service or products that you are offering, you know? Or maybe you have a multitude of different service offerings or different products, but break your revenue goals by each thing that you are offering. How many customers do you need to be bringing in for that said service or product? That way you also know how you need to be spending your effort in terms of marketing, where you should be marketing or who you should be marketing to. So the first was time management, second was fiscal management, and the third brings us to process management. You have to have systems and tools in order to scale your business. So I know I've mentioned that a couple of times, scaling your business, scaling your business, and some may say, "Well, what does that mean?" So scaling your business--I'm just going to read a definition that I found online, but it means setting the stage to enable and support growth in your company. It means having the ability to grow without being hampered. It requires planning, some funding, and the right system, staff, processes, technology, and partners. When companies scale, they add revenue at a faster rate than they take on new costs. A company that is scaling may gain 50,000 in new revenue, from which they spent only 5,000 on marketing automation tools, versus hiring someone and paying them a $50,000 salary to actually come in and do the work. So it basically means making sure you are operating at your most efficient capacity and capabilities. Scaling is something that is extremely important, especially if you are a company of one, you know? And maybe you don't have a large team in place. So it's important to think through how can you scale or grow your business, because if you are a company of one, you can't do it all. You may need to automate, put those systems in place and tools in place so that way you can get your time back and be able to spend it a little bit more efficiently. So anyways, when it comes to process management, you have to have systems and tools in order from start to finish. I recommend my clients actually write out the steps, write out the steps of an initial contact. So when a client is initially interested in working with you and they want to work with you, where do they go? What do they fill out? What do they complete? How do they get in touch with you? And having a process from the initial contact all the way to, you know, closing the deal or making that sale, providing the service, and then, you know, if there's any follow-up or things of that nature that need to happen post-providing that service, you want to make sure that you have all of those steps in order and think about what are the things that you may be doing over and over and over again that are a little bit recurring that maybe you can--that's something you can automate? What are some canned emails that you are--what are those emails that you are sending over and over again to your clients? So creating some canned emails. I think about, you know, the processes and how can I be more efficient in my business all of the time, and with process management, or for the systems I used, I have a task management tool I use called Trello. It's great. It helps me and my team really stay organized. Sometimes we work with up to 15 clients for, you know, the resume work that we do, and then from, you know, my agency, but then for the one-on-one coaching that I do where I take on about 15 clients, no more than 15 clients at a time, I have to stay organized with that. So Trello [for] task management. I use Dubsado for my CRM. Love, love, love my CRM. And then Google Drive. I am in Gmail. You know, [laughs] Google anything. Google Forms. I--listen... Google. Hey, Google, [laughs] put me on the team. But no, seriously, I use Google for everything. Those are the main systems that I use. The last thing I will say is that once you do make the leap, don't jump right into it. Take a break if you can. You know, take some time off from being in that corporate setting so you can just sit back and--I don't want to say sit back and relax, but just so you can take a breather, you know? We have the rest of our lives to work. You may feel like you want to jump right into it, but you definitely will want to take a break just to kind of get your mind in order and get it clear so that you can be more creative. The last thing that I'll say is make sure you also set some goals. 30-day, 60-day, 90-day goals at the minimum for your business. Be very intentional with that. How many? How much money do you want to work? Of course those revenue goals. How many clients do you want to bring in? Who do you want to--you know, where do you want to spend your money? You know, just being intentional about that and setting some goals. So I hope this was helpful. Like I said, this was all about just entrepreneurship, pursuing your full-time hustle or making your side hustle your full-time hustle. Hopefully you found this helpful. If you want to be your own boss, let me know. If you have questions about entrepreneurship, let me know. I'm happy to really just start exploring more and talking more about entrepreneurship as well as we continue to talk about career development. So that is all I have today for you all on The Link Up with Latesha. You can find me on social media, @Latesha_Byrd, and I will talk to you guys next time. Bye.  

On the thirty-sixth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield covers three common mistakes you might be making that could be holding up your job search. Many of us apply to dozens upon dozens of jobs only to find ourselves still without an offer - be sure to adapt these points of advice into your job search strategy to help improve your chances!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!Visit our website!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y'all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week we’re going to discuss a few things that might be holding up your job search.Have you ever been or are you currently feeling stuck in your job search? Many of us apply to dozens upon dozens of jobs only to find ourselves still without an offer. Well there are 3 common mistakes that you might be making that could be the reason why you employers aren’t calling.The first thing is that you’re not clear on what you want. With the name of the game being tailoring, you have to be pretty clear on what you’re looking for. You can’t just take the same resume you’ve been adding to since college and send it to hundreds of jobs. That type of resume spamming very rarely ends in landing a role. On the flip side, if you narrow down what type of job you want, you can tailor your resume, brand yourself on LinkedIn, and ensure you’re communicating exactly what you’re seeking while networking.The next thing is that you’re applying to jobs you don’t want. Believe me I get it. Sometimes the job search is so rough and you just need a win so you start applying to jobs you don’t want to do. Odd are, if you know that, eventually the hiring manager will too. The last thing is that you aren’t being proactive. You’ve probably heard that the best time to find a job is when you don’t need one. While it’s cliché, it’s also quite true. Making connections and finding the right opportunity is easier when you don’t absolutely need it. You’re free to take your time to build relationships and vet out opportunities rather than making blind requests and taking positions that aren’t in alignment with what you want to do.A job search without a strategy is like throwing a dart with your eyes closed, sometimes you might get a bullseye but most of the time you’re just hoping for one. If you want to land a great role, you have you’re going to have put some action behind that hope.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach has the pleasure of chatting with Brittani Hunter, founder and CEO of The Mogul Millennial, and they discuss how to go about effectively using your voice at work. They also talk about The Mogul Millennial platform in general, what she's looking forward to in the future, and what initially led her to its creation. Connect with Brittani on Twitter and Instagram!Check out The Mogul Millennial website and follow them on Twitter and Instagram!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and again, look, y'all know what we do. We have incredible guests all of the time. Now, this guest is pretty interesting, because, you know, as I've been--as we. Shout-out to Ade, shout-out to Sheneisha, shout-out to Tiffany, shout-out to Tara, shout-out to Taylor, shout-out to Tristan, you know what I'm saying? These are all sounding like random names, but these are all people that actually I work with on Living Corporate. Shout-out to Amy, okay? I see you. We have all--as we continue to really build out Living Corporate, folks, there's one name that continues to come up. Like, "Have you talked to this person? Have you talked to this person? Have you talked to this person?" And I'm like, "Yes, I have. Yes, we've made a connection. Yes, we still need to interview. Yes, but I do know who that is," and it is this individual, and this person is a LinkedIn Top Voice. They're an entrepreneur. They're a writer. They're an educator. They're a public speaker. They're a mover. They're a shaker, you know what I'm saying? They're a snatcher of edges, you know what I'm saying? They out here is my point, and this person is Brittani Hunter. Brittani, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Brittani: I'm doing really good. Thanks for having me.Zach: No, no, no. Thank you for actually being on the show. In fact, let me go ahead and just--just a very modest, you know what I'm saying, cheer, just to welcome you, you know what I'm saying? [cheers sfx] Nothing too crazy. Just something to kind of get us started. For those of us who don't know you--I know I kind of gave a little bit, but would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Brittani: Yeah. So like you mentioned earlier, I'm an entrepreneur and also a LinkedIn Top Voice. I am also a proud HBCU grad, so if you went to PVAMU, shout-out to you. I am based here in Texas, Dallas to be exact, and I've been in the entrepreneur space for about 3.5 years, but full-time since January of this year. So January of 2019.Zach: Okay, now, wait, you're not gonna shout-out your HBCU?Brittani: I did. You didn't hear me? Prairie View A&M University. So PVAMU. ["ow" sfx]Brittani: [laughs] Yeah. It's the best HBCU in my opinion, so yeah, shout-out to you if you are a PV grad as well. Zach: Shout-out to the HBCUs. It's so funny, 'cause, you know, no one ever goes, "Shout-out to the PWIs!" But, you know, it's cool. Shout-out to education, and definitely shout-out to HBCUs. My dad went to Jackson State, and my mom [was Miss?] Tougaloo back in the day, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I came from good stock is what I'm trying to say. [jokingly] You're not the only person out here flexing in your complexion, that's all. Okay, so look, today we're talking about using your voice effectively. You talked about being a LinkedIn Top Voice. First of all, what does it mean to be a LinkedIn Top Voice?Brittani: So every year, LinkedIn, they'll select people that currently use the LinkedIn platform--hence the name LinkedIn Top Voice--and what it is is people that they recognize that are making an impact through the platform, and so an impact on the platform through their content. So yeah, to become a LinkedIn Top Voice essentially means that you're recognized as someone who has influence and a heavy impact on the users, on the thousands and millions of users that are on LinkedIn.Zach: Let's talk about you being selected. Like, what did that process look like?Brittani: It was actually a surprise. So I was literally at my old 9-to-5, um, not doing work, checking my personal email on my phone, and I saw that I had an email from one of the editors. And so LinkedIn has several editors that specifically focus on different subjects, and so the editor reached out and was pretty much saying that they love all of my content, that they, you know, on the back end they've been seeing how much engagement and all the high impressions that my content has been getting, whether that was my blog content--'cause, you know, LinkedIn has the publishing platform that you can publish blogs on. So whether it was that or just my normal, you know, short-form or long-form posts, and they were wanting to see if I was interested in being a part of their LinkedIn Top Voice selection. And so it was pretty much--that was really it. They required for me to write a post, so once they released the list of all of the LinkedIn Top Voices in the different categories--and by the way, I was selected in the category for Management and Culture. So yeah, once they released the article with everybody that was selected, they also released a series of articles from each LinkedIn Top Voice that was selected.Zach: That's really, really cool. You know, what's really interesting about what you shared is that, you know, you said you weren't even expecting it. You were just doing what you were doing, and then it just happened, right?Brittani: Yeah. A lot of people think that there is, like, some type of formal application or if you, like, reach out to someone that works at LinkedIn that you can get it, but it doesn't work like that. If you just keep doing what you're doing and just be focused on--and you're just, like, focused on actually putting out great content, then you'll be noticed, and if you're lucky they'll select you as a Top Voice.Zach: You know what? I just--I just think it's really incredible, and like I said from the top, everybody that I talk to, as I've been talking about Living Corporate, they're like, "You know, you really need to talk to--have you talked to anybody from The Mogul Millennial?" And I'm like... but it's just been, like, an ongoing conversation, and, you know, since then, and really frankly to this day, I'm just really excited that we were able to make this connection, you know what I mean? [to this day sfx]Brittani: Yeah. [laughs] I love the soundbites. I love it, I love it. Zach: No, I appreciate. So look, on your platform you share real talk, right? So the latest piece that I personally read was about black leadership at Fortune 500 companies being at its lowest, yet black celebrity partnerships are booming--and it's so interesting because, at the time of this recording, of this podcast, you know, Jay-Z just announced that partnership that he has with the NFL for the social justice movement thing. Anyway, in it you assert that while exploring the direct and subtle implications of that fact, right? So basically you go into it, right? A lot of your pieces do this, where you have, like, this fairly, like, strong initial statement, and then you really go into the nuances and the implications of whatever you stated, right? As black creatives who are focused on content centered around business, I think there's a line we have to decide when we're going to, like, not cross, right? Like, and show how honest or raw that we're being. What has that journey looked like for you specifically and how you've balanced, like, discomforting truths with managing a brand that extends far beyond your family and close friends?Brittani: Yeah. So I think, for me, what I just try to, like, you know, work at towards every day is just, like, living my truth. When you're not living your truth, you know, you're the one that's mostly impacted, and so whether that was--you know, whether that's me right now as an entrepreneur or me back when I was working the traditional 9-to-5 in the workplace, I'm not going to downplay, you know, what I think or try to sugarcoat, like, my thoughts and my feelings because of someone else, and so I think it's important that when we speak on our truths it also empowers other people to do the same. So specifically through Mogul Millennial, I like to have those types of conversations and so that way, you know, the issue at hand isn't ignored or it's not--you know, it's not watered down.Zach: And so how do you feel like that philosophy could be applied to, like, black and brown professionals in their day-to-day jobs and how they use their voice?Brittani: I think, you know--it's funny. So it makes me think about--like, a really quick story. When I was working at one of my last 9-to-5s, it was a predominantly white workplace, and one of my coworkers who was black, she would just, like, literally turn her personality all the way off, even from, like, the foods that she ate.Zach: Wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. [record scratch sfx] What you mean the food that she ate?Brittani: Yeah! So she wouldn't eat things like chicken in the office or really be, like, really careful on the types of fruit that she would eat.Zach: The types of--oh, so she wouldn't eat, like, a banana is what you're trying to say?Brittani: That, watermelon. You know, like, the traditional, like, things--[haha sfx, both laugh] Yeah, like, you think about, like, black people, and it was weird. So we would have, like, potlucks at work, and if people brought chicken she would say that she was allergic to chicken, but she loved chicken.Zach: She would say that she was allergic to chicken?Brittani: Yeah. It was like, "Girl, why are you doing this? Just be yourself and people will like you for it," you know?Zach: Can we have, like, a real conversation about this though? Okay, so I was talking to my--my wife and I were talking about this. We talk about this often, and Dave Chappelle did a whole stand-up skit about it, but you know how, like, just racist--anti-black racism is so lazy. So it's like, you really think that chicken and watermelon are, like, exclusive to black people? Do you know delicious watermelon is? Do you know how delicious chicken--like, do you know how many cultures enjoy chicken? We all love chicken. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. So she would not eat watermelon. She would not eat bananas. Bananas are--you know, they're a lot of sugar, so if you're watching your weight and you're trying to, you know, kind of cut down on your calories, I can understand--Brittani: Yeah, the carbs and everything. Yeah, I get it, but, you know, from that to, you know, purposely not listening to music that she wanted to in her own personal office.Zach: She had a personal office?Brittani: Yeah. It was just crazy. Like, do what you want to do. Like, be yourself. And so she would say all of the time, like, "Well, Brittani, you're gonna listen to this type of music in the office?" Yes. This is my office. You know, I've earned my role. I'm just as qualified as the next person, and I'm not gonna feel uncomfortable at work and not do things that are true to myself, but the person next to me is, just because we're two different skin colors, come from two different backgrounds, and, you know, upbringings. You know, it doesn't mean that they can do something that I can't. And so one of the things that I learned is that, you know, when you're true to yourself, people, they like the real you. They want to know the real you. You don't have to whiten it to be accepted. So yeah, I highly encourage people in the workplace to not, like, you know, whiten or change who they are just to quote-unquote "fit in," because, you know, people can recognize bull**** and they know that it's not the real you anyway.Zach: That's right. Now, look, this is a clean podcast, but, you know, I respect you, you know what I'm saying?Brittani: Oh, I'm sorry.Zach: No, no, that's okay, but when you said it I was like--[Metal Gear Solid surprised sfx]--you know what I'm saying? Like, "Okay, wait." But no, no, you're absolutely right, people can recognize it, and you just want to be yourself, you know? It's interesting. We had a conversation on Season 1. It was, like, our first episode, with Fenorris Pearson, who was--he was, like, an executive with Motorola and Dell, and he talked about the fact that he went on this plane ride, right, with, like, this very senior white executive, and he said, "Look, we can tell when y'all are putting on airs, and, like, it's fake." Like, "We hate that. It's annoying. We can see right through it. It's awkward. It's clearly not authentic," right? Now, I don't want to shame anybody, because we've been classically--we've been conditioned to put on coverings and participate in respectability politics as a means of survival, so I'm not shaming anybody for doing those things, but at the same time--not but, and we also live in a time when, look, you have a voice. Use it and be yourself, right? Like, if you want to listen to Rick Ross, you know what I'm saying, do that. You want to smoke a Black and Mild on your smoke break? Go ahead and do that. Like, nobody's gonna stop you. Like, it's okay. It's all right. Maybe not a Black and Mild. [both laugh] I'm trying to think of the last time I've seen somebody smoke a Black and Mild, like, in a work setting.Brittani: Oh, God. I don't think I've ever seen that. That's funny.Zach: Like a 'rillo. That'd be like, "Ooh, what's going on?" [both laugh] No, no, no, but anyway, let's talk a little bit about Mogul Millennial, right? You've talked about the fact it's been going on for three years. What have you been most proud of so far, and what are you looking forward to most in the next, like, six to twelve months?Brittani: You know, when I think about, like, everything that I've experienced in these three years, the thing that I am mostly proud of was getting out of my [?] and realizing that I literally cannot do everything. At my last job, I was--I've always been in management roles, so I'm used to being, like, head over something, you know?Zach: Hold on a second. So wait, wait, wait. You said you've always been in management roles?Brittani: Yeah.["ow" sfx]Zach: Okay, I got you. Keep going. Brittani: [laughs] Yeah, so when I started, you know, The Mogul Millennial, it was, you know, just, like, a side project in the beginning since I couldn't dedicate all of my time and resources to it, but yeah, once I decided that I was gonna go full-time with it, I knew that, "Okay, well, Brittani, you can't, like, grow this company. You can't, like, really be as profitable as you want to be, and you're doing everything." So you're doing all of the social media. You're writing all of the blog posts. You're the one trying to pitch yourself and your company to different brands and partners, so you can't do it all, or you can but it's not gonna be really worth anything, or it won't be as good as it could be and as impactful as it could be. And so I really didn't want to at the beginning, I decided to put out a post asking for help, and once I did that, like, our traction increased. I felt like the content got better because we just had, you know, more diverse opinions and thoughts from--like, black millennials literally all over the world were contributing, and so I think that's what I've been most proud of, you know, recognizing that I don't know everything, and that's fine, 'cause now I have people that help me out day-to-day that are so much more better at certain things and more knowledgeable on certain topics, and I've learned a lot as well from those people.[straight up sfx]Zach: No, I feel you. Like, it's tough when, you know, you're at a point, you're grinding, and you feel like you're doing everything, right, like, to the point you're just at your wit's end. You're looking at 'em like ["what more do you want from me?" sfx] You know? It's just like, "I can't." Like, "I have to reach out." That's really important. So, you know, you not only used your voice to create your platform, but you used your voice to extend and expand your platform, 'cause you had to actually use your voice to ask for help.Brittani: Mm-hmm, absolutely. So right now--it was crazy, 'cause when I put out the first post--so since I'm... I have the highest, like, influence on LinkedIn, so, you know, I went to what I know I'm good in. So I put a post on LinkedIn, and literally within the first, like, two weeks, we had over 150 people who were like, "I want to write!" And it was so overwhelming. So between--and remember, I was still working at my 9-to-5. So in-between meetings, like, literally as I was going to, like, meetings, either, like on-site at my job or off-site, or during my lunch break, anything--on the way to the restroom, I was having interviews with these people. 'Cause some people, you know, I had to--I wanted to be accommodating as well, 'cause I wanted to help, and so yeah, it's been good. It's been really good.Zach: So what does it look like, right, to continue and build out this platform, and--actually, let me take a step back. What did it look like when you actually left your full-time job? Like, what did that conversation look like?Brittani: So I had actually planned to leave and was really strategic. So I--I think you and I had talked before and I mentioned that I lived in Houston for a short period of time.Zach: For a little bit of time, yeah.Brittani: Yeah. So originally I'm from Dallas, and I went to school at PV, which is by Houston. Went to PV, came back to Dallas, and was working at a university that's, like, north of Dallas in a small--well, not small... well, yeah, small, but it's [?]. So I was working there at UT Dallas and I remember being approached by my boss's boss--well, no, my boss's boss's boss. So, like, three people above me, to work at the property at the University of Houston, and I denied them, like, three or four times, because the pay wasn't right and I was like, "No, you're not gonna pay me [?]," and I have to move and uproot my life, and so eventually we negotiated back and forth. I got the rate that I wanted plus more, and we--and so yeah, I specifically took that role because I knew that I wanted to quit within a year so that way I could work on Mogul Millennial full-time, 'cause we were doing really well with the site, and so--so yeah, I literally only took the promotion--well, it was like a lateral promotion, so it was the same role but different duties. Zach: But you had got that [cha-ching sfx].Brittani: Exactly, exactly. Making extra money, so I took it knowing that, "Okay, well, I can save money even faster and, you know, quit and be way more financially comfortable."Zach: I got you. So you were, like, kind of scheming on the low, but, like, you know, for yourself though.Brittani: Yeah. I mean, they do it all of the time with us, with [?]. So I had no regrets, no shame. [laughs]Zach: Oh, no, no. Hey, I'm not shaming you, I'm just chuckling 'cause, you know, you negotiated that deal and you're in the background, you know, you're shaking his hand and you're talking about ["hehehe" sfx, both laugh]Brittani: Yep. So no, like, I literally stayed, like, long enough as well. So the year was special because, you know, within a year you can really do--if you're dedicated and persistent you can do some really good damage--well, not damage, but some good improvement. Zach: No, you said what you said. It's okay. [both laugh]Brittani: And then also with the relocation fee, you know, that's why it's important that you read everything. I read in the contract for the relocation [?] I was given that you need to stay for a year. So yeah, I left within a year, and then--so it really just looked like, you know, within that time period for me working at the other location in Houston, was to just save and grow my team, and then also focus on, like, upcoming products and plan out different projects that we're gonna actually be releasing this year, so I'm really excited about that, but it was a lot of hard work. So at my last company I was literally working, like, sometimes, like, 60, 70 hours a week, 'cause I worked in a very busy industry, but at the same time, you know, having a team was really helpful, and then I just worked crazy hours on the weekends, on my lunch breaks, before work, things like that.Zach: That's a blessing. It's a blessing to find folks who are, you know, engaged and willing to support, right? You know, I think we probably need to have you back just around, like, the principles of building a team and getting started, because I think a lot of times, and I'll say this for podcasting, podcasting is notorious for people, like, starting off really big with a splash and then being done after, like, 2.5 months, because the load of, like, getting content, researching, producing, it can get, like, tiring over time, so, like, a lot of podcasts don't even last a year, you know what I'm saying? Let alone--Brittani: It's a full-time job.Zach: It's a full-time job, and so, you know, it's tough. So that's incredible. I'm so excited. I'm so thankful that you've been able to be on this, on our platform. Now, look, again, Brittani, you're the first LinkedIn Top Voice that we've had on Living Corporate. How does that make you feel?Brittani: You know what? It makes me feel good, but it won't be the last. I believe in you guys.Zach: Ow! Had to do my own Cardi B "ow," goodness gracious. Thank you so much, I appreciate that. And, you know, I've gotta give you a Flex bomb just because you've been dropping casual just--[Flex bomb sfx] It's just ridiculous. Like, it's just incredible, but, like, I'm just so thankful that you're able to be here. Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Brittani: Yeah. So of course shout-out to my team. My editorial assistant, Alex, she came up with the name Mogul Mob and I love it, so shout-out--Zach: Oh, The Mogul Mob? Yeah, Mogul Mob be up in that WordPress putting content together like [Cardi B "bratbratbratbrat" sfx] You know what I'm saying? We out here.Brittani: [laughs] Yeah, so shout-out to them. They are all amazing, even--like, in their own individual lives they do so many great things, from being startup entrepreneurs, small business owners, freelancers, et cetera. Corporate bosses. They are just amazing. But the only other thing that I want to also shout-out or mention is that we gonna be launching our own online course platform through Mogul Millennial. It's called Mogul Genius, so look out for that. It will be released to a private group of people in October, but after that we'll be releasing it to the general public, so yeah.Zach: Look at you. Come on, now. Well, first of all, again, you know what, just shout-out to y'all. I've gotta go ahead and drop these air horns right here--[air horns sfx]--for The Mogul Millennial and, you know what, for Brittani Hunter. Thank you so much for being on our show. Y'all, that does it for us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you check us out on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, on Instagram @LivingCorporate, and on our website at living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com. Now, look, if you have any questions or any shout-outs you'd like to place on the show, you can contact us through the website or you can email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com, or you can just DM us 'cause the DMs are wide open. Now, look, you can check us out online if you just Google Living Corporate. We're at all of the domains. Brittani, do you know we have every single Living Corporate variation besides Living Corporate dot com?Brittani: That's a smart way to go. A lot of people don't do that. I'm so glad that you do so somebody [can't?] steal it.Zach: Thank you. So we've got livingcorporate.net, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org, but we don't have livingcorporate.com because Australia has livingcorporate.com. They've got, like, some apartment renting company out there.Brittani: Oh, my God.Zach: I'm saying, right? Now, look, one day though the brand is gonna be brolic enough we're gonna go and we're gonna get that domain. I just don't know when that's gonna be, but it's gonna happen. I'm speaking it.Brittani: They'll [?] forget to pay their renewal.Zach: They'll mess up. Yeah, real talk. Playas mess up, and they'll mess up too. [both laugh] You know what I'm saying? We've talked about Australia a little bit. I'm really trying to be careful 'cause I don't want to create no international beef, but I very much so do want the domain, so I'm trying to figure out, like, what the best strategy is. Maybe you and I could have a conversation offline about that.Brittani: Yeah, yeah. I could tell you a story about that. Zach: [laughs] All right, y'all. Well, look, this has been Zach Nunn, and you've been listening to Brittani Hunter, CEO and founder of The Mogul Millennial. Until next time. Peace.

On the eleventh entry of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, talks about how to take mental health days at work, what that actually means and looks like, and the benefits of doing so. According to a 2018 Glassdoor study, the average American only takes about 54% of their available time off in the previous 12 months - don't hesitate to take yours!You can read Latesha's interview on Forge!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBVisit our website!TRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha on Living Corporate. This podcast is for young professionals that need some real advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Latesha Byrd. How are y'all doing today? I hope that you have had a wonderful week. It is pretty cold here in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I am. It seems that we went straight from summer to winter. So--[laughs]--no cutesy letter jackets, no. You know, we're straight winter coat, peacoat with the scarf and gloves mode, so hope you all--if you love the cold, love the winter, good for you, but I am definitely missing the heat. Anyways, today we are talking about something that is extremely, extremely important, and this is on thinking about our mental health at work and doing what is best for us to make sure that we are really, you know, taking control of our mental health and making that a priority. I was recently asked to be interviewed for Forge. If you are unfamiliar with Forge, it is a personal development publication by Medium. It's pretty cool. Check it out. Forge. And the topic was how to ask for a mental health day. You know, we just celebrated or recognized Mental Health Awareness Day, and so I thought it would be a great idea to just share of the tips and go into a little further detail about, you know, the conversation that we had and some of the things that were actually discussed. And I think that now in 2019, you know, we are understanding, or more so normalizing, you know, the conversation around mental health, you know? It has been a stigma in the black community that if you are going to therapy or if you are depressed or if you are dealing with mental health issues, then, you know, something is wrong with you, right? But, you know, I just started going to therapy this year. It has completely, completely changed my life. I have learned to really build a relationship with myself, and it's allowed me to be a better coach, a better businesswoman, a better friend, a better mentor, a better boss and leader and all of the above. So mental health is something I'm really passionate about, especially as we think about how our mental health affects how we actually show up in the workplace. So I wanted to share just some stats with you all, talk about how to actually take mental health days, what that actually looks like--like, what that actually means and the benefits of it. So I was reading an article on CNBC, and it said that among Americans that are currently employed, 13% say they plan to take a quarter of their vacation days or fewer this year - according to a poll of nearly 2,600 U.S. adults conducted by Bankrate, which also finds that 4% of Americans aren't planning to take any vacation at all, even though their employers offer it. Another stat that was shared from Glassdoor in 2018 was that the average American only took about 54% of their available time off in the previous 12 months. I want you all to take your PTO. Please. You don't have to go on a vacation to take time off. This is where these mental health days can come in. Our mental health is just as important as our physical health. When you think about your mental health, there's a few things that go into that: anxiety, right? That is something that I have had to really try to overcome, especially as an entrepreneur. Stress. That leads to burnout, you know? And it's not just about at work, you know? Dealing with this at work. You know, especially for women, we are the caretakers. We are taking care of everybody, our kids, our parents. Who's taking care of us? It's funny, I was actually scrolling on Instagram this morning, and I saw a really, really interesting quote, and it said, "We expect women to work like they don't have children and raise children as if they don't work." So women, you know, I know we are Superwoman. We play Superwoman really, really well, but we have to take those days off for our mental health. Now, in terms of thinking about your mental health, you know, it's important to understand where the burnout, where the stress--where it's coming from and what may be depleting your energy. For me, I've really started to focus on managing my energy versus managing my time. So I know when I'm best during the day and when I'm not, and I will structure my work around those times where I have the most energy, or the least energy. So if it's something that is requiring a lot of creativity, some innovation, a lot of critical thinking, I will do--I will work on those things when my energy is at the top top top, and I'll save some of those lower-level thinking activities [like], you know, doing administrative work, for when I have, you know, lower energy. It's also important to know what work you're doing maybe that's causing some of the stress. How can you prioritize your work, you know? Is it certain people you're working around? That can be contributing as well to depleting your energy. It's important to understand, you know, the sources and where that is actually coming from. I am not, you know, a mental health professional, so it is important to--you know, I always recommend, again, therapy. Talk to a therapist, you know? Talk to a professional that can help you get, you know, the resources that you need to figure out where it's coming from and how to overcome it or, you know, just how to, you know, live more energetically, especially, you know, as we're thinking about the workplace. So, you know, coming back to the topic of taking a mental health day. I just want to make this clear. Your company is not obligated to know that you are taking a mental health day. To be honest, I don't really think it's any of their business. Now, if you have a very close relationship with, you know, your boss or your manager, and they're extremely supportive, and everyone talks about mental health and they really, really value mental health, yeah, maybe then it's worth a conversation, but you don't need to feel obligated. You can just say that you need to take a day off. If you are in a workplace where, whenever you take a day off, you know, they go, "Well, why do you need to take a day off? What are you doing?" Like, what? Mm-mm. I'm not here, so why are you asking? [laughs] So understand that taking a day off, you're not obligated to tell them, you know? That is up to your discretion, but I will say is that you need to take time off to recoup. Understand the PTO policy for your company. You know, as I shared those stats, a lot of us don't take time off. We also don't take--we don't max out on our time off. Now, if your company has a "use it or lose it" policy I'm gonna need you to use it, [laughs] but it is important to know "If I don't use all of my PTO by this day, will I run out of PTO?" Or I guess not run out, but will it not roll over to the next year? Some companies will let you roll over your PTO to maybe the next fiscal year if you don't use it. Sometimes that amount is capped as well. So definitely understand that, and then just start (booking?) time off regularly. I think something that holds us back from taking time off is that we feel like we have to go on a vacation. Like, we only take time off if we are going out of town, if we're going somewhere, and then we say, "Well, I don't want to spend money," you know? Taking time off could just be sitting at the crib--[laughs]--sitting at the crib not doing anything. Sometimes, you--like, vacations are great, right, but man, y'all know that time when you... sometimes you need a vacation from the vacation, you know what I'm saying? So sometimes vacations are great--well, not sometimes. Vacations are great, you know? It's great to get away, to get out of where you currently are and try something new, new experiences, you know, immerse yourself into a new culture, but I'm telling you, that transition period from coming back from vacation to getting back into the workplace can be a little bit challenging. But all I'm saying is it is good to just take time off and really not do anything. Just schedule days where you just stay at home or where you just don't do much of anything at all. You know, I recommend to set some restrictions for yourself. When you decide to take a day off--no vacation, maybe you're staying at home, but you're taking that mental health day. Don't set up any meetings, don't set up any calls--unless it's, you know, maybe with an old friend or with a family member that you just love and you want to catch up with. Maybe a little grocery shopping here and there if you must, but relax and rest as much as possible. Catch up on your shows. Listen to music. Read a book. Go to a museum. Go to a park. Walk around a park. If you live near a lake go to a lake, or, you know, maybe you could just lay up on the couch and watch your favorite movie with a bottle of red wine. Just do something that doesn't require a lot of energy. Taking that time away will allow your brain to also recoup. You'll see that once you take time off you will come back to work even more productive, you know? Maybe your creativity, your innovative ways of thinking have been a little bit stifled. This is where that taking the time off and not doing anything and giving your brain will help you to come back even stronger. Now, this tip is super important, and that is setting boundaries. Set boundaries with your coworkers. When you are off, they should not be calling you, okay? They should not be texting you. It's important when you're taking time off to just make sure that your work is handled beforehand, having--if you must, you know, have conversations with those that can maybe pick up work for you or just let everyone know--not everyone, but let the right people know where you are with your work, what needs to be done, who needs to contact who, who you're waiting to hear back from, et cetera. You know, it's important to be a little bit more proactive, 'cause you don't want to come back from your day off and then, you know, everything's on fire. So you can be as proactive as possible, that way you can also make sure that things are taken care of while you're gone so you won't have to deal with calls and emails and texts--and if I were you, I would not even respond to them anyways. [laughs] A little bit harder for me since, you know, I run my company and my team needs me all of the time, but I do tell them when I go out of town or if I'm taking a day off like, "Hey, I am off work. If it is not an emergency--if anything is not on fire, please don't call me. Put it in an email. I will get back to you when I can, but other than that..." And they have been great with respecting those boundaries, but you will need to set some boundaries, you know, not only with your coworkers, but also with yourself, you know? So don't do too much where you're exerting a lot of physical energy either. Really, just relax. We're in this society where we feel like we need to be productive all of the time, right, and our productivity and what we achieve is tied to how we identify success, but understand that taking that time off for you will allow you to come back even better. So I hope that this helped. If you want to check out the piece by Forge on Medium, you can find it on my social media - @Latesha_Byrd. So that's all I have for you all, so have a great, great week, and I will talk to you later. Bye!

On the thirty-fifth installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield adds to some of the previous tips he's given us on cover letters by discussing three tips to help tailor and strengthen your cover letter. Unlike resumes, cover letters provide an area to get a little bit more creative, so use that to your advantage to make a lasting impression!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!Check out our website by clicking here: Living CorporateTRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y'all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week we’re going to add to some of the previous tips I’ve given you on cover letters by discussing 3 tips to tailor and strengthen your cover letter.Similar to your resume your cover letter should be tailored for each position you’re submitting it to. Since I know most people hate writing cover letters, that’s easier said than done. So I wanted to provide a couple of tips to make tailoring and strengthening your cover letter a little easier.First, use portions of the job description. If you want to get a job, you have to be able to talk to the talk. Take the time to identify and incorporate keywords and phrases from the job description to you ensure you’re speaking their language. Often times you can pick up on which points relate to your experience just by reading the job description.Next, try to tie in the company’s mission or core values. Doing this shows that you’ve done your homework. That you’ve researched and you understand WHY you want to want for this company or organization. It also displays how your skills and experience fit into the larger context of the organization and by proxy how YOU fit into the company or organization.Lastly, try to tell a story. The path you took to gain the relevant skills for this role is unique which is a selling point for you. Use your highlights and accomplishment to build a compelling narrative showcasing how your interest in the role or company came about. Just be careful not to go too farin-depth.Unlike resumes, cover letters provide an area to get a little bit more creative so use that to your advantage to make a lasting impression.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, twitter, and facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach welcomes Cognizant's Maureen Greene James to the show, and she shares what she thinks are the biggest frustrations in the diversity and inclusion space today. In addition to speaking about her unique role as an inclusion leader who's jointly focused on leadership development, she also offers up three points of advice for executives looking to create an inclusive workforce.Connect with Maureen on LinkedIn and Twitter, and check out Cognizant's website, Twitter, and Instagram!Check out our website by clicking here: Living CorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, you know what we do, right? I come on here, I say, "What's up, y'all?" And I say it in this smooth way, right? And then I say we're a platform that amplifies the voices of black and brown people at work, but just for those of you who don't know, we are a platform that amplifies the voices of black and brown people at work. Now, if you're new to the space you may say, "Well, how do you actually do that?" Let me tell you how we do that. We do that by having pointed, accessible, and real, authentic interviews with black and brown executives, leaders, movers and shakers, influencers, public servants, educators, activists, creatives, artists, you know what I'm saying? With everybody. And we also interview non-black and brown folks too, for those who are fragile and feel not involved. We got y'all too. You're welcome as long as you are an advocate for black and brown people. And so, look, we do this, and today is no different. We actually have a great guest like we do every episode, but I'm saying this episode really for real. 'Cause sometimes I have a guest and y'all send me messages like, "Okay," but no, but really, this time a super, super dope guest. Our guest is Maureen Greene James. What's up? Sound Man, give me some air horns right here. [air horns sfx] Okay, thank you. Now, look, Maureen, she is an HR professional whose background, experiences and expertise include HR leadership, talent development, diversity & inclusion, employee engagement, communications AND change management. Maureen serves by bringing expertise and experiences in HR leadership, diversity & inclusion, talent and leadership development, employee engagement and change management to Cognizant, serving as the leader--y'all, check it out. Whoa, whoa, whoa. The leader of Diversity & Leadership Development for North America. So all of the states, right? Including the little states on the side. For those of y'all who weren't too good at geography, Alaska and Hawaii. Those spots too, right? She is in charge of all of that, right? Now, to further enhance Cognizant’s commitment to diversity, she plays a key role in the company’s efforts around executive talent & leadership development while staying focused on building a diverse, high performing pipeline of strong women leaders. Maureen has been recognized for her professional accomplishments in Black Enterprise magazine--come on, Black Enterprise--and in 2014 received the “Most Powerful and Influential Woman Award” by the National Diversity Council. I mean, come on. I mean, what can we really say here? I gotta drop at least one Flex bomb. [Flex bomb sfx] Maureen, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Maureen: I am great, Zachary. How are you?Zach: I am really, really well. So, you know, a little bit of behind-the-scenes tea, I'm really glad we're able to sit down. We've been so busy.Maureen: We have. There's been a lot of stuff going on. I've been doing some travel for work. But, you know, it's all good. I'm staying busy, staying focused on all things inclusion and diversity within my organization, as well as, you know, within other organizations that I have the opportunity to be in front of and share my knowledge and expertise [with].Zach: Okay. Well, hold on. So you say you've been traveling, you know, and again, you said your organization as well as, you know, other organizations, so... ["ow" sfx] You know, can you talk a little bit about some of the other organizations that you've been able to share your knowledge and expertise with?Maureen: Sure. So I often have the opportunity to really utilize my platform and my voice to speak with other organizations at conferences and inclusion summits. I've had the opportunity to be in front of MetLife as an organization just to talk about diversity and inclusion. I actually hosted a panel around inclusion not too long ago. I also had the opportunity to work with PwC, which is an organization that obviously I'm familiar with because that's where I was for the past I would say about 11.5 years. So I do spend a lot of time really focusing on diversity and inclusion, obviously within Cognizant, but also making sure that I am sharing the knowledge and expertise as well as learning from other organizations too around what we're doing, what we're all doing in this space to really build an inclusive work environment.Zach: Well, I mean, I just think it's incredible, and that's why we're so excited to have you on the show today. So, you know, I gave a bit of an introduction and we talked about--and just now you talked about some of the speaking you've been doing. I talked about your professional background. But for those of us who don't know you, is there anything else you think you'd like to share about yourself?Maureen: Yeah. So for anyone that doesn't know me, [know] that I'm a really passionate--I don't like to say HR leader, even though that's probably what it says in my bio, but I'm a people leader, you know? Like, I like to get in touch with the people. I like to know what's going on with the people within an organization and what makes them tick, what makes them get engaged with the organization that they work for, and what allows them to feel like they are working within an organization that has a very strong culture of belonging? So those are the things that are, you know, really important to me and the things that I'm passionate about professionally. I recently had the opportunity to speak at an inclusion summit for an organization called ATG - Advanced Technology Group - and, you know, one of the questions that they asked me was around, you know, "So what are the things that people don't know about you?" And I said, "Well, you know, there's some things you don't know about me. I like to kayak. I like to read. I like to learn. I like to hang with my family." And of course my favorite thing in the world is I like to spend time on the beach. But I try to mix all of that, the business and the pleasure together, so taht I have what I like to call work-life--like, some kind of work-life equality. Not necessarily balance, because there's no such thing as work-life balance.Zach: Listen. Now, we could have a whole 'nother podcast about that. I sometimes--[both laugh]--'cause it's not true, right? I think--ugh, anyway... no, no, I'm gonna go ahead and say it! [both laugh] So I sometimes talk about, like, work-life blend, right? And I've even had, like--this was back when I was, like, 23, 23 or 24. I wrote an article on LinkedIn about--I said work-life balance is a myth, 'cause it is, right? Like, we live in a capitalistic society, and the rate of pay has not gone up with the rate of work. So whether you want to accept it or not, right, like, you are--people are now working more than they ever have before and not getting paid commensurate with just the hours. Not even talking about, like, the thought leadership or the quality, just the hours of work that you put in. People at large are not getting paid for/in direct with that, right? So this idea of work-life balance, like, I know the workforce of the future is this whole new topic around, like, just how people are gonna be working differently, because this cannot continue at the rate that it is, and so this whole idea of work-life balance, like you said, I just--I don't think it's real either. So that's awesome though.Maureen: It doesn't exist. Yeah, doesn't exist.Zach: It doesn't exist. And, you know, people will call you pessimistic or whatever, but it's not. It's like, it doesn't--that's not necessarily good or bad, it's just like--but you want to be honest, that way you can actually start creating some boundaries and kind of, like, just start determining what your atmosphere is gonna be. Maureen: Exactly.Zach: Yes, ma'am. So look, let's just get into it, okay? Now, with Trump as president, I'd say we have a stronger focus on diversity and inclusion than ever before, but I'd argue that we've seen a sort of colonization of space where discussions around race are dismissed as elementary, right? Like, gender is amplified and diversity of thought is a north star. So what, if anything, do you think can be done to include more black and brown folks, particularly black and brown women, in these spaces?Maureen: Yeah. So that's a great question, Zachary, and one of the things I see is that when we're talking about diversity and inclusion, we have to really be thinking more broadly around "What does the diversity lens look like?" Right? So there was a point in time when the diversity lens looked like it was all about race and ethnicity, right? And so now women are a bigger and much larger part of the conversation, as it should be, but then there's also the opportunity for us to really be thinking more broadly around, like you say, black and brown folks and black and brown women. So we know that at leadership levels within organizations we don't see enough of us, but there are some things I think that can be done to ensure that we really have a bigger seat at that table. For example, I'd love to see black and brown women really put themselves in positions to be front and center, to be leaders, and that sometimes means for us stepping a little bit out of our comfort zone, right, and putting ourselves in places and in opportunities and on projects where we may not necessarily have every single requirement that let's say is in the quote-unquote job description, but we have a good percentage of it, and so then why wouldn't we go for it? And that's typically something that women on a whole don't necessarily do. And so just think about it from a black and brown perspective. We do it even less because we feel like we shouldn't be doing that, we shouldn't put ourselves front and center for some of those things. So I think that we need to make sure that we're putting ourselves front and center. I also think that we need to be seeking out mentors and sponsors, and the reason I mention both is because there's a difference, right? So a mentor is somebody who's going--you're going to go to for advice and counsel on your career and is it going the right direction and that kind of thing, and people need that. Everybody needs that, especially if you're an emerging manager within an organization, but then if you're at a higher--a little bit of a higher level but not necessarily at that C-Suite level, then you need a sponsor. You need somebody who is going to talk about you when you leave the room in a really good way. You know, not dishing all your business, but talk about you in a really good way to say, "I know that Maureen can do this because I have seen her do XYZ. I know that she can win that client over because she has the skills to do this based on the work that she's done with a similar client, and I have been privy to that." So you really need to have that sponsor who's going to pound the table for you and say, "Hey, this is the woman that you need front and center." So I don't want to spend a ton of time on it, I mean, 'cause I could go on for days, but those are some of the things that I think are really critical for black and brown women to focus on. Zach: So let's do this then, right? And it's interesting 'cause I was just--you know, you see a lot of these thinkpieces out lately, but I was just actually listening in on Dr. Janice, right, and she was talking about how leaning in doesn't always work, right, because, like, what do you do--so, like, we just had you, Maureen Greene James, inclusion and diversity extraordinaire, leader of people, speaker, snatcher of edges, you know what I'm saying? You out here. You just gave us great wisdom and insight on what should happen and what we should do, but what happens when--first of all, how do we do that? How do we have those conversations and put ourselves out there? And then what advice then would you give to the people who are in power, right, which is basically white men and women, on how they can be effective sponsors. Like, how does that happen?Maureen: That's a really good question. So advice I would give to people who are looking for sponsors, what I would say is that you look for someone who doesn't even remotely look like you or sound like you, walk or talk like you, and that's a hard thing to say, right? That's a hard thing for somebody to get their mind wrapped around. So I'll give you a quick story. So when I was working for PwC, there was a point in time where I was looking for someone to really--I wasn't looking for a mentor. I was truly looking for a sponsor, right? Somebody that I knew was going to give it to me straight, that was gonna tell me "Yeah, Maureen, you're not doing a really good job at this," or "Yeah, you're doing great at this, and here's what else you can do to improve in that particular area." And I was also looking for somebody to talk about me behind closed doors when I wasn't in the room. And so I really decided to put myself completely outside of my comfort zone, and I went and had a conversation with somebody who I previously did not necessarily get along with, and I had the conversation for two reasons: one, I wanted to understand what it was about this individual that, for whatever reason, we just rubbed edges. So I needed to understand that just for my own personal understanding, and two, I wanted to understand it from the standpoint of saying, "Okay, so now that I have an understanding of what that is, is this the person that could really be my sponsor?" And so I invited him out to lunch, and we had a great conversation. We talked about that one moment where we bumped heads. It was a few years before, but he remembered it very well and I definitely did not forget it, and at the end of that conversation I simply said to him, "Here's what I'm looking for, and I would like you to be this person to help move me along in my career, to be that person who is going to step in and really be that person pounding the table for me," and he was completely taken aback and surprised but elated at the same time that I asked. And when I tell you, Zachary, that he was probably one of the best individuals that I have had work with me in my career. He was straightforward with me when he needed to be, and he was at the table, you know, singing my praises one, but two really talking about what it was that I could do, how I deliver, how he's seen me deliver. So I really think it's important that we step outside of our comfort zones and we don't look for people who look like us or think like us or who have worked in the same organizations or even in the same industry and sector. This person didn't work in HR. Did work for the company, but didn't work in HR, didn't have an HR understanding, didn't necessarily want it, and that's why they were so critical, because they can give you a different perspective, something that you don't yourself necessarily see because you're in that space all of the time. So that's one of the things I would definitely say is critical. Step outside your comfort zone and look for somebody different.Zach: I love that. And so then on the other side, right, so when you put yourself out there, what advice would you give to your non-melanated, right, counterparts, on how they can make themselves available to be sponsors?Maureen: [laughs] I love "non-melanated." [both laugh] Zach: You like that, huh?Maureen: I love that. I love that. So one of the things I would say is--so I'm going to, you know, really try and step into their shoes for a second, even though that's not necessarily an easy thing to do. I would say it's very difficult for them to feel as though they can put themselves out there. And so the one piece of advice I would give them is just get to know someone. At the end of the day, Zachary, we're all human beings, you know what I'm saying? I mean, we do a lot of stuff alike, okay? We're really not that different, and I really think it's important that we are encouraging our non-melanated counterparts to feel like they can have a conversation with us, but to make them feel like that we have to treat them the way we want to be treated. So in other words, we can't necessarily roll up on them with any kind of, you know, negative thinking around how we think they're going to treat us or how we think they're going to approach us. Just have a conversation with them like you would anybody else. And honestly, you'd be surprised at how open and willing they are to really working with you, but sometimes they feel like they need to be given permission to know you. And I want to go back to something that you said earlier with Trump as president. I think that has created a lot of friction in terms of the way that people just approach each other on a daily basis, right? You know, non-melanated people may think that they can't approach black and brown people, right, or that they shouldn't, but before Trump did we really think that? Did we really have that going on, or were we comfortable just kind of saying, you know, "What's up? Can we talk?" Zach: I wasn't, but, you know, I do believe that it's definitely been more heightened now, right? Like, I think it all depends, right, on your background, right, on your story, kind of where you came from. I know just based on--so my family, coming from the South and, like, horrific experiences that they had, you know, they've really been comfortable, like, in certain situations, and in experiences I've had as well and just in my life. Not even just singing my parents' song. There's always been a bit of hesitation. I definitely believe though--to your point I believe is that it's definitely been--like, it's way more pointed now than it's been in a while, yeah.Maureen: Yeah, which is very unfortunate, because I think people--you know, most people are inherently good and really want to help and want to engage, you know, but I think that, you know, they don't necessarily feel like they can or they should, and so they don't, and so it's almost like they want permission from us. And I think we, black and brown people, need to give a little permission. And it's hard. In this day and time, that's a really hard thing to do. Zach: It is, right? 'Cause, like, there's so much emotional labor, and I think--I know that you know this, but I think it's a huge blind spot, and I think it actually goes into our next question, which is around, like, D&I programs and organizations when they think about diversity and inclusion. I don't think that organizations are effectively factoring in, like, just the emotional labor that goes into being other in majority-white spaces, nor do I think that people really understand--so, like, just black tax, right? Like, we're recording this on the day of Amber Guyger's sentencing, right? And, like, black and brown folks who have been looking at the trials, specifically black people, looking at the trial and, like, seeing this person who was convicted of murder, so... so okay, she did murder this person. [She was] crying, like, crying fake tears--crying what many people felt were fake tears, and, like, that could be triggering to a lot of different folks, the body cam footage being released and, like--so, like, just dealing with all of that and the PTSD-like symptoms that just seeing black death or constant coversage of black death causes. Like, those people still have to go to work, right? Those people still have to interact with people who may shrug their shoulders at that stuff. So I just think, like--to your point about it being hard, I think that it's really easy to undermine or dismiss--I don't think that you can overstate how hard it is to make yourself available. I'm not saying that you shouldn't or that you can't, but I'm just saying, like, I wish that--for me, right, so I know I'm interviewing you, but this is me just talking to you as someone who is in a position, right, as an executive, I wish that organizations would be more thoughtful to that, right? And I think there's just so much work to do. I'm curious to know though what you believe organizations could still be--are still missing when they talk about diversity and inclusion and you have these conversations on the big stages and also in the smaller rooms. Like, what are some themes that you're seeing around organizations and kind of what they still could be developing when it comes to their programming?Maureen: Yeah. So that's a great question. I think some organizations are doing a fairly good job, and then there's some organizations that are, you know--they're trying to get there. They're doing--I'll say they're doing the best they can, right? So one of the things I think is very commendable and courageous is having those bold and courageous conversations, right? I think that that is something that is innovative, it's fresh. It invites everyone to the table to have the deep discussion. At times, they can get really real and dig deeper than anyone wants to go, and they can create emotions out of people that no one expected, but that's necessary to have an understanding of what everyone on all sides of the coin across the entire spectrum of diversity is thinking and feeling. I think where organizations fail--so organizations that do that, I think they're doing great, but I think where those same organizations fail is that after they do that work, what happens next? So what are you supposed to do with those conversations? What are the expectations for the people that are sitting in as a part of those conversations? "Okay, great. We got it." "Okay, I understand how you feel," because this woman was just, you know, convicted of murder. She's gotten 10 years. And yeah, I understand that, but what am I supposed to do with this? There needs to be an afterwards. There needs to be an understanding of "Okay, so here's the way I feel, but here's the reason why I feel this way." And then there should be opportunities for people to bring that into the thinking around how we work, how we hire people in organizations, right? So are we thinking about talent of all colors, or are we thinking about talent of just one color? So in other words, you have to take the conversation from just, you know, engaging people and saying, "Yeah, here's what we did. We brought everybody together. We had a really good conversation, and now the organization is better for it." The organization is okay, but it's not better for it unless the people--unless everybody in that conversation walks away with, "Okay, what can we do next?" And that's the thing I think is missing.Zach: No, I agree with that, right? And I think--so when you talk about D&I programming as a whole, like, it's just not restorative. It's not restorative, and it's also not policy-driven. It's not data-driven, and it's not results-oriented by means of policies being updated. So, like, all of the things you just said--so okay, we had the conversation. Cool. "This is how we feel." Okay. "Now this is what we're gonna do about it, and this is how we, as an organization, are gonna change, and this is what accountability is gonna look like, in light of the conversation and the insights that we gathered." Like, that then makes the emotional labor worth something, but, like, if you're putting in emotional labor and not getting anything in return, like, not only is that, like, exhausting on the inset, but then it's defeating on the outset, right? So that's huge, and again, it really leads us into the next question. Okay, so you're the first--so we've interviewed some folks, right? I'm not a name-dropper. You can go on Living Corporate's podcast--ow--y'all check it out. Y'all can see the people that we've talked to. And we've talked to folks who have been in, like, these global or national positions around inclusion and diversity, but I think that you're the first person we've spoken too who is, like, in their title integrating inclusion with leadership. And so can we talk about--yeah, so that's pretty cool, and I believe that's, like, the next--I really believe that's the next level or the next phase when you talk about kind of reclaiming D&I. I do see, like, more black women and black and brown people being in these positions of inclusion and diversity much more than I have in the past, I don't know, seven or eight years, right? I've seen an uptick. So when I was talking about, like, kind of decolonizing D&I and [I] talked about, like, reclaiming the space, that's part of what I mean. So can we talk a little bit about how you've led the strategy for Cognizant to drive the intersection of those two spaces, and then also what you're continuing to do?Maureen: Sure. So at Cognizant I've had the opportunity to, as you've mentioned, be on both sides, right? So diversity and inclusion as well as leadership development. So within Cognizant, the global leadership development team is really focused on growing leaders at the director and above level, and within doing that it's also focused on making sure that our people at those levels are very diverse across the board. What I would say, Zachary, is that we have a long way to go, right? I don't think we're different from many other organizations out there. We do have a very long way to go in terms of "How do we continue to build this inclusive strategy specifically for our directors and above?" And so while I am focused on everybody across the organization regardless of level, obviously, my leadership development role is only focused on our directors and above, but I make sure to keep a diversity and inclusion lens on that population of people because when individuals see diversity at the higher levels of the organization, it attracts more people, it allows us to retain more diverse people, because now they're able to see levels and opportunities and projects and roles that they can aspire to, and it helps us to grow and develop that population. So it helps to grow the diversity that we do have at the manager and below level into those leadership levels. So it's--we like to say it's a cyclical win-win, right? The attract, retain, and develop pillars, but what I will say to you is that our focus, primarily for the past year and a half or since I've been there, has been around gender diversity. And so I bring a different lens to it, because I'm not thinking about just, you know, "Let's just bring any women in." I'm thinking about "What do the women look like? Where do they come from? Where have they been? What industries? What sectors?" All of those things, but I'm really also making sure that we're building into this diverse lens. So we have some black and brown people, you know, at the higher levels, so we make sure that we're incorporating individuals with disabilities at those levels, right? All of those things. So we're incorporating our LGBTQ+ community. We need to be able to have people at those levels who are going to be th epeople that other individuals in the organization aspire to or other individuals outside of the organization see and now say to themselves "Well, if So-and-so can be a leader in this organization, there's an opportunity for me here. There's an opportunity for me to start somewhere." So that's what the strategy has really been built around, you know? Making sure that 1. we're focused on gender diversity, but we're looking at it across a lens of all of the components of inclusion.Zach: You're bringing intersectionality to the table.Maureen: Absolutely. All day every day. All day every day.Zach: And I think, Maureen, like, for me--everything you said, of course, 100% spot on - I think what organizations don't realize is, for me anyways, right--when I come into organizations, and I've been in a few different places, so I've seen a lot. Like, I've seen a variety of cultures, but I always--when I come in--I consider myself about, like, an A- employee, okay? I feel like I'm great. I'm not, like, the best, but I'm very, very, very good. 'Cause I have other things going on. I've got Living Corporate. I ain't got time... like, I got other stuff, but with all that being said--[both laugh]Maureen: I hear you.Zach: You know what I'm saying. You know, I'ma keep that extra plus for me, but my point is I'm a very strong employee, so when I come into organizations, you know, I have aspirations, I have goals. I typically, without even, like, actively trying to do it, I just end up kind of zooming in on, like, the senior-most black people, and I look and see how they're treated, and I use that as a gauge to feel like "Okay, let me just think. Okay, so this person has a doctorate and an MBA, international experience, interned with the UN, can speak three languages, two more than me, and they're still being treated like this." So what does that then mean for my prospects as someone who's looking to build a five, six, seven-year roadmap here, right? So 100% right in that the treatment--how you treat... I mean, people see those things, right? So let's pause for a second though, 'cause I want to go back to something you said. You talked about the director level, director and up. Have you noticed a pattern of black and brown folks kind of, like, climbing a ladder and getting to the director level or, like, senior manager level even, and just kind of stalling out?Maureen: Yes.Zach: What's the reason behind that?Maureen: Yeah, I wouldn't say--and that's an every organization thing. It's definitely not, you know, a Cognizant thing or--Zach: Exclusive, yeah.Maureen: Yeah, yeah. No, definitely not. What I would say the issue behind that is that people in those roles tend to stall out because the higher you go within the organization, a lot of times you don't see people who look like you, so the people who have the power--Zach: And social capital.Maureen: Yes, to make the decisions to therefore promote a black or brown person into those high level roles aren't necessarily there, so they're looking through one lens, and their lens is typically people they know, people they've worked on projects with before, people they went to school with, people that they're in the same social circles with, those kinds of things, and black and brown people aren't necessarily always in those places. And so I think that that is part of the problem. I think the other problem is we, as black and brown people, sometimes tend to hurt ourselves because we don't necessarily put ourselves in those positions. I can speak from experience. I did it to myself and, you know, almost derailed my career years ago when I decided I didn't want to attend an event that I was invited too. But I responded and said I would, and then at the last minute [I] said, "You know what? No one is going to notice if I don't show up," and so I declined it at the last minute, and sure enough next day I walk into the office and the person who invited me says, "Maureen, we missed you last night." Now, this was not someone who looked me. It was somebody who I thought really wasn't even paying attention to me, but obviously he was, and I made the really poor executive decision to not go because, and you heard me say it, I thought I was not going to be missed. "No one is going to notice if I'm not there." And this man--I don't even know if he even remembers this story, and I always say one of these days I need to remind him, but this individual, when he invited me, he invited me for a reason. So that's why I say we can derail ourselves. You know, if you get an invitation like that--and this was a senior leader--take advantage of that, you know? Absolutely. Don't ever think--and that's the other thing. Don't ever think that people aren't paying attention to you. They are. They are, especially if you are doing great work. Like you said about yourself, you're an A- employee, which I'm sure you're an A++. Even if you remotely think you're an A- player, somebody is paying attention to you, you know? So I think we need to do a better job of putting ourselves in places where we can be seen, but that all goes back to the point of being on those high-visibiliity projects and how do we get there. There has to be somebody at the top that's pounding the table for us to get there. So it's kind of cyclical. It's kind of like you're almost, like, stuck in a...Zach: A loop.Maureen: Yes. Yeah. It's a challenge.Zach: No, it is. It is. Now, you know, we've talked a little bit about programming. We kind of had a meta discussion about D&I, but then, like, I'm curious, right, from a leadership perspective, if you were to give, like, five key traits of inclusive leaders, like, five key behaviors, like, what would they be?Maureen: That's a good question. I would say definitely someone who--an inclusive leader is someone who's a good listener, and I don't mean someone who's just gonna kind of listen and say, "Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay, next," but someone who's really going to listen to what you have to say, someone who's able to replay that back to you, right? Recap that and say, "Okay, I understand. So tell me, what would you like me to do next? How would you like me to proceed?" So not just listen, but then understand. Get to understand what needs to happen next. Second thing is be a great giver of feedback. It's really, really important to give feedback, because feedback really, truly is a gift, but it's also important to get feedback. So I always encourage leaders that I work with not to feel like they're--because they're in a quote-unquote "leadership role" that they're just supposed to be the people that give feedback. No, it has to be reciprocal, and they have to not only ask for feedback, but then they have to ask follow-up questions so that they can understand what is it that they're doing well or not doing so well so that they themselves can change and evolve their own behaviors. The third thing I would say is an inclusive leader should be somebody who's able to pay it forward. So be able to reach back, reach to the sides, reach wherever and pull somebody along, take somebody along for the journey that they're on, because it helps that individual learn and grow in their own respect, and, you know, I always tell leaders, "You didn't get here by yourself." Let's just be real about some things. You took the same journey that now this individual behind you is also trying to take. So do the right thing, and if you've got somebody that you know wants to move in the same career path or maybe they want to do something different but could use your guidance and expertise, pull them along with you. The fourth thing I would say is an inclusive leader should be somebody who is able to truly bring a team together, and, you know, bring them together--I'm not saying bring them together for lunch. I'm talking about bring them together so that they have a good understanding of who they are as a team, what are the team goals, what are they striving for, and most importantly, as a team, understand what each of them individually are able to contribute and bring to the table, because it is the individual nuances that we all bring to an organization or a team that helps us to be a successful team. That's how we create inclusive products, inclusive services for our clients, is by bringing those innovative and inclusive voices to the table. So an inclusive leader should definitely be somebody who is able to bring a team together. And then the last thing I would say is that an inclusive leader needs to be very mindful of the fact that they are the ones who have the ear of the C-Suite, and so they need to be individuals who can listen and hear what's going on on the ground--so across their teams and other teams--and be able to articulate that and bubble that up to the top so that any issues or concerns that may be rising are things that they're able to squash before it becomes a bigger issue. They've got to listen in on what's happening at the ground level and be able to help manage, to help do some kind of change management or navigate the conversation so that it doesn't become a bigger issue. But if it's getting there, they should be the ones who are able to bubble it up to the top and then say, "Okay, so what can we do to mitigate this?" I think that's really it. Zach: Wow. Yeah, no, absolutely. Thank you so much. You know, you're just dropping bombs, dropping coins, as it were. Maureen: [laughs] Coins, yep. Mm-hmm.Zach: It's really helpful. I was trying not to cut you off 'cause I had, like, a couple of these... [Mario coin sfx] But I was like, "Let me just let her finish." [both laugh]Maureen: I'm sorry, I'm just going on forever.Zach: No, no, no. It's great. No, it's absolutely great. This has been a wonderful conversation, and thank you so much for hanging out with us. I know we went a little bit long. Before we let you go, any parting words, shout-outs?Maureen: Parting words and shout-outs? Parting words are, you know, just be the best human being that you can truly be, you know? Never take for granted where you are, because again, you didn't get here on your own. Really, really important to reach back and help others. And then any shout-outs I would give are simply to all of the people who are in the position, as you are, Zachary, to help get these kinds of messages out. Kudos to you, because this is not easy, you know? Doing what you do is not easy. Having these kinds of deep and courageous conversations isn't easy, so kudos to you, and then shout-outs to all of the people who are driving diversity and inclusion within their organizations, because, you know, we've got some work to do. People love to say to me, you know, "Well, you know, in your role, you're gonna have a job forever. It's job security." Here's the thing - I'm not sure I want to live in a world where the need to have a diversity and inclusion leader is job security, because that means that we are--that means two things. One, the world's continuing to evolve and, you know, the components of diversity continue to change. That's good. But two, it means that we're not doing everything that we could and should be doing to make this a more inclusive and global environment, and so I don't know if I want that job security. I want it to be where it's just very organic, you know? That we're not thinking about, "Well, you know, how do we hire black and brown people? Where do we go to get them?" No! It shouldn't be that way, and I know I've probably gone on way too long, but shout-outs to you, shout-outs to my peeps who are doing this day in and day out and are leading the charge right along with me, so.Zach: Come on, now. Let me get these air horns right here for that. [air horns sfx, both laugh]Maureen: Love that. Love it.Zach: Man, this has just been great, Maureen. Thank you so much. And listen, y'all, that does it for us on the Living Corporate podcast. You make sure you check us out on Twitter at @LivingCorp_Pod, Instagram at @LivingCorporate, and then, you know, you've got our website living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com. We also have livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.net. Maureen, we have all of the Living Corporates except livingcorporate.com. We have all of 'em, you know? You know, it's market dissemination. We're really out here. We're trying to make sure we get them SEO clicks.Maureen: Do your thing.Zach: Come on, now. We're trying to. Now, listen, y'all, y'all hear these conversations that we have. If y'all ever have questions y'all want to send in and, like, have us, us being the hosts or our guests, answer them, just send 'em on in. YOu know, DM us, email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com, you know, and we can just get it poppin' like that. Now, look, if you can't remember all of the different places I just said or where we are and where we're at and what we're doing, just Google Living Corporate. We out here like that. It's been, like, 130 something odd episodes, so we're now at the point where if you just Google Living Corporate, we'll pop up, okay? So you check us out, and until next time, this has been Zach, and you've been listening to Maureen Greene James, D&I leader for North America at Cognizant. Until next time, y'all. Peace.

On the tenth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, helps us effectively approach getting back into the job search game by sharing five tips that help manage the process a little better. On average, it takes five months to land a position. Don't give up, and keep pushing through the uncertainty!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha on Living Corporate. This podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I'm your host Latesha Byrd, so let's get into today's episode. So today we are talking about getting back in the game. For those that are searching for their next opportunity, I know just how hard and challenging it can be to push through the uncertainty. I often times relate job searching to the dating world. Like, for instance, let's say you go on a first date, you really hit it off, but he or she has not called you back. So you are sitting there wondering, "What the heck happened?" You know, "We had a good conversation. We have a lot of commonalities." You know, "We just really hit it off. Good vibes, good connections, all of that," but you are still uncertain about whether you should hit that person up or do you wait? You know, do you text first? You don't want to seem too interested, but maybe they're waiting for you, right? And so--[laughs]--dating is a whole game in itself, but the job search process is so similar to it, and so I know from experience--and also as a career coach and a former recruiter--just how hard it can be to really get back into the game and to get focused and to, you know, push through the unknown, you know? When it comes to searching for a job, you are having to just constantly put yourself out there and talk to different companies and, you know, some of them you may hear back from, some of them you may not, or you may, you know, interview, and you get really great feedback, and then it's crickets, right? But for some of those that maybe haven't applied or interviewed or had to search for anything, you know, in a really long time, the question is where do you start and how do you start? What do you need to start? You know, there are so many questions and things that go into it. So I'm here to tell you to, you know, don't give up. Don't give up. Keep pushing. Keep working through the uncertainty. Push through it anyways. On average, it takes five months to land a position. I've done a lot of research on this, on Forbes and CNN Money and all of those sites. The average amount of time that I'm seeing that it takes to land positions is five months. Now, some of my clients are able to land jobs pretty quickly, you know? In a month or two months, but for some, you know, it takes a little bit longer. And it's challenging because waiting to hear back from someone who literally has your future in their hands can be so painful, no matter how well you did in that interview, no matter how bomb your resume is, no matter how bomb your career coach is or even how great your network is. When it comes to landing a position with the company, that is something that you simply won't be able to control. And it likely will take a lot longer than you think to find something, and I'm not saying jumping at the first job offer that you get, but actually finding something worth value, something that is aligned with where you want to be professionally or grow professionally. So I have just a few tips that I wanted to share to help you manage this process a little bit better and to fully get back in the game. #1 - have you tapped into all of your resources? Have you tapped into all of your resources? Take an inventory. Take an inventory of your resources. Often times, we don't tap into people that we already know, such as family, our friends, college classmates or college professors. What about those professional associations or those organizations that you volunteer with in the community? Your peoples at church. [laughs] Your neighbors. The list goes on here, but sometimes we don't think about who we already know, 'cause you never know who knows someone else. So let's say I want to find a job as a management consultant, okay? So my neighbor may not be a management consultant or work for a management consulting firm, but what if his wife's cousin's--I don't know, I'm just--you know, y'all know how that whole wife's cousin's baby momma's hair dresser thing goes, right? [laughs] You just never know who knows someone. And this is a little bit unrelated to the job search, but in terms of a situation that happened to me recently, I was actually tapped for a speaking engagement with a TV or media news company in Virginia, and that connection came from my--this is gonna sound a little tricky, y'all [laughs]--but this came from my father's ex-wife's brother's ex-wife. Right? I didn't even know that she was watching, you know, what I was doing in my business. We had been connected on social media for, you know, a few years now, and it was one of those things where I said, "Man, you never know--" First of all who's watching you, and then number two you never know who knows who or who that person is that could be, you know, get you the key to the gate. So think about who you already know, and you've gotta tell people. Like, you have to tell people that you are actually seeking employment. Let the pride fall where it may, right? This is about utilizing your social capitol. You're not using people. You're not using your friends. You're not using, you know, those folks in your network, because this means that if--if they're able to help you land a job, you could probably help them in some way down the line in the future. So let the pride go and use your connections and ask for help. Ask your connections, as well, to match you with other connections. This is specifically related to LinkedIn. If you all have used the LinkedIn job board for your job search--which I highly, highly recommend, and this is why--because LinkedIn is gonna give you a lot more intel than literally any other job search platform out there. So for instance, if I'm looking--and I'm based in Charlotte, y'all. So, you know, big banking center here. So let's see you're looking at jobs at Wells Fargo and you find a position at Wells Fargo on LinkedIn. LinkedIn will show you who you are connected with that works at Wells Fargo, or it will show you who you're connected with that's connected with someone that works at Wells Fargo. That's why I freaking love the LinkedIn job board, for those connections solely. I had a client actually a couple weeks ago ask me to connect her with a talent acquisition manager at Credit Karma, which is also here in Charlotte. And she just reached out and said, "Hey, I see you're connected with..." She named the gentleman's name and said, you know, "Would you mind facilitating a connection?" And I was like, "What, girl? Heck yes." I have no problem with doing that. I didn't even know him. Now we are acquainted. We just happened to be connected on LinkedIn, but what she did is she was looking at particular companies she wanted to target, and I'm believing she looked for folks in talent acquisition or recruiting and was looking for mutual connections and saw that we were connected. So I was able to facilitate that connection. I reached out to him. I said, "Hey, I have a client who is an accounting operations finance executive. She is wanting to get connected for potential opportunities. Do you mind if I connect her to you?" And he responded immediately, like, "Yes, no problem at all." It is that simple. So #2 - don't be afraid to make new friends or make new connections. This is normal on LinkedIn. This is what LinkedIn is for. Again, LinkedIn is a social networking platform, so you should be socially networking. Look up recruiters. Look up talent acquisition managers. Look up people that are in positions you would ultimately like and just reach out to 'em. You may or may not hear back. It will, you know, take a lot of courage to reach out to them, you know? To say, "Hey, I'm actually interested in working for your organization," and, you know, what have you, because that shows a sign of vulnerability, right? When you have to ask someone for help. That's showing a sign of vulnerability, because that's a quote-unquote weakness, when you need help. I love, love, love Renee Brown. I love her books. I love her TED talk. I love her Netflix special. I just love everything about her. And she talks about vulnerability, and this is something that I talk to my coaching clients about all of the time. You know, vulnerability is--and the way Renee Brown says it, it's like getting in front of a crowd with no clothes on. [laughs] Getting in front of a crowd completely naked, and you are not sure how they are going to respond, but in that vulnerability there is a lot of courage, you know? There is a lot of bravery, because you're pushing through the fear, and you're doing what it takes anyways without even knowing what type of response it is you're gonna get back. So you gotta be brave here. #3 - be specific in what you're looking for. Don't keep it super broad when you're searching for opportunities. Like, for instance, if you are looking at marketing positions, get clear on what type of marketing positions, because there's a whole lot of marketing jobs out there. For example, is it public relations? Is it communications? Is it integrated marketing? Digital media? Et cetera. Quality over quantity is key. If you keep your job search broad or if you are looking for a broad range of roles, because you're not being specific in the key words you're utilizing, whoo--you're gonna be looking at thousands and thousands and thousands of jobs, and that can get really challenging. Well, not challenging, but overwhelming. So be as specific as possible. #4 is get deeper in your craft. Take time to develop more skills. Think about online courses. I love Lynda on LinkedIn. You know, there's Coursera. There's Udemy. There are so many, you know, ways that we can continue to get deeper in our craft and expand our knowledge, you know? I am a--I have a Ph.D from YouTube University, [laughs] so I am always, always, always looking up how to do things or how to develop certain skills on YouTube. It takes some time to get deeper in your craft while you are searching. #5 - brand yourself online. You know, as you are networking socially on this social networking site called LinkedIn, you've got to make sure you're branding yourself. That's gonna bring more attention back to your page. You know, my recommendation is to post three times a week. One of my clients, she is in HR, and she has been posting pretty regularly on LinkedIn, and her tweets--not tweets. Wow, I'm thinking about Twitter. [laughs] I love Twitter, y'all. Follow me. @Latesha_Byrd. But LinkedIn, she posts about three times a week, and some of her LinkedIn posts have gone viral, and through that--through the virality, she gets a lot of attention from recruiters reaching out to her, which is exactly what she wanted. So brand yourself online. You don't have to post, like, you know, all of these long, thoughtful, deep messages, you know? Just start posting articles related to what's going on in your industry, posting questions to kind of get folks thinking. You know, post a quote. You know, again, just post regularly. Start to brand yourself online. Set some boundaries with yourself. I promise you you don't have to spend two hours every single day looking at job boards. Those jobs are not going to grow legs and run away. So if you take a day off from searching for jobs, it is going to be okay. So set some boundaries with yourself. Maybe you only search for jobs three days a week - Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Maybe you do 30 minutes in the morning, you do 30 minutes at night. So, you know, don't go too hard, right? Because that job search fatigue is real and we've talked about that before. Get an accountability partner as well, someone that can hold you accountable, to make sure that you are applying to jobs, that you are networking, that you are posting online. Be very specific in the goals that you share with them, and you need someone that is actually really going to hold you accountable and that's going to encourage you and build you up. The last thing that I want to say here is be patient. Be patient with yourself. I am actually in the process of searching for a home. I'm looking to buy fairly soon, and if you have ever bought a home before, you know just how hard that process could be. And I had a friend that told me, "Delayed is not denied," you know? So again, just be patient with yourself. Finding your next best thing, it really will take some time, and I want you all to make sure that you are giving yourself some grace in this process and not taking every "no" you get or, you know, the silence, don't let that get to you and don't take it personal. You know, sometimes these jobs are filled internally. Another thing is that sometimes jobs are posted as a formality in the process, even though they already know who they are going to hire. They may have to just interview some folks, you know, to show that there was no bias, right? And so just know you never know. You really never know what's going on on the other side. So give yourself some grace. Be patient with yourself. Know that your job is out there. You have to--you have to--believe. So I hope that these tips helped you all today. Remember to push through the uncertainty. Just get out there. And I am always rooting for your success. I hope that you are able to land your dream job soon. And that is all I have. So I wish you all the best of luck as you are applying. If you enjoyed this topic, if you have any questions at all, if there's anything you actually want to hear on this podcast, then hit me up. I'm really easy to find - @Latesha_Byrd. L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore B-Y-R-D. You can find me on Twitter. You can find me on Instagram. LinkedIn, Facebook, all of the things. So thank you guys so much, and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

On the thirty-fourth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield shares a few ways to effectively advocate for yourself professionally throughout your career. Remember, closed mouths don’t get fed in this day and age. If we don’t advocate for ourselves in the workplace, who will?Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y'all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week we’re going to talk about a few areas where it’s essential for you to advocate for yourself throughout your career.In my coaching program, I talk to many clients who are unhappy with their careers but after asking a few questions I realize they aren’t taking ownership of their careers. Often, we get into roles and think that all of our work is going to speak for itself. Unfortunately, that’s a pretty big mistake. Managers are not only responsible for you but they’re also responsible for all of your colleagues and their own careers. So a big factor in the trajectory of your career is taking ownership so you can show why you deserve that raise, promotion, or new role.One of the things you can do to start advocating for yourself is to sell yourself on your resume. Employers look to your previous employment experience to determine what their return on invest in you is going to be. But if you can’t convey your value, how can you expect anyone else to understand what you’re bringing to the table? In order to do this, you have to start keeping track of your career highlights and accomplishments so you can translate the value of those in your resume.Another area where you can advocate for yourself is by asking for what you’re worth and believing it. Whether you’re negotiating your starting salary or requesting a raise, you have to BELIEVE you are worth that amount. Do your research and factor in your experience so you can have your own back. But also, once you get the job make sure to keep track of the work you’ve done so you can leverage it during your annual review which impacts your raise!The last area I’m going to highlight when it comes to self-advocacy is asking directly for what you want or need. When it comes to business, I find that directness is kindness. So if you’ve started a job and you’re still confused on certain processes, ask for more training. If you’re assigned a project but you’re unclear on what you’re responsible for, ask targeted questions about expectations and timelines. If there’s a position open that you want, ask for it or what you can do to land it.Remember, closed mouths don’t get fed in this day and age. If we don’t advocate for ourselves in the workplace, who will?This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, twitter, and facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach speaks with Lionel Lee, Zillow Group's Head of Diversity Engagement, and they discuss his unique personal career journey up to this point. Lionel details what influence and coalition-building look like in his position, and he also shares some of the things that he's been able to do at Zillow that he believes have helped to improve the sense of belonging and inclusiveness for black and brown folks in the workplace.Connect with Lionel on LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPTSheneisha: Hey, y'all. Sheneisha here with Living Corporate. As you know, we're about having real talk in a corporate world. With that in mind, before we get into this amazing discussion with Lionel Lee, we want to let you know this content makes mention of violence, which may be upsetting, so if you're listening with some little ones, discretion is advised. Zach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with the Living Corporate podcast, and of course you know what we do. We have interviews, conversations, right, that serve to amplify the voices of black and brown folks at work. And what do I mean by that? I mean we typically have black and brown folks, leaders, executives, creatives, entrepreneurs, you name it, on the show, having real conversations about real topics, and today is no different. We actually have with us today a very special guest. I'm very excited to speak with this person. I've been in contact with him for a little while, and I'm excited just to, like, get him on the show, 'cause, like, we've been texting, and then we talk on LinkedIn, and then, you know, we've been trying to coordinate. Even today we were coordinating back and forth. Lionel Lee. Lionel Lee is the head of diversity engagement at Zillow Group. He provides career development support to underrepresented employees and works with executives to develop equity and belonging policies to improve employee experiences. He also serves as a connecter between employees and community organizations. Prior to joining Zillow Group, he worked in talent acquisition, sourcing candidates across technology and banking industries. Okay, so really quick y'all, all of that to say he's by the people, for the people, you see what I'm saying? Okay. Helping communities has always been a constant throughout his life. Lionel has created and developed community groups that promote health and wellness. He's worked with HIV/AIDS education groups, substance abuse/addiction organizations, as well as health groups for youth. Lionel immigrated to the United States from Korea at age 5. His experiences growing up in south-central Los Angeles and later in the projects of Honolulu, Hawaii--I'm gonna ask a question about that in a little bit--helped nurture his passion for community building. With all that being said, Lionel, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Lionel: I'm doing well, man. Thank you. Appreciate it.Zach: Now, look, you know, of course I've got all of these questions for you and everything, but the first thing I gotta ask - you talked about the projects of Honolulu. Hawaii has projects?Lionel: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Honolulu has projects, and growing up there in the '70s and partial '80s, yeah, it was kind of rough, 'cause most people don't know about that, 'cause what they see about Honolulu and hear about Honolulu is it's just a paradise, but it's not really a paradise for all. You know, the level of poverty there, still to this day, is [amazing?], but back then it was like--where I grew up, in Kalihi--Kalihi is a town right outside of Waikiki, and it's--the projects are called Kuhio Park Terrace. We call it KPT, or Killer Park Terrace. Kill People Today. That's what it was, and I lived on the 16th floor, and I had to actually walk up the stairs to get to my apartment because there was a young lady that got her head cut off in the elevator, so the parents and kids, you know, catch the elevator. And then, you know, you have the same stuff that you have in a lot of different projects. You know, you have a lot of drug abuse, and, you know, you have people defecating in the stairwells. So that was the smell you walked into every single day. The crazy thing is that the dude that cut off the woman's head lived two doors down from me. And he kept it. Kept the head. Zach: What?!?!!!!!!????????????Lionel: He kept the head. But, um...Zach: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry. Wait, wait, wait. You said he kept the head?Lionel: He kept the head. He was--he was a Cambodian dude, and he was just mentally disturbed, you know? He just had some serious stuff going on, and he kept the head, and we found out, like, you know, two weeks after it had happened, you know? That was--it was a very different kind of place. Very violent. You can still look up--actually, you can go on YouTube and look up videos from Kuhio Park Terrace, and they'll show you videos of what it's like at KPT to this day.Zach: To this day. That is--that is--wow, that is shocking. I'ma tell you, you know, Lionel, in your short 3 minutes of being on the Living Corporate podcast, you have given us the most gangsta introduction we've ever had. And I'm not making light of anything. I'm just taken--I'm very taken aback by this. Wow.Lionel: Yeah, I don't have the typical--you know, I don't have the pedigree of someone that's in my position, definitely. I'm not--you know, I just wasn't raised like that. I wasn't--you know, I didn't think I was gonna go to college. I didn't go to college. I didn't get a degree. You know, I had to work and do all of that kind of stuff. It's just I was given certain opportunities and took advantage of every single one, you know? Made the very best that I could, and I've always had a tremendous work ethic, you know? Just, you know, been out of my house since I was 17 years old. I've lived in my car for, like, three days, just so I can be out here, you know, just doing my thing. You know, just doing my thing and just trying to keep it moving.Zach: Wow. Well, kind of to start there, let's talk a little bit about that. So you've started on that path, but kind of talk to us about your journey from Hawaii to the head of diversity and engagement at Zillow. What did that look like?Lionel: I was a gogo dancer at one time. That was pretty weird. I've done everything, man. Like, I can do stuff around my house--like, right now I'm remodeling my house, and my kids will be like, "Where'd you learn how to do that?" And I'm like, "Man, it wasn't nothing about learning. I just had to survive." Zach: Wait, wait, wait. So let's take a step back. You said you were--you were a what dancer?Lionel: I was a gogo dancer for a little bit. [Zach laughs] Yeah, when I was, like, young, you know, and that kind of stuff. So I was raised extremely religious. My grandfather is a Baptist minister, and I was raised in the church, so we didn't go out and do that kind of stuff a lot, you know? And I went to, like, school dances every once in a while, and I always liked to dance, so as soon as I got out of my house and, you know, I didn't have nobody telling me what I could and could not do, you know, I got caught up in the dance club scene for a while, and I was going there a lot, and the dude that owned the club, you know, he asked me one day if, you know, I'd want to just come in and, you know, get paid for it, right? But it was like--I don't know if you remember. I don't know how old you are, but--Zach: 29.Lionel: There was this one dance that I was really good at. It was The Prep. I don't know if you remember what The Prep is.Zach: Nah, what's The Prep?Lionel: It's just a dance that, you know, like, a lot of black folks did, you know, back then. You know, I'd have to show it to you in order for you to know what it was, but people around my age group, they know what that dance is, and I was really good at it. You can be extremely creative with it, you know? So the dude just kind of, you know--and I didn't paid, like, a lot. It was--like, that was my part-time gig. My full-time gig was, you know, managing the Church's Fried Chicken, which was down the street from the club, right? So after work at Church's Fried Chicken I would shoot over there, and back then they would throw some, you know, neon sweater or some shit on me, and then I'd get on there and, you know, do my thing. [both laugh] So yeah, that's a snippet of my background, but the way that I got into where I'm at now is--the funny thing is I met a dude on a basketball court, right, like, when I was in my late twenties, and it was one of those stereotypical things, you know? I got into a fight with this dude on the basketball court, you know? Like, you know, you get into a fight on the basketball court, they find out you can fight, and then all of a sudden everybody wants to be your friend, right? So dude wanted to be my friend. He was a white dude, and I had never had too much interaction with white people honestly, and definitely not on a personal, you know, like, friendship level. That just wasn't the way I was raised. So I was kind of cautious, and at that time I worked for an organization called Street Outreach Services, and it was an HIV/AIDS prevention organization. It was led by this amazing sister from Brooklyn. Her name was Amani Wood. She recently passed, like, a couple years ago, and I consider her one of the strongest individuals I've ever met and was lucky enough to have her as a mentor for a very large portion of my life. But anyway, she and I were working together, and then I came up with this crazy idea that what we should be doing is we should be documenting, you know, crack addicts and crack dealers under the age of 18, 'cause that's a group that we were not capturing. So the city of Seattle liked the idea. My organization liked the idea. So I ended up doing that for about 2.5 years. So I was going into crack houses and stuff, like, you know, at 3:00 a.m., you know, 4:00 a.m., and dealing with a whole bunch of kids, and I dealt with the kids--I mean, I had one sister, her name was Beautiful, literally, and she was 13 years old, you know? She was 13 years old with a baby and she was a crack addict, and she was a crack dealer. So, you know, I had to deal with that, and that kind of stuff is emotionally extremely taxing, and the--I just couldn't do it as--I couldn't put as much of myself into it as I was, so I was starting to get burnt out, and dude--you know, he was a recruiter, this white dude that I had met, right? He was like, "Hey, you ever thought about, like, recruiting?" And I was like, "I don't even know what that is, man." And he brought me up to his office to show me what he did, and, like, a lot of young black men and young black women and kids that come from, you know, lesser economic areas, you know, when I saw a computer I thought, "Nah, I can't do that," you know? 'Cause, you know, "Computers are magic, right?" They're not meant for me. They're meant for, like, geniuses, right? You know, "Black kids can't do math." You know, "Black kids can't do this kind of stuff," and I bought into a lot of that. I bought into a lot of that kind of stuff. But I had a two-year-old child, so I had to do something, you know? 'Cause I wasn't making enough money, and I wanted him to have a better lifestyle than I did growing up. So I took him up on it, and, you know, I shot across the bridge over into Bellevue from Seattle, and then--I don't know if you know Seattle, but in Seattle you have east side and west side, and when you go across that bridge, man, it's completely different. Extremely affluent. Very, very white. You know, as a brother back in the, you know, '90s, you couldn't be on that side if you weren't an athlete, right, or somebody else, you know, that they recognized, because if you were a black person that they didn't recognize, the cops would give you a hard time. Like, literally. They would follow you around and stuff, right? But I went over there and I interviewed, and I interviewed with, like, nine blonde-haired, blue-eyed women, man, sitting around the table. I was like, "Man, I don't know if I want to do this," and they offered me the job, you know? And I was like, "Whoa, what do I do now?" And at that same time I was actually interviewing with the fire department, and walking out of that office--I drove, like, this beat up 1984 Volvo, you know? And when I say it was beat up, I mean it was *beat up*. There was 100 and something thousand miles on it. The paint was peeling, you know? That kind of stuff, you know? I put on the best clothes that I had at that time.Zach: That was a bucket.Lionel: It was a bucket. Man, it was a buck-et. And I'm walking out, and every car in the parking lot was like Mercedes, Audis, BMWs, you know, that kind of stuff, and I was like, "I don't know, maybe I can do this." And so I accepted and started there, and struggled, man--I struggled a lot. I mean, I struggled so bad the first three months. There's a very large organization. It's called EDP Contract Services. Now I think they're called TAC Worldwide, and it's one of the largest recruiting organizations in the world. At that time, I forget exactly how many people they had, but I know that at one time I was ranked, like, something like 2000th or something out of the company of recruiters, and by the time--I had to make a decision at one point because--you know, because I was basically told that I could be pretty successful in this if I got the street out of my voice, right? So I started [?]--you know, I went home and was, like, frustrated over it, you know? And my girl at that time, she was pretty hood too, so she was like, "[BLEEP] them. You know, we can sue them. Blah, blah, blah, blah," you know? But I went to bed with my two-year-old son, you know, and I was like, "Man, I've got to do something." So I made up my mind. You know, I made up my mind that okay, well, this is what I'm gonna do, and I walked into the office the next day--I got there at 6:00 in the morning. Nobody was there. And I didn't leave until, like, 8:00 at night, and then I did that for, like, a whole year, and I became #2 in the company, and my income went up something like 300% in a year. Zach: Goodness gracious.Lionel: Mm-hmm. And so I figured out that yeah, I can do this. And then I went to--excuse me, sorry. I went to San Francisco right after that. I got recruited by a staffing firm there. I didn't like them too much, so I started my own staffing firm. We did $2.5 million in our second year of business, and that was just, like, you know, three of us, right? And then we added some people on and that kind of stuff. Then I came back to Seattle and, again, you know, got recruited by another company and became the manager for recruiting for a startup during the dot-com era. I was killing it there, then the dot-com bubble burst, and then I went to Washington Mutual as their diverse executive recruiter, and that was probably one of the worst work experiences I've ever had, 'cause what happened--what happened was they wanted this person, but one of the head people in this department didn't want this person. They didn't feel the need for a diversity executive recruiter. So they waited for her to go on maternity leave and then, behind her back, hired me, right? So my first day of work I'm walking down the hall and this woman walks up to me and she goes, "Who are you?" And I said, "Oh, I'm Lionel Lee." And she goes, "Well, what do you do?" And I said, "Well, you know, I run diversity executive recruitment here," and she just looked at me, and I got this, like--it was chilling. Like, this look was crazy, and then the next thing I know, man, like, seven months later or eight months later, you know, maybe close to a year later, you know, the whole group was disbanded and we all had to leave and, you know, go do our own thing. And it was kind of crazy too. The way that they told you was, you know, they asked you to come in for an early morning meeting. I went in for an early morning meeting and they had HR there, and they said it's disbanded.Zach: So where does Zillow come into play?Lionel: 2007 hit, man. 2007, 2008, 2009, you know, and I went through all of my money, and I had to get back to work, you know? So I joined a really small recruiting firm that was, you know, bullshit. They didn't know what they were doing. [both laugh] But then there was this other recruiting firm that I really wanted and I went and joined them, and they were amazing, and--that's one of the crazy things too, the dude that hired me--he's, like, this really young--comparatively. I think he's, like, you know, close to 40 now--Republican white dude, right? And he hired me on to the company, and I go in there and I'm on the phone the first day, and he said "Hey, Lionel, can I [?] you for a second?" And I was like, "Yeah, what's up?" And he goes, "Man, who the hell is that on the phone?" And I was like, "What are you talking about?" He goes, "Do you know you sound white?" And I was like, "What?" He goes, "Yeah. When you talk to me normally, you know, we're fine, but whenever you get on the phone you sound white," and it's because of what I learned in the earlier part of my career.Zach: Code switching, man. Yeah.Lionel: I was code switching. And I told him, "Well, you know, that's how--" And he goes, "Nah, man. I don't think that's why you're successful. I would really love to see you be you. I got enough white dudes in my office. That's why I hired you." [Zach laughs] And I was like, "Oh, okay," and then I started really, like, trying to understand what just happened, and the reason I ended up here at Zillow Group--I stayed there for, like, five years, six years, right? And I ended up killing it there. I was always either #1 or #2. And the reason I ended up here is that the person who had hired me on at Washington Mutual, she became the vice president of talent acquisition here at Zillow, and she--I started my own company after a while, again, right, and she was one of my clients, and she asked me to come in, and she said, "Lionel," you know--this was, like, 2016. "Lionel, we're really trying to do this diversity thing, man, but we don't know what we're doing." You know, "Would you want to help us?" And I said, "Well, I can put something together." You know, I talked about it with them a little bit. They wanted me to do it. I couldn't dedicate time to it 'cause I had my own staffing firm at that time and my staffing firm was doing extremely well, but what happened was that it kind of grabbed a part of me that I didn't know really existed. My experience in tech as a black man was horrible. I mean, it was horrible, so I decided that, you know, by doing this I would be given an opportunity to better the experiences of other people that are underrepresented in the tech space, right? 'Cause when I was starting out, you know, there was no other. You know, there was me. There was me, and I was probably the only one that I knew with the exception of, like, one or two that worked in other agencies. But it was me, right? And it was horrible. I hated it. I mean, I couldn't--there was no way that I could tell somebody that "Yeah, this is a good day." I woke up every single day begrudging going to work, and eventually I was able to push down to the point where I didn't realize that, you know, there was a part of me that was always anxious, right? And that's when I got a chance to change, you know, within this organization, and then what I'm hoping for is that this organization will be--you know, will be, like, a beacon for others to take a look at, right? Like, "What did they do to make a difference?" Right? 'Cause we did. We changed how we are as a company. We've changed the way that we're perceived. You know, people want to come to work here, you know? That kind of thing, and, you know, the brown and black folks here are much happier now than they were. We know that because I'm very data-driven, and we took some surveys and things like that that let us know that the things we're doing are working. But that's how I ended up in this position. And I was a consultant at first, and they--you know, we talked about 20 hours a week. 20 became 40. It became 60. It became an obsession, you know? Because I--you know, I was like, "Ooh, I get a chance to--"Zach: Really move the needle in some way, yeah.Lionel: Yeah. Not just move the needle, but, you know, just--you know, we talk a lot in those kind of terms, right? Like, "move the needle," you know, that kind of stuff, and the way that I looked at it was never really like that, you know? The way that I was looking at it was, you know, "Improve the day-to-day experience of the underrepresented worker going into the tech space." That was my--that's my driver, right? The way that I describe what I do is that my job is to make sure that everybody that comes to work is happy and feels like they belong. That's my job. That is my job, and I--I don't like to say I love my job, because I don't think in that way, but I'm extremely proud of what we've done here at Zillow Group. I'm extremely proud, and I'm hoping to continue on this path and, you know, continue to make us an employer of choice.Zach: [applause sfx] I mean, what can I say? I mean, I hear you. This is incredible. Look, I have another question, but I want to get into this really quick though. You talked about some of the things that y'all are doing here and, like, they've been serving well. What are some of those things that you've been able to do at Zillow that you believe have helped to improve the sense of belonging and inclusiveness for black and brown folks? Lionel: Well, that was the thing, right? 'Cause one of the things that they had asked me to do was go out and find best practices, and the crazy thing is that there were no best practices 'cause nobody was really killing it. Nobody's numbers said that they were killing it, right? So I had to come up with my own stuff, but what that gave me was green fields. So I could do a couple things. So one of the first things that I did is I was walking through the office one day--and we had this wall of speakers, right? And the speakers--I looked at that wall, and it's a pretty big wall of all of these, you know, headshots of all of these speakers that we've had come into the office, and I was like, "Damn, every single person on there is white." Like, literally. Like, every single person on there is white except for one brother that we had, and of course he was a football player, right?Zach: Of course. Of course.Lionel: Right? And I was like, "Come on, man." You know? So I changed that immediately. That was one of my goals, to change that, and I did that. You know, we brought in people like Van Jones. We brought in people that were from the Islamic community. We brought in people from the Latinx community. Totally changed that whole landscape, right? And then we started talking about, like, just simple things like events, you know? Because that's one of the things that tech companies are known for, right? We have these crazy-ass parties where everybody has a good time, but not everybody gets down like that, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't grow up that way, you know? I don't go out and--you know, I'm not one of those people that like to [imbibe?] in that way and that's how I party. That's not how I do. I like the music. I like to dance. I like that kind of stuff, you know? And I'm not saying that we're all the same, but there are certain foundational pieces that make us a little bit the same. [?], right? And so we started throwing, like, parties, but I would tell the dudes that came in--I started going out and creating relationships with external organizations that were representative of underrepresented groups within our company. So we had professional organizations that I went and made agreements with, and then they would come in and they would throw the parties. And they asked me, they said, "Well, how black do you want this to be?" [both laugh] And I was like, "I want it to be as black as you want to make it."Zach: Right. It needs to be black black, with a Q.Lionel: It needs to be, 'cause you have people here from, you know, predominantly black areas, right? You've got a kid that grew up in a predominantly black area. He goes to an HBCU, you know, does really well there, and then all of a sudden he's thrown into this, right, where he's one of--I think we're at, like, 9% or something like that, right? We're still improving in that area, right? And then he's just got to, like, hang out and do what these guys do? You know, why don't we give him some of what he had back home? You know, why don't we create a sense of community for him, you know what I mean? And we did that, and then we started taking a look at some of the things--and it's all from my own experience, right? One of the things that really bothered me is, like, when all of the brothers was getting shot, you know, I felt completely alone in the office, and I had nobody to talk to about it, right? And what we did is we started--we created a forum here where people can--when things like that happen, for example when the El Paso shooting happened recently, you know, we had a forum here inside the office where people from the Latinx community could get together, along with people that were not from that community but allies that were in positions of power and strength here at the company, we all got together and we had a conversation, and we, you know, basically video-taped everybody in from all the other offices, and we had this, you know, straight up conversation about what this feels like, and that made a difference in people's experience, right? And then we talked about "How do we do our recruiting?" We started taking a look at--I started taking a look at how we do the recruiting in the first place, right? Many of our people that come on board come on from internships, so how do we effect that? Well, we start creating more relationships with organizations that are representative of us. So we started a relationship with NSBE, the National Society of Black Engineers. We started a relationship with SHPE, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, right? And then we put into practice talking to the CTO, the chief technology officer, who is just--you know, he's cool, he's just really cool, and I gave him an a-ha moment when I took him to AfroTech, like, two years ago.Zach: Oh, yeah. Shout-out AfroTech. Shout-out Blavity. Yeah, yeah, yeah.Lionel: Yeah, by Blavity, right? And I took him--he was one of the only white dudes there, and I was like, "Look, you know, I'm gonna introduce you to some people. You're gonna have some good conversations, and then we're gonna talk about it afterwards," and he was like, "Cool," but he walks in and there's THOUSANDS of black people, man. Where people were telling him, "Oh," we can't be found, which is bullshit. Zach: It is, man. No, it is. It is so annoying, Lionel. Well, it's annoying and it's insulting and it's racist, right? So you said, "Well, we can't find this talent"--like, we're all over, and, like, look, AfroTech is an obvious one, but man, there are also, like, a lot of, like, local, like, groups, right? Like, there's all--if you go to any major city, there's some grassroots coding group that is black and brown, right? And honestly, even if you just take the time and look in the PWIs that you're recruiting, if you just look one more time, they're there too. Like, we're here. Lionel: Right, right. So what we did--he saw that, and we came back and he was like, "What do we do?" And I said, "Well, let's figure out some strategies," and what we started doing is we started making--'cause Boeing has doing been this forever, but Boeing's been going to NSBE and making offers on the spot, right? And so it was like, "Okay, well, let's do that," and we started doing that, and we started increasing our numbers because of that, right? And then those kids that were coming in as interns, we started converting them to full-time, and then on top of it their experience as workers here is real cool because, like, I'll walk by, you know, and I'll talk to 'em and be like, "Hey, what's happening, brother?" You know? "How you doing?" And they'll look at me like--Zach: Even that alone, which is small, right? It's huge to them.Lionel: It's small. It's really, really small, but it's so important, right? People gotta feel like they feel belong. People gotta feel like they're appreciated, right? That's what has to happen, and that's what we started doing. That's one of the things. I could go on and on, man. We've done--when I say I'm proud of the work that we've done here, I'm extremely proud of the work that we've done here.Zach: Rightfully so.Lionel: Yeah. The executives have been fully on board. You know, we also do this other thing where we understand the C-level, the C-Suite, has to be on board. So we do a thing called the MB Learning Series, which is twice a month. You know, we get together, myself, the senior VP of community and culture, and some other key individuals that are well-versed in this space. We'll get together with a bunch of people from the C-Suite, and we'll sit down and we'll talk for about an hour, an hour and a half, about whatever it is, right? It could be a current event that has impacted an underrepresented group, or it could be about something that they've encountered themselves, right, that they want to know more about, right? So we work with them, and they get to learn, they get to learn what's happening, and it changes their perspective and it changes the way that they go out and approach things and make decisions, right? We have our CEO--our CEO is, like, one of the only CEOs where, you know, in his signature file, you know, he has his pronouns, right? Because that's important, you know, to understand that not everybody identifies in that way. Understanding that people identify differently is extremely important, 'cause it puts you in a different place in your learning, in your journey, and that's how we got here. I mean, there's--you know, I could go on and on, but that would take up your whole segment.Zach: No, no, no. This is great, and look, Lionel, we'll just have you back. It's not a problem, man. We'll just have you--[both laugh] You'll just come on back. But it's interesting, really quickly, about the pronoun point, right? So, you know, some research that Living Corporate has been doing, you know what I'm saying, on our whitepaper--if you check us out on the website, you know, you'll see us on there, and we talk about the fact that, you know, 14% of millennials identify as trans or non-binary, right? So it's a real statistic.Lionel: Oh, it's a real statistic. It's real. And, you know, there's so many different groups of other people that do not feel like they belong. You know, they just--you know, especially with the current climate in our country today. That kind of stuff, the divisiveness of our country today, and, you know, we just--we want to make sure, in our company--and we've been voted, like, one of the best places to work forever, right? ["ow" sfx] Forever. But what was not being considered was that not everybody felt that way. It was not the best place to work for everyone. We found that out through our data, you know? We pulled some data that showed us that. So our goal is to make this the best place to work for everyone, and we don't--I mean, we look at everyone and make sure that they're taken care of. And we started our ERGs here two years ago. We dedicated a lot of resources to it. It has its own program manager that manages everything. That's his full-time gig. That's what he does to make sure that, you know, they're good. You know, we have all of the infrastructure in place for that. They're fully capitalized. Yeah. We do--you know, we do a lot of stuff here that a lot of companies don't do, and I think a lot of it just has to do with the fact that we've been following best practices. 'Cause, like I said, we didn't find any, so we had to create our own.Zach: No, that's incredible, and you're absolutely--this is the thing. It's so interesting because as commercialized and, I'm gonna say it, colonized as diversity and inclusion has become, right, like, as a space, when it comes to actually delivering and doing the work, we're still very much so in our infancy, right? Like, there's not a blueprint for anything.Lionel: No. No, there isn't, and that's--yeah, I would agree with you that there is a lot of stuff in our space that, you know, I kind of, like, look at three or four times too, you know? Like, "Really? That's what we're gonna do now?" [Zach laughs] But that's the thing, you know? Let's be creative, you know? Let's figure it out, and for me it was very personal, you know? That's why, you know, a lot of the stuff that we did here was me imagining me, you know, sitting there at work. You know, what would I want? You know, when I first started in this stuff, what would I want? I'd want to be able to come into work and feel like I can be the best me possible, right? But I don't have to, like, play by nobody else's rules about how I talk, how I walk, and all of those kinds of things. I don't believe that people should or can bring their whole selves to work. I don't believe in that. I think that, you know, there's some shit you need to leave at home, right? [both laugh] I don't believe--you know, like, my grandmother used to tell me, you know, "Tell some. Keep a lot." You know what I mean? You don't need people knowing everything, right?Zach: Yeah, keep going.Lionel: You should be able to be comfortable when you go to work. You shouldn't have to code switch as much. You shouldn't, you know, have to wonder about your place there as much, you know what I mean?Zach: I do. You're 100% right, yeah. Lionel: Yeah, that's what we did. Zach: You said, "Share a little bit. Keep a lot." But you're right though, and some of that, Lionel, is cultural, right? So, like, I would say black and brown folks--and I'll just speak for my experience. Like, I was raised, you know, you keep your business to yourself, right? Like, there's certain things, where as then, you know, there's stereotypes that white folks love to just tell everything they got going on. They'll talk about the medication they're taking, if they're depressed, you know? They'll share everything. But you're right, like, I'm not tripping on--I don't necessarily--my quote-unquote "whole self," like, I don't have to do that, but I should feel comfortable--right, I should not feel uncomfortable and dread going to work or feel like, man, just so otherized to the point where I can't even function.Lionel: Exactly, and being othered is real, and it's difficult for people to see that, you know? Like, "Oh, we're paying you," you know? "I don't know why you don't feel appreciated," you know? It's that kind of stuff, and it's like, "Man." You know, if I'm coming into work and I can't wait to get home--not because, you know, I just don't want to be at work for whatever reason, but just because I don't feel comfortable and when I get home is when I feel comfortable? Or I'm dreading going to a company event because I don't feel comfortable? You know, that's a problem. That's a problem. That's why there's more brothers and sisters that are consultants than full-time employees in the tech space.Zach: Man... listen. Oh, my goodness. So look, Lionel, you gonna have to come back, because I've got, like, four more topics we can talk about, [laughs] but you're 100% right, right? Like, you think about, like, it's these temporary, transient roles, right, that give you space, but then also, like--they give you space to kind of move around and not get too uncomfortable in these environments. Man, not to mention the pattern where I'm seeing a lot of black and brown folks are in these, like, non-client-facing positions. Like, they'll typically in, like, the security tech roles, but let me not even--let me not step on too many toes today. Let's keep going though. I want to respect your time. Let's get into how you and I connected. So of course, you know, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm active active on there, but I seen you on there, and you sent me a link about a project you're working on, which really got my attention, and I'd love to--I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that as well as--and just kind of your passion and interest as to why you're doing the work that you're doing on it.Lionel: Yeah. I think you're referring to the microaggressions survey that we sent out.Zach: That's right. Lionel: So Rebekah Bastian is the VP of Community and Culture here. She's my boss, right? I have a direct line to her and then a [?] line to the chief people officer. She and I sit right next to each other. It's an open kind of space. And she's a contributing writer for Forbes. So she was writing this thing on microaggressions, and I was like, "Let me read that," and I read it, and it talked about microaggressions towards women, right, and more microaggressions towards women, and I was like, "Man, that's crazy," you know? Because we suffer from microaggressions. And she was like, "You do, I know that." And I was like, "Yeah, I know you know that, but, you know, there's no data around it. Why don't we do our own survey?" You know, 'cause we couldn't find no data, right? We did the research and whatever, and she was like, "Yeah, I would love to write something on that, but, you know, I can't find any data," and I said, "Well, let's create our own data, you know?" So she put a survey together, and I sent it out to my network, which is pretty broad, and then many of my--that's one thing I want to thank everybody for, including yourself, you know? Many of them sent them out to their networks too. Like, "Hey, you know, this is happening. Let's talk about this." Right? And yeah, I came back and--I think we're gonna try and do this, like, yearly, and try to go even deeper, 'cause I think that it was a great introduction, but I think that we could have covered a couple areas that, you know, people really don't want to cover. But it's important, right? 'Cause I know that I suffer for them still today on a daily basis. I have to check somebody in a meeting or, you know, I also have to be mindful about certain things, right, you know, that they don't have to, you know? When I say them, I mean, like, white folks that are in my same position or at the same level that I'm at, right? And yeah, we still go through it, and it's difficult. You know, it's difficult, and we had to put that information together ourselves 'cause we couldn't find any.Zach: Well, to that point though, why do you think that I&D programs--so I have a bevy of my own theories, right, but why do you think, when we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, we don't zoom in on black male or brown male experiences specifically?Lionel: I don't think people really want that wake-up call yet, you know what I mean? I think that people want to imagine that "Hey," you know, they got to this particular spot in their career, you know, they're making this particular amount of money, you know, they should be happy, right? But they don't know that for a lot of us--I mean a lot of us, man, a lot of us--you know, we have to deal with [BLEEP] on a daily basis that they never have to deal with, they never have to deal with. But nobody really wants to put light on that, you know? 'Cause then that would mean that we have to do some more work, and I think people don't want to do that, you know? I think that, you know, people try and find the easiest and fastest way to get to a certain point, right? But when we're talking about something that's this complicated and this nuanced, it's gonna take some work. It's gonna take some serious work, and--what is it--the implicit bias trainings and all of those kinds of things, you know, that's, like, the tip of the iceberg. Nobody wants to.Zach: No, they don't. And it's aggravating too, because even--so I've talked to--so in my current job, and then at previous jobs too, but, like, I have mentors here, and I've [?]--you know, what I find frustrating about us always running into implicit bias is that it makes the presumption that all bias is accidental or unconscious, right? And it's like, "No." Some of y'all actively don't want black and brown people here. Like, come on. It is 20--it is the age of our Beyonce, 2019. We know the deal. [both laugh] We know where people align politically. Like, more than ever we have direct insight into political idealogies, beliefs, and points of view on race, gender, sex, religion, sexuality. Like, we know all these things, so, like, let's not act like everything is "Oh, I stumbled across this racist thing." Like, come on. That's not the reality. So let me ask you this as we kind of wrap up. What are some of the challenges that you've come across as a black executive leader within an I&D space? 'Cause you're the second person. You're only the second person in one of these positions that I've met that is a black man. So you're in this position, right? Typically I see folks in this position are white women and maybe even white women who identiy as LGBTQ, right? As a black man, what does influence and coalition-building look like in your position?Lionel: Influence and coalition-building in my position? Well, one is--you know, one, you've got to have allies. I don't believe that we're in a position right now, that we have the power right now, to be able to make the change that we need to make without powerful allies, right? But at the same time, those powerful allies are working with biases themselves, so you need to make sure that you're training them up, mentoring up with them, to make sure that when they are supporting you that they're supporting you effectively and they know where it's coming from. I agree with you in many ways that, yeah, I don't necessarily think--well, let me change that. I don't believe that bias is a strong enough word for one thing. Two, I don't believe that it is all implicit. I do think that some people are just that way, and they just believe, you know, all of the propaganda and rhetoric that has been going on in the United States forever about us, right? And coalition-building really means getting rid of some of that, you know? Doing the, you know, behavioral change and thought change is important, you know? That kind of thing has to happen before people can really try to support you, because they have to understand that they are being affected, and their actions are being affected, by things that they've been taught for most of their lives in the United States, you know? The United States, man, we're--this is a country built on racism. This is a country that's, you know, built on the backs of us, you know? Whether you're Asian, Latino, Native-American, you know, that's what this country is built on. [to this day sfx]Zach: Straight up.Lionel: To this day.Zach: To this day!Lionel: To this day, right? To this day, and we have to get to a place where we recognize that. We have to get to a place where we're not okay with it. It is something that we're ashamed of, but it's something that we're gonna admit, right? That this is what's going on with us, and we need to move forward from here. That's coalition-building, you know? Getting people to really understand the mistakes that were made. Fess up to them. Own up to them. Make some changes, right? [?]Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] Man, I love it. And, you know, this is the thing--you're the first person who I've had a conversation with who talks about the fact that coalition-building is not only bringing things in but also pushing things away, right? It's both. I love that. I love that. Well, look, let's do this. If you had three points of advice for any leader seeking to specifically recruit and engage black men, what would they be?Lionel: Make sure that what you want to invite them to is welcoming of black men. Do that, right? I mean, don't ask me to come to your house if your house is falling apart. Don't do that. Like, make sure your outline's right first, right? Make sure that you work with recruiting to help them to understand that, yes, they are out there, you're just gonna have to work a little bit harder. Make sure that you work with your executive staff to make sure that they're on board with whatever programs that you put in place so that you can make sure that you keep people once they get there. Zach: I love it. Just like that. And listen, y'all, you heard Lionel's advice, so we looking at you now. So you're gonna come around trying to invite black and brown men to your organizations, and we're looking back at you like [haha sfx]. Look, don't play yourself. Pay attention. This has been great, Lionel. Before we get out of here, any parting words or shout-outs?Lionel: No, man. Thank you for having me. You know, we've got a lot of work to do. You know, we're nowhere near where we could be, and a lot of this is about the economic divide, the wealth gap, and it's just gonna get wider and wider and wider. We've got to get on, you know, our bikes, man. We've got to get to work, you know, 'cause--we've got to get to work. We've got to get to work.Zach: Well, they're projecting that the median wealth of black families from a household perspective will be zero dollars, like, by 2050 or so, so you're absolutely right. We gotta--man, Lionel, this has been--like, no shade to everybody else, y'all, this has been top two dopest conversations we've had on Living Corporate. Thank you so much for being a guest. We very much so want to have you back. We'll talk about that offline. Until next time, y'all, this has been Zach. You've been listening to Lionel Lee at the Zillow Group. Make sure you check out all of his information. Links in the show notes. Catch y'all next time. Peace.

On the ninth entry of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, talks to us about five things she thinks we should consider when pursuing our dream job or just that next best move we can make. You're bringing a lot of things to the plate - your experience, your expertise, your skills - so it's important to make sure that these companies are really delivering that value right back to you!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I am here with Living Corporate, and today we are talking about five things to consider as you are pursuing your dream job. That's right, talking about pursuing your dream job or your ideal job or the next best move that you can possibly make or--for any type of job opportunity or career path that you are considering, here are five key tips. And this is extremely important because I realized that so many of us really go about this job search process all wrong. For instance, we get our degree--I'll just choose marketing as an example. We'll get our marketing degree, then we just are looking for marketing jobs without thinking about "Is this something that I will actually enjoy? Will it fulfill me? Will I love it?" We're just out here applying to the jobs that we think we can get an interview for, things that, you know, we meet the qualification for, but do these careers actually qualify us, or should we be qualifying them? When you are thinking about the job search process and as it relates to landing an opportunity, it is a transactional relationship. With that being said, you are being paid for your experience, your expertise, your skills. If you have listened to this podcast, you know I've preached on this all of the time, but you're bringing a lot of things to the plate, so it's important to make sure that these companies are really delivering that value right back to you. So as you are thinking about what your next job will look like, I have five tips for you, and the first one is - will this company allow you to live the lifestyle that you ultimately want to live? With that being said, do you want to be able to work flexible hours? I'm a very independent person, just thinking about my personal work style. If you give me something, you give me a task, I'll take it, I'll run with it. Now, you have some others that, like, really emphasize collaboration every step of the way. Not saying that I'm not collaborative. [laughs] I just kind of like doing my own thing, and I'll explain that a little bit later. So just thinking about the type of lifestyle that you want. Do you want to work flexible work hours? I actually don't even really buy into this "work from home" thing anymore. I like the "work from anywhere" model, you know? So let's say I'm traveling [and] I want to go--me and my friend, we actually went to Chicago for a week in August, and, you know, she was--she wanted to go out of town for a week. Her job was flexible and allowed her to do that. So, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I typically can kind of go and choose to work where and how I please, and so I said, "Hey, girl. I'm coming on this trip with you to Chicago," and we just went to Chicago for a week and, you know, got an Airbnb and just worked, just for a change of scenery. Will your job allow you to kind of live that lifestyle if you do like to be on the go-go-go. With that being said, if you do like to travel, get a job that will give you those travel opportunities, you know? When I worked in recruiting--and that was what I did prior to becoming a full-time entrepreneur. As I was growing my coaching practice I was a recruiter for an accounting firm, managing recruiting for about five offices up and down the East Coast, and through that job I was able to travel up and down the coast, from D.C., Virginia, Atlanta--I went out to Vegas for a few conferences. So a very, very cool experience, and I love to be able to travel. So think about the lifestyle that you want. Will that company, will that job, allow you to do that? We all know that there are certain positions that are a little bit more--that are travel-based, you know? Maybe you have clients all over the states or you have clients internationally that will you require you to have some face time with your clients. So, you know, if you like to travel, that might be a type of job that you would want to consider. You know, consulting, there's so much travel involved in that, and a lot of other types of, you know, opportunities out here that will allow you to do that type of trouble. The second is D&I, or I'll say DE&I. Or is it DEI? [laughs] Diversity, equity, and inclusion. We hear this talk about company culture, right? Making sure that, you know, "You need to be with a company that has a great culture and everyone likes each other." I really think it boils down to "Does this company have innovative DEI initiatives, practices? Are they not just talking the talk, but are they walking the walk?" If a company is really focused on that, their culture is going to be reminiscent of or reflective of, you know, the effort that they actually put behind it, and that's extremely important to me. You know, thinking about--I am a black woman. I want to see black women in leadership roles. It would be great to see them in roles that I aspire to. And, you know, not just black women, but I want to work in teams where I get to work with folks of all different ethnicities and genders and sexual orientations and, you know, all of the things that make us different, because I've realized that as I start to learn from other people from different backgrounds, it actually makes me a more well-rounded individual. And, you know, from a diversity perspective, companies do perform better if their teams are diverse. And I don't want to just emphasize on that diversity piece, but the culture has to be inclusive, and that's a lot more than doing an unconscious bias training once a year. Number three is the team. When you're interviewing with these companies, make sure that you are meeting people that you would like to--that you would be working with. Maybe if you don't have the opportunity to connect with someone who works on that team while you are interviewing, see if you can at least have a conversation with them throughout that process, even if it's over the phone or for something casual. Let's say you interview, you get the offer, and you still don't know who you're working with. Ask them if you can actually speak with those individuals before you make your ultimate decision. You know, it is so important--[laughs]--it is so important to actually like the people that you work with. Do you like them? Do you vibe with them? Is the energy good? You know, these are things to pay attention to as you meet them. What is their working style, you know? Do you have a team that likes to meet every other day to talk about what they're working on? Or if you're like me, where you're a fairly independent worker, hey, maybe "I have my work here, you have your work there. We come together when we have the ultimate team or a larger-scale project that we're working on," but for the most part I'm good, you know? That was one thing that I really enjoyed about being in recruiting, I had my own territory that I managed. The other recruiters on my team, they had their territories that they managed, and we would come together to plan, you know, company-wide recruiting events, initiatives, things of that nature, and I really enjoyed the independency piece of it, but also the opportunities to collaborate as needed. Number four - the work itself. [laughs] Will you actually enjoy the work that you're doing? You know, before I was in recruiting--now y'all are gonna be like, "How many jobs did this girl have?" I had three, okay? I went from accounting to recruiting, and now I am a career coach. [laughs] So I started my career with KPMG in Audit. It was a wonderful opportunity, a wonderful company. I had several internships with them, but as I--and I guess I didn't really think through if I would actually like it until I started working post-graduate school and said, "Wait, is this what I--wait, this is what I signed up for?" You know? As an intern, I was just happy to be collecting a check and to be working with a large organization that had such a great brand recognition. So I realized that I did not enjoy being an auditor, you know? I kind of felt like, man, my clients didn't love seeing me. I wanted to feel like I'm actually making a difference or I'm making an impact where I'm helping, and, you know, folks when they see me, they'd be like, "Ugh, what do you want today?" [laughs] They were actually great. They were fine, but it was sometimes a little harder as an auditor to get what we needed. You just had to kind of, you know, win your client over a little bit, and then it was good, but I ultimately realized that not only that, I just did not enjoy the work, and that become something that was, you know, pretty important, but it's not all about me. I meet a lot of women every day that don't love the work that they do and they are scared to, you know, pursue something else because of the pay, because, you know, maybe this job that they're at right now is giving them some flexibility, or maybe they're just scared, you know? Maybe it's just fear, but if you don't enjoy the work, I promise you there is a job out there where you can enjoy it and you can get all of the other things that you want and more. Number five is growth and training opportunities. Are you interested in growing with the company? Now, success--we should always be reevaluating what success looks like for us from a professional landscape, but, you know, when it comes to growing, do you want to actually grow into a leadership role, a management role? You know, if not, then that's cool too, but depending on how you want your future to look, you need to make sure that the organization is willing and able and has the capacity and is fully vested in your growth and they are going to provide you with training opportunities and development opportunities that will allow you to grow into that professional being that you ultimately want to be. So I hope that these five key things help. Make a list. You know, make a list of all of these things and get as specific as possible. I have all of my coaching clients create a list of at least 30 things that they are looking for in their next role. These are some things to consider. Now, I didn't cover every single thing that's out there, but to me those are the five key things. You have to think about what's most important to you. So that's all I have today. Just to run through those tips again or those keys. Remember, it was five key things to remember as you are considering your next position. One is lifestyle. Two is culture or DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Number three is the team. Do you actually like them? Do you vibe with them? Number four is the work itself. Will you actually enjoy what you are doing? And the last is growth and training opportunities. So that's all I have today. Thank you all so much for listening to The Link Up with Latesha on Living Corporate. If you have any questions or comments or, you know, you have some thoughts, please reach out to me. You can find me on social media, on Instagram and Twitter, at Latesha--that is L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd, B-Y-R-D. I'll catch y'all next week. Peace.

On the thirty-third installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield talks to us about the three things he believes all professionals should be scheduling regularly. The best time to find a job is when you're not looking for one, so be sure to implement these strategies to set yourself up for when you do need that new job! Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y' all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week let’s talk about 3 things I think ALL professionals need to schedule regularly.Do you know when the best time to find a job is? …. Well let me help you out, the answer is when you’re not looking for one. Searching for a job can be stressful. Think about it. Trying to not only remember what you did the last 4 years of your career but also having to write it down in a compelling way. Attending a ton of events in a short amount of time to try to make new connections in hopes that the uncomfortable first interaction leads to a career. Connecting with people on the internet thinking that maybe, just maybe someone will reach out with an opportunity.All of that induces a ton of anxiety and honestly doesn’t position you for success in your job search. That’s why I think there are 3 things that ALL professionals, no matter if they love or hate their job, should schedule on their calendars to help them in landing their next role:The first thing is time to update your resume - As I said earlier, trying to update your resume after 4 years of not touching it is the worst. Especially if you find that application that’s due tomorrow or someone says, “Hey, shoot your resume over to me now and I’ll see what I can do.” If you put 30 mins on your calendar every month to update your resume while everything is pretty fresh in your brain, you’ll keep yourself out of those binds because your resume will ALWAYS be ready.The second thing that should be on your calendar is time for LinkedIn - Being active on LinkedIn can build up your network which, in turn, can help you in your job search. But being proactive about this allows you build genuine, authentic connections that makes those people more likely to help you in whatever way they can. There are a few things I suggest you get on your calendar when it comes to LinkedIn First, I suggest scheduling time to update your profile monthly around the same time you update your resume. Second, make some time to create posts and engage with other people a couple of times a week, at least.The third thing is time to network - since most jobs are filled through referrals, this is key. The best time to build and warm up your network is when you don’t need them. But remember, networking doesn’t always mean going to events, it also means warming up connections you haven’t talked to in a while. Since old connections run in different circles they tend to provide different information than what you or your inner circle have access to AND you two already have previously established rapport so they are more likely to help you. Oh, and yeah you should go to events too and be sure to always follow up! Having these three things on your calendar at regular intervals will help you remain accountable and also set you up for when you really need that new job!This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, twitter, and facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach speaks with Kori Hale, CEO of CultureBanx, about CultureBanx itself and her personal career journey. They also discuss the concept of producing content, particularly while other, and Kori offers some great advice for professionals who are afraid to make a jump or do something new in their career.Connect with CultureBanx through their website, Instagram, and Twitter - and check out their content on Spotify!Connect with Kori on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and we are here again. More fire for your head top, more content, more real discussions with black and brown people or people that affirm the identities and experiences of black and brown people to center--that's right--black and brown people. And today is no different, 'cause, you know, we're coming to y'all with really good conversations, often times with a special guest, and we have such a guest today - Kori Hale. Kori, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Kori: Hi, Zach. I'm great. How are you?Zach: I'm doing really, really well. I appreciate the fact that you were able to take the time to be on the show. For those of us who don't know you, could you talk a little bit about yourself?Kori: Yes, I can, but before I do, I noticed in the opening you said this show is also for people who affirm the identities of black and brown people, and I was wondering if that included Rachel Dolezal. [laughs]Zach: Oh, goodness. You know what? If Rachel wants to--here's the thing about Rachel. I--it's so confusing, 'cause she could have done so much more as an actual white woman and, you know, given and used her privilege as--you know, and given it away. Instead she chose to, I don't know, handicap herself, but then also take a bunch of, like, praise? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. What do you think? You tell me.Kori: Yeah, I don't know. It is a tough one. However, homegirl can definitely braid some hair based on that Netflix documentary that I saw, 'cause I'm like, "Yo." I mean, normally white people just have less-textured hair, so it's much harder to actually, you know, braid in extensions, and I ain't ever even seen anyone iron some hair like that before. [both laugh] She was teaching me some stuff! So I was like, "Oh, girl, I didn't even know you could do all that."Zach: That's so funny. But you know what? I think this is a really good segue into what you do and your platform, but I'd love to hear more about your journey and kind of--so let's just get it out there. You're the CEO and founder of CultureBanx, which is a media platform for black folks, for black and brown--I'm gonna say black folks, and I'll let you kind of get into it, but let's talk a little bit about your journey and kind of how you got there and then really more about what CultureBanx is.Kori: Yes. So my journey is--well, as I like to say, the path that we're all on in life is not easy, nor is it paved in gold, and that's a lot like my story. I started out as an investment banker, first internationally at a Swiss bank in London, and then I moved back to the States and I was with Goldman Sachs for several years and just really realized, right, that there wasn't anyone that looked like me delivering high-level business financial news in a way that really would resonate with my community, with my core values, and so I was like, you know, "If I can't figure this out, let me maybe try and go work at some of the big networks," specifically business news networks, right, and figure out how can I maybe inject some diversity, because I think that a lot of us, when you work in corporate America, the main thing that you want to do is feel like--and I really actually hate when people use the word "safe places" or "safe space." Like, there's no safe space when you get up and you go to work for somebody else every day, right? Because it's their company. So, like, that doesn't exist, even if they want to create some employee resource group or whatever. Like, the head of the employee resource group still reports to somebody that doesn't look like them, [?] like, up to the CEO of the company. And so I thought I was gonna be able to inject diversity at networks like Bloomberg and CNBC, and even when I was a news anchor down on the floor of the Stock Exchange and actually didn't even know until I was down there that I was the first African-American woman to ever anchor a daily news show from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange in its 200+-year history, and I thought, "Well, that's odd." Like, "What's going on here? Why has that never been a thing until I worked at this media startup?" But through that transition of investment banking to then getting into media, what I really realized was that there was no outlet, broadcast, print, or digital, that was gonna deliver the type of content that I was looking for. So if a former investment banker journalist can't create this sort of company for communities that need it the most, then no one else is gonna go out there and do it, and that really brings us more to the present day and CultureBanx, the media company, and what we do is create business news for hip hop culture, and essentially all of our articles have music attached to it that then spins out into different curated Spotify playlists. So it's pretty dope if I do say so myself, because I--Zach: Aye. [laughs]Kori: I mean, it is. I look at music as that sort of underlying theme throughout all communities. It's an easy way to engage, an easy way to see a reflection of yourself, and what if we took that same approach to information and content and not keep pushing just entertainment and sports and celebrity and that sort of stuff to minority communities? Because we think--and by we, the people that are actually even pushing the content towards these communities aren't even from those communities, but they're trying to say, "Oh, this is what they want. This is the only thing they care about," but that's not true. It's just that you're putting it in a, as I like to say, razzle-dazzle sort of way. If you did the same thing but you talked about stocks and mergers and acquisitions, what a difference you might see in those communities.Zach: No, you're absolutely. And I mean, I think the other piece is, like, also acknowledging the work that those communities are already doing, right? So there's more and more black tech spaces that are coming up organically, right? Like, you think about--there's multiple of these types of pods, like, within the coastal cities, the DMV, LA, Oakland, Houston, the Midwest and Chicago. Like, there's all types of just organic things happening. Healthy living co-ops. There's all types of activities that are happening in these--again, like, in these black and brown communities, but there are larger, I think, like--I don't know, just larger narratives and systems in place that minimize those stories. And also there's a lack of funding, right, and marketing awareness for those organizations that are already in place. What I think I hear you talking about is really exciting because you're pushing more content, and then I also believe CultureBanx provides opportunities, or at least opens up a lens to what is actually happening today in those spaces, right?Kori: Yes. We definitely provide people with what we call the culturally-attuned perspective in those spaces. I mean, it's easy to see a headline--to your point--about minority maybe co-working spaces or different companies or organizations, institutions, that are focusing in the STEM fields as it relates to minorities. What we really try to push over at CultureBanx are the everyday stories though. So not just [whatever?] falls in the minority bucket 'cause it mentioned something about the Latinx or Asian or black community, but this story is the headline on all of these platforms, and this is information you need to know, but they're not gonna tell you exactly why it's relevant to your community, why you should personally care about something like that. And Zach, can I go ahead and give your listeners a quick example here?Zach: Come on.Kori: So last year, Michael Kors--the company, the retail brand--bought Versace, a very famous Italian luxury retail brand, for $3 billion. You would think on the surface, "Okay, well, that's interesting I guess, if you're into fashion," or even if you're not into fashion, but no one is telling you why that deal is really a play on urban culture. And the reason that Michael Kors really wants a bigger stake in Versace is because of Versace's long-standing love affair with hip-hop, hip-hop and the community, and hip-hop of course being the #1 genre of music for the past decade.Zach: In the world.Kori: Right. Hip-hop leads these trends, and the majority of hip-hop artists are African-American. We've seen a huge rise, right, with Latinx performers in the hip-hop community as well, but still all in that, you know, minority category, and just that spending power alone of African-Americans is currently at $1.3 trillion, making the spending power of this community larger than the economy of Mexico.Zach: Come on, now. [Flex bomb sfx]Kori: Y'all gotta feel me when I say we have more spending power than the entire country of Mexico just as an African-American community, a subset of the bigger U.S. population, but it's more powerful than entire countries. And so to get in front of that audience, right, is something that most brands want, and no one is gonna talk about that the way we're gonna tell you "This is why this is important," right? This market move by Michael Kors to acquire Versace is much bigger than them trying to perhaps get into more of the luxury business and much bigger than Versace trying to figure out how it can get into more stores. It's like, "Hey, we know their main audience, the people that are spending money." I mean, think of all of the free advertisement that Versace gets in hip hop songs?Zach: Oh, no, 100%. 'Cause part of me--I was talking to my wife about this. I was like, "Dang, I wonder if any of these rappers--like, do they have deals that they don't talk about?" Right? Like, when Migos made that song "Versace," right, like, did they have some secret deal, like, a marketing agreement, and, like, did Drake get a piece of that? 'Cause, like, it's just wild that--like, we do that though. Like, we'll talk about Polo, Versace, Gucci. Like, we love high-end brands. We talk about Pateks. Like, we talk about--anything that's, like, European and very expensive, like, they end up in rap songs, and I just ask myself--and maybe I'm a little bit more conspiratorial than I should be. I'm always thinking about, like, there's just some grander scheme here--like, I just wonder, like, is there some, like, larger agreement that maybe even some of these record labels have with these European brands to then create this content? 'Cause you're absolutely right. Like, we promote it at crazy levels. Like, I wouldn't have wore Polos when I was in middle school like I did if it wasn't for Kanye, and I wouldn't have wore--like, there's just a bunch of clothes that I just wouldn't have purchased without--like, without rap influence, you know what I mean?Kori: No, I completely understand what you're saying. I think that that's what makes this so fascinating and so interesting, that other businesses, industries, sectors, they really value, right, the trendsetting and the taste-makers that come from minority communities moreso than we will value our own, you know, power, and that's the problem, because sometimes I don't think that we really immensely understand the power that we have. So when things are not going right, let's say on the negative side--racism, sexism, those sort of things--like, how valuable withholding your dollars from certain brands can be to move the needle.Zach: Yes, you're absolutely right. And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, these insights that you're having around media production--like, the business insights that you're having and that you're bringing to this space, I mean, I think it comes from your business journey, right? Like, you've had a few different jobs, and you don't really give the impression of someone who's afraid to change. So, like, can we talk a little bit about where you started, and then, you know, what advice you would give to professionals who are wherever they are for whatever reason and they're afraid to make a jump and to do something new? Kori: Yes. I actually really love kind of telling this particular part of my journey, but I'ma take it back a little bit before I actually started working and shout-out my undergrad university, Hampton University, out there in the Hampton Roads area right outside of Virginia Beach. And going to an HBCU is a very great experience, but for me personally, growing up in Houston, Texas, I grew up knowing and being around affluent African-Americans, so that wasn't, like, a stretch for me, to see black people that had real money, not the--you know, the kind of clout money as they say. That wasn't really a stretch for me, but going to Hampton University and really getting a full scope and breadth of black people from across the country, like, that was very eye-opening for me, and what it instilled was really the value of appreciating what we can do as a community and, you know, us being a part of that talented [?] and what that would mean for the future of our community. And after Hampton, when I moved to London and started investment banking at the Swiss bank UBS, I was like, "Huh. Well, this is also odd, because now I'm back in this super minority--" I call it a double-minority status, because I'm not just, like, a black person living abroad--I'm a black person and I'm also an American, so it was just a lot of things to have to work through. But coming back to the States from London and working at Goldman, I kind of got a better sense of the way that corporate America worked, and I wanted--at the time I thought the ultimate goal was to become a partner, right? That's what you kind of train for, that's what you kind of work up--"what you should be," as the company will tell you, should be aspiring towards. [cha-ching sfx] And I'm like, "Okay, so let me sort out this path." And I figured out what that path was about two years after I started at Goldman. I stayed another couple of years, but after those first two years when I figured it out, I also got into the mindset of "Okay, I pretty much know what it's gonna take and how long it's gonna take me to get there." Like, "That can't be the mountaintop," so to speak, because there's got to be more to life than this. And I really just took those next two years where I was at the firm to kind of navigate what I wanted to do. Like, if you would have told me at the time that I started at Goldman that I would one day be running my own media company, like, I would have laughed at you, because I had no aspirations to be in media. I didn't know anything about journalism. Matter of fact, the day I left Goldman Sachs, I did not know one person that worked in media. I'm talking about not even an assistant, even a doorman at a building, security officer at a news room, nothing. Like, I literally knew no one that actually worked in any news corporation, but I felt like God spoke to me when I was at Goldman and said that this is what I should be doing. I just kind of decided to stick with it, and some of the partners that were mentors and sponsors for me, I ran this idea by them, that I, you know, was gonna leave Goldman and go to journalism school and try and become a business news journalist--they were very supportive, and they told me basically, like, you're young--I was around 26 at the time--and if it doesn't work out, you can always come back here. Like, "You can always come back to GS if it doesn't work out," but a lot of them were basically like, "Don't be like us." Like, "Don't buy into," essentially drinking the company corporate Kool-Aid, so to speak, and stay here because you've figured out the path and it seems safe and secure, because you'll always look back and say, "But if I would have given this other thing a shot, even if I failed, at least I would have known I tried." And going back to a respectable organization like GS isn't a terrible fallback plan for anyone. Luckily I haven't had to tap into that fallback plan, but you never know what the future holds. [laughs] So we can always see, but that's kind of how that transition happened.Zach: You know, it's just incredible because--I'll speak for myself, right? Like, you know, I didn't think that I would get here, where I am, in my job, you know? I didn't think that I would be--I didn't think I'd be working here. Like, I remember when I was in high school I said, "I think I want to be a consultant one day," and my high school counselor said, "You're not gonna be a consultant," right? You know? And then after that, before I became a consultant I was trying to pursue a career in HR. I had folks who look like me saying, "You're not gonna be an HR manager," right? So, you know, for me, because of that and not having a lot of people that look like me in these spaces, getting to one of these jobs seemed to be the mountaintop, right? But the reality is that there's more to life than just working for somebody else. And, you know, no shame to anybody who wants--like, who wants to be a career... career person, but there's more than that. You know, how did you navigate some of the--like, the fear and anxiety that came with, like, making that jump? So you came--I'm not gonna get into your pockets, but I would presume, I could be wrong, that perhaps your career at Goldman Sachs gave you a little bit more financial flexibility to, like, make certain moves and take certain risks that other people couldn't take. Is that a wrong assumption, or is that--you know, did any of that come into play in terms of, like--do you feel like, because of your job, you were able to--you had more space to kind of take that leap?Kori: I think my job gave me--and, like, the money I made while I was there, it definitely gave me the flexibility to be able to go to Syracuse's Newhouse School of Communication and figure out, like, "Could I make this journalism career a thing?" I think it definitely gave me that because I had the confidence to know that if, for whatever reason, it didn't work out, I would be able to go back and have, you know, a very good-paying job, but also, like, enough money, for the most part, to help me at least get through, like, the schooling part.Zach: So then--so let's talk a little bit about the concept of producing, right? So you're a content creator. You're a producer. It's a term though that's thrown around quite a bit, right? Especially, like, in today's digital age. What does it really mean in your mind to be a producer in the media space today?Kori: I look at content producers in general as people that are creating new original, authentic shows, articles, media content in general. So not the companies that are aggregators of information. Like, there are a lot of companies out there that are basically just pulling stuff from other people's websites, but they're not actually holistically creating something that was not there before, and that's really a major differentiator in the space, because--to your point about a lot of different, like, black and brown minority-based concepts popping up, you've got to be able to stand out on your own and be creating in a space that no one else is already creating in. I think that we definitely need minority spaces, but we shouldn't divide and conquer, right? We're stronger together. We don't necessarily need 50 different versions of co-working spaces for people of color. I'm not saying that we only need one, but would it make more sense to pool our efforts together in order to create something bigger? Zach: No, you're absolutely right. It's interesting though because it's--like, so kind of going on the co-working space thing and, like, other ideas, one, because, like, our networks--I don't know, our networks are just different, and also, like, because sometimes we come into spaces late, or we--and when I say come into spaces, I mean we don't have the same amount of support to, like, be early adopters in the spaces that we may see our white counterparts do. So, like, we'll come into a space, and we'll come into the space at the same time, and so it looks oversaturated, right? But I actually--like, I don't know. So talk to me more about--so you zoomed in on co-working spaces twice now. Like, talk to me a little bit more about what you're seeing in that space and why--like, what's your point of view on it? 'Cause, like, I think they're really cool. I'm a consultant, so I have a co-working space all of the time because of, like, just the nature of my job. Like, I can just go to any home office, like, through the firm that I work at, but I think that they're a pretty cool idea, and they seem to be used, but, like, I'm not really as plugged in. So, like, I'd be open to you educating me on it.Kori: Yeah. So, I mean, I don't--I have a co-working space as well, but I don't really use it that much, and it's not a co-working space at a place for people of color, but specifically on that front, like, I do know a couple of founders that are trying to launch their own versions of, like, specifically of women of color, others specifically for founders of color in a particular sector, like, that sort of thing. I actually feel like that is a very fragmented marketplace, almost much in the way of The Wing, which is a very popular all-female co-working space that WeWork has actually invested in, and I definitely think there's a space where, you know, women want to be, but one of the main issues with the WeWork is that there are no men allowed, which, if you're a smaller business--which most people that use co-working spaces tend to be--you don't always want to have to go outside of your co-working space for a meeting. And I think that there are other ones that have popped up along the way. Like, there's one for women executives, right, where it's also fragmenting the market, but it's fragmenting the market in a way that makes people feel like they're being part of an elite club, if you know what I mean. Like, "Oh, you have to be at a certain level at whatever your organization is to be invited to be a member here." I think that sort of way of strategically planning out how you roll out different co-working spaces for people of color is a better strategic roadmap to success than just saying, "We're opening up a place for people of color."Zach: What is the--what would you recommend as the approach to, like, unify and desegment that space?Kori: Right. I think the best way to look at it is like, "This is the community that we're trying to get in front of," or that we're trying to help, and really pinpointing "What are the most important things to those people?" And I can actually liken that back to CultureBanx, like, and going into roadmapping out how do you deliver content to this so-called new woke generation in a way that they can actually identify with and see a reflection of themselves and their community with? And when you think of co-working spaces, like, what is it that's most important to the community of potential co-working clients and users that makes the most sense? And back to CultureBanx, for us it was everything that tends to be pushed that does really well in front of minority audiences has something to do around entertainment, music, celebrity. So it's how do we bring that to what we do so that it doesn't seem like it's such a far off leap for people to be interested?Zach: So then what does it look like--you know, let's talk about, like, the professional who--maybe they're not looking to start their own company, they're not looking to--they're just trying to survive at their job, right? Let's talk about, like, the concept of producing and, like, bringing these--and, like, the principles that you're talking about with CultureBanx, and how do you think those principles can be applied to a black and brown professional at work? Because ultimately there seems to be a certain level of purposefulness and intentionality. That's the better word. A certain level of intentionality and strategy that it comes to really producing effectively and really kind of managing brand. Do you think any of that could be effectively leveraged, utilized, for folks in their 9-to-5 jobs? Kori: Yes, but I think it always starts with figuring out--like, knowing your end goal and working backwards. So as I mentioned earlier, when I thought my end goal was to become a partner at Goldman, it was "Okay, well, I want to become a partner. I'm only a senior analyst now." Like, "Let's scale back from partner and work our way backwards and see what it takes to get there," to your point, like, your own self brand management at work every day. And funny enough, this is something that a lot of people don't know about me, I actually left Goldman about two months after I got promoted, which is--but I had already been--but this is when I talk about the planning. I had already been planning, like, my strategic, like, exit. As you all know, I'm sure, that are listening right now, you know, you apply to a school, you have to wait to get in, that sort of thing. You know, take the tests or whatever tests you need to be admitted to these universities. So, like, I had already been strategically planning that, but I had also still been working on that plan of "If I do stay and try to navigate my way to someday becoming partner--" I was still working that plan too and, you know, just came to that crossroads of "Huh, do I--" Even after I got promoted I almost decided that I was gonna stay and not even pursue this whole journalism path. I'm like, "Oh, this happened sooner than expected." So, you know, I was on the high-performing track as they call it at some companies, the fast track to moving up. Like, there was no real reason for me to want to leave other than I felt like my life's purpose and calling was greater than what I was currently doing. And when you are constantly in this strategic mode of planning out "What does it look like in my 9-to-5 every day to be able to push to the next level?" Everything about what you do has to be very heavily managed, as a person of color especially, and I know that in corporate America people try to heavily, like, push this whole concept of mentorship and sponsorship. I will tell you I'm not a huge fan of mentors, and every time I say that people will, like, give me their pushback, which is fine. You're entitled to your own opinion. But especially in corporate America, sponsorship is significantly more powerful than mentors, because mentors, they can also be sponsors, but you know how much more effective it is if you come to somebody with a game plan already and say, "Would you be willing to help me navigate executing this plan or this strategy?" As opposed to going to a mentor and being like, "You know, I'm really trying to figure out what role I want," or "I'm moving to the next department and thinking through--" Like, show up with some skin in the game already. Like, "I've already done X, Y, and Z, and it would be great if you could help facilitate." Now, obviously most people don't want to--I shouldn't say they don't want to. Most people want to feel like they're imparting their wisdom and knowledge on you, but if you're in a position where you can make that person look good by helping them or by them getting you to the next level, that only sets you up for more success.Zach: No, you're absolutely right. I also do think that there's a certain level--I don't know. I'm not trying to, like, pathologize nobody, and I'm not a psychologist, [but] I do believe that there is a meta-narrative of, like, non-minorities paternalistically trying to tell black and brown folks what to do, and they kind of revel in, you know, putting people in their place or just raising them in some way. [laughs] So I 100% agree with you. I think a lot of that stuff is often, like, self-aggrandizing and ego-centric. To your point around--like, I think it's more about the relationships you can build and what value you can directly say that you helped somebody else with to help them be successful. That's the way that I've seen people really climb up, right? It's not necessarily being like, "Oh, this person pulls me aside and gives me things to work on, and that's how I got promoted so fast." That's not really the case, 'cause you and I both have seen folks, you know, in an industry who have no business being in the position that they're in, and yet, you know, they're there, you know?Kori: Yeah. I mean, I think we all see that in this country, starting at the very top at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.Zach: Oh, wait a minute. Hold on now. [and i oop sfx]Kori: Not getting deeply into politics, but just saying, like it or hate it, if you agree with his politics or not--'cause people could say the same thing about 44, President Obama. Like him or hate him, you could argue one way or another and say maybe he didn't deserve--purely based on a resume, not basing on anything else. Purely basing it on so-called skills and qualifications for the role, you could make a case that he wasn't necessarily qualified, and it could be justified. You could make the same case for the current president, that he is not qualified for some of the same on the opposite end of the spectrum. I look at Barack and I say--excuse me, let me put some respect on that man's name. I look at President Obama--Zach: Come on, now.Kori: [laughs] And say that--it would be easier for people to say, you know, he doesn't actually have any business experience. He hasn't been serving in public office for any lengthy amount of time. Like, things that you would call into question for someone who would be taking the office of president. And on the other end of the spectrum you have president Trump, and you can say, "Yeah, he's run some corporations." They, on the outside, seem successful, but as we all know, when you dig in there are lots of question marks and, you know, missing documents, but you would say, "But he's never served in public office. What does he know about actually serving people essentially that aren't, you know, paying customers in that way?" Outside of the taxes that we pay. And you would question whether or not that someone is fit for that position. So yes, to your point, we all find that. "Why is this person in this position?" Well, most of the time it comes down to a likability factor. It doesn't come down to skill sets. And that's really my point, is that it's proven at the highest level. Like, something that my mom would always say to my older brother Kenan and I--primarily it started when we were in college--she would tell us, "You can either network or not work." Like, you going into work every day and doing your job that you're hired for, that's only 50% of your job. The other 50% needs to be you networking with people, because you don't know where your next opportunity is gonna come from, and your next opportunity, the likelihood that it comes from what you're doing sitting at your desk every day is very slim. It mostly comes from that person that you got coffee with once every two or three months.Zach: And I think this is the--so I don't know. I feel like you and I should actually have, like, another conversation. This isn't, like--you know, we don't typically do, like, in-depth conversations about different points of view on, like, whiteness or just, like, privilege, but, like, I'm curious to get your point of view on, like, even that. Like, that right there, the idea that you're building relationships off of the people that you're getting coffee with. Like, there are barriers to making sure that you even get that coffee, you know what I mean? Like, there are certain people that get invited to get coffee and then some people who don't, right? And then there's--and then as you even get to, like, the executive levels, you know, so many sales relationships are built on historical relationship equity that black and brown people just don't have 'cause they haven't been in these spaces. And so, like, I'm curious as to, like, your point of view on what does it look like--when you talk about relationships, when you talk about, like, navigating--and we kind of strayed away from the concept of producing, but I still think we're there. Like, what does it look like to use those tools to then, like, create those connections as much as you can?Kori: Yeah, getting invited to coffee versus, you know, kind of pushing your way in, I think that as a minority myself and other minorities especially working in corporate America need to take that ownership of organizing, of basically being like, "I'm gonna set up this sort of coffee situation." And I can give you all an example of my own personal story. So I worked at a media startup called Cheddar before I launched CultureBanx, and I actually knew the founder of Cheddar for a year or so before he ever even launched that company because he used to be the president of BuzzFeed, and then after that he was the CEO of The Daily Mail, and I knew him because I would book him as a guest to come on this show I used to produce for called Squawk Alley on CNBC. [owww sfx] And I used to just, you know, book him, and you kind of just build relationships, right, from being a producer, with different people, and that is essentially how I got that next role. So it had nothing to do with the fact of what I got up and went into work to do every day. Zach: Right. And again, what I continue to hear is just the willingness to put yourself out there. It's just so interesting, because, like, with non-whiteness I believe comes a certain level of unfamiliarity, right? So, like, you have the--if you don't look like somebody, even if--so let's just say there's two white people, right? They may have completely different backgrounds. Like, they may have completely different religious, socio-economic, even, like, cultural backgrounds, but that, like--the benefit of looking like somebody, there's certain grace that's given and space that's made to, like, more easily build relationships, where as if you're a person of color, like, what I'm hearing a lot--even though you're not saying it explicitly, Kori--is, like, you had to put yourself out there. You had to be enterprising. You had to connect the dots. You had to be much more strategic and intentional with your time and with, like, even how you present yourself and the things that you're doing and what you offer, right? Like, you had to really come--you had to really be thinking of a position of value creation, and that's great for you. Like, you're clearly a beast, right? Like, you've been--you've made moves moves, but what does it look like for--like, teaching that to somebody who isn't wired that way. Right? That could be challenging.Kori: It definitely is, and I am in no way a master of teaching it to other people. I know I have personal friends that say, "Kori, you're really great at public speaking," or "You're really great at going in and selling yourself or whatever it is that you're doing to other people." This is what I will say - it's a learned skill. Like, I didn't come out of the womb, like, doing this. There's definitely certain personality traits that are more akin to being able to just pick up these sort of things and these sort of characteristics, but it's a learned skill day in and day out, and it can start very basic. Going back to the coffee thing. Like, getting comfortable--which I know this is overused--with the uncomfortable, with making yourself uncomfortable. And if you're not the type who's gonna send a random email--which I love when people say to me, "Well, I mean, what am I gonna say?" I'm like--to your point about it kind of being a bit narcissistic with mentorship and that, people do love to talk about themselves. So just put it out there that, "Hey, you know, I'd like to talk to you. I'd like to learn more about what you do." And make it more about them. Normally, like, if you're in a relationship and you break up with somebody, you give them the "It's not you, it's me" speech. In business, give them the "It's not about me, it's all about you" speech. Like, when you send the email, like, "Hey, this whole thing is about you," right, "'cause you're so great, you're so fantastic. I just want to know about what you're doing." As a way to soften the introduction or the awkwardness that you think lies there, because you might not really know someone, even though that's something that you eventually might want to do or an area that you might want to move into. You have to do more, because you didn't go to boarding school with So-and-so, you know what I mean? You probably didn't go to all of the right Ivys, and even black people that have gone to Ivys, like--Zach: Listen, I've heard. Yeah, I've heard the experiences are different.Kori: Yeah. Like, if you didn't grow up in that world, like, you're still not necessarily accepted. So I think it's just you have to put yourself out there because they're not gonna know to contact you. Like, your parents, you know what I'm saying, y'all don't go sell off, you know, Martha's vineyard [?]. You didn't grow up going to summer camp for two months after you left boarding school, so basically you only saw your parents on holidays, and you're not even in college. You're only in the seventh grade. Zach: Right. You didn't go to Vermont to make artisanal pickles, you know what I'm saying?Kori: No, you didn't do any of that. So they already have 10--and that's just, like, at your level. Now you've got to think about how connected these parents are. Like, you're fighting a major uphill battle, and you can't go in every day and say, "I'm heads down. I'm gonna do a great job," which is something that they try to preach to you, right? Like, "Just go in. Work hard. Excel at your role." Like, "That's how you're gonna see opportunities."Zach: That's not true. Like--[laughs]Kori: You know why you're not gonna see any opportunities? Because your head is down at your desk or on the computer screen.Zach: And meanwhile we're upset. We're over here like [what more do you want from me? sfx] You know? It's just like--we're doing everything we can. So I 100% hear you and I agree with you, right? And not that I need to agree with you - this is a space of open ideas, you know? So diversity of thought is not real, but we do appreciate diversity of thought as it pertains or intersects with lived experiences of black and brown folks. So this has been super cool. Look, we've talked about CultureBanx, we've talked around CultureBanx. One thing we haven't done is talk about where people can learn more about CultureBanx, so please drop the info in here. We'll make sure to put it in the podcast notes and everything, but please let us know.Kori: Yes. Check us out at CultureBanx.com. You can find all of the content on our website. Sign up for our newsletter, daily newsletter, bringing you the latest, greatest, most important business news for the culture, as we say, every single day. You can also listen to the CultureBanx daily news briefing on any smart speaker device and also on Spotify. Everything is @CultureBanx on social media. Luckily we got in. There's no other company called CultureBanx, so it's the same--Zach: Aye. People underestimate how powerful that is. If you have the only name and you've got the domains--'cause let me tell you something. I've got--no, keep going. I'm messing your plug up. Keep going.Kori: [laughs] No, you're not, but it is important. Like, everything is literally just @CultureBanx. With an X, people. Don't forget.Zach: Please say the X, you know what I'm saying? Hold on. [Flex bomb sfx, both laugh] Oh, my goodness. Well, look, this has been super dope, and, you know, we just really appreciate you. Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Kori: Parting words? I think the main parting words I would have is something that we say on our show, which is just keep building for the culture. Zach: Come on, now.Kori: We gotta do it for each other.Zach: [straight up sfx] You're absolutely right. Now, look, this has been a dope conversation. Thank you all for listening to the Living Corporate podcast. Now, look, y'all know--I wasn't trying to mess up Kori's plug, but y'all know we got all the Living Corporates, okay? We got livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net, livingcorporate.us. We don't have livingcorporate.com. We have living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com, but we don't have livingcorporate.com. Australia has livingcorporate.com. Believe it or not, Kori, Australia, and they're selling corporate stuff. But see, the SEO looking kind of brolic out here, 'cause now when you type in Living Corporate--they used to be at the top. Now they're like, you know, in 8th or 9th. You know what I'm saying? Like, we applying pressure, you feel me? One day the brand will be brolic enough where we're gonna go to Australia and we will politely, respectfully, yank that domain right on back, and we're gonna have all the livingcorporates, and we're gonna just sit on a mountain of domains, you know what I'm saying?Kori: Which is not a bad idea. I'm actually helping out this other startup that's trying to modernize central banks, and the name of the company--which I won't throw out there right now--is so generic, and the person, the founder, has been using, like, different versions of the name of the company to try and set up, you know, different social accounts, and they have--even the website's name is not what she calls the actual name of the company, and I'm like, "This is too confusing. Like, people don't know where to go."Zach: 100%. People be having, like, the dopest ideas and be like, "Oh, we're gonna launch Bread.com." Like, yo, fam, you gotta figure out something else. Like--Kori: Right. You had to launch Bread.com when the internet first started. Like, the late '80s, mid-to-late '80s. Like, that's when you needed to launch that, but at this point no.Zach: Straight up. Man, this is funny. This is, like, the first, like, interrupted outro we've done, but it's really good. I like it, and we might have to start doing this moving forward. All right, y'all. Look, you can check us out. We're everywhere. In fact, just Google Living Corporate at this point. That's right. Stunt. That's right. Lowkey flex, but it's an honest flex. So Google Living Corporate. We out here. If you have questions you want to email us, check us out at LivingCorporatePodcast@gmail.com. Hit us up on the DMs. Twitter is @LivingCorp_Pod, Instagram is @LivingCorporate, and until next time, this has been Zach, and you have been talking to Kori Hale, CEO and founder of CultureBanx. Peace.

On the eighth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, helpfully informs us of one technique to use in our interviews to ensure that we have a great one - turning them into business meetings.Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you are in the right place. I'm here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking about one technique to use in your interview to have a bomb in-ter-view. The number one challenge I see with people doing well in the interview is not being confident. Lack of confidence will have you in an interview sweating, nervous, looking unprepared, just looking like you're not ready and you're not a good fit for the job. If you are not confident in yourself and in your abilities, why would you think the interviewer would be confident? You can have a bomb resume - I'm talking about with MBA here, Master's degree here, you know, years of experience, all of these skills and qualifications, you've led teams, but if you go into this interview and you are acting scared [laughs] or you're shy or you're timid, that interview is not going to go over well. I have so many clients and people that reach out to me every day. If you've been listening to this podcast, then you know I'm a career coach. I have so many folks that reach out to me because they're like, "I don't know why I'm not getting the job. I'm getting the interview. My resume is great," but then we actually do interview coaching and they're nervous, and I'm like, "Wait, what happened to this person with all of this great experience on paper?" And when we talk to you in person it's completely, completely different. You cannot walk into these interviews acting shy or scared or timid. You have to be confident, you have to be bold, and you have to walk in there like you know what the hell you're doing. So how can you do this? And this kind of brings me to the tip I wanted to share today. Start turning the interview into a normal business meeting. That starts with being solutions-focused and also showcasing or demonstrating that you are a problem solver. I had one of my client students, she was interviewing for an internal role - now, it will be a little easier to do something like this if you are interviewing for an internal role, but you can still do it if you're new to that company. So she works in learning and development for--excuse me, she is an instructional designer for a university, and she was interviewing for a promotion, and she went into the interview, she turned it into a normal business meeting, and by the end of it she asked, "So what are our next steps in the interview process?" And the interviewer looked at her and said, "Oh, my gosh. I forgot this was an interview." Y'all, this is a really positive and great thing, so I wanted to provide just some quick tips on how you can start to do this, and I want you all to think about how you actually plan and prepare and facilitate meetings in your current job. #1, you go into this meeting with an agenda. What is your agenda? What are the topics of discussion, right? What are those things that you need to know? Things about the company, things about the position, things about the person that you are talking to. I'd say the most important thing with an agenda is having an actual purpose, right? So what is the purpose of you going into this interview? And don't think, "Okay, it's to get the job." No, no, no. The purpose of you going into the interview is to present yourself as the best possible candidate for this role, and you want to think through how to do that. Of course you will need to review the job description in detail. What I recommend is going through the job description line by line by line, and for each responsibility you need to have some clear examples in your current or previous experience in how you demonstrated and how you demonstrated those responsibilities. What else do you do? You need to understand the challenges. Again, you need to make sure you are solutions-focused. Make sure you're solutions-focused in this interview, and that will come with understanding that team's challenges, understanding that company's challenges. You can turn it into a meeting by making it a conversation and asking questions throughout the interview and not asking questions like, "Well, tell me about the day-to-day here," or, you know, "What is the culture like?" Ask some hard-hitting questions, such as "Tell me about the biggest challenges your team is facing right now as it relates to X, Y, and Z. Tell me about some of the challenges that you all are having as you implement these new technologies, as you all are going through this merger and acquisition, as you all are working with these clients in this particular industry?" Ask very specific questions. So understand those challenges. Ask what they have tried in the past. So they will tell you what their challenges are. [laughs] I've never--in my days as a recruiter, if someone were to ask me, I never had an issue with speaking to that 'cause, like, you know, when we have these challenges at work and you give us a chance to talk about it and complain a little bit, you know? Now, if you are interviewing with someone and they're like, "Oh, everything's perfect. We don't have any challenges here." Run. Just run. [laughs] Just run. So understand the challenges. Ask what they have tried in the past. Provide recommendations. Now, this is where you're going to come in as the best candidate for the job, because you are going to be able to ask questions such as "Have you all tried X, Y, and Z?" Right? But you need to actually go into this meeting already kind of knowing what those challenges are. If this is your second interview, your third interview, your fourth interview, best believe you have got to carry forward those conversations that you had in that first, second, or third round interview, because by the time you get to the last round or those couple last rounds, you gotta go in there like you are already on the team. Like, "Put me in the game, Coach. Seriously." So providing these recommendations, this is where your research comes in. You should be researching information about the company online, asking questions, networking--talking to people that work at that company internally, and it would be great if you knew someone on that team specifically. If you don't know anyone at the company, you should still try to have these conversations with folks that are in that industry that are in that particular role, even at another company. So this is where networking will come in handy. You have to make sure that you are getting to know professionals that are in your industry, particularly professionals with the job title of the positions that you are going after, and it also would be great to know some leaders and executives in that industry as well. They typically have been around a lot longer. They can tell you some of the trends, things to be mindful of as it relates to the challenges, as it relates to solutions and recommendations on how to move, you know, the team forward that you can use in that interview. So come into the interview with a 30-, 60-day, 90-day plan and get their thoughts on it. You have to completely own it. And, with that being said, I'll give you all an example. So I am a former recruiter. I spent some years managing recruiting for a public accounting firm headquartered in Charlotte, and I managed recruiting for two offices in Charlotte - an office in New York, an office in Jacksonville, Florida and Tampa, Florida, and I had about seven universities that I managed recruiting for. Now, I'll tell you all my full story one day of how I got this position. [laughs] I'm gonna save that for another episode because it was by--mm--luck. I don't even want to say luck. It was because I had proven myself, but I had one particular person that was rooting for me, and that was literally all I needed. But I actually came from the public accounting industry. I was an audit for a Big Four firm. So I didn't know that much about recruiting, I'll be honest with y'all. [laughs] I can say that now since I did get the job and I'm not, you know, doing that anymore, but I went into that interview with a whole recruiting strategy, with a whole recruiting plan. I asked very specific questions around "Tell me about your metrics. How do you all measure the success of your recruiting efforts here? How are those metrics being tracked? Who's tracking those? How is leadership staying engaged with what's going on as it relates to recruiting? Who is the person responsible for updating leadership? What are some of the loopholes in communications? What are some of the communication challenges with the candidates that you all are recruiting. What are the challenges as it relates to the universities that you are recruiting at?" So by the time I got this information, I would go into the next interview and I would bring up those very same things, but I would bring it up with solutions and ideas and, you know, recruiting ideas and different ways to keep leadership engaged, different ways to keep the universities engaged that will keep the firm at top of mind. So by the time I left those interviews, I literally got a call probably about--I was still in the car. I was still in the car leaving that interview, probably going back to my other job, when I had got the call that said, "Yes, you got the offer." That's because I went in there and I owned it and I was confident and I used my network. I talked to a lot of other recruiters, so I knew what it would take to actually be a very strong recruiter and how to add value. So if you're going into these interviews a little shy and timid, "Well, I don't know, I just hope I prove myself, and I hope I do a good job, and I don't want to say anything too crazy," you know, that, to me, is going to be a lack of confidence. Now, I get it, we want to be humble. We want to show humility, but when you go into that interview, like I said before, you gotta act like you're already on the team. So what else do you do after the business meeting? You follow up. So follow up as you would a business meeting, you know? "Points that we talked about. Here are some of the challenges we talked about. Here are some of the solutions we talked about, and here are the next steps," right? And then sometimes we will ask, "Well, can you tell me what the next steps are?" Look, you could say, "Hey, based on what we've talked about today, I think these should be our next steps. If I were to step into this role, these are some of the things that I would like to do." Now, this also needs to come with an agreement, so as you're giving your recommendations, solutions, ideas, et cetera, you want to make sure that other person--you know, you're getting that buy-in, so you kind of have to manage or, you know, respond to them based on how they're responding to you, right? So if you make a recommendation and they say, "Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah, we should--I like that," right? That needs to be the main point in your follow-up. So I hope this was helpful. You know, try to restructure these interviews as business meetings. Like I said, be confident. Be bold. Walk in there like you know what you're doing. Have an agenda. Understand their challenges. Understand what they've tried in the past. Provide recommendations. Create a 30-, 60-, 90-day plan and get their thoughts on it. Completely own that interview, and then follow-up. So I hope this all was helpful today. Again, thank you for listening. My name is Latesha Byrd with Living Corporate, and you can find me on social media, Instagram and Twitter, at Latesha, L-A-T-E-S-H-A, underscore Byrd, B-Y-R-D. That's all we have, and I will talk to you all next week.

On the thirty-second entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield helps us to determine the length of our resumes. With the average job posting getting 200+ applicants and recruiters scanning resumes for 6 seconds on average, getting to the point is definitely necessary, but he thinks that there is another factor we need to take into consideration - relevancy.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y'all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week let’s talk about the length of your resume.Have you ever been told that your resume has to be 1-page? I get so many questions during my consultations on how long can their resume be. I think getting your resume to one page is definitely a good goal but I also understand that sometimes that’s just not possible.I definitely understand the logic behind a 1 page resume. With the average job posting getting 200+ applicants and recruiters scanning resumes for 6 seconds on average, getting to the point is definitely necessary, but I think there is another factor we need to take into consideration and that’s relevancy.I always tell my clients that there are a two things you want to consider before adding a second page. First, when it comes to things older roles, awards, certifications, and more try to be honest with yourself, are these things adding skills or experience that aren’t already represented by more recent roles OR are you holding on to it due to an emotional attachment. If it’s adding value, then keep it. But if you want it there because you think it brings you some sort of clout then I would reconsider keeping it on your resume because it may land you in the no pile. The second thing you should ask yourself is can you fill an entire page. I’m by no means a 1-page advocate but I do believe that if you are going to use a second page it needs to be filled with relevant content. If you have anything less than three quarters of a page, I would suggest you try to figure out a way to condense. While I can definitely see the benefit of a second page, I don’t recommend adding pages beyond that. Remember, this advice is for resumes. If you have a CV, that’s a little bit of a different story.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, twitter, and facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach speaks with the founders of Dipper, Jacinta Mathis and Netta Jenkins, about the value of your personal voice. They also share their journeys that led them to create Dipper and talk about their plans for the platform in 2020.Connect with Jacinta and Netta on LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and you know how we do, right? We come on, I say something like "What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate," and then I maybe remind y'all that we're a platform that amplifies the voices of black and brown people at work, right? You should get the drift now. We're at, like, episode a hundred and something. Now, as you also should know by now, I'm bringing to y'all some more fire for ya head top, some dope guests. Now, this is really only the second time in the history of Living Corporate that we've interviewed two people at the same time, so, you know what I'm saying, shout-out to us for that, and I'm just really excited 'cause we're getting--I don't want to say two for the price of one 'cause that's kind of cheesy, right? But I'm saying we have two incredible guests, Netta Jenkins and Jacinta Mathis. Jacinta: Hey.Netta: Woo-hoo!Zach: What's up, y'all? Now, look, we're just gonna get straight into it. I'm not even gonna go through the whole intros 'cause y'alls bios, if I was to try to do it, you know what I'm saying, I'ma take up all the time. [Jacinta and Netta laugh] So for those of us who don't know y'all, please share a little bit about yourselves.Netta: Yeah. Jacinta, would you like me to start off? Or--Jacinta: Go for it, girl. Go for it.Netta: Okay. Well, I guess I'll start off with something fun. So I'm an Afrobeats living room dancer. Love Afrobeats.Zach: Oh, turn up. Come on, Afrobeats.Netta: [laughs] But aside from that, I'm the author of Self-Advocacy & Confidence for a Fearless Career, a Liberian-American woman. I'm a wife, a mom to a four-month-old baby boy and a six-year-old, and I'm also co-founder of Dipper. You know, by night, and vice president of global inclusion for Mosaic Group and Ask Applications by day in a full-time capacity. And I'd say, you know, in my full-time role I focus heavily on breaking systemic gaps and publicly challenging the notion of simply adding diversity doesn't equate to an inclusive and equitable work environment. And I'm just really excited about our Dipper platform that, you know, helps guide professionals to a better workplace, whether good, bad, or indifferent, and we're really, you know, giving people of color a voice, and we're holding companies accountable and helping them to be improved at the same time.Zach: Well, come on now, Mrs. Jenkins. I appreciate you.Netta: Hey, hey, hey. [laughs]Zach: Come on, now. Wait a minute, now. Let me give us this Flex bomb. [Flex bomb sfx] You know what I'm saying? That was incredible.Jacinta: That was well-deserved. Well-deserved.Zach: Well-earned, absolutely. Okay, now go on, Jacinta. You got it.Jacinta: Yeah, so I am Jacinta Mathis. I am a Floridian who's stuck in New York. I've been here for about 11 years, and I don't think I'm leaving any time soon. I'm a data-driven performance marketer. I also focus on product growth and really feel like that's my specialty. And, you know, I'm working on building amazing products and then telling people about them. That's a lot of what I do. I'm also an evolving executive at an amazing tech company and co-founder of Dipper with Netta that we feel is revolutionary in providing this digital safe space for people of color that we have, you know, formed ourselves, with our own network. We're just making it something that can exist at scale and reach millions of people. And also I am, you know, a life partner and a mother to my amazing little family.Zach: Wait a minute, now. [Cardi B "ow" sfx] You know what I'm saying? [all laugh] So let's do this, let's do this. You talked a bit about who you are, but what's been y'all's journey, right, in becoming the entrepreneurs, public speakers, educators, corporate leaders, you know, and advocates that y'all are today? Like, how did y'all get to this place where y'all came together to really create Dipper? 'Cause I want to talk about Dipper as we talk about really, like, the value of your personal voice, but, like, how did we get here?Jacinta: Yeah. I think this is how Netta and I connected, because we were both raised--like, somebody nurtured us, watered us, so that we could become the sisters we are today, and really I think our legacy and what has happened before we even existed really helped mold the journey that we live today. And so, you know, I moved to New York to be a writer, and I ended up working at interning--when you could intern for free and it was legal--at PR agencies. I also worked in a restaurant, and I also had a gig at Target, and through working in a restaurant I met someone who was a media seller and kind of told me how ad agencies in the city work and really helped mentor me into a role at an ad agency, and that was kind of how my media buying, kind of advertising and marketing career really kicked off. And then when everything became digital I kind of literally fell into a tech company that ended up not being successful, but then I ended up at a really successful one where I met Netta and really helped build my career. And I think from there I realized, you know, tech would be a big part of everything that I did, and really this kind of experience and providing a safe place was something that I looked for everywhere I worked, and so when--just talking to Netta, it was like, "We have to make this a thing." Like, "It's something we have to do together."Netta: Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, when I start thinking of the journey, it dates back to when I was much younger, and so, you know, my African parents, they really stressed the importance of education and confidence at a very young age. So while kids were on their summer vacation or playing outside, I was the one reading books and creating goals. And I read a lot. I asked a lot of questions. Sometimes teachers were a little overwhelmed. Like, "Damn, she's asking too many questions." And then also being able to hear my parents tell me, "Listen, you have the ability to create change," really gave me the confidence to do anything that I had set my mind to. And so it started off by me becoming president of the freshmen class, where I was one of only three black people in the school at that time, to heading off to college, graduating in three years instead of four. Just, like, really being ambitious in all of my goals and then starting a casting company in college, and really that was to create a safe space for women to model and act in the entertainment industry. Because obviously it's very--it's, like, predominantly male-driven when it comes to, you know, the clients. And then business led me to Boston, where I completed my MBA, and off I was after that to New York, because predominantly a large amount of my clients were located in New York. But unfortunately there came a point where, you know, my business that I had grown in college and had expanded was no longer sustainable, and so I started looking at technology recruiting contract opportunities because I just couldn't see myself in a full-time opportunity immediately after owning my own business. I'm like, "How am I gonna be able to report to somebody?" So that whole concept in my head, I just couldn't wrap my head around that, but I've always been passionate about technology like Jacinta, and data, and specifically providing opportunities for people. Love seeing people win, and that led me into my contract recruiter role with the current company that I'm with today. That turned into a full-time opportunity, and I was able to jump from level to level in a matter of four years, and now at a VP level--[cha-ching sfx]--uh-oh. Cha-ching. [both laugh] But, you know, I think what it is is there's a lot of people that ask me, like, "Netta, how were you able to get to the level that you're at so quickly?" And it's really about building meaningful relationships. I think executives were able to trust me. Executives saw that the employees trusted me. They liked the boldness, sort of the non-sugarcoating attitude in "We're not gonna have quotas here." You know, "We really have to dig deep and deal with some of these systemic gaps." And then just simply the ability to empower employees to create change, and I always say that the key to success has been persistence, working smart, and really never quitting, and I'm really, really excited that I'm working alongside with Jacinta. We worked together at the same organization for many years, and she's phenomenal. So to be able to have, you know, a teammate that you can learn from every single day is truly inspiring, and so I'm happy that we're in this place where we're at now.Zach: Well, come on, then. You know, I just--this is dope, and you've already kind of touched on it a little bit, but you said earlier about, like, using technology to help people. I'm really curious about, you know, your passion around that, because there's been multiple studies shown that even though the world is becoming more and more technically advanced and we're seeing--like, we're seeing opportunities open up within these tech spaces, [but] we're not necessarily seeing opportunities for black and brown people growing at an equal rate, right? Like, we're still seeing a bit of like, "Hm." I don't want to say segregation. We're not seeing, like, any type of uptick when it comes to opportunities and employment and progression and succession, and so I think that's really awesome that we have people in these spaces who are advocating for those voices and those people. So check this out. Today we're talking about--I said all of that as a digression in this mug. Okay, so now, today we're talking about the value of your personal voice. So, like, when did each of you realize that your voices mattered, especially within the workplace? Like, was there ever a moment where you were like, "Man, wait a minute. I can actually speak up and it mean something."Jacinta: Netta, do you want to go first? Or do you want me to? [both laugh]Netta: No, you go for it.Jacinta: I think--I feel like it's fortunate and unfortunate it took other people recognizing it before I really recognized it. I think Netta kind of touched on this a little bit too. Like, people will talk about you when you're not in the room, right? And hopefully those people are sponsors and will advocate for you, and I think it really became a point where it was like, "Oh, Jacinta should be here." Like, literally getting grabbed and brought into a meeting, you know? Or someone saying, "Oh, we think we should run with this product change. What does Jacinta think?" Or, you know, really wanting to understand your input and value, and then when you present something seeing people jump into action or, you know, really seeing change happen. I think that's when I realized--I was like, "Oh, wait. People hear me. Like, they're really listening to me, and they're really taking what comes out of my mouth as word and that it's something that we should do," and I think sometimes, especially as a black woman in a corporate space, you may tell yourself to, like, mute your voice a little bit, but I was finding that what is kind of the stereotype was what people wanted me to embrace in my own way, especially--'cause sometimes you're in a room and nobody's saying "This is wrong." So they're like, "Oh, we know Jacinta will call it a spade," you know? [both laugh] So it's really having people around me that helped empower me to realize, like, my voice mattered and that people were hearing me, and then I just got more--you get more comfortable in that, and then having your network--like, I had Netta, and sometimes we would talk to each other, and I would bounce an idea off of her or show her a presentation before it went before the executive team or the board, just because I was like, "Well, what do you think about this?" And that helped me strengthen my voice too in the workplace.Netta: Yeah, absolutely. I think Jacinta's spot on with that. It's really about, you know, being able to lean on those people within the organization that you trust that empower you to have that voice, you know, to be bold, to speak up for yourself, to advocate for yourself and advocate for others. And so, you know, Jacinta was definitely that sounding block for me, and she still is even as business partners. We're always bouncing ideas off of each other, work-related situations like, "Hey, how should we get through this? How should we handle this?" And it's easier that way, right? It's harder when you're alone, and that's how come I think Jacinta and I both use the line "It really takes a village to create change and to get things moving." And Jacinta is my village, [laughs] so I'm thankful for that. I also feel early on as well I started noticing that I had a little voice and my voice mattered somewhat. Like I mentioned before, I was one of three in high school, and in middle school I was, like, one of two black people, and I remember just, you know, a whole bunch of racial slurs said. We were the only black family in that neighborhood at the time. It was a pretty, like, affluent neighborhood, and I remember going home to my mom and crying about some of the things that were said to me, and the one pivotal thing that my mom said to me is, "I didn't bring you on this earth to cry. I brought you here to create change." And I kid you not, that has been the most powerful line for me throughout my life, 'cause I always think about that. I'm like, "Wait, hold on. My mom brought me on this earth to create change." You know? And so when I got into high school, that's the reason why I ran for president of the freshmen class, because I wanted to create change. I knew of, you know, the inequities and the challenges that were going on. I was tired of them just putting up a picture of Martin Luther King and thinking like, "All right, we're done with Black History Month!" And then that's it, you know? I was really ready to challenge that, and I did, and I think that really prepared me for the work that I do now.Zach: So then let's talk a little bit about the work, right, that y'all are doing now, and about Dipper, right? And, like, by the way, the website is super fire. I very much so enjoyed the layout. I liked it a lot. But, like, how did this passion that y'all have and this realization, this self-realization of your voice and it mattering, play into the creation of Dipper?Jacinta: Yeah. It's so weird. I feel like every answer we're gonna be talking about our parents, right? [both laugh]Zach: That's fine.Jacinta: Yeah. So my dad was a chief diversity and inclusion officer for--I would say in the early '90s, before, like, diversity and inclusion was a thing--Zach: Your dad?Jacinta: Yeah, my father.Zach: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. So you said your father was a chief inclusion and diversity officer in the '90s? [record scratch sfx, all laugh]Jacinta: You're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." Yeah. And so, like, before it was really a thing. He was a Fortune 500 company and pushing them to make strides to create these more inclusive workplaces, not only for their employees but also for their vendors, and just seeing a lot of those, like, conversations happen at our dinner table--my mother was an attorney at a law firm, and I think she was one of the only black attorneys, and she was also a female. And so just kind of--these are the conversations that you would come home to for dinner, and just hearing about the things that they were dealing with and how, you know, how they would get through it and how they would grow and maybe even how they decided to exit, you know? And then working with Netta and really seeing how we built this village and this corporate space to talk to each other about raises, promotions, breastfeeding advice, whatever, you know? We were leaning--although it's important to lean in, sometimes you also have to lean on somebody, [and i oop sfx] and so we had to lean on each other, you know? So we met--I think it was lunch. I don't want to be cliche and say it was brunch. And we were just, you know, articulating how this needed to become something that other people could participate in, and with our backgrounds in tech it just seemed like the right path. It seemed like the thing that we should do. And I think in my heart I wanted Netta to be like, "That was a horrible idea," [laughs] but she was like, "Girl, yes. We have to do this," and, you know, immediately we connected with a company that we knew--he actually went to college with me and is an alpha, and [I'm an AK?], and so I reached out to him immediately and was like, "We need a dope website," and they were able to work with us to create that. And I really feel like it's been, like, this catalyst that has helped us launch and helped us reach so many people. Zach: Well, shout-out to the Divine Nine, you know what I'm saying? [they laugh] I respect how you slipped that in there. You know, I'm a [?], but I always respect my--Jacinta: [laughing] It was not intentional.Zach: No, no, no, but it just comes out, you know?Jacinta: This is true. It just leaps out, yes. [laughs]Zach: Can you--I know we're gonna get to Netta's side, but I just want to pause really fast. I'm gonna respectfully ask that you tell your sister, Kamala Harris, to promote this episode when it comes out. We won't use any type of logos, so don't sue us please. But if you could just--[all laughing]Jacinta: I will [?] her right now. I will slide in her DMs. [laughs]Zach: Please. If you could. We'll even--I was about to joke and say we'll even put, like, some [?]--but I don't want any type of [Law and Order sfx], you know? No issues.Jacinta: Yes, I respect that.Zach: Okay. Well, cool, I appreciate the answer. Netta, please go ahead.Netta: Yeah, no, I--oh, my gosh. I don't have much to add other than Jacinta was definitely spot on. That's exactly how it happened, and we're really excited about this--you know, overall excited about this platform because it gives people a chance to really share their experiences, and also it gives us a chance to hold companies accountable if they are not doing it right. It gives us a chance to guide professionals of color in the right direction. It's funny - I'm a part of, you know, many different Slack channels. One in particular, Black Tech Women, and just today there were a couple of people that were just talking about, "Hey, I wish I could gain insight on this particular company," or "Do you guys know what's happening to this technology company?" You know, "How's the culture there for people of color?" And I'm like, "Listen, head to ourdipper.com, because we definitely provide that type of insight." So there's a lot more people that's looking for that. They don't want to waste their time in organizations that aren't going to value them, and we're really excited to be, you know, launching something like this that can push professionals of color in the right direction.Zach: I know we're kind of talking, like, around it. Like, we're saying, like, you know, at a high level what it is, but, like, from what we talked about, Netta, in our conversation--like, help me understand. If we were to, like, kind of compare it to something, is it almost like Glassdoor but, like, for the black people? And brown people?Netta: I don't want to say Glassdoor, right? We could say maybe, like, if Glassdoor, Yelp, and Black Lives Matter had a baby. Zach: Oh, snap. Okay, got you. I got you.Jacinta: That was good.Netta: Can I get a boom or a bang?Zach: Oh, hold on. Hold on, I apologize. Hold on, hold on, hold on. [Flex bomb sfx] You know what I'm saying? Hold on. [kids applause sfx] You know what I'm saying? Hold on. [kids applause sfx] You know what I'm saying? I got y'all. I got y'all. I was gonna make, like, a really bad joke and say, like, "Is it like Vibraniumdoor?" Jacinta: [laughs] And it's really focused--I think Netta and I--and this is all based on the type of people you have in your network, but, like, I know with my girls, like, you can complain--we can complain to each other. We can vent, but after you're done talking, they're gonna be like, "So what are you doing?" Like, "What are you doing? What are we doing? What are you doing different?" Like, "Are you gonna make a move?" And I think that's where we saw the gap. It's like, "Yes, we want you to vent, we want you to have a safe space," but we also think it is time and there needs to be a space for someone to ask an organization, "What are you doing? "What are you doing to fix it?" "What are you doing to make this better?" "What are you doing to retain these talented people who are exiting, and they all happen to be brown?" You know, just really addressing critical issues and making that information, you know, accessible to them but within reason. Accessible and actionable, you know? 'Cause this is a safe place, and it is an anonymous platform, you know? And that is the key. We want people to feel protected, because they are, and I think a lot of times we don't speak out. And Netta often talks to me about this, like, "People aren't speaking out because they don't feel safe." And so that was very important to us, that this community is our top priority, and, like, that is where we want our goal to be.Zach: So it kind of sounds--again, while keeping people safe, it's like you really got receipts on people. So let's just say, like, if--I don't know, I ain't tryna mess up my sponsorship dollars so I'm not gonna say a company, but let's just say Insert Company Here was like, "We're mad inclusive," and y'all come back with the receipts looking like [haha sfx]. Like, "No, you're not," you know what I'm saying? We got all these people saying there's some issues you need to shape up. But we also talked about the fact that, like, it's not just for airing organizations out. It also can be a place where people are also giving positive feedback and stories, right?Netta: Right.Jacinta: Absolutely.Netta: And overall, we want these companies improved, you know? If they're not doing well, we want to be able to provide them with the solutions to solve that issue. We're not leaving them high and dry, and, you know, I think that's the difference with other platforms or a Glassdoor or a Yelp. ["stupid" sfx plays in the background] We're looking to improve these companies. Jacinta: Mm-hmm. And you want to know where--like, you want to know if some place is a good place for you to go to, and we get--just as many bad reviews as we get we get good ones, and, you know, we get people who are like, "I've had a great experience here. I've been able to grow. I've been developed. I have an amazing mentor. I want more people who are brown and more people of color to come here. I don't want to be the only one." You know? So I want to see them here more and know about the opportunities here. Zach: No, it's really cool, and I do hear your point around, like, you're not just gathering the data just to gather the data. Like, there's a consulting play to it too, right? Where you then say, "Look, this is what people are saying good and bad. Here are our recommendations," and then you're able to actually come alongside them to your point and actually, like, be a partner. And I think it's interesting because there's so many organizations out there, even as we have these group meetings and Slacks and folks are venting and stuff, [and] there really has yet to be one central location where we'll be like, "Mm-mm. Dawg, don't go over there. Mm-mm." You know what I'm saying? But it should be like that. Like, you know, the Lion King remake came out. People want to act like the Lion King remake wasn't fire. I thought it was great, but whatever. So remember, like, when Mufasa was, like, looking over the cliff, right, and he was talking to Simba, and he was like, "Everything the light touches is your kingdom," and Simba was like, "Oh, snap. What about over there?" He said, "That is the elephant graveyard. You don't ever go over there. Relax." That's pretty much like--you know, that's an opportunity for Dipper too, but, like, we don't really have that. We don't have a collective, you know, Pride Land overview of the workplace as it were.Netta: Yeah, and companies--I believe it was last year, McKinsey and Company did a study, and, like, companies are spending more than $8 billion on diversity and inclusion efforts. And we're like, "Who is that benefiting?" Zach: It ain't benefiting nobody. We've still got blackface on company pencils.Jacinta: Exactly. We're not on your board of directors. Few and far between of us are CEOs of the Fortune 500, 1000 companies, and, you know, we get pings--Netta and I get pings all of the time, especially in, like, the VC world, of people saying, "Do you know somebody who could be my chief of operations? Do you know somebody who could be my chief of people?" And we're like, "Absolutely." Like, I will respond to people with a list, LinkedIn profiles connected, you know? Because we feel we are here, we exist, and there just really needs to be this space for us. And there are people also who have done this before us, you know? There are people who may have been peers to my father [kids applause sfx] and they have a lot of insights to share, but they don't have a place to share them, you know? So it's kind of like we can't all go to the conference, we can't all go to the talk, but you could participate in our website and go to ourdipper.com.Netta: Right, and I think companies definitely have this warped perception of that "Okay, well, if we have a few black and brown faces, we've won," you know? "Let's put out the PR," and obviously it's much deeper than that like Jacinta was saying. There's the equity piece. Are we giving people the access and the exposure to not only move up but to have a voice and are able to lead, you know, in their own way? A lot of the times, when we hear about black and brown folks' experiences that are in high-level positions, they're still kind of oppressed, right? They really don't have that power to lead and that confidence. So, you know, those are key data points that we definitely want to bring out and share, again so that these companies are improved.Zach: Man, you said a lot right there, you know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to, like, wear out the Flex bomb, so I'ma just give it a little break. [all laugh] And you know--this is the thing, right? There is a--I don't know. I feel like sometimes, you know, these companies, they think they've just done SO much when they put, like, two black people in charge, you know what I'm saying? And we're like, "Yeah, but there's nobody else." And then these two--like you just said, these two black people, like, they're not really doing anything, or you just kind of shuffle 'em out there and they just kind of say some canned message that you wanted them to say. They're not really moving the needle in no kind of way. You talk to 'em and they're looking back at you--you know, they're looking back at you like that blank face on Get Out, you know what I'm saying? You go in for the dap, they grab your fist. You're like, "What happened?" Like, what's going on, you know what I'm saying? So--Jacinta: Or they sometimes don't have the support. They really don't have that support, so they're feeling alone, you know? Even if there's just two, two of you, it's like you may not have that guidance that you need to feel confident to really make those moves that you may want to make, and I think that happens with a lot of people.Zach: No, you're absolutely right. 'Cause I'ma tell you for me, like, you know, I'm in a position--and often times I'm one of the only ones in these spaces, but if I see one--if I see somebody that looks like me but maybe is, like, I don't know, my dad's age, I'm like, "Oh, snap, what's going on?" And they don't say anything back to me or they kind of give me some, you know, guarded response, I go--now, outside I'm smiling, but on the inside I'm like [damn, damn, damn sfx] You know what I'm saying? Just, like, what's going on?Jacinta: Yeah, and that's--and I wonder too, like, how many times are we, in these leadership roles and scared, you know, to--'cause I know I've walked in meetings, and this is me jokingly, like, you know, if there are more than three of us gathered, I'm gonna make an announcement. [laughs]Zach: What you gonna announce?Jacinta: Like, if we're at work and I walk in a meeting and there's three of us, I'm like, "Oh, we're meeting." You know, "This is happening." You know, I'm excited about it, but I do think there's definitely a category of people who are kind of working in fear, but part of that is just--like we were talking about earlier, knowing your voice, feeling confident and being able to use your voice, and that's part of it. Like, you're just at a place where you don't feel like it's safe enough for you to even have a voice.Netta: Right. I mean, I've even had people say to me they've been nervous to connect with, you know, another black or brown person in the workspace because they didn't want others to feel like they were trying to take over, right? So it would be--like, they would do a little silent text, like, "Meet me outside," and I'm like, "What?" You know? And so that happens a lot too. Zach: No, it does, and I think--how much of that, I wonder, is, like, also generational though? 'Cause, like, it gets to a certain point--and what excites me about Dipper and what I'm hearing is it kind of, like, removes the excuse of white gaze, right? Like, I'm not--white GAZE. G-A-Z-E, y'all. Gaze, you know what I'm saying? White gaze. Yeah, so just the idea of, you know, you needing to kind of, like, be performative in some way or hide a part of who you are, right? Because, you know, come on. Like, really? I mean, you know, we was kings and stuff, but I'm saying, like, two of us can't take over an entire Fortune 50 company. Like, come on now. Like, I should be able to have a conversation with you in the elevator without, you know, y'all thinking we plotting the revolution, right? Stokely Carmichael is not in here. Huey P. Newton is not here.Jacinta: I'm also like, "So what if we are?" [all laugh]Zach: I'm saying. I'm looking back at them like [Cardi B hehe sfx], you know what I'm saying?Jacinta: Because some of it is part--you know, what I think I have kind of lived by in the workplace is if I'm exceeding my performance metrics, if I am busting my tail to, like, meet goals, is there really a boundary? I mean, if I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, is there a boundary? Now, sometimes there are hurdles for you being able to successfully do what you're doing, and that needs to be addressed, but, you know, I think if you have a team full of people who are brown, but they're the top team in the company, nobody--people see green, you know? And nobody is going to say anything. I think the problem is when there's a board seat available, people see their friends in their immediate network, and those people all look alike, and so it's like, "How do we get into that flow?" And really we have to do it working together, you know? It can't just be the one person. It really is going to take a lot of us working together. 'Cause who's gonna tell you--like, wh's gonna give you the heads up that, like, "Oh, I know that's your salary, but every other president in the company is making five times that." [laughs] You know? Like, you're going to need those types of insights, and sometimes you're not going to know that if you don't have [?]--Netta: [? drive that?].Jacinta: Yeah, exactly. Zach: So let's talk a little about 2020, right? Like, what are y'all most excited about that Dipper is gonna be doing, like, in 2020? Like, what has y'all, like, really going?Jacinta: Mm-hmm. For me, because I love tech and I love data, that's what I think about almost every night, and I think in 2020 our product is really going to evolve. You know, right now we have the ability to go onto our site, write a review, share their experience, and in 2020 it'll be even so much greater and so much more, and that is something that really excites me about what's to come. You know, the more people who are joining our community, the more in-depth we can make that community experience, and the things that we want to do to provide people with insights on, you know, like we said, salary, available jobs, are just really exciting to me, and all of that data and information that people will have at their fingertips just makes me really looking forward to the new year.Zach: So this has been a dope conversation and we appreciate both of y'all being here. Again, you know what I'm saying, shout-out to everything that y'all are doing. Shout-out to Dipper, you know what I'm saying? I really enjoyed this conversation. I've enjoyed the soundbites. Have y'all enjoyed the soundbites? I've enjoyed my own soundbites - have y'all enjoyed the soundbites?Netta: Yes.Jacinta: Absolutely.Zach: Okay, great. You know what we haven't done, you know what I'm saying, we have not really given y'all the respect of, you know, these air horns, so Sound Man, go ahead and put these air horns right HERE. [air horns sfx] You know, it's just a compliment. It's a thing that we do. It's customary, you know what I mean? It's been over--it's almost, like, two years, and we've been playing these air horns for the good guests. Now, we haven't had any bad guests, but I'm just saying, sometimes we play the air horns just a little bit louder, you know what I mean? And y'all are on the louder side, so we appreciate y'all. Before we go, any shout-outs or parting words?Netta: Yeah. Well, first and foremost, thank you so much for having us on this platform. This was awesome. We're really excited about, you know, the partnerships, the meaningful relationships that we're creating, you know, with different organizations, and we're really excited about our full dynamic platform that's gonna be revealed to the world. This is truly gonna be game-changing and helpful for people of color that are really looking to be guided in the right direction.Jacinta: Absolutely, and I mirror that sentiment exactly. We're so thankful for this opportunity and to be able to speak with you and your audience, and, you know, really just shout-out everybody, all of you who have left a review, who have sent us your feedback and cheering us on, patting us on the back, and even those of you that have challenged us--and maybe even shaded us a little bit--you know, it's all fuel.Zach: Big up to our haters one time.Jacinta: [laughs] We love it, yeah. You can't live without 'em, and, you know, it's been an amazing ride, and it's just the beginning, and, you know, we're just incredibly thankful.Zach: Well, first of all, look, we appreciate y'all. And look, y'all, if you're listening to this--I want everybody to stop, okay? If you're in your car, you know what I'm saying, pull over to the side of the road, okay? Put your hazards on and go to ourdipper.com. This is not even an ad. It's just for the love, you know what I mean? Like, y'all didn't pay us nothing, you know what I mean? It's just off the muscle. So go to ourdipper.com. And you go ahead and just scroll down, you know what I mean, and at the bottom what you're gonna see is--it's gonna say "Need advice? Please take a few moments to provide some insights about your current workplace and experience." Now, look, some of y'all know that Kathy in accounting has been getting on your nerves, okay? Some of y'all know y'all ain't been getting that raise that you need, and some of y'all know you're not having a great experience. Take the time. Go on ourdipper.com. Provide the input. You're not only helping yourself, you're helping everybody that looks like you. And maybe some folks that don't look like you, you know what I'm saying? But lift as you climb. Okay, now, look, this has been a dope episode. Y'all know you've been listening to the Living Corporate podcast. You can check us out anywhere on LivingCorporate--we're on all the platforms. iHeartRadio, Spotify, Soundcloud, YouTube, you know, Pandora. What's another streaming--Google Play, you know what I'm saying? We out here is my point. We active, you know what I mean? Jacinta, 'cause you said you were an [fraternity/sorority], right? [all laugh] We active, you know what I'm saying? You know, we ain't just show up on Homecoming Week, you know what I'm saying, giving people problems. Like, we actually--Jacinta: No t-shirt wearing. [laughs]Zach: Exactly. We're not no [?], you know what I'm saying? We earned ours, you know what I'm saying? We went through the [?]. Don't play with us. [both laugh] So the point is, you know, we appreciate y'all. Check us out on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, Instagram @LivingCorporate. If you have any questions you want to email us, you know what I'm saying, livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can also just DM us if you have any questions and you want to shout us out. If you want us to shout somebody out for y'all, hit us up. Let's see. Website? Living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com. Now, you also could do livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net. We've got all of the livingcorporates, y'all... we don't have livingcorporate.com, though. Not yet. Not yet.Jacinta: Soon come.Zach: Soon come, hey. [both laugh] Let's see here. That's it. You've been listening to Zach, and of course you've been listening to Netta and Jacinta, co-founders and movers and shakers of Dipper and Edge Snatchers. Peace.

On the seventh entry of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, graciously shares ten pieces of advice regarding changing your mindset to stop settling in your career. We have to stop doubting that we're good enough for the jobs that we ultimately desire!Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. If you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you're in the right place. I'm here with Living Corporate, and today we're talking about changing your mindset to stop settling in your career. If you all have been listening to the previous episodes, you know that I am a career coach. I've worked with hundreds of professionals over the past few years, just helping them identify what their dream careers are and how to actually go out and secure them, and one thing that I have realized over the course of being a coach is that a lot of us really struggle with changing our mindset around what we deserve and knowing what we truly deserve and not settling in our career. If you are settling in your career and you know it, this podcast is for you. There's a few tips that I have on how I want you all to think about what your life would look like if you were actually doing something that you truly loved. The main thing that you'll hear when you tell someone that you are looking for a new job is "All right, you've got to get your resume together, make sure you get your LinkedIn together, and go and reach out to these recruiters," right? Like, that's the advice we typically hear, but no one truly talks about your mindset and being mentally prepared to actually think about looking for a new job, going about the job search, thinking about and putting energy and effort and time into figuring out what it is you want to do. Then on top of that you have to go and talk to people, you've got to apply to these jobs, sit around and wait for interviews. I mean, it is a whole thing. It's not just as easy as "Boom, get my resume done. Boom, get my LinkedIn done." Right? And one thing that I've heard a lot of people say recently, and my clients have said this before--and they know I will always get on you if you say this--"I'm hoping this job will give me a chance." If you've ever said that before, this is for you. I want you to change your mindset around that. You have so much more control over your career than you give yourself credit for. So instead of asking yourself or telling yourself "I hope this job will give me a chance," ask yourself "Do I want to give them a chance?" Okay? Again, you went to school for your degree, your Master's degree. You have the qualifications. You have skills. You have experience. No one can take that away from you, you know? It is yours, and we have to stop doubting that we're good enough for this career that we ultimately desire. We are quick to talk ourselves out of applying to jobs if we don't meet all of the requirements. You know, we talk ourselves out of things that we deserve, and we spend over a third of our lives at work. So we have to make sure that we are operating at our highest, highest power. This I have seen more with women, and it has been, you know, statistically proven that women will actually not apply to positions--or I will say they are less likely to apply to positions if they don't meet all of the requirements, where as men are more inclined to apply to positions, whether they meet, you know, 50% or 60% of them. So again, just know that you have so much more control over your career than you're giving yourself credit for. So I just have ten tips that will help you with just changing your mindset. One is know that this whole thing is bigger than you. I ended up leaving corporate to--and I was a recruiter--but I ended up leaving to focus on, you know, leading and growing my career consulting agency, because I realized that I could make much more of an impact if I were out, you know, doing this on my own than being held back by that position that I was in. I thought about who would not be helped or who would not be impacted if I didn't take that leap of faith. So just know that, you know, your career, what you are set to do, is so much bigger than you. It is also about the lives that you will change, you know, the difference that you will make. So ask yourself. If staying in that role that you feel is holding you back won't get you to actually make that difference that you are meant to do. The other thing as well is if you are, you know, a parent, or if you have children, if you have people that are looking up to you and looking to you for guidance and looking to you for support, are you--by not doing something that you love in your career, is that affecting how you operate at home as a wife, as a husband, as a mother or father? So just know that if you are actually doing something that you love, that will--and your professional life is going well--that may in turn create a more advantageous lifestyle, personal lifestyle, and will allow you to show up and show up for others much more differently and also healthier. Number two. I hear this a lot. "I don't know what my passion is." Right? And so that one thing might keep you a little bit stagnant. Just know that a lot of us don't really figure it out until later in life. Don't beat yourself up about not knowing your passion, but think about the things that you daydream about. Think about the things that you do outside of work, you know? Think about where your mind goes, and start paying attention to your thinking patterns at work. Where do you see yourself really being in your zone, you know? What do your coworkers always compliment you on for doing a great job at, you know? What do your family and friends come to you for for help? Even outside of work. You may not know what your passion is just yet, but that doesn't mean that it's not out there. It just hasn't yet been discovered, but we are still, you know, growing, even throughout our 20s, throughout our 30s, so your passion may change over time. But don't let that hold you back from settling in your career. Number three - envision the life that you want. What would your ideal day look like if you were doing something that you loved? You know, we don't allow ourselves the opportunities to dream anymore, you know? Dreaming was something we did as children I guess, right? And then we graduate and start working, and corporate America just beats us down and--[laughs]--we kind of forget to dream and just get excited about our future and our career. So this is something that I have all of my clients do is write a vision statement down. Envision that life that you want. What would be your ideal day? This is going to sound a little cheesy, but visualization exercises are great. Close your eyes. Think about who you would be with, what you would be doing, who you would be working with. Who would you be doing it for, right? And really push yourself to get out of your comfort zone as you're thinking about this, and write down what you see. I had a career coach that I had been working with, and we recently got reconnected earlier this year, and he actually asked me to do this while were on the phone. And I kind of laughed and was like, "What? I'm not closing my eyes and dreaming. What are you talking about?" He was like, "Girl, just do it." [laughs] So it kind of took me a few seconds to get into it, but then, as I started to really allow myself to dream, I saw myself speaking in front of hundreds of thousands of people internationally and, you know, to be honest, that's something that I've always wanted, but because I haven't really dreamed, I've been so stuck in the just day-to-day of the work and just trying to run the business, you know? I haven't really dreamed about what I want for my life, you know, a year or months down the road. And ever since I envisioned that, one I've been more intentional about, you know, getting speaking opportunities, and I'm starting to get so much more nowadays. So visualize that. Write it down, okay? Number four. Write down what you want in your next job. This is something that I have all of my clients do as well. I call it your career values. Just do [?] a list of what you want in your next job. What type of benefits do you want? Do you want a flex schedule? Do you want to work remote? Do you want to travel 50% of the time? Do you want to lead a team? You know, do you want to--if you don't want to lead a team, do you want to be a sole contributor, you know? But write down what you want in your next job. That will allow you to make sure that you're asking the right questions and you're being very intentional about the companies, the jobs that you're focused on, but think about what you really want, you know? If you are just applying to jobs that you think, you know, "Well, I meet the qualifications. Let me just apply without really taking into consideration if that job is right for [me]," that may allow you to settle again. So think about what it is that you want. I have all of my clients do this, and they all kind of struggle with it, you know, at first, because no one really asks you, like, "What is it that you want," you know? So I love to hear what are some of those things that you come up with, and if you can get that list up to 30 or 40, that would be awesome. Number five: practice bragging out loud and get confident in that. Men do this all of the time, [laughs] particularly white men. So practice bragging out loud, but first do an inventory. Do an inventory of all of your accomplishments over your career. You know, start tracking that, you know, every single week or every single month throughout your career. I call it a brag sheet. And if you ever start doubting your greatness or who you are and what you deserve, you can always go back and reference that brag sheet. That will allow you to just increase your confidence so that you know, "Look, I did all of this stuff right here. I'm definitely much, much deserving of my dream job." Think about the barriers that are holding you back. This is number six. Think about the barriers that are holding you back, and when I say holding you back I mean holding you back from going after your next job, going after your dream job, that's holding you back and keeping you in that position of settling, keeping you stagnant. I will hear this from my clients [?]. "They promised me a promotion six months down the road, twelve months down the road." Just think about what you could be missing out on, what you could have already gotten, if you were to step out and try something new, a new role. Let's say--it's September now, right, and you're waiting on a bonus in December. If that bonus is $5,000, I promise you when you are going after your next job, negotiate. Tell them, "Hey, I really want to work here. However, my current job is giving me a bonus. I'm expecting to receive it in December. It's $5,000. What can we all do here to compensate for this bonus that I will be missing out on?" Right? Problem solved. So write down what those barriers are, and if you can write down those barriers, you can start to identify some solutions. Number seven: practice doing some things out of your comfort zone unrelated to your career. And sometimes I'll just tell my clients like, "Hey, just drive a different way home from work. Go to a new restaurant. Go to a new park. Try a new hobby." You know? "Go to a meet-up." Do something out of your comfort zone so that you can get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Another thing you can do is get clear on another area of your life. Maybe it's finances, you know? Getting clear on your finances, getting in control of that. Maybe you're needing to clean up your space, your living space. What are those other areas of life not tied to professional goals where you could use some organization, you could use some control? And that may help you to kind of clear your mind when it comes to your career. Number eight: communicate what you want and what you're looking for when you're networking. Think about your career values, as you're going to write down, and just know that, and tell people, like, "This is the type of job that I want. I want to be able to travel. I need a remote environment. I need a flex schedule." Right? Like, just be bold and state your needs. Be clear and specific. And the other thing that I would say here too is if you don't know what you want, you're closer to figuring out what you do want. Number nine: know that doing it with fear is better than not doing it at all. You don't want to live with regrets in your career, and if you have been regretting, you know, staying in this job for so long and not looking at something new, then do it afraid. Number ten is the last thing here. It's work with a career coach that focuses on mindset. Now that I have been coaching for quite some time, I have added a mindset component into my program because I'm realizing that we have to get our mindsets all the way together first, because that is essentially the thing that will keep us stagnant and settling. So, you know, work with a coach. Shameless plug. [laughs] But you do need to really think about your mindset, knowing that you deserve it. We all doubt ourselves. I have clients that earn well over six figures. They have Master's degrees. They have Ph.Ds in this and that, and they still struggle with this doubt, with impostor syndrome, with feeling like they're settling. So you need someone that's gonna help to pull that out of you and help you to step into your greatness. So I hope this was helpful. Feel free to reach out to me. I would love to hear feedback on this. And if you are going to take any of these tips, if you try 'em out, you know, just let me know. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter @Latesha_Byrd, L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd. So hit me up. I would love to hear how it goes. So that is all that I have for today, so thank you all for listening, and I will see you next time. 

On the thirty-first installment of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield shares a couple of things you can do to set yourself up to have a great first week on the new job. The first week of work can be an exciting and fun time, but it can also be anxiety-inducing. Hopefully these tips help ease the transition into your new role!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What is going on, y' all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week let’s talk about a couple of things you can do to set yourself up to have a great first week on the new job.The first week of work can be an exciting and fun time but it can also be anxiety-inducing. A new place to navigate, new people to remember, and a whole new set of responsibilities to learn. There are a few things that I’ve done each time I’ve started a new job that have made my transition a little easier, and I hope they can help you kill it on your first week.Take notes, in fact, keep a small notebook near you as much as possible. During the first week on the job so much information is thrown at you that it’s difficult to remember it all. Onboarding tasks, names, meetings, new processes, and so much more. The more you document, the more you’ll have to refer back to later.Take some time to get familiar with the office. There’s nothing worse than the sudden panic when you have a meeting in a minute but you don’t know where the conference room is. Take the time in the first couple of days to feel out the space and learn where your team typically meets.If you can, find an office buddy. Pairing up with someone who’s been in the office and is at or around your level of seniority, will help you acclimated and help get your questions answered.Last, but definitely not least try to learn the names and positions of the people you see or interact with often. It’s the worst when people greet you by name and you don’t have a clue who they are or what they do. Committing this info to memory not only makes the office feel more like home, but it reduces anxiety and helps you figure out who to go to when you need help with certain things.Hopefully these tips help ease the transition into your new role.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, twitter, and facebook at @layfieldresume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn!

Zach sits down with award-winning author and race and gender empowerment expert Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever to talk about identity, self-advocacy, and resistance in the context of the workplace. Dr. Avis also shares some advice for black and brown women who are still struggling to find their voice and advocate for themselves at work.Connect with Avis on her website and through social media! Twitter, IG, Facebook, LinkedInCheck out her book, How Exceptional Black Women Lead, on Amazon!Read her piece on NBC BLK! Black Women, Work and the Normalcy of DisrespectTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, every episode we try to bring y'all something special, right? We either have an influencer, an educator, a speaker, an author, you know, a mover, a shaker, you know? And today we're actually blessed to have all of those things and more with our guest, Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever. Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever is an Award-Winning Author, International Speaker, Political Commentator, and Race & Gender Empowerment Expert. As a serial entrepreneur, Dr. Avis is the founder of the Washington DC Boutique Consulting Firm, Incite Unlimited, along with The Exceptional Leadership Institute and World Changers Media, LLC. Dr. Avis’ organizations offer leadership, diversity & inclusion, entrepreneurship and media training along with communications strategy development and the implementation of impactful research. Her clients include major corporations, non-profit organizations and governmental entities based both domestically and abroad. So that's everywhere, okay? Now, look, some of y'all probably have already seen Dr. DeWeever 'cause she's had--she's been seen on a variety of platforms, including CNN, Fox News, PBS, C-SPAN, TV One, BET, BBC, NPR, Sirius XM Radio--come on, now--the Washington Post, the Atlantic, Essence, Ebony, and many, many more. She currently serves as a Contributor to The Huffington Post, Black Enterprise and NBC BLK. Now, look here. I gotta get something for that. [Cardi B "ow" sfx]. Okay, now look, Dr. Avis also serves as a member of the Board of Directors of the Voter Participation Center, Women’s Voices. Women’s Vote, and the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation. In addition, she’s the Sr. Public Policy Advisor to the Black Women’s Roundtable, an Affiliated Scholar to the Institute for Women’s Policy Research, and a member of the Closing the Racial Wealth Gap Initiative. But in her most important role, she serves as a mother to two magnificent young men who will one day, undoubtedly, change the world. Dr. DeWeever, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Avis: I am doing [laughs]--I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.Zach: Oh, no, thank you for being here. Now look, I've got all these questions for you, but the first question, which I recognize has to be the question on top of everybody's mind... which one of these sandwiches is better? Is it the Chick-fil-A sandwich or is it the Popeyes sandwich?Avis: [laughs] Okay. Well, you know, everybody was talking about the whole Popeyes thing, so I just had to try it 'cause, you know, I'm just like, "What is all the commotion about?" Zach: Of course, of course.Avis: And I'm not a big Chick-fil-A person either, so--I have to be honest, I've never even tasted Chick-fil-A’s sandwich 'cause I'm not really that much into chicken sandwiches. I don't really get the purpose of putting the chicken in-between two pieces of bread.Zach: [horrified] Oh, no...Avis: I don't know. To me, the Popeyes chicken--okay, unpopular opinion, it was so darn crunchy I didn't really hardly get a taste. All I tasted was the outside.Zach: Oh, the skin.Avis: I try to stay away from fried stuff anyway, so.Zach: Well, good for you for taking care of yourself. You've got to manage your temple. Avis: Exactly.Zach: You know, it's a long-term investment.Avis: You ain't lying there. [both laugh] Hey, listen. If I would've had--if I had the metabolism I had 20 years ago, I'd be all the way in on a chicken sandwich. Since I don't, I'm leaving it alone, right?Zach: [laughs] Hey, I definitely understand. Now, I have yet to try it--well, let me take it a step back. I've yet to try the Popeyes sandwich, but I just--I don't know, man. It's hard. And this is not an ad, you know, and of course Chick-fil-A has their own problematic points of view as well, but I don't know. I just don't know, Doc. I don't know if I can get with that Popeyes. I don't know, but, you know, it's the total experience. Anyway, look, let's--all jokes aside, [both laugh] today we're talking about--we're talking about a few things, 'cause you have so much to offer, right? So we're gonna talk about a few things. We're talking about identity, self-advocacy, and resistance in the context of the workplace. Now, you've written a number of works that encapsulate perspectives and frustrations of black folks, specifically black women. Can you speak a bit about some of the works that you've written and how those challenges don't stop when you get to work?Avis: Absolutely. So I think probably my most significant work in this area is my book, "How Exceptional Black Women Lead," and with that I interviewed over 70 black women across the nation who--and some internationally--who are absolutely extraordinary in what they do, have ascended to amazing levels in terms of leadership success across a variety of different career platforms--or areas I guess is a better way of saying it--and I have to say, still all of them faced the double whammy, the double barrier, of being black and being a woman and having to sort of navigate the intersections of that all along the way to get to where they were, and I think the bottom line is that we all face, no matter where we are, no matter what industry we're in, whether we're corporate, whether we're non-profit, you know, whether we're entrepreneurs, those same--there are different rules that seem to be in play when it comes to us as compared to the other guys, and the bottom line is that we just--we recognize that as the reality, but we cannot let those bumps in the road become road blocks. We have to figure out how to navigate around them, and so what I've found inspiring by speaking with these amazing women is that they found a way to break through those road blocks, to get over those humps and bumps, and still make a way to the top. And if they can do it, other people can do it too.Zach: No, 100%, and it's so interesting too. I think that, you know, it's so easy--well, on my side, 'cause I'm a man, so I participate in patriarchy and male privilege, and I think about the more and more that I talk to--of course my mother as I've just gotten older and just, like, kind of think back about times when I was a child and some of the things she experienced at work, as well as just my black female colleagues. When I talk to them, just the amount of trauma and abuse and disrespect that, like, y'all endure and just casually put up with, right?Avis: Yeah. Oh, God.Zach: Right? And it's--like, every time I meet a black woman at work, she always has at least one extra degree more than I do, right? You know, you and I were having this conversation on Black Women's Equal Pay Day, and it just--there's a pattern here of black women being underpaid and overeducated, overqualified for the roles, and underpromoted, right? Undersponsored. You know, just to the point you're looking at 'em like [what more do you want from me? sfx] [both laugh] You know? Just, like, "What's going on?" [both laugh]Avis: Oh, my god. That was perfect. [both laugh] Oh, it's so true. And in fact, you know, actually I wrote a piece for NBC BLK called Black Women and the Normalcy of Disrespect, and it talks exactly about this issue. Everything that you mentioned, plus on top of that the issue of often times having your brilliance basically gentrified by other people in the workplace, right? So doing the hard work, not getting the credit, seeing other people that you basically trained leapfrog over you, it has in many ways become normal, and I think--and that also is related to another fact, that black women are the leading demographic in the nation just to say "Bump this," and start their own businesses, right? Because I think many of us come to the realization that "If my brilliance is not gonna be respected here, why am I giving away my pearls for this? To this?" Right? "Why not cast my pearls in my own favor?" And so a lot of us are making that transition to entrepreneurship because we understand that the work that we do in the workplace often times is disrespected, is not--does not really lead to the same sort of outcomes that other people face, and so because of that we think about, well, we don't want to spend our lives in that situation. Why not see what we can do in terms of turning our intellectual capital into a good--not just for somebody else, but for ourselves.Zach: Amen, Dr. Avis. And look, those little Biblical references, you're not sleeping on me. I heard you. I got one for you too - 'cause sometimes you gotta just, you know, shake the dust from your feet, you know what I mean?Avis: Exactly. [laughs]Zach: So you just gotta make it happen, you know? But no, you're absolutely right, and I think there's also--so I'd love for you and I to talk about this in a separate conversation, but, you know, Living Corporate, what we're really trying to do right now is do some research to talk about and connect the reality of work trauma, work-related trauma, with--like, the mental health impacts of work-related trauma to black and brown folks at work, because there's something that I believe--and again, I don't have a Ph.D, okay? I'm not out here hanging out with Roland Martin like you, Dr. DeWeever, but I do believe--[both laugh]--I do believe that there's some mental--I do believe it impacts your mental health to be the person who's putting all the thought leadership in, but then someone comes in, quote unquote cleans it up, and then they get all of the credit for it, right? I think that that's--that does something to you over time.Avis: It can be traumatic, and dealing with a daily sort of barrage of microaggressions and macroaggressions and not seeing other people sort of stand up and acknowledge what it is and call a thing a thing is also traumatic. I just had a conversation with a client last night who is a tenured professor at a university, went to an event at her university where there was a guest speaker, and apparently the guest speaker--white--used the N-word, and--[record scratch sfx] And she was shocked. She was insulted. And just as much as she was shocked and insulted, she was also hurt that none of her white colleagues said anything. Zach: No, that's terrible. That's terrible.Avis: So in essence she felt betrayed, right? So, you know, it is traumatic. It can be traumatic to continue to suffer those indignities every day, which is basically a coded behavior in our society that says that--that tries to tell us the lie, basically, that we don't belong, that we are not important, that we're not valued, and I think a lot of the work that I do, whether it be through my writing, whether it be through my sort of coaching with women around these issues, is really about saving our souls from that daily assault that we face in the workplace and figuring out strategies to navigate it in a way that maintains our self-dignity and allows us to put ourselves in situations where we do garner respect, whether or not that means navigating those spaces within that environment in a way that changes that dynamic so that you are treated with the respect that you deserve, or in some situations it may mean finding a better environment that is healthier for you, because it does not do you any good to stay in a workplace that is constantly assaulting your dignity. It will impact your health. It will impact your peace of mind. And let me tell you, no check is worth that.Zach: Oh--listen, hold on. Hold on. [straight up sfx] You're absolutely right. Listen, 'cause--and this is the thing. I think we're in a really interesting intersection of increased awareness--if I'm gonna go by social media, and if I look at, like, the wellness trends today, especially within, like, the black and brown community, we're in an interesting intersection of millennials being more and more prominent in the workplace and mental health being, like, more and more openly discussed, and I think that, you know, we've seen trends now that people--like, my generation will leave. You know, they're talking about "This ain't working?" You know what I'm saying? They'll say, "Well, you know, if you're not gonna be able to work these crazy hours and be treated like this, you're gonna have to find a new job." We'll be like [Shannon Sharpe "that ain't no problem" sfx]--it's not a problem. Like, we will transition, you know? [both laugh]Avis: I would be like, "Deuces!"Zach: Deuces. Like, goodbye.Avis: But you know what? That in and of it self is a good strategy. You know, I think we need to acknowledge the wisdom of that in a couple of different ways. I mean, not only are you saving your soul from those stressors that, as I mentioned, impact your physical health and your mental health, quite frankly your strongest point of negotiation when it comes to salary is when you have a new job opportunity. So moving to that next opportunity and that next opportunity and that next opportunity in a relatively short period of time helps you to be able to exponentially grow your earning power a lot more than individuals often times who choose to spend long periods of time in one place and get stuck and have a hard time moving up that ladder. [cha-ching sfx] So I think often times people talk about millennials in very disparaging ways, and I think in many ways some of those folks need to sit back and watch y'all and learn from what you're doing, because that makes nothing but sense to me.Zach: Oh, listen. If you look at my little LinkedIn--and I'm not leaving a job every couple months, don't get me wrong, but I've zig-zagged. I've got a little positive zig-zag action going on, and you just gotta keep your eyes open, 'cause I'll show up to a whole new job talking about [Kawhi "what it do baby?" sfx] Like, I will leave. Like, I will--boy. Anyway, [both laugh] let's keep it going. You know what? And this is the thing, Dr. DeWeever. You're making me laugh more, so then I'm using more of these sound effects, but that's fine. I appreciate the encouragement. Let's talk about the role that intersectionality plays in the work that you do, right? And so Incite Unlimited, you know, you're a D&I expert--you're a diversity, equity, and inclusion expert. What does it look like to discuss race and gender and engage white women, who may assume that your challenges and lived experiences are either if not the same highly similar?Avis: That's a problem. [both laugh, haha sfx] That's a huge problem. But in all seriousness, honestly, these days, I'm so frustrated with where we are in the D&I space period, DE&I space. I'm frustrated because many companies--and I talk about this a bit in my book--for years now, actually, have made the decision--they've made the calculated decision to preference gender diversity over racial diversity in their efforts and in their focus and programming as it relates to looking at DE&I and how it is lived out in their companies. And as I show in my book, what we've seen--and it's interesting, 'cause this dates back to 2008--we start to see a shift in who gets promoted to leadership positions in corporations, and it's interesting. It's as if there was this collective decision among corporations that "Okay, there's a black president, so black people have made it, so let's stop focusing on black folk." Right?Zach: Yes.Avis: And so what we see, if you look at the data about who actually gets promoted to management positions, is we see an exponential increase in the number of white women who get those positions, and at the same time we've seen a mirrored effect of a decrease in the number of people of color of both genders who get those positions. So now, even though we're in a time right now where corporations are, you know, every time, you know, you see them, any time you hear anything around corporations around this issue of diversity, a lot of them have a good, you know, shtick to sell. All of them know what to say. They always talk about the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion, but when you actually look at the numbers, you actually have corporations that are getting whiter and whiter, even though they tend to tout the language of diversity, but they're just checking that box with white women instead of with people of color. So in many organizations you end up having what I call an organizational apartheid, where the leadership structures now are increasingly white, even though now you have more of those leaders wearing skirts than you did in years past. But you have even more whiteness at the top now than you did, say, 10 years ago.Zach: Listen, I had a--I was on the job, and I was talking to somebody, and they were talking about diverse the group was. And I was like, "The group is all white women." What do you mean "diverse?" Like, diverse in what way? Diverse in, like, that they're all not blonde? Or--like, what is this? And you're 100% right, and I--so look, this is the thing, right? So I am in--I'm actively in corporate America, right? Like, I'm in this space. I work for a large consulting firm. And it's increasingly frustrating, because you're absolutely--I 100% agree with you. I'm looking at the content and I'm looking at the way that things are framed, and they are often framed in very binary terms, right? They're framed in very, like, "men versus women," and it's like, "You're really going--" Like, it's insulting. Like, it's not only just ahistorical, right? It's an intellectually dishonest discussion. Avis: Absolutely.Zach: Right? It's intellectually dishonest, because in 1865, in 1845, all men were not doing the same things, okay?Avis: Absolutely not.Zach: Right? And all women were not doing the same things. And so it's like, "Okay, what does it look like to have an honest conversation about this?" You know, we actually had Lionel Lee, who--he's an inclusion lead for the Zillow Group, and I asked him, I said--like, we're just now getting to talking about black women from time to time, and we've yet to--I haven't really been a part of a lot of programs that explicitly talk about black male experiences, right? And I'm like--and look, I don't even do it and D&I is a large part of my job. I don't even do it because I recognize that I need to use my platform and my privilege to help my sisters, and--not but--and at the same time I'm like, "Dang, why don't we ever talk about the reality and nuanced experience of black men?" Like, yes, we benefit from patriarchy, and yes, we have--we have privileges that black women do not have. We're also seen as a threat at work. We're also often times patronized in a way, and it's a unique--but we don't even talk about that kind of stuff. And you're right--Avis: You're exactly right, and I would say you also suffer wage gaps. Zach: Right.Avis: People talk about wage gaps as if it's just a gender thing. It's not. It's a race and a gender thing. So just as, you know, black women, for example, suffer a double wage gap as compared to white men--which, as you mentioned, we're recording this on Black Women's Equal Pay Day. You know, black men have a pay gap with white men of similar educational backgrounds, and so black men aren't paid fairly either. And then if you look within the women's population, black women suffer a wage gap as compared to white women. Right? So no one really talks about these realities. It's not as simple as just a gender dynamic. You're exactly right. In this nation, race, color, is--no pun intended--everything. Everything. Yet, you know, there is only a sense of urgency around talking about this issue of gender at work and addressing those issues. And, you know, my theory behind that is, you know, it--let's just be real. I mean, this white men who stand at the top of the hierarchy in these spaces have white mothers. They have white wives. They have white daughters. So there is a natural alliance there that they tend to be more sensitive to than they are to black male issues, black female issues, or issues of any people of color. And so, you know, I think it's important that we acknowledge that reality, and until DE&I becomes serious about taking off the blinders and having an honest conversation around--and not just conversation, honest actions around really creating equity at work through both a race and gender lens, it will really be nothing in many ways but a farce in many organizations, where they can do a little something, have a few programs on a few special days, but when it comes to really making [?] change they cower, much like the rest of this culture. It's very hard--I wouldn't say it's hard. The normalcy of white privilege in our society creates a situation where whiteness does not want to take responsibility for its actions. As we're recording this, not only is it Black Women's Equal Pay Day, I'm actually in Hampton right now about to attend [?] activities around the 400th anniversary of the first Africans who came to America. In slave ships. I'll put it like that. And we still--you see what happened when the New York Times published the 1619 piece, where you have all of these supposedly legitimate, quote unquote, voices on the right come out, and they simply deny the reality of the history of this nation. Yeah, so we have a relatively easy time in America at least acknowledging issues of sexism. Like, we don't deny facts when it comes to, like, you know, the history of sexism, right? But to have people act like the reality and the brutality of what slavery was, to call that propaganda, to me, serves as a great example of the level of dysfunction that we are in this nation when it comes to really being honest around the oppressive nature of racism, not just in the past. We can't even cop up to what happened 400 years ago. That really puts a spotlight on why it's so important and why it's so hard for people to cop up to what's happening right here in the here and now.Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] Had to give you a Flex bomb. You're absolutely right. You're dropping straight facts. Now, look, I want to respect your time, so let's keep going. One topic that Living Corporate has discussed in the past has been respectability politics. Now, I'm a firm believer that respectability still shapes a large amount of the ways that we, as black and brown folks, show up in any space. What has been your experience with respectability politics in the realms that you engage?Avis: Yeah. I mean, that is--it's a big thing. It's a big thing, where people have to make the choice, in many ways, like, how do you navigate situations at work where there are sensitivities around institutionalized racism. Do you sort of call it out at the moment, or do you try to play the game and hope that it will make--you know, things will improve over time? I really think--I personally have a problem with respectability politics, and it may just be that I'm a rebel--[both laugh]--but really, logically I'm thinking, "What are you really gaining when you're sacrificing your soul?" Really, what are you gaining? And then what are you changing, right? What you're doing is you're legitimizing the unfair behavior when you contort yourself in a way in which you have to minimize who you are in order to be accepted. I'll give you a brief example. When I--you know, I've had my locks. I have locks, and I've padlocked my locks now for well over 20 years. I started them when I was in graduate school, well before it became cool, okay? [Cardi B "ow" sfx, both laugh] And so when I started my locks, I remember my mom told me at the time, "Oh, my God. You'll never get a job," you know? But at the time I told her, and it has borne out to be true, that, you know, if someone does not want to hire me because of what's on my head versus what's in my head, then that's some place I don't want to work, right? Because that tells you something about that environment, right? And so to me that's just an example of respectability politics. If I have to change who I am to fit in with you, then I don't need you, boo-boo. I don't need that. You're not the only place on earth. Really.Zach: Absolutely not. [laughs]Avis: And that goes for relationships too, but that's a whole 'nother story.Zach: Oh, my goodness. You're gonna have to come back for that one. You're 100% right though. Okay, so now--[both laugh]--do you believe that respectability has increased or decreased in this era of Trump? And I'm gonna say era of Trump because come on, now. First of all, this is my podcast. I'll say what I want to say. But two, it's the reality of, like, the fact that we live in an era that is, in certain ways--so I'm not one of the people that thinks like, "Oh, it's so much more racist now." America has been racist since its inception. However, or with that being said, there is a certain level or spirit of boldness that is in the atmosphere that is, I would say, unique to this time, but not exclusive to this time. With all of those different exceptions we said at the top, do you believe respectability has increased or decreased in the era of Trump, and what role do you predict it playing for the next generation of black and brown folks at work?Avis: Mm-hmm. I think respectability has decreased in the era of Trump, precisely because of what you previously mentioned. I mean, in this time we are seeing a space where, even though racism has always been around, it's not been new to America, it's been here from the very beginning, we are experiencing a moment where there is greater social acceptability, or at least perceived social acceptability, for overt racist acts, right? And so because of that, people are engaging in more racist actions in broader society, which includes in the workplace, okay? And I think that it's also created sort of a counter-reaction, where people are also becoming more activists in terms of resisting those behaviors. Now, people find different ways to fight back, but I do think that where there is an action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and in this moment, while we're seeing a rise in hate crimes, a rise in hate groups all across the nation, we're also seeing [?] and activism to fight against it. And so if there is, hopefully, a silver lining that we might find behind this moment, it is my hope that what it has done is it has awakened people who maybe had been lulled into a sense of false security under the Obama administration to say, "You know what? We haven't gotten as far as I thought we've gotten. In fact, we're starting to move backwards." And I just can't go along to get along anymore. The time has now come to fight back, and I'm hoping that's what more and more people are doing, and from what I see that seems to be the case.Zach: I 100% agree with you. 'Cause, you know, as an example, Dr. Jones-DeWeever--so I used to kind of, like, take a break--you know, like, let's say, like, in Obama's time, you know, I would walk outside, just take a nice little stroll, but see, now, in the era of Trump, I feel extra black. So I take--I got my menthols, and I just smoke right outside. Maybe I take some Black and Milds. You know, it's nothing, right? I might even put on a durag, because I'm like, you know? You ain't about to stop me.Avis: Put on one black glove.Zach: I put on one black glove as I roll a Newport, okay? [both laugh]Avis: Boy. Man, you'll be scaring folks.Zach: At my desk. While listening to "Strange Fruit" in the background. Listen--[both laugh] I'ma let you go. We're almost done, I promise. Here we go. Your voice is a critical part of everything you do, right? So you're a writer. You're an advocate. You're an activist. You're an educator. You're also a speaker, and you're a political commentator in major mainstream media and independent media. What advice would you give to black and brown women who still struggle to find their voice and advocate for themselves at work?Avis: That is such an excellent question and such an important question, and I think it's first critical--it's interesting. I had a conversation with a client about this today. First of all, you have to realize that you do have a voice. It's there. No one has the right or the ability to take away you, what's inside of you and what's for you, right? And so I think just acknowledging that your voice is there and that your voice has value is the first critical step that every black woman has to take. And then you have to say, "How can I best use this to create better outcomes for me?" Right? It's about speaking up when someone takes your idea and tries to pass it off as their own. It's about making sure that you negotiate when that offer is made to you and you don't just take the first number that's thrown your way, you know? It's about speaking up in that meeting and making sure that your perspective is heard. So it's about not shrinking in those moments, and it's then remembering the powerful being that you are and that you deserve to be there and that, 9 times out of 10, you're probably more qualified than everybody else in that room, so lean into that. And that's the only situation where I would ever use the term "lean in," because I will say that, generally speaking, we all know that black women have been leaning in forever, right? But what I really want us to do is understand our power and to vocalize that power and to not feel ashamed about vocalizing it. And if you do get to a situation where you feel that the environment that you're in does not respect you, does not want your contribution, tries to minimize you or silence you, then I think you should definitely look at other opportunities, because this world is replete with opportunities, other job opportunities and opportunities that you can create independently for yourself. And so lean into the beauty of the brilliance within you, and don't let anyone else convince you that it's not there.Zach: Y'all, let me just go ahead and give some air horns for that real fast. [air horns sfx] 'Cause those were all big facts. My goodness gracious. Okay, look, this has been a great conversation. I've had a wonderful time. I also believe--I'm not trying to impose--I believe you've also had a wonderful time, and--Avis: I have! This has been great. Thank you.Zach: Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Avis: I just want some more sound effects, that's all. I'm just, like, really all about the sound effects.Zach: We're right here. Listen, I got 'em all. Look, me and Aaron--I'll listen to something on YouTube and I'll be like, "Aaron, go ahead and take that and drop it in the Dropbox." He's over here--he'll take them little downloads and put 'em in our little folder like [Cardi B "bratbratbrat" sfx] You know, we got all kinds of content, okay? So we're ready. [both laugh, Cardi B "hehe" sfx]Avis: I love it. [laughs]Zach: All right. Okay, listen, y'all. Thank you so much for joining the Living Corporate podcast. Now, look, we're everywhere. I used to say all of the little places that we're at, Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever, but I don't do that anymore. I just say "Google us" at this point, you know what I'm saying? 'Cause God has enlarged our territory, okay? We are continuing to expand and grow, okay? And so if you just Google "Living Corporate," you will find us, okay? We're on every streaming platform. You can check us out on Instagram @LivingCorporate and look for us on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, okay? We're out here. If you want to listen and make sure that you actually can check out all of Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever's books and speaking engagements and where you can contact her more, check out the show notes. We got 'em all right there. Until next time, this has been Zach. You have been listening to Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever, speaker, educator, activist, mother of two, and all-around dope person. Catch y'all later. Peace.

On the sixth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, shares five signs that tell us it's time to leave our job, and she lets us know that the right opportunity is out there for us - we just cannot settle.Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through her socials! LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBCheck out Latesha's YouTube channel!BCC's socials: LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, FBTRANSCRIPTLatesha: What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Link Up with Latesha. I am your host, Latesha Byrd, and this podcast is for young professionals that need some real deal advice, tips, and resources to navigate corporate America and dominate their career. So if you're looking to upgrade your brand, get the knowledge you need to level up professionally for your future, you're in the right place. I am here with Living Corporate, and today we are talking about "Make a Move: 5 Signs That It's Time to Leave Your Job." This is an extremely important topic, because as a career coach, I talk to people every single day that are extremely unhappy with their jobs. Either they're not passionate about the work that they're doing, they feel that they are not in the best environment that suits, you know, their own professional needs, maybe they don't like their boss. It really just comes down to they don't like the work. They don't like the work they're doing. They don't like the company they work for. And that can present a lot of challenges, not just in the professional life, but also in the personal, especially for those that are working in fields where they feel like their life is just passing them by and they're just going with the day-to-day. That's not healthy, you know? That's not okay, and I want you all to know that the right opportunity is out there for you. You just cannot settle. We spend, on average, over 90,000 hours at work. That is a long time. I mean, that's a lot of hours, and we spend a third of our lives at work, right? There's 24 hours in a day. If we're working 8 hours a day, okay, that's one-third. A lot of us don't even work just 8 hours a day. So essentially you probably are spending more time at work than you are with friends, than you are with spouses, with your children. And if you're unhappy with your career and the way that it's going, that's going to spill over into your personal life, into your relationships with your spouse, with your children, with your friends. I see it every day. I have a lot of folks that I have spoken with where their unhappiness at work has led to anxiety, it's led to depression. Again, you're never stuck, all right? So if you have been on the fence about looking for a job, if you're not sure if you're doing what you are destined to do, I'm gonna give you some things to think about today so you can actually go out and realize that "You know what? Maybe it's time for me to make a move." I've been there. If you have followed my story or if you've heard anything about my past, I did not just jump into entrepreneurship. I did not just become a career coach and have been doing that forever. In my former life, I was in accounting. I worked in auditing for a public accounting firm, a Big Four public accounting firm. No shade to anyone that is in public accounting or working with the Big Four. It really is a wonderful, wonderful industry to be in with a lot of opportunity. It just wasn't for me. As an auditor, you know, I kind of felt like the IRS, you know? My clients didn't love seeing me. Whenever I asked them for some type of documentation, they were like, "What do you need this for? Why do you need it?" You know? [laughs] So it was not just that. It was just a challenge for me, because I am a people person. I love helping people, and I felt that every time I talked to my clients I felt like I was just bothering them, you know? And then on top of that, you know, looking on my computer, looking at numbers all day, like, my brain would literally be fried. Now, I'm so thankful for that experience, because, you know, I do believe that accounting is the language of business, so it has allowed me to be very numbers, metrics-focused. That just has helped me so much in my career, even in working through helping my clients think about tangible results and many, many, many other things. So again, just know that everything that you've done up to this point in your career, I'm sure that it has a purpose and a meaning and it's going to be a part of your story and your testimony one day, but you are not stuck. You are never stuck, and it really saddens me that I see so many talented individuals that, you know, are unhappy. You have so much potential. You have so much life. You have so much purpose within you that not only are you setting yourself back by saying or feeling stuck, but think about the many lives that you could impact and that you could change if you were to step out on faith, all right, and really offer those contributions to the world that you're meant to based on your passion, your skills, the things that you care about, the things that you love. So let's go ahead and get into some of the things to think about when it is time to make a move. #1 - you aren't feeling challenged by the work at your job. You aren't feeling challenged by the work at your job. Simply put, you're bored. [laughs] You're bored. Maybe the work is too easy. Again, you want to make sure that you are in a position where you're able to do your job well, but not to the point where you are just kind of twiddling your thumbs and you're uninterested in the work. Being challenged at work is healthy, just from a mental perspective. Now, when I say challenged, I mean challenged to the point where, you know, you are excited to learn something new. You're excited to develop a particular skill set or to learn more about a particular topic - with the adequate training though. I don't mean challenge meaning that you are set to do something that is literally impossible, but having a good balance or a healthy level of challenge is definitely going to just allow you to grow professionally. #2 - if you are unsatisfied with your company's work environment, it's time to make a move. If you are in a toxic environment, meaning that, you know, people are yelling at each other, you have been yelled at at work, you've been called names. There's a lot of gossip going around. People don't respect you. They don't respect each other. The other thing you want to think about too is all right, maybe no one is saying anything to your face, but if you are around a bunch of other coworkers that are talking about each other to you, I promise you they're probably talking about you, just not to your face. So I could go on and on and on about this, because I know we have all dealt with some type of toxic work environment. I just want you to know that that's not normal, that that's not healthy, and that's not safe. When you are in a toxic work environment, that can lead to anxiety. That can lead to depression. That can feel like you aren't good enough, when it's really not you, it's them making you feel that way, and if you stay in that type of environment for long enough you may start to internalize some of the messaging that you are receiving. If you're getting blamed for things that you have no control over, that you are not a part of, again, that is a toxic work environment. #3 - if you aren't satisfied with your salary or your pay, it's time to make a move. We don't have time to, you know, just sit around, hoping that more money's gonna fall out of the sky. Now, let's say that you have had conversations with your manager, right? And that's what I recommend. Let's say you're not satisfied, okay? So you talk to management and you say, "Hey, look, I have been working my ass off here." You know, you go run them through your brag sheet. You tell them how you've been able to add value and that you're looking for--you'd like to discuss the opportunity for a raise or a promotion, and that conversation was a year ago or two years ago and you haven't heard anything, and whenever you do bring it up again they kind of brush it off like, "Okay, let's talk in the next six months." "Oh, well, we have a lot of things going on here internally at the company, so let's hold that thought." Again, listen, that money is not going to fall out of the sky, so you may want to look for a job that's actually going to pay you what you deserve. The cost of living is not going down, right? But your skills, your experience, your expertise, that value is going to continue to go up as you continue to work and lead new projects and work with new initiatives and new clients. So you need to make sure that you are being compensated fairly and adequately for what you are offering back to them. This kind of goes along--#4 kind of goes along with #3. If there are no opportunities to move up in your company, it may be time to make a move. Now, again, let's say that you've had these conversations with your manager about wanting to move up, and they brush you off, right? Or let's say you don't even have a level or a position at your current company that you aspire to. Maybe you do see some folks that are in a management role, but you don't want that. You don't want that type of management role. It's going to take you realizing that, "Okay, I don't want to move up here," but you want to continue to move up in your field. You've got to get out. Try another company, all right? #5 - oh, and the other thing I want to say about #4, [laughs]--I had a friend I had reach out to me about this, but she had a conversation with her manager, and her manager--well, she told the manager, like, "Hey, what does my future look like here at this company?" And the manager said, "Oh, just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, just keep right on. Keep doing that thing." That is a sign that you need to make a move, because if your company is not invested in your growth or not invested with your future moving up in that company, then you gotta go, you know? And the other thing that I would say too--'cause I have some clients that are going through this right now--maybe there's not an opportunity for you to move up at the company, but you still want to just kind of diversity your skill set a little bit as you continue to look for opportunities. Maybe try a lateral move. Maybe try a transition into a new group, a new department, something new, just to, again, make sure you are being challenged, stimulated professionally from a mental perspective as you continue to look for opportunities. #5 - let's say the company's values are unaligned with your own. It is time to make a move. If your company is doing some type of unethical practices--maybe they're treating consumers, clients, even employees ways that you think are a little bit unfair and you have this uneasy feeling about it. You may want to think about making a move. I just did a presentation on working with millennials in Generation Z in the workplace, and through my research I've found that that is something that millennials and Gen Z really look for, is finding a company that has strong ethical practices and that they have values that are aligned with their own. Think about that. Think about that, because the company that you work for, that is most definitely a part of your brand, and if you don't feel comfortable, you know, really repping for your company, that just is definitely something to think about. Why would you want to continue to stay there to help that company grow when you aren't sure that they are, you know, doing work in an ethical fashion? So those are my five things. I could go on and on and on about this, but the other thing I wanted to say here is just trust your gut. Trust your gut. You are not stuck. Don't play it safe. That is self-defeat. There are a lot of other companies that would be more than happy to hire you. Again, you are skilled, you are qualified, and the other thing is that it doesn't hurt. Like, it really doesn't hurt to just look and see what's out there, you know? It doesn't hurt to apply and interview every six months just to kind of see "Do I still got it?" You know, just to kind of see what these other companies have to offer you. The grass may not always be greener on the other side, but you won't know unless you jump the fence or unless you peek through the gate, right? And I kind of see staying in a not-so-great work environment the same way that we talk about staying in a relationship. It can be emotionally, even physically, abusive, right? You might be losing sleep over not loving your job. Sometimes, you know, in those relationships, your partner may have you thinking, "You're not gonna find anything better than me. You're gonna be single forever," right? I'm not saying that companies are saying that, but I'm sure you all can relate to hearing something or thinking something very similar or even witnessing that. So again, don't let that self-defeat take over. Just see what's out there. Just because you're looking at jobs, just because you're applying, doesn't mean that the company's gonna call you tomorrow and say, "Hey, we got this offer for you, and we're ready for you to start. Can you start right now?" That's not how it works. It definitely takes time, but you're gonna have to push yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone to get there. So I hope that these tips are helpful. I want you all to be happy and passionate and just love the work that you do every day. I know I do, and I wish everyone in the world could feel that feeling that I feel. So if you have any other questions for me, feel free to reach out to me. I am on Instagram and Twitter @Latesha_Byrd - L-A-T-E-S-H-A underscore Byrd, B-Y-R-D. So hit me up. I hope these tips were helpful, and I want you all to just have a great day. Thanks.

In this special episode, Liz Sweigart sits down with Noah, a Latinx trans man, who brings us an incredible story of survivorship. He graciously shares the variety of experiences he's had over time and talks about how his identity over the years has impacted and influenced his family.TRANSCRIPTAde: What's up, y'all? Welcome back to Living Corporate. My name is Ade. So today, this conversation is going to be between Liz and Noah. We beg your patience - the audio quality is not the greatest, but it is an incredibly important conversation, and we hope you give it a listen. The conversation today is between Liz, who many of you are familiar with, and Noah, who is a Latinx trans man, and Noah spends some time exploring his different experiences over time, and Liz has a great conversation with Noah about what it means to be a first-gen trans man as, you know, he did not originally begin his interactions in corporate spaces as simply a queer person. His transition followed the course of his career. His transition happened concurrently with his career. It's an important conversation. I think it's an interesting one to listen in on, and I think it's also important for anyone who identifies as an ally to understand what life is like and what it means to exist at all of these different intersectionalities or all of these different intersections of identity and how that might affect your work experience. In particular, Noah illustrates his point with several anecdotes about his experience in the workplace and juxtaposes his experience with, you know, what others might have experienced or what they did experience in comparison to what the reaction was to his behavior in the workplace. And I think it's so important that as we--particularly for folks who manage others--that as we function within corporate spaces that we understand what it means to hold space for others, what it means to be allies, what it means to manage others responsibly. And with that, I'm gonna let Liz and Noah take it away. We hope you enjoy the conversation. Please send any questions or comments our way. We would love to hear from you. Thank you for listening. This is Living Corporate.Liz: Thanks for joining the podcast. I'm here today with Noah. Noah brings us an incredible story of survivorship. We've talked about how being labeled, being boxed in, and finding your place on the spectrum [?]--his story is so rich in terms of [it crosses?] race and gender and ethnicity that come together and create [an environment?] that is particularly challenging to navigate, and so I'm really happy for you to introduce yourself, please, to the group.Noah: Awesome. Well, first of all it's an honor. Yeah, I'm excited to [?]--you know, I always forget that [?] others' experiences, because it's inevitably [?] every person out there. So yeah, thanks again for having me. My name is Noah. Full disclaimer: Liz and I met in [college.] We did go to Rice University together way back in the day, right? [both laugh] So I'm originally from--I was born to Mexican immigrants, born and raised in Houston. Obviously did university there at Rice, and yeah, I feel like I've lived three lifetimes [in the time that I've] been on this earth. Went from, you know, coming out as queer in college to eventually moving across the country. I'm now in [?], and I am in my late thirties. I started my medical transition just a few years ago. I consider myself a female-to-male transgender man, and yeah, I moved up [?] for graduate school, and yeah, I've had a whirlwind of an experience the last few years.Liz: Yeah, "whirlwind" is probably the right [term]. [Over] your life you've had a diversity of career experiences. I mean, you're an educator as well as a scholar. You have--you know, you've done so many different things over the course of your career. How have you found that your expression of self has changed in terms of presentation across those different environments?Noah: It really, really has changed over the years. Yeah, I began my professional life--during college, after, we're talking the mid-2000s, and I was at the time out as a lesbian, and when I was working in a certain job--I actually started my career in the corporate world, before I became an educator, and, you know, I was seen as a quote-unquote "butch lesbian." I [tend to] dress in more masculine clothing. That's how I've always felt comfortable. But also because of the way that I would be looked at by bosses and supervisors, you know? I felt very uncomfortable even just trying to dress and present as myself. When I began teaching middle school and high school, my presentation didn't change. I was also out at that time as genderqueer. I was very afraid of students and their parents Googling me and, you know, finding articles about my gender identity, gender queerness, and how that would impact me at work. I, you know, obviously wasn't at the point of, you know, wearing ties to my job, but, you know, [?] or khakis and a dress shirt--when a feminine person wears them versus when a person who isn't feminine wears them, you know, it really does change, you know, the way you carry yourself if you're looked at as the capital O "other." But I have medically transitioned. I'm pretty much cisgender-passing, and I'm currently looking for work--I feel like the way that I dress professionally, you wouldn't blink an eye at me, where it used to be this just huge, huge deal. And I have a really funny story about a temporary job I had right out of college. I was working for a software company, and--I was doing data entry and data analysis for the sales department, and I was pulled, you know, from my little cubicle and asked to speak to the manager for a moment, and he went into this really long spiel about my presentation, about dress code, and--he [used?] the feminine words. He was like, you know, "You're a very colorful person. You are very visible." I mean, these are quotes I will never forget, and then finally, at the end of that conversation, I said, "Well, sir, what would you like me to do?" And I was thinking to myself [?]. And he said, "Well, could you take that extra earring out?" I asked him, "What exactly do you want out of this?" You know, I had an extra earring back in my, you know, cartilage [?] part of the ear. So I took that out and said, "Okay, are we done here? Can I go back to work?" And he said okay. I think I just made him nervous about what it was really about, you know? So yeah, that's a very interesting question, because obviously I've been through this really [straining?] gamut of experiences just for wearing collared shirts and slacks to work.Liz: And, you know, it seems like the most mundane thing, right? Putting on pants and a shirt to go to the office. Noah: Literally putting [?], yeah.Liz: And it's so fraught for people in our community, and it's something I think about as well in terms of "How do I express my own identity?" I've always--you know, I've always identified as a woman. I've always identified femme [at center?], but certainly an aspect of my identity has been that I'm not high-femme. And it's so interesting to see how we navigate this impression management [?] and, in some senses, for ourselves. There was a period of time certainly, [?] in my early 20s, where I know that I was dressing for me because I was trying to--I was trying to do something to feel like I belonged, because instead I was spending a lot of energy fitting in, and it was not working for me.Noah: Understandably, yeah.Liz: So, you know, I find it really interesting that you now, as you say, you really pass a cisgender male, and if anyone were to pass you on the street they wouldn't give you the second glance. Because you do present certainly masculine [at center?] I'm curious, you know, as somebody who was--you know, had a genderqueer identity, somebody who has always had the ability to appreciate and revere the benefits of the feminine--not necessarily identify with the feminine, but certainly to embrace the feminine. Do you feel that you're in any way now boxed in by the way in which you're read, or have you achieved--Noah: Interesting question. Yes, [?]--when I come out to people, you know, [?] the non-binary--I don't want to say the center, because that's--you know, outside the realm of, you know, the binary ones and zeroes. I do feel sometimes pigeon-holed as to, you know, what people expect of me. Do I [?], even in professional settings, to wear your typical masculine clothing? Of course, you know, but in my day-to-day life, you know, to be super restricted--not that I certainly want to wear, you know, hyper-feminine clothing earlier, but restricted as to what is masculine, what is feminine, you know, it brings to mind a lot of, you know, past experiences on what is acceptable of the feminine person to wear versus the masculine when you look at the same articles of clothing. And it's interesting that our conversation has already kind of developed over to just clothing, but, I mean, it's a very visible part of our community, and so it's a huge part of our expression. I'll give you another great firsthand example. When I was an educator, I one day went into the teacher's lounge to make some copies as, you know, we were often doing, and I was teaching summer school, and I was wearing, you know, simple khakis, collared shirt, and a pair of, you know, Converse sneakers. It was summertime and, you know, we weren't dressed as hyper-professionally as usually. I had noticed during the week that one of the female-identifying teachers was wearing a nice skirt and blouse with some matching Converse, which I thought was an adorable look, and that was no big deal. I wear, you know, a very similar outfit on the masculine end of the spectrum, and as I am making copies this day, the school director walks in, stands next to me, puts his hands in his pockets, looks down at my feet, and just stands there until I noticed him - which is a very typical managerial tactic in corporate or in any organization to let the employee know what you think without saying anything, which I've always found very strange. You know, he just stared at my shoes until I looked at them and looked at him, and he noticed I acknowledged what he was looking at and walked away. And I thought, "Well, this is so strange." The same simple article of clothing is okay for a woman to wear at work, but because at the time, you know, I was presenting as a masculine woman, there was a different reaction. And to this day I just find that so very strange and wonder, you know, now that we've progressed a little bit as a society, would that still have been a big deal today, you know? So again, that's just, you know, one [?] example, but should I today--let's say I, you know, end up teaching high school again for example. If I were to walk in, now that I'm cis-passing, with the standard male--you know, masculine professional outfit, if I wore [?] mascara and eyeliner, for example, because I felt comfortable doing that that day, would that be acceptable, or would that also cause, you know, [?]? I don't know.Liz: I think that's such a fair question, and I think it's one that many people are grappling with as they come to identify and find their gender expression as not fitting one of society's particularly rigid rules. Noah: Right. And again, we're just talking clothing so far. You know, we haven't even gotten into what it would be like to change your hair style or, you know, to do the makeup thing, whether you are a male-identified person or--you know, there's so many different factors at play when it comes to gender presentation, and that's just, again, gender presentation. We haven't even gotten into queer identity. There's so many factors at play that we could go into, so I'll let you guide the conversation. [laughs]Liz: Well, I so appreciate you bringing that up though, 'cause that's--that really to me is at the heart of our conversation, the incredible richness of the experience, but also all of the nuance and all of the texture. And the [?] of it--I mean, again, I'm gonna go back to the clothing, because I think one of the areas that I know I have seen--frankly I've seen bias is around clothing, and clothing that [?] to be worn by, you know, [?], right? Like, I've seen--I've certainly seen stereotypes played out, and it is a form--[?] What I'm interested in is your perspective on, you know, [a] son of immigrants, having a very strong Latinx identity yourself, one that I know you're very proud of for good reason, and wanting to express yourself, not just in terms of your gender identity but also in terms of your cultural identity. How do you see the interplay of those two things? Because for me it seems like an incredible challenge, particularly in communities of black and brown folk who are battling, you know, multiple biases and stereotypes around presentation of their queerness. And so I'm curious what you think and feel about that.Noah: Right. [?] A specific example of that intersectionality would be our hair, you know? Which has become a hot-button issue, even in the news recently, you know? You've got, you know, black folks who have dreads, and in certain companies or school districts or businesses [they're] told that they have to cut off their hair, which is a clearly, clearly racist request of them, you know? And so the intersectionality of being a black and brown person and, you know, presenting in a way in which, you know, you're proud of your own race and who you are on top of being queer just makes things, you know, 1,000 times more difficult. You know, when--for example, if a masculine lesbian was to, you know, have longer hair and then cut it after, you know, having been employed for a while by the organization, you know, that's something that I feel is still an issue depending on the part of the country that you're in. You know, to be a woman [that?] can take on a masculine hairstyle and to be a woman of color definitely affects the way that that person is gonna be perceived at work, as well as--you know, again, because I had the previous identity of a quote-unquote "lesbian" who had short hair, depending on how my hair was done, I would get different reactions from my bosses, whether it was in corporate America or in education, you know? If my hair reflected my black and brown culture--[I love to go to?] a barbershop, get my edges done, you know? These are things that people of color, you know, love to do, when we have short hair and we're, you know, masculine at center. Those kinds of hairstyles would, you know, make a manager or boss's eyebrow pop up, and I feel that those are those subconscious racial biases that a lot of folks don't realize that they have, you know? And like I said, you have that happening, plus it's a person of queer identity. You know, at that point--again, depending on [where?] you are, it [?] a can of worms with a lot of people's unconscious biases.Liz: I'm totally with you on unconscious bias around hair, and you talked about makeup and clothing, presentation, especially, as you said, as it pertains to those in the communities of color, because, again, you're in a heavily--typically a heavily white-dominated environment, and there is not necessarily a whole lot of tolerance for the other, and that is something where I think it's particularly striking to me when, you know, you Google, you know, "unprofessional hair," and you see pictures pop up, again, of dreads and braids, and--some of the most beautiful people I've ever seen, and yet the comfort of the majority requires the silence and suppression of the minority.Noah: Absolutely.Liz: So one of the things that you've never been shy about is your activism. [both laugh] And it's one of the things that I've always admired most about you, and, you know, I think [?] you've always looked for ways to really bring your story out and to make things very personal, and it goes back, I think, to something that--I think it was a joint class we might have been in together, and one of the underlying themes was that when you're trying to convince people of something, right, when you're trying to change behavior, the way to do it is to get people to believe in stories and to get them connect with people, to get them to connect with facts. And so, you know, when I think of your personal story and how much of your story you've put out there, I'm curious, you know, as the son of--as the son of immigrants, as a first-generation American, how comfortable has your family become with, you know, the part, in a sense, that they play in your activism? They may not--you know, it's not necessarily active with signs in the street, but they certainly are a huge part of your life and a huge part of who you are and how you express who you are. So can you talk a little bit about how your identity over the years has impacted and influenced your family?Noah: Absolutely. My folks are really, really amazing people. Shout-out to Mom and Dad. My mom especially has been my biggest supporter. Everything that I've done, you know, both professionally and socially, I--you know, I feel like a part of my activism, besides literally going into the streets and holding up signs at certain protests, has always been just to educate. I'm one of those people that strongly believes educating the masses has got to be the foundation of any activism. We're not gonna get anywhere without teaching people about who we are. I hate to use this word, but sadly personal connection trumps facts sometimes. If you know a queer person, if you know a trans person of color, if you know lesbians next door, all of a sudden, you know, you see a lot of cishet people realize that these issues are important because they affect real, real people. But yeah, when I came out to my parents--obviously I came out a couple of times, initially as queer at 19 in college, and, you know, my dad's initial reaction, verbatim, was "Whatever you do, don't let this ruin your life," and I thought that was a very strange phrase for him to use. And, you know, I talked to my mom about it later, and I realized what he meant by it was to not allow my identity be something that affects me at work or be something that, you know, causes me to be hurt by someone or to become depressed. Unfortunately, while that was a very well-meaning thing to say, it did impact me in all of those ways, you know? My father's brother, my uncle Ezekiel, was gay himself in a very small town in Mexico. He died just a few years ago, about seven years ago, of alcohol-related illnesses, which I believe was partially because of him being queer in a very, very small town in rural Mexico, you know? So my father was very aware of the impact socially that being queer could have on someone, you know? So he's been a big part in just kind of being protective. He's fully accepting of my identity, but again, he's a very practical man and has always been concerned about how my identity will impact me scholastically, at work, in just general society. My mom, on the other hand, has always had more of a--not necessarily a hands-on approach to supporting the activist part in me, but I'll give you a great example. I was interviewed about my genderqueer identity back in maybe 2006, 2007, and this was in one of the local papers. And she went to the grocery store to pick up a couple of them, and, you know, one of my friends was on the cover of this magazine--this newspaper was just, you know, walking out of Kroger, picking up these newspapers, and she said someone looked at her really funny, because the title, you know, was very obviously a queer article. And she [?] this person, and she said that--she said, "Well, my child is in this magazine," and just, you know, picked up a bunch more and walked away. Little things like that that show support, you know, socially, which I think--you know, little things like that make a huge impact, you know? Whoever was looking at her, [?] at her or picking up this particular magazine, probably changed their mind a little bit. You know, like, "Oh, gosh, I didn't realize." Like, "That's the reason why this woman was picking up a bunch of these newspapers." [?] in this article. That's a big thing, you know? And to this day, you know, whatever I'm doing regarding, you know, school stuff, [inaudible] graduation, getting back into the workforce. You know, my mom has been very scared for me as well as very proud. You know, as you know, I recently, you know, survived a traumatic brain injury, and speaking to my mom about that in person, you know, she was really very scared, you know? Her family was very impacted by that. To this day we don't know if it was a hate crime or not. You know, there was no video evidence. All of this was investigated by local police to narrow down any suspects and arrest anyone. So, you know, this assault is just gonna be part of my history that is--you know, it's gonna be this horrible mystery of "Who may have done this?" But on the other hand, you know, I'm so grateful to be here, to, you know, tell that story, to be able to, you know, teach my parents what it's like to be a queer person in a [?] world and to see them grow and change, [to?] grow and be [?] accepting and be, you know, just the model of [trans?] parents. I think it's what keeps me optimistic. At the end of the day, [?]--today for example. I'm, you know, never again gonna be in the closet. I'm never again want to work for an organization [that doesn't?], you know, go out of the way to make sure, you know, queer folks at this organization or place of employment feel safe, feel just as valued and a part of the team. You know, I don't see myself doing anything different. I can't even imagine, you know, being employed again at any place where I'd have to be in the closet or hide who I am, 'cause all that does is, you know, hurt not only myself, but it hurts the rest of the community, you know? Anyone in our community not able to be visible, you know, that reverberates out into the rest of the community. We feel that.Liz: Absolutely. And again, you know, I'm always struck by the passion with which you speak, because I know that 1. it just comes from so deep within you, but also I know how much you have loved other people who have had similar--you know, similar challenges. Maybe they did not necessarily have supportive families the way that you did and they struggled with, you know, academics, they struggled to find employment. And again, I'm grateful and appreciative to you for bringing up your [?], and I'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience. I am curious, having had that experience and knowing what the statistics are like for--[?] frankly around the world for violence against trans persons, [?] particular trans people of color--what do you think needs to happen from a societal mindset shift and change? What is the--what is going to be the tipping point when you think this will really be [battled?] in society?Noah: I think it's--the solution has--[because?] people of color in general, you know, sadly [?] part of those statistics, which, you know, infuriated me, but at the same time, you know, once I was well enough to rationalize things mentally, I was not that surprised. So I think the solution has to be at least two-fold. Trans women of color, especially black trans women, are the most statistically likely, and some of them are sex workers, because it is very difficult in this society to be a trans person of color--again, especially a black trans woman--and look for gainful employment without the discrimination that's rampant out there, so some people turn to sex work as part of a way to combat poverty. You know, it's a survival tactic, so we've got to look at poverty. We've got to look at systemic racism and transphobia in the workplace, how that impacts queer and trans folk--especially queer and trans folk of color--and their ability to just simply go out, work, and making a living? So we're looking at, you know, the need for--in my opinion, we've got to have a federal equality legislation put in. It can't be just state-to-state anymore. There's got to be a federal bill outlawing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity in the workplace, and that in and of itself will be huge in helping, like I said, trans folk of color working. You know, having [?] and helping with poverty. And on the other hand, you know, we've got to keep educating society, and keeping queer and trans folk in the history books, keeping queer and trans folk in mind when you're teaching anything, from musical history to, you know, American history, we've got to keep queer and trans folk in mind, not only in, you know, traditional high school, college education, but also, you know, in the workplace. Are we, you know, not only having these--I think the word "diversity" lately, but are we having, you know, diversity or educational workshops in our organizations? You know, are we teaching teachers, for example, to better understand their trans and queer students? You know, so it's got to be--you've got to have a nuanced approach to solving the issue, but at the end of the day it all starts with legislation and education. Liz: That is a very powerful statement, and I so am with you in terms of the issues with poverty and lack of accessibility of gainful employment and job opportunities. Because when you take away the opportunities for people to pursue legitimate work, then you literally leave them with no other options, and that is--I mean, that's just an untenable position in which to place people as a civilization, as a civilized society.Noah: Right. Now, you said the word legitimate, and I just want to emphasize that, you know, sex work is also work. I am pro-sex worker rights, and I think that should also be legalized in order to help people who are in sex work and don't want to be in it anymore, be able to get out of it freely, and also for people that are victims of sex trafficking, to be able to go to authorities and say what's going on without fear of being arrested for sex work. So that's a whole other issue, but it is, you know, unfortunately very, very related to trans folk who are in poverty and go that route. Does that make sense?Liz: That totally makes sense, and that's actually--I really [admire?] you calling [me out on that]. Help me. How should I draw the contrast? How else can I describe it?Noah: I mean, I think it's simply a matter of people finding the work that they really [?] to do. You know, if somebody wants to be a sex worker in the realm of, let's say, [?], being part of [?] or, you know, even--you know, if it's [?] boudoir photography. There are many, many different things that are sex work besides prostitution, so we have to look at it, you know, again, in a [?] way, and, you know, just look at things in the matter of "Why do people sometimes end up in jobs they don't like?" Well, it's not just--it's not just sex work obviously. Some of us end up in cubicles doing hum-drum, super monotonous things just because we want to have some sort of income to pay the [light bill?], you know? So just looking at it more broadly, I just feel like sex work as a whole needs to be destigmatized and looked at it as, again, something that some people do because they absolutely want to and something that others do, just like any other job, because they're just trying to find a source of income. So looking at it in a way that takes the shame out of it. Does that make sense?Liz: That totally makes sense, and thank you for that and for educating me on that. You've talked about your own search for employment. I mean, I know now you recently finished your graduate degree and very unfortunately, tragically, your next steps were put on hold by your assault and your injury, but now you are getting yourself back out there and you are looking for and pursuing new opportunities. You talked a little bit earlier about how you are specifically, you know, looking for organizations where you can be yourself, where you [?], because that's--you're out of the closet. And so I'm curious, how have you been evaluating potential places of work? Is that a privilege--is being able to do that a privilege? Going back to the topic that we were just on.Noah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, great question. I do take into account the fact that I do have privilege in certain areas. I have educational privilege that I know a lot of my peers, you know, just weren't able to have, either because of their grades in high school, not being able to go to college, or financially not being able to even, you know, get to the college they were accepted to. Graduate school, that obviously makes me, you know, hyper-privileged as far as education is concerned. So I'm very, very grateful to have been able to attain these things in my life. Again, I currently live in New England. I'm in Massachusetts, and another piece of my privilege that a lot of people don't have is the ability to decide if I'm gonna go home, back to my home state of Texas, and work, or if I'm gonna stay in this particular state. Right now my journey is keeping me here in Massachusetts #1, first and foremost, because, you know, ironically enough, I feel safer here, despite the TBI. I feel safer as far as [?] treated at a place of employment, whether I end up at an organization or end up at an institution of higher learning or back in public education. We just passed Proposition 3, which was legislation--going back to legislation being important. Massachusetts now has it in the books that it is illegal to discriminate in public spaces. If someone's gender identity or sexual orientation, military status, or so many factors--any of those things, all of those things, are now protected under Massachusetts law regarding, again, public accommodations, as well as employment. So as far as that goes, I'd feel safer if I were to work up here in Massachusetts, versus Texas where--and people forget this--you can still be fired for being gay. You can still be fired for being queer, being bisexual, transgender. You can still be fired in Texas [for those]. So that's been a huge part of my decision-making as far as geographically where I'm gonna stay. And also looking at, you know, different organizations. I've been looking at nonprofits, [?], and, you know, again, I'm blessed that most [employment?] where I could [?] are much more progressive, as far as, you know, treatment of employees. Not to say that New England is perfect by any means, you know? We've got our issues up here that we're constantly dealing with, hence, you know, continued activism and literally getting out on the streets and protesting, you know, awful things when they happen, but, yeah, like you said, I do consider my privilege. Also, now that I'm cis-passing, you know, I go to an interview now, [and] people listen to me rather than kind of look away like they used to when I was a masculine at center presenting woman versus now. And that's an entirely different conversation, the difference of how I get received and how much more people listen when you have a male voice versus what it was before.Liz: Yes. I think the patriarchy is an entirely different conversation.Noah: Oh, absolutely. [laughs] An entirely different one.Liz: So Noah, looking toward the future and thinking about, you know, your legacy and what, you know, what you want to create and [?] in this world and what, you know, what the imprint that you're going to make is, where do you see--the arc of your career, your activism, your journey--where do you see that going, and what is your--what's your hope for the future and for those listening who are still not able to be living their fully authentic selves in the place that they're in? What words of encouragement do you have?Noah: That's such a beautiful question. I do want to have children at some point. You know, when you said the word "legacy," I immediately thought of not just the physical things that I'll leave behind and not just, you know, words I'll leave behind, but I actually do want to have children at some point, and, as corny as it sounds, leave them with a better world than what I came in with, you know? A school I used to teach at, we had this statement - we'd always leave a place better than we found it, and I would teach the kids--usually just me walking into the cafeteria and, you know, picking up trash, or, you know, going on a field trip and making sure to wipe your shoes before you walk in and step on carpet. You know, it's more than just that. It's literally "let's leave this entire planet better than we found it," and so I've kept that as a mantra with me. So, you know, as far as that goes, I would love to--I have one book I've written of short stories that I'm seeking to get published. I want to leave some writing behind. I've been debating on whether or not to write a memoir or whether or not that would be--if I would be doing it for the right reasons or being visible for the sake of others and not ego, then I may pursue that in the future, but I want my personal legacy to be education [?], whether it's, you know, just teaching students, high school and college level, and impacting their lives in that way, or whether it's through my writing or through my activism. I want to leave more knowledge behind and more visibility for queer and trans folk. As far as, you know, this next generation, I'm actually so super hopeful when I look at Generation Z, which I think is what they want to be called. I'm not sure.Liz: We'll let them self-identity.Noah: We'll let them self-identity. Exactly. [laughs] Where we come, what I call the "Oregon Trail" generation, you know, growing up, we experienced so many beautiful things after Stonewall, but we weren't there yet regarding, you know, certain things, like marriage equality. Okay, we've got marriage equality. What's the next step? Well, we're looking at, again, you know, having a federal anti-discrimination bill that includes gender identity and sexual orientation. You know, it's been 50 years since Stonewall. I don't want it to take another 50 years for me to be--and my words of encouragement, you know, folks that are still in the closet and for the younger folk coming out as queer, trans, non-binary, keep fighting the good fight. There's so much left to be done, despite all of the things that we've accomplished. We can't stop. We can't get comfortable. That's when things regress. So we've got to keep fighting the good fight, and again, we need legislation [and] we need education.Liz: Well, I [?] on that. When I hear the word "fight," I definitely think of you and carrying the fight forward, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your willing to be so open and candid and authentic with me and with our listeners on this podcast and for really sharing so many of your stories, because that is how we are going to really get to know each other, and when we do that we'll actually really see each other.Noah: Thank you so much for having me. It really is an honor. Liz: Thanks so much.

Zach sits down with Cedric Chambers, the founder and CEO of JUMP Recruits, to discuss the definition of the term "diversity" and the concept of diversity of thought. Cedric also offers a few recommendations to CEOs and chief HR officers who want to see their organization become more diverse.Check out JUMP Recruits and connect with Cedric on LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and today is another day, another dope interview. Y'all know how we do, okay? So this is not--okay, like, we're coming up on--shoot, actually, let me say this. By the time this episode drops, we might be past 100 episodes, you know what I'm saying? Might have already hit the century mark. In fact, let me go ahead and hit these air horns just--you know, just in case we hit it already by the time this one drops, you know what I'm saying? [air horns sfx] You know, for those who don't know, Living Corporate amplifies the voices of black and brown folks at work. We interview executives, influencers, creatives, movers and shakers, the next folks up. You know, the real ones, you know what I'm saying? Come on. Like, all skin folk ain't kinfolk, okay? That's another podcast from the day. Those who know know what I'm saying. But we interview the real ones, okay? And today is no different with Cedric Chambers. Cedric is dedicated to enhancing the presence of diversity and inclusion in the workplace one client at a time. As the founder and CEO of Jump Recruits, Cedric partners with talented professionals and leading employers to diversify and improve the workforce culture within leading industries and growing sectors. Sound Man, you know what? We gotta drop some more air horns for Cedric. Come on, now. [air horns sfx] And I gotta add one of these Cardi B "ow"s, you know what I'm saying? ["ow" sfx] Just because. Cedric, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?Cedric: I'm doing wonderful, Zach. Man, you are amazing. That was the best intro I probably ever heard. [both laugh]Zach: Man, I know I gave you a little intro, but for those who don't know you, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?Cedric: Yes. Well, look, to give kind of the full but be quick about it--so I'm originally from Georgia. Not Atlanta, Columbus, Georgia. And so--actually a little small town about two hours southwest of Atlanta. Grew up, played football, went to college, did my undergrad playing football, graduated from Savannah State with a business degree. I did a little work, you know, in the industry for about a year or so, went back and got my master's at THE Ohio State University, majored in labor and human resources, but then immediately after I got my degree I went into corporate America, spending almost 10 years in HR in various areas in a few different industries, including aviation, medical device, life sciences, pharma. You know, I've had the--over that time I've had the pleasure of traveling all over the world, and I've had opportunities to live in a few different places across the Midwest and Northeast of the United States, and so, you know, what I do and the experiences I bring, right, I believe are one of the values that I hold. I have a wonderful family, a beautiful wife of five years and two incredible kids. And as you mentioned, I am the founder and CEO of Jump Recruits, and so just to give a brief, Jump Recruits is a full-service diversity and inclusion technology start-up, and it's dedicated to and about inclusion, opportunity, and successful career outcomes for diverse professionals and employers seeking quality diverse talent. And I've been on this journey for almost three years, actually three years, and like Charles Dickens said, "It's been the best of times, it's been the worst of times," but to be honest, through it all, I wouldn't change anything.Zach: First of all, man, you were talking about I gave one of the best intros. That was one of the best, you know what I'm saying, guest intros. It was just--it was, you know, comprehensive, right? You gave a little bit of the sensitive side with the family tip. You gave some of your vulnerable side on the journey with Jump Recruits, and then you gave a bit of, like, just the history of kind of where you're from and what you did. As a side-note, shout-out to the Georgia boys. I was actually born in Rome, Georgia.Cedric: There you go. Look there, you're country too, man. [laughs]Zach: Oh, listen, with a K. [both laugh]Cedric: And that's the one thing--look, we can talk about it as we get into it, right, but I've been in different environments and, you know, traveling across, and I have a deep Southern dialect, and when I go into different places people immediately, you know, hear that. And so we'll probably get into that a little bit later, but, you know, it's all good, right? Embrace where you come from and just be authentic.Zach: Oh, no doubt, man. And, you know, it's just interesting because for me--just because of my exposure. So I went to--I was in Georgia, and then I went to Dallas, and then I went to Minnesota. So, like, my accent kind of comes and goes, or the drawl of my Southern--like, my Southern drawl kind of will recede or kind of extend during--just depending on the situation, right? But at the same time it don't matter about that part. I tell people all the time. I say, "Listen, don't let this pocket square fool you, okay? I'm very country. Don't play with me." [both laugh] Cedric: I'm with you.Zach: Yeah, man. So look, we're talking today about diversity. It's a super common term, right? And honestly a lot of folks use the term "diversity and inclusion" in a broad swath of ways, right? So, like, for you though, what does diversity mean?Cedric: Yes, great question. So, you know, I would say that, you know, when I think about diversity and the term, right, to me, what I pull from it is uniqueness in every way. You know, whether that be race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, perspective, et cetera. You know, when I think about diversity, I think about the setting and context in which it's being applied and the term, because diversity can have different meanings in different places depending on where you're applying it, right? And so, you know, I've lived around. And so living in Atlanta, diversity can be different than living in Wisconsin, where I've lived, can be different than living in Boston, where I've lived, can be different than living in Ohio, where I've lived, but that commonality that I think of is uniqueness and what are you bringing that's unique, what are you bringing that is one yourself authentic as I said before, but I always think about that is when we want to use this word "diversity" and think about "Yes, things are different," but in a different way, you know, how are you unique, and how are you bringing that uniqueness, you know, to everything that you're doing?Zach: You know, and it's interesting, right? Because a lot of times when we talk about diversity I think, like you just said, it's, like, uniqueness in every way. In every way, right? Checking a variety of boxes, right? Just what does it look to be non-standard or non-default? And so with that being said, I'm curious, do you have any particular thoughts around the concept of diversity of thought, and have you ever gotten that pushback in your work with Jump Recruits--they'll be like, "Okay, I see you have all of these, you know--" "You know, ethnic diversity is the only diversity. [?]. Diversity of thought." Like, what do you--[both laugh] When you hear that, like, what is your response?Cedric: Oh, man. I'm not gonna make it through this interview. [both laugh]Zach: Nah, I'ma keep it a bean with you. I'ma keep it a bean with you, right? Because when people say "diversity of thought" to me--I don't know how long you've been rocking with the Living Corporate podcast, and I'm actually surprised we didn't get canceled off of this joke, [Cedric laughs] but one time--and I'ma say it again so y'all have the opportunity to cancel me again. I said that white people made diversity of thought in the same lab they made crack. [both laugh] So you know--so now you know the Living Corporate official position, and yes--look, there's nobody y'all can complain to. Y'all listening to the podcast, if y'all got a problem the emails are gonna come to me and Ade, okay? So be mad, all right? Anyway, back to this interview. So Cedric, what your thoughts on diversity of thought, man? [laughs]Cedric: Look, and perspectives, right? You know, I hear a lot of things, and perspective, right, you've got to understand people's perspective, right? And even what you said, like, you know, I can see the perspective, right, and that's the one thing. You've got to come with an open mind and an open heart into situations, but, you know, thinking about diversity of thought--so, you know, unfortunately I have heard "diversity of thought" and have, you know, seen it used as a pushback, and when I hear it it's typically used in the context of either/or, and what I mean is when I'm having these discussions, and, you know, we could be talking about, you know, diversity, we could be talking about ethnicity and these things, and they bring up diversity of thought. They're saying that either I focus on having diversity of race, gender, sexuality, or I focus on having diversity of thought, which is not the way it should be looked at, right? And so it should be viewed as an and, meaning, like, yes, you should value diversity of thought, and then addition value diversity of background," i.e. race, gender, sexuality, et cetera. But so many people take that position of, you know, "I can't value both, and so I'ma go with the safest way out and say I value diversity of thought as a whole," and depending on how long you let those people talk, right, you can get down into the rabbit holes of, you know, the common terms of "I don't see color," X, Y, and Z, right? So, you know, that's a whole podcast by itself. [both laugh] But, you know, when I've encountered it as a pushback, you know, whether it be clients, prospects, or just in general casual conversations, I usually approach it from the perspective of "Hey, look, you're right. Diversity of thought is important and critical to the success of the team, organization, and relationships," but then I always follow up in that discussion with the question of "Well, then how do you acquire diversity of thought?" Because how a person thinks is heavily based on experiences and backgrounds, and if you aren't pulling from different pools and different backgrounds which have different experiences, then how do you achieve this goal of diversity of thought you're ultimately looking for? And I typically at this point get blank stares, [both laugh] which is great for me because now the real conversation can start, and we can start on even ground to say, "Okay, now let's talk through it and work this out."Zach: Man, you know, that's a great answer, and, you know, I'll tell you what I typically say, right? So, for background, right, I'm in change management. Like, I'm a consultant, so, like, I'm having these conversations where people say "diversity of thought," I'll say something like, "Well, you're absolutely right. Diversity of thought is important, and it directly intersects or it is correlated with diversity of race, gender, sexuality, so on and so forth." Those things are not mutually exclusive, right? On the outside they're giving me the blank stares that they give you, but on the inside I know they're doing a [“and I oop” sfx], you know what I'm saying? [both laugh] They trying to figure out like, "Okay, what do I do?" You know what I'm saying? So I definitely get that. So let's do this then. What are some of the biggest excuses you've heard organizations give as to why they don't have black and brown folks in their organizations? I'm talking black and brown disabled people, black and brown LGBTQ people, black and brown immigrants, black and brown--like, just why? Why is that? What are some of the biggest excuses you've heard?Cedric: You know, I'd probably go with the biggest that I've heard, seen, and I think everybody kind of rallies around, but the biggest is that there's an issue with the pipeline and that there isn't enough qualified black and brown talent for those companies to pull from. Which is totally false, right? Zach: Yeah, man.Cedric: And it's like--I'm not gonna go into why do we keep listening to that lie, [both laugh] so--Zach: Well, I think--let me shoot you some bell, right? I think for me it's challenging because it's like--one, I don't think people, like, really examine or really have examined how offensive and insulting that is, right?Cedric: Yeah. Yeah.Zach: Like, fam, come on, man. Like, we've been here. Like, so--Cedric: It's like you're doing what you can do, you're pushing out the best, and then someone says, "Well, I still don't see you."Zach: Come on, man.Cedric: And that's where it's coming from. Like, it's like we got so many great, you know, whether it be engineers graduating, you've got so many great doctors, you've got so many great scientists, right? We're doing so many things in the news, and it's still, like, this message of "I still don't see you."Zach: And we're all over here like [what more do you want from me? sfx] [both laugh] You know what I'm saying? Like, God. Cedric: Exactly, exactly. And look, I won't be naive to think that there are as many people of color as there are non-people of color, so I won't bet that, but for instance, like, we know that, for a fact, there are less black and brown engineers that graduate for college every year than their counterparts, and the National Society of Black Engineers have done a lot of great research in this area, and they actually have campaigns going on now to increase that number of black engineers graduating every year, black and brown. But what we also know is that from having these discussions daily with corporate leaders as I do, these same organizations are not going to the places and communities where black and brown people are, and they are not effectively attracting and hiring the great talent that's already in the market today. And if I could provide an illustration for you real quick - look at it like this. If I want to go catch a fish, I can't possibly do that by casting my line on land. I must cast in the water where the fish are, and that's what is happening today. Many companies--not all, and I will say not all, but many are casting in the wrong places, and as I see this conversation over and over and I hear this excuse, the question that I often ask myself or that, you know, we must ask is "Are companies knowingly casting in the wrong places because they don't want black and brown talent, or are they misinformed on where to cast?" And honestly I think it's both.Zach: That's a--hold on, hold on. Wait a minute. [Flex bomb sfx] That's a Flex bomb. Yeah, no, you're right. I think it's both. I don't think it's one or the other, and I think really when you talk about these topics, it's often a case of both/and, right? It's rarely ever one versus the other. Because I've had conversations, and I'm--look, I have a nuanced opinion on this, right? Like, when you talk about sourcing candidates--and so, like, you know, you'll hear organizations say, "We're gonna just recruit at all HBCUs." Okay. Yes, you should definitely recruit at the HBCUs, but there's also black and brown folks at the PWIs too, man. [both laugh] Like, all of the black people--like, man all of the black people are not just flocking to HBCUs. HBCUs are expensive. Like, I love me some HBCUs. Ayo, please, y'all, do not cancel me. We love y'all. PV, I see you. Okay? Prairie View, we see you, okay? Texas Southern, we see you. Cedric: Savannah State. Let's go. [laughs]Zach: Savannah State, we see you. Morehouse. Listen, we love y'all, okay? I'm just saying I went to a PWI, and there were many black and brown folks in my space who did not know what they was doing when they graduated, right? So there's talent there. They're in the same rooms with Becky and Keith and whoever else. Like, it's both, man, and I don't know why, but when I hear, like, "pipeline strategies," I hear--I hear--when we talk about minority talent, ethnic minority talent, it's like we're not even trying to think about how we plug into the PWIs. We just say, "Oh, we're just gonna go with the HBCUs." It's like, "You can do both. You can plug into the HBCUs and then look for and look at the student programs," 'cause every PWI has one, right? Every PWI has some program where the black and brown folks have huddled together to say, "Pick us." [laughs] So, like, you just gotta plug in.Cedric: You know, that's right, and it's--the word I'm going to say, for lack of better terms, is laziness. That's what it is, and it's the--you know, being in corporate, right, I've done HBCUs, I've done the PWI. There is a stark difference between the two as far as the resources and opportunities between the two, where I was in a career fair at, you know, HBCUs to where you're talking 20 to 30 companies, a lot of 'em banks and local banks, a lot of 'em militaries--the military is trying to recruit, but then go to PWI, and, like, you're talking about 200 of the Fortune 500 companies in here vying for spots, right? So the opportunity and resources--and then on top of that, when you engage with HBCUs and HSIs and the communities--and let's say this quickly--it's that it's more than money. That's what happened. It's "Hey, let's go give scholarships. Hey, let's go out and let's see, you know, what we can do from a recruiting effort." It's just transactional the entire time, and when you think about big schools, right, to where--whether it's the PWIs, and you think about some of these big companies. One of the biggest differences--if you want to come to an HBCU or an HSI, I need you to look at this long-term, and I need you to look at this and say, "We're talking about money, but not just money, we're talking about resources," i.e. training and development, and there are many institutions--predominantly white--where large companies are staples on their campuses, teaching them the skills and knowledge needed to be successful, not only today but in the future. I mean, these companies have offices in their career development office, right, and they're talking about data analytics, A.I., machine learning. And these companies even have--some of their senior officers are subject matter experts at these campuses teaching the classes. Zach: Man, they be in there. They be hitting up--they tapping every avenue of that relationship like [Cardi B "brat" sfx]. [both laugh] You know what I'm saying? They light that thing up.Cedric: Exactly, exactly. And so when you think about all of those resources, then you turn around and say, "Well, look, let's give a scholarship to somebody," or "Let's go out and let's go to this career fair," and then they don't see you again for another 12 months. It's how d you expect to build that pipeline? How do you expect to build that relationship, that brand and all of the little things that come along with it, if you're not invested? Now, I'ma say this, that's not all, but there's definitely a lot that's [?].Zach: Man, you're 100%. So look, I'm also gonna say something else. Cedric, I don't know, man, what [it is] about this interview, but I just feel like I gotta keep it a buck today. We keep it a buck on Living Corporate generally speaking. Like, don't get me wrong. We be dropping heat on here, okay? Hold on. Wait a second. Shout-out to my team, 'cause, like, we really be doing this, you know what I'm saying? [Kawhi "what it do baby" sfx] You know what I'm saying? We out here, okay? [both laugh] But this is my biggest thing. This is another personal pain point, right, is like we gotta make sure that when black and brown folks--like, when we go out to these HBCUs and, like, we're doing this stuff, like, we have to also bring this thought leadership and take it to the folks who are in charge, right? So, like, we gotta be talking to the recruitment teams, 'cause a lot of times--I'll say in consulting, right? I'm not gonna say the firm. I've been at a few. So I was at a firm, and, like, there was this common narrative that there was an HBCU that we did not hire for, like, the client-facing stuff. We only hired them for the technical stuff, and the reason was because they don't really have the skill set, right? And, like, we would, like--I'm saying, like, the black folks, like, we would lean into that narrative, like, "Yeah, they don't have the skill set. They're just not really--" And it's like, "Okay, first of all, what are you doing? Like, why would you--don't parrot that out loud." Like, let's figure out ways we can help our people. And then two let's, like, just ask the deeper why and think critically about "Well, why don't we believe they have that skill set, and what can we do to help develop that skill set?" And all of the things that you're talking about are 100% facts, but I think it takes a--it's gonna take a joint effort, right? And I 100% agree with you. So let's do this, 'cause I know we're coming up on time. So multiple whitepapers state that before organizations can seek to diversify their organizations, they should seek to diversify leadership and build an inclusive culture. What's your point of view on that, and what does it practically look like for you to help organizations be more inclusive at the leadership level before you start bringing in, like, the campus level undergrad, direct hire talent?Cedric: Oh, man, great question. I think--let's see if I can get both of these. So when it comes to diversity and inclusion, my perspective and point of view is that they have to have it at the same time, and I think that there are different levels at which they happen at. Like, you could float heavy to inclusion but then still do diversity and recruitment and things of that nature and vice versa, but it depends on the organization in which you're in, the culture and what's going on. And I start with inclusion first just to kind of go into it and say, "Let's think this for a second and say, "How do you build an inclusive culture if you don't have any representation, i.e. diversity, from the groups in which you're aiming to affect?" And so--and without this representation, this means that there's nobody from these groups that are able to input on the design of this diversity and inclusion strategy. And so when you talk about this inclusive culture, you have less than 1% of [?] in the organization, you know, less than 20%, you know, women in your organization, how are you gonna go and effectively--and on a leadership level it's definitely not there--how are you gonna go in and actually do this if the representation is not there? And so when you think about diversity, you gotta "Okay, are we bringing leadership in at the same of building that inclusive culture and doing those things at the top and then pushing it down?" As it relates to leadership, look, I would agree, but it goes back to representation, right? How can you effectively have a diversity and inclusion strategy driven from the top down when the top has no representation from the diverse groups in which you're designing for? And so I also say this. We surveyed candidates that had been hired and had received offers from companies. 87% of those candidates that we surveyed say that one of the first things they do when researching the company they're interviewing with is go to the leadership page and see who on the page looks like them. And then--Zach: Keep going, keep going. Preach.Cedric: And of that, 60% of that group say that that was a major factor on whether they accepted the job or not. And if you'll allow me to go just a step further, one of the things we do in our consulting area looks at, like, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, and when you think about the top of that pyramid, and we get to self-actualization, the definition of self-actualization is "the realization of one's full potential." So let's think about this. How can I realize my full potential within an organization when I go to the corporate leadership page and I see no one that looks like me? And then how can that help me see myself as rising my career aspirations when I can't see myself on the website, I can't see myself in leadership, you know? I didn't see myself in the interview process with the people that I interviewed with. How can I actually see myself thriving in this organization? I can't.Zach: [straight up sfx, both laugh] No, you can't. Cedric, man, it's so funny. So what I've been doing--'cause I'm coming up on 30, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Whatever.Cedric: Big time.Zach: Man, listen. It's different, man. Things creaking now, you know what I'm saying? Knees be sore for no reason. It's weird.Cedric: I know. It starts raining and your knee hurts, right?Zach: Right. It's like, "What's going on?" Cedric: Yeah, it's coming. It's coming.Zach: [both laugh] But you're 100% right. Like, lately when I do--like, when I interview, right, when I have the opportunity and people reach out, whatever, I'll always ask, like, "How imperative is your inclusion and diversity strategy at your organization?" They'll say, "Oh, it's very imperative. It's super important. Blah blah blah blah," and I'm like, "Okay, cool." So then I go, you know what I'm saying, I go to the little executive page, right, and, you know, the board looks like--you know, the first, you know, seven, eight presidents like [haha sfx]. I'm like, "Come on, man. Y'all not seeing this, man? This is crazy. This looks like a bunch of dollar bills up here." Like, this is crazy.Cedric: [laughs] Exactly, but that's representation, and so that's diversity, you know, from a recruitment aspect, adding them to the mix, and then inclusion is working on the other hand, trying to make it work. And so you're trying to do both, right? It's almost like--you know, in some cases, right--I mean, I'm from the country, right? And so there's certain cases and certain things where you need to mix and you need to pour stuff in at the same time to get that evenly distributed, and that's the diversity, right, man? You pour the diversity in while you're stirring the inclusion, and you're doing it at the same time, with both hands, because you need for it to evenly get into the mix so that when you look at the cake mix and batter it's something that you can go in and move forward with, right? It's not clumped up. It's not over here. It's not--I'm not gonna say segregated or whatever the case may be, right? You know, things are mixed in together, but they still have their identity, man. So it's--you know, it's interesting.Zach: Let me go ahead and saute on that metaphor, that analogy you got right there. So it's interesting, because even when you make a cake--'cause honestly I thought you were gonna go with, like, a sweet tea analogy, but either way, with sweet tea or cake, right, you gotta make sure you add heat to that jaunt so that way it actually, like, actually comes together, because--and even though that heat might be uncomfortable or may seem uncomfortable, you've got to put on some gloves or whatever and you've got to put it in the oven. You've got to wait, but it's gonna all congeal for the cake--or you gotta turn up the dial on the stove to make sure it gets hot enough so everything can come together, so it can actually merge into one thing that you can actually consume, that you can actually enjoy. It's the same thing, man. In that mixing process, you've got to add some heat to that. That heat might be, you know, accountable conversations, you know? True planning around how we're actually gonna make all this happen, how we're gonna mobilize our inclusion strategy, what does it mean to, like, really build a culture of sponsorship for your organization, and then that creates that culture that you're talking about.Cedric: There you go, there you go. I'm with it. I'm with it. [laughs]Zach: Now, look, let me respect your time. I got one more question for you.Cedric: Go for it, man. I'm here.Zach: What recommendations would give to the average white executive/power holder who wants their organization to be more diverse but isn't getting the talent they're looking for--they're not seeing the talent, you know, at the executive level?Cedric: Oh, man. That's a loaded question. You said white executive/power holder. [both laugh] I'll say this, and I'll say this for all senior executives, not just white--and I'ma primarily speak to CEOs and chief HR officers on this one--look, if you've decided that diversity and inclusion is imperative to the success of your organization, then I think you need to take this approach. First, go out and hire you a chief diversity officer. That's step one. Step two: for the first five to seven years on this journey, that chief diversity officer needs to report directly to the CEO. Not HR, not strategy, not social responsibility or impact. Have them reporting directly to the CEO. This not only will have a visual impact, but it will solidify that just like finance, just like strategy, just like engineering, just like HR, that diversity and inclusion is imperative to the business and it has a direct line to the highest of the high. And I believe it was Steve Jobs that said this, and he said it in the context of design. It's that "If a part of your business is so important to the CEO, it must report to the CEO," because then only can that organization place the same importance on it as the CEO does, and so you're going out and you're saying, "Hey, we believe in diversity," but then the diversity officer is four layers down in the organization [train?] and doesn't have any say-so, power, or ability to go make things happen. But now when that person reports directly to the CEO, and we're talking top-down--they say, "Hey, this is the move, and this is where we're going," and that person is right there, direct communication can get things signed off, accomplished, done quick. That puts you in a better position to be able to accomplish that goal.Zach: Man, I love that. And, you know, it's interesting because I think that kind of transitions--that transitions that D&I space from being just, like, another thing that's, like, in the compliance piece into something that becomes, like, a strategy imperative for the enterprise, right? A lot of times when we think about diversity we're just thinking about ways to avoid, you know, this sound, right? [Law and Order sfx] You know, just trying to make sure you don't get in trouble, you know what I'm saying? [both laugh]Cedric: Oh, man. And also, look--so I was in HR, right? In every organization that I supported, you got the business leader, you got the HR person, you got the finance person, you got quality, you got engineers, but they're in that organization. And so HR is in every organization. Finance is in every organization, right? And so diversity is in every organization. The same way you look at diversity of people, you should be looking at diversity of suppliers. The same way you're looking at diversity of marketing, the way you're looking at diversity and how you're looking at your strategy, where you're going--like, diversity is embedded in every one of those, and if it doesn't have that same vertical as the strategy/HR/finance organization, then how can it have the horizontal piece to where it cuts across all to be able to have that impact and show up in the every day workings and doings of how people act and how they work and how they do their jobs?Zach: No, 100%, man. You know what? You've been dropping bar-bar-bars, man. Like, just [Mario coin sfx x2]. You know what I'm saying?Cedric: [laughs] I love it, man. I love it.Zach: Man, I love it. Now, this has been a dope conversation. Before we go, do you have any shout-outs or parting words?Cedric: Oh, man. Look, I would say one, you know, shout-out to Jump Recruits, right? You can go find more information at JumpRecruits.com. Look, you know, the team, shout-out to my family and my wife, and look, I would say shout-out to all of the leaders, the employees, the janitors, whoever it may be that's out there actively pushing diversity, out there actively pushing inclusion, whether it be in your small circle and you're influencing those around you or whether it's at a large, large scale. Congrats, and I thank you, and I ask you to continue, to continue to push and continue to be--you don't have to be an activist, but you do have to be active. And so, look, continue to do great things, and I just--I love it.Zach: Wow, man. Yo, shout-out--man, round of applause, man, for Cedric, man. [applause sfx] My goodness gracious, man. This has been great, man. Thank you, and thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com, please say the dash, you know what I'm saying? Look, we've got livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.net, livingcorporate. all of 'em except livingcorporate.com, Cedric, believe it or not, 'cause Australia's still got livingcorporate.com, and I'm like, "Man." So I don't know what we gotta do--Cedric: All of that. We're coming to talk to you, Australia. We're gonna have a conversation. 20/20. We need that. We need that.Zach: We need that. We need that. Look, man, if you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you've been listening to Cedric Chambers, CEO and founder of Jump Recruits. Peace.

Sheneisha speaks with Dr. Kennetth Joseph about what it's like to be a first-generation American or immigrant working in corporate America right now. He shares his unique insight and experiences with us and more.Connect with Kennetth on LinkedIn and IG!TRANSCRIPTSheneisha: What's going on, family? It's Sheneisha of Living Corporate, and today we're gonna have that conversation. We're gonna have that conversation of "What is it like to be a first time/generation American or immigrant in America right now working in corporate?" "What is it like to have a seat at the table?" And not only have a seat at the table as a person of color, but to have a seat at the table carrying the torch for your family, for your generation - being the first to do it. What are those experiences like? And today we have Dr. Kennetth Joseph, who is a pharmacist--a strategic pharmacist working for one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in America right now. Kennetth is going to share his insight on what it's like to be the first, what has been his experience, what has he been exposed to, and his outlook on being the first-generation American within his family to work at a corporate capacity. And if you guys haven't already--I don't know why you haven't, but--go ahead and give us 5 stars for the podcast, as well as follow us on Instagram. I hope you guys enjoy the conversation that is being had between Kennetth and myself, and just stay tuned. All right, Ken. So how do you identify yourself? We're speaking on first-generation American immigrant in corporate America. How does Kennetth--Dr. Kennetth Joseph--identify himself?Kennetth: Great question. I mean, first and foremost I feel like being "the famous first," as what my family likes to call it, it's just a blessing and an honor, and if it wasn't for them I wouldn't have made it this far, because they [?] me along the way. Now, in regards to how I identify myself, I am a Haitian-American. You know, my parents came here in the '80s from Haiti, and the rest is history.Sheneisha: All right, all right. I hear you. [?] '80s. All right. [laughs] Okay, so as a first-generation Haitian-American, how do you identify yourself in corporate America? Do you still identify yourself as a Haitian-American, or are you just black American, American--like, how do you identify yourself in corporate?Kennetth: Yeah. Good color and clarity to the question, because it's still the same. I make a good point at work, even in a corporate capacity, to make sure folks know that I am Haitian-American. Everybody knows I'm from South Florida. There's palm trees on my desk. Everyone knows I'm Haitian first and then American. I speak Creole. You know, at the times we play music at work I play some kompa (konpa), so I really try to embrace my culture and not let corporate America dictate who I am as a person and where I came from.Sheneisha: I definitely think that's major. I know a lot of times we can have the whole identity crisis in corporate America, trying to conform to what they would like us to be or what they would assume that we should be in that capacity. It's almost as if you identify as anything else outside of just black, African-American, then it's almost as if you're challenging the culture. Or am I a little bit too far off to the left?Kennetth: Well, I'll say yes [?], right? So when you think about [?], that's a bucket of everyone with more pigmentation to their skin, right? Some folks even put the darker-toned Indians or Mexicans under the bucket of "black" just because it's a color, right? The reason why I call out Haitian-America is because that's my culture, you know? Toussaint Louverture led the rebellion in the Caribbean that led to the rebellion in America by way of the Louisiana Purchase. So there's a lot of rich history and culture, so I use that to anchor myself, because it's that courage that I use, [?] my ancestors fought, that I continue to fight and, you know, kind of pave the way for the legacy I'm trying to leave on this earth. Sheneisha: That's real, that's real. Do you feel challenged by this when you're at work? Do you feel challenged when you walk the halls or sit at your desk or sit in a conference room?Kennetth: I do, honestly, to a degree. I'll say that, you know, working in corporate America, especially in pharma, you know, I have a [?]--I am a pharmacist by trade, but I'm the only pharmacist in my division. I'm the only black male in my division, and I'm the only Haitian [?], you know? So there's a lot of layers that I feel like I have to make sure I'm cognizant of, but I also try to [?] others within, you know, the layers of me, you know? Because being of a diverse background in a majority-white capacity, or majority Caucasian, for lack of a better word, you know, you must take it upon yourself to educate the masses. I feel like, you know, ignorance is a state of unawareness, right? So we use any opportunity to educate folks about our culture, be it African-American, be it Haitian-American, Jamaican-American, or even [pure?] thereof. That's why I really make a point of it. So if you asked anybody from the VP all the way down to the janitors, they all know I'm Haitian-American. Sheneisha: And then a first-generation American. So what influence does this have on your day-to-day interactions with your colleagues, being a first-generation Haitian-American? What influence do you think this has?Kennetth: I think it gives a greater sense of urgency. You know, like I said, my parents came to the states in the '80s. I'm the youngest of five. My parents actually had two kids that were in Haiti. Before they left, the kids were of age. They made the decision--my oldest siblings, my oldest brother and sister, they made the decision to stay in Haiti, so my mom and my dad came to South Florida. Once they got packing, made it to the area, and had to my two older brothers--excuse me, my older brother and my older sister and myself, for a total of five, that's when it really hit me, you know? Every time I think back to it. Like, "I'm my mom's last hope. I'm my dad's last hope." And, you know, it's funny when you go from the first--excuse me, from the last to the first. So that's why, you know, my family, they have the [notion of?] "the famous first," you know? So now I segue into being the first in my company as a first-generation Haitian-American, being the first black pharmacist on my team. It's a lot of newness, so it's--I don't know. It boggles my mind, but it also fuels me, and I think that knowing that I'm the first I have to continue to fight. So going back to that sense of courage, because, you know, walking into work every day when you're the only one that looks like you, walking into work every day where no one truly understands or sometimes even appreciates your background, but, you know, you take pride in it because that's your identity, that's who you are. So once again, that's why I try to educate folks, and any opportunity I have, you know, stopping by the bathroom, you know, walking to the bathroom or a quick drink of coffee, you know, having lunch, I always try to insert a little bit about my background, about my heritage, to better edify folks so they understand who I am, not just as an employer or coworker but as a person.Sheneisha: That's deep, that's deep. So you said before, and you mentioned I think, like, twice, about having to fight. What exactly are you fighting in corporate America as a first-generation American or immigrant? Like, what are you fighting against?Kennetth: Well, I guess I used the term fight because that's what life is, right? Life is a battlefield, and, you know, I have a competitive spirit, and I think [?] unlocks that competitive spirit when I use that type of word choice. So I'm very meticulous when it comes to word choice, 'cause words are the precursor to actions, but the fight itself is really just trying to understand how to navigate, you know? I'm big on mentorship as well, because I've been mentored throughout my entire life, throughout my matriculation in the College of Pharmacy and even thereafter, and I, you know, gave back in the same sense. So, you know, I'm a mentor to, you know, pharmacy students, business students, just folks across the nation either directly, by way of my alma mater [?], or folks just reaching out on LinkedIn. We hit it off, and they continue to come to me for insight and guidance, but the fight comes when, you know, the story changes, right? There's different phases in life, so growing up it was easy to get that guidance because there was always somebody willing to help, right? Call it more of a community-type ideal, right? It takes a village. So there's always somebody in the village that's willing to help, but that village you come from is people that look like you, come from the same backgrounds as you, have the same type of fight in themselves as you. You know, if it's an older individual, you know, they try to live vicariously through you, so they want to see you succeed. In corporate America, you know, it's more--it's almost like a lonely fight, you know, because since there's so little folks that look like you, let alone any [?] depend upon, you know, the division, the capacity, so on and so forth. You know, you may not interact with anybody who looks like you or understands you to that degree on a day-to-day. So for me it is a different sense of urgency and a fight, if you will, because it's a battle, right? And being the quote-unquote "famous first" in my family, I choose to fight. It's a noble fight, you know, because I came from a long legacy of fighters, going all the way back to the Haitian-American culture and heritage of Touissant Louverture, who led that rebellion once again. You know, I always make mention of that because it reminds me to rebel against the norm, you know? It's not every day that you see a first-generation Haitian-American go and get a terminal degree, leave South Florida, which is a comfort zone, you know, for my heritage and my background, go to Chicago where--although Chicago was actually founded by a Haitian Frenchman, there's not much Haitians in Chicago. So it's a neverending fight, but like I said, I use that term to kind of trigger myself to have that sense of courage and perseverance. Sheneisha: You mentioned about mentorship and being in corporate America and having a mentor. I want to do a shameless plug and talk about your Manhood on the Go foundation, where you are mentoring others as well--which I know you mentioned pharmacy students, business students, and those who reached out to you on LinkedIn. How did you come about being a part of Manhood on the Go? I want to do that brief segue. So how did you get into doing Manhood on the Go? Was it inspired, again, by you being a first-generation American?Kennetth: Yeah, and I would say because the actual founder is Iman Sandifer, a good friend of mine from South Florida as well. He is not Haitian. He is African-American, but it's once again that commonality of being from South Florida, being a first-generation, you know--I'll save his story for another day. Maybe he can share it through this platform, but it's that commonality when you're in the village, being that he came from where I came from. We had a lot of similar thoughts, you know? We were like-minded individuals trying to obtain that common goal. That common goal was, you know, breaking the barriers of the past and making sure that we're capitalizing on the opportunities of life. So I met Iman on the campus of Florida A&M University, and we just hit it off, you know? One of our greatest passions was mentorship, and I actually first met him while we were mentoring for a research program that was funded by Florida State University that had a research product that they were, you know, trying [?] comparative analysis on "at-risk youth," is what they call it, but it was basically kids that grew up like him and I grew up. So when he started the foundation and, you know, asked me to a part of it, you know, it didn't take much for me to just jump in full-heartedly and give it my all, because that's one of the places where we mesh well and we have that same goal. So now we just want to help folks that came from where we came from and are trying to head to, you know, bigger and better things like we are.Sheneisha: Look, that's powerful, to get out there and share what you've been given and to make sure that you're encouraging others to do the same and to go after things and having that passion and that drive. I think that's dope. That's dope. That's super dope.Kennetth: Yeah. I mean, it's reach as we climb, and each one teach one, right? So [?] came up with that name, Manhood on the Go. It's like--as a young black man in America myself, you know, I'm Haitian-American, himself a young African-American, but once again [?] is the notion of a black man, you know? We're always grinding, right? You know, we have that saying, [?], you know? It starts off in the village, if you will, and then once you go into your--whatever [?] you take but for others [?], right? So I remember I was going to class and class and then going to the extracurricular organizations, being in a fraternity, [?], myself being on a wrestling team, being a part of all of these different organizations on-campus, off-campus and the community. Always on the go, always on the go, but one of the things that we do is we put manhood first, because that's one of the biggest things for us, because we want to make sure that we keep that spirit up because there are [?] men looking at us. You know, there's qualities in him and I that other young men are looking for mentorship on, you know? So we always make sure that we're cognizant of that. You know, you never know who's looking at you. You never know who's aspiring to be like you, and, you know, folks may not always reach out for help, but you'd be surprised how much of an influence you could have, both indirectly and directly. So, you know, when folks reach out, it's a humbling experience for myself and for them, because, you know, that's how that connection is made, but even for those individuals who are just looking from afar, you know, that's that indirect influence that we're still keen on.Sheneisha: So speaking on influence, how do your culture impact your work ethic? Your work ethic, your relationships. Let's talk about that. How does your culture impact that?Kennetth: All right, we're going there. [laughs]Sheneisha: [laughs] Let's go all the way. Since we're here, let's go all the way.Kennetth: [laughs] I'll start off with work ethic. So, you know, both of my parents are, you know, extremely hard-working individuals. You know, going back to my upbringing, they have--well, I guess society would call it a blue-collar background, right? And I just remember my dad working tirelessly throughout the days, 'cause he was in construction. Like, it's a different beast when you have to wake up at 3:00 in the morning, be at work at 4:00, and you're not getting off until 7:00, you know? My mom worked at a hotel, and I remember growing up--while we were at school she was at home, and then while we were at home she was at work. So she'd work the evening shift because, you know, there's not much jobs for refugees so you have to get it how you live. And I remember her walking, you know, 10 miles to get to work during the hot sun, at the peak of the hot sun, and then walking home at night, you know, [through] crazy areas of South Florida. So it's a different--it's a different bite, if you will. You know, you gotta have that bite. I feel like I take those same work ethics with me to corporate America. You know, I'm not afraid to go in extra early, to leave extra late, just to make sure that I'm giving it my all, you know? I consider myself a subject matter expert in the area that I work in, and it's because I put in those hours that once I got to that point where I had that confidence to be considered a subject matter expert, that's when I put that knowledge to work, you know? It's always taking things to the next level. So to answer your question more directly, I think that's what my culture is as far as my work ethic. It's that grind, you know? No matter what your capacity is, because [?] a white-collar worker, but having that blue-collar background, that's what really feels--to me is the best part of being who I am, because it's a dangerous combination, but in a good way. Now, relationships... culturally? I mean, Creole is a combination of French and African dialects, so it's a combination of languages, and I feel like that French side of the culture is where the relationship aspect comes from, because, I mean, my parents were--my parents were lovers, you know? My dad was a lover and a provider. My mom was a lover and a nurser, and myself, I consider myself [?], you know? But I think that passion transcends into relationships as well. So I love hard, you know? Going back to that fight, you know, I'm always in a sense of the battle, right? Like I said, it's word choice. It's a play on words to kind of trigger myself to make sure I'm doing my best and my due diligence, but even in relationships, you know, I don't waste time fearlessly, you know, going out on dates and meeting folks. I take relationships seriously, because once again it goes back to the legacy I'm trying to leave, right? And knowing that, coming from where I came from and being where I am today, it's a blessing, you know? It's a powerful opportunity to maximize on this thing called life and all of the blessings that come with it. Sheneisha: Okay, okay. So how does that transcend your work relationships with your management, with higher-ups, with your colleagues. Those work relationships, how does your culture impact them as well?Kennetth: I think it's a good impact because my work relationships are strong, you know, industry-wide and within my company. In my previous capacities, when I was working for one of the largest pharmacy chains in America, I had more of a client-facing role. In my current role on the pharma side I'm more on an in-house capacity, but my previous role is where I built my industry relationships. You know, I was in a national position. I traveled all over the country, and now going to the pharma capacity, coming from the pharmacy world, it's a newfound appreciation for true pharmacy operations. And all the relationships that I built is based off my credibility and ability to be that subject matter expert. So they're confident in me and what I bring to the table, so building that relationship is natural. Also, you know, they often rely on me as, like, the consultant when it comes to things that fall under my niche, which is [?] pharmacy. So to answer your question more directly, 'cause I know I get to it roundabout sometimes, I feel like my culture, and just coming from that hard work ethic background, really provided me the opportunity to do my due diligence on the front end early in my career that allowed me to more easily establish relationships, you know, on the clock and off the clock. So I'm a genuine person. It doesn't matter the parameters or the confines or the time of the day, you know? Ken that you meet between the hours of 9-5 is the same Ken that you're gonna meet between the hours of 5-9, so.Sheneisha: Yeah, I definitely believe you should always, you know, be yourself regardless. I know it's kind of hard sometimes in that setting to be you when you're hard-pressed on every side and they want you to conform to the culture or what they have built and created, but going into that, you know, when does the switch happen? You know, when does the switch happen for you? I know sometimes they say we have the voice that we put on when we're at work or when we're around our colleagues, but when does the switch happen for Ken? To be you or to be who they want you to be in the work setting?Kennetth: Hm. So I'll share a funny story with you. When I graduated and got an opportunity to relocate to Chicago from Florida and work in a corporate capacity at the pharmacy headquarters, that's when the switch happened, because it--you know, I didn't always have this confidence in myself professionally. I didn't always have this confidence in my ability to [?] and, you know, try to edify folks with my culture, my background. It was a shock, you know? I grew up in South Florida, went to Florida A&M University [?]. HBCU, so, you know, came from a diverse set of people in South Florida. You know, HBCUs are known for being diverse with rich black cultures, you know, of all types. And then I moved to the suburbs of Chicago, where it was zero--and I looked it up on Wikipedia--it was 0.03 black.Sheneisha: Oh, wow.Kennetth: It was a shock, you know? It was one of the greatest learning lessons of my life, because it was at that time I had to make that decision - you know, do I switch to something new, or do I switch up the [swag?] of what folks do in that capacity. You know, black folks being surrounded by people who don't look like them, and try to conform to the environment. I chose to stay true to myself, you know? I call it my [enrollment campaign?]. Transform, not conform, and I made sure that I transformed into a new version of myself but stayed true to who I was at the core, and then that just continued on throughout the rest of my career up to date and hopefully until, you know, the end.Sheneisha: That's real, that's real. 'Cause I know a lot of times we get into the whole "impostor syndrome" or when you answer the phone, you know, in my environment, it goes from--if one of my friends calls me, "Hey, yo, what's up?" to if one of my colleagues call me, "Hi. Yes, you've reached Sheneisha." You know? [laughs] "Sheneisha speaking. How may I help you?" It's difficult, it's difficult, but I definitely believe you should always be who you are. And I love what you said. You know, transcend or conform to switch up the swag of who you are in this setting, to do it a different way and still be real authentic and what we call "keeping it 100," right? Keeping it a hunned. [laughs]Kennetth: Absolutely. And I will say, you know, there's a time and place for everything, right? So if I'm presenting different things of that nature, I will probably, you know, pull out some thesaurus words or--[laughs] the better jargon, if you will. Like I said, I'm myself to the core, and I feel like that genuine spirit is what has been the greatest precursor and potentiator of everything that has happened since leaving the highs of Florida A&M University.Sheneisha: That's real, that's real. So you're in Chicago now. You're working for Big Pharma, right? What has been your experience as a first-generation immigrant in corporate America?Kennetth: What has been my experience?Sheneisha: Yes. What has been your experience thus far? First-generation.Kennetth: I would say it's been amazing, you know? It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows, [?] and cream, but like I said, when you have that thought process of that fight, that noble fight, and also that bite, that due diligence bite--that's my South Florida coming out--you can maximize on the opportunity and have not just the faith but the optimistic spirit [mustard seed?], you know? So I'm not hard to please, you know? Like I said, I came from humble beginnings. I'm not used to making the money I'm making today. I'm not used to [having] a lot of access to certain things and just the ability to have the opportunities that I have today. I'm not used to it, you know? So I thank God for it through it all, and my experience has been remarkable, you know? I feel like it's a breath of fresh air because--they say it's lonely at the top, right, and I'm nowhere near the top mind you, but as I continue to try to climb this ladder of life, you know, I just thank God for all of the people that's in my life, you know? Surrounding me with great friends, a family that supports me more than anybody that I can ever imagine. You know, my family goes above and beyond in making sure that I feel whole, making sure that I feel loved, making sure that I don't let the stressors of back home preclude me and my progress in life. So I would say that the experience has been amazing, you know? Like I said, there's been ups and downs, but during those downtimes it's real minor compared to what it could be, you know? It's very humbling when you really reflect on situations, and you're looking at--you know, you could be complaining about something that seems so big to you in the moment, but when you really pause and consider and think about where you came from, going back to my heritage, to think about if I didn't make the decision to go off to college, if I didn't make the decision to pursue that pharmacy degree, if I didn't make the decision to leave the nest of Florida and come to Chicago for a new challenge, my complaints would be waaaay worse and probably more [?]. So even in my haste to continue to grow into the person that God called me to be, you know, life is good through it all, you know? I praise Him, I worship Him, and I give Him honor, because clearly I feel like I'm walking down the righteous path that was predestined for me. So that's why things seem to be working easier and easier as time goes along, but I continue to fight through it all, that way if, you know, somebody could throw a curveball, you know, the enemy tries to come after me, I will persevere through whatever case is thrown [because] it's just in me to do so.Sheneisha: Speaking of, [for] you to do so, having that fight, being in corporate America now as a first-generation American, what challenges do you face? I mean, we all have that upside, but then there's times too where we have the not-so-up, right? So what challenges do you face, and then how do you overcome or navigate those challenges, being a first-generation American in corporate?Kennetth: Got you. So one of my biggest challenges at times in corporate America is corresponding through the phone. I have a very notably deep, black voice, [laughs] and for folks who aren't used to receiving that type of baritone voice on the other side of the line for certain requests and, you know, for certain actual--what's the word, given directives as well, it becomes a challenge. You know, I've been--what's the word? I've been a telemarketer at times. You know, folks be like, "Wrong number," hang up. I'm like, "Uh, it's Ken from the other building." "Oh, oh, oh! Sorry about that. I thought--hey, what's going on?" [laughs] You know? Yeah, so it's--and that's kind of living experience in itself because, you know, no matter how far you go, no matter what you look like on paper, if you're a black male or female in America, that's who you are, you know? And then, once again, that's the bucket of everything that falls under black, myself being Haitian-American. You know, folks don't even know about your culture, so that's a challenging conversation at times. But like I said, I force that challenging conversation so folks can be receptive to it. So when May 18th comes, Haitian Flag Day, Haitian Independence Day, you know, folks know why I'm wearing red, white, and blue, and it's not because of the American flag. It's because of the Haitian flag. But that's a minor challenge if anything, but, you know, at the beginning it was kind of a slap in the face because it's like, "Okay, when is this gonna stop? When are folks gonna realize that you don't have to have that voice?" That notably Caucasian voice. You don't have to put on your Caucasian voice. There's a movie that I reference a lot called "Sorry to Bother You," where the guy in the movie, he had to put on his what they call "the white voice" in order to appease customers, and ironically enough he was a telemarketer. [laughs] But, you know, I just feel like it's 2019, you know? There's no need to do that anymore. A lot of ignorance, ignorance being a state of unawareness, as it pertains to black culture and even Haitian-American culture is being debunked because of, you know, small efforts of mine, when you just talk about yourself, talk about your background. And I don't force my background on folks, and I don't force my history on folks. I use that as a conversational starter, and then I ask them about theirs, 'cause, you know, there's a lot of time we jump to judgment that, you know, the white person in front of me is just white. They could be from France, you know? And that gives us a commonality right there. They could be from Russia, you know? They could have some Asian descent, but, you know, watered down throughout the years and through the generations, and you'll never know until you have that conversation with them. So the same energy I give in trying to edify folks and educate folks, I try to learn more as well about different individuals. I don't put them in that same bucket that it seems like society likes to put, you know, all people of black descent.Sheneisha: That's real, that's real. Education and enlightening is very much needed. I'm gonna navigate to asking this last question to you, and hopefully you can shed some light on this and encourage and empower the other first-generation Americans, but what advice do you have to give them? For the first-generation Americans listening, young, the first in their families to do it--as you said with "the famous"--what was it? Kennetth: "The famous first."Sheneisha: "The famous first." What advice do you give to the famous firsts or first-generation Americans or immigrants who are listening right now?Kennetth: The advice I would give--the first advice I would give is connect, right? We're in 2019. There is no reason why you should feel like the first and the only in any way, shape or form. You know, LinkedIn, social media. I mean, I can't really plug Instagram and Facebook as much, as I would say LinkedIn is the best--from a professional perspective anyway. I would say connect yourself, you know? If you're working in pharma and you feel or you are the only black person within your organization, your company or whatever the case may be, or one of few, connect with others like you within your company and outside of your company, in different companies, because it's important, you know? It takes a village, right? I feel like as we grow through life sometimes we lose that "village" mindset and think "Oh, we made it," or "Oh, we can take it from here," but it's a neverending thing, you know? There's always gonna be somebody that is in need of help, and there's always gonna be somebody that's willing to help. So whichever, you know, arm you fall under, be that person. So if you need help, search for it. If you're willing to help, help those who need it from you. That would be my biggest advice. Words of encouragement? Just [keep up the good grind?], you know? [Keep fighting?] the noble fight, because being the first, it's not--there shouldn't be a moment of contentment, because the moment you feel content is the moment you start growing, and I'm a firm believer that like God put the seeds on this earth, he put us on this earth to grow, so we have to continue to fight, continue to grow and reach new heights, and if that moment ever comes where we stop growing up, that's where we start growing out and supplying the world with new seeds, and that's where that mentor spirit comes. So for every question that you edify, help, and just guide along the way, they'll pay it forward, and that'll be a cascade in the right direction. So those are my words of encouragement and advice.Sheneisha: Thank you so much, Ken. Thank you so much. Listen though, guys, this was Dr. Ken Joe and myself, Sheneisha White, giving you the advice that we have here for first-generation Americans in corporate. I hope that you found this to be enlightening and that you can take this and add to yourself, but Ken, thank you so much for your time. I know you're super-duper busy, and you're so Florida. [laughs] So thank you so much for just speaking to us today and just giving us some enlightenment on being a first-generation American in corporate. Thank you.Kennetth: No pressure, and thank you guys for the opportunity. Hopefully it encourages somebody else or opens somebody else's eyes and that positive energy just comes through.Sheneisha: And Ken, can we go ahead here--we're gonna put your LinkedIn information down below, but how can people reach out to you if they would like to know more about Manhood on the Go, being a first-generation American in corporate--shout-out some of your information here and your businesses so people can reach out to you.Kennetth: Well, you know, I grew up in a generation that used to listen to Mike Jones, and he did something bold. He just threw his number out there, because, you know, some people may call and hang up, and some people may call and actually use it. So [feel free?]. The best way to reach me is area code 561-503-[?]500. I may not pick up the first or second time. I may not pick up at all. [laughs] But I definitely want to be [?]. Like I said, I'm willing to help within the confines of my schedule. I do get busy, so if you don't hear back from me right away just know I'll return your call, I'll return your text, or just try again, you know? Don't stop until you get it.Sheneisha: How about your LinkedIn and Insta?Kennetth: My LinkedIn you can search Kennetth Joseph PharmD, and that's Kennetth with two Ts. So funny story behind that, there is two Ts in my first name. It's not a typo. And what was the other?Sheneisha: And your Instagram.Kennetth: Not really on it, but it's still out there. So K3nJo3y with 3s for the Es. So K3nJo3y. That's K3nJo3y with a 3 for the Es. Sheneisha: All right, K3nJo3y with the 3 for Es. Thank you very much. We're signing out.Kennetth: All right, no problem. Thank you.

On the thirtieth entry of Tristan's Tips, our special guest Tristan Layfield talks about how you can make the case for something we're pretty sure all of us want - a raise. Take the time out to really build your case before marching up to your boss and demanding more coins.Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTTristan: What’s going on, y'all? It's Tristan Layfield of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I've teamed up with Living Corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. This week let’s talk about how you can make the case for something I’m pretty sure all of us want - a raise.Have you ever been in a job and felt like you deserved a raise? Well, you can’t just ask for a raise because you feel like you deserve one, you have more bills, or you’re just in a financial bind. If it was that easy we’d all be making bank. In order to persuade your boss that they should give you more money, you have to make your case, and to do that, you have to keep track of the things you’re doing or have done in your role. If you’re sort of lost on where to start with that, check out Episode 96 for my 25th tip on this podcast, Living Corporate, called “Keeping a Career Journal.”Now let’s discuss a few ways you can make your case to get more coins.Has your job grown beyond the job description you signed up for but it hasn’t been defined as part of your duties? In the project management realm, we call that scope creep. It’s a very common factor in why many of us think we need a raise. We get into a role, we become really good at things outlined for our position, and then we begin to take on other things to help the team, help our boss, or help the overall business. While all that is great and definitely things you should seek to do, you should also be compensated accordingly. Now, I’m not talking about the random one-off tasks your boss asks you to do as those are probably going to be covered under the “other duties as assigned” portion of your job description. I’m talking about the consistent recurring tasks that you’ve taken on that are outside of the scope of your role. When using this route, make sure to clearly identify and showcase the differences between your original job description and what you are currently doing to your manager to make your case.Have you exceeded your sales goals every month? Have you driven your projects to completion early and under budget? Did you streamline processes that generated more revenue or other business results? These are great examples of adding value to your company, and they are also great points to make when requesting a raise. When companies consider giving you a raise, they want to know how you have directly contributed to their overarching organizational mission. Document these accomplishments and how they relate to the larger company goals to show your manager the value that you’ve added to the company.This last option is a bit risky, and I would only use it as a last resort. Test your value in the market, and what I mean by that is apply to other roles, interview, and try to get an offer. If you land an offer that is higher than your current salary, use that as leverage with your employer to negotiate. Depending on your delivery, this could leave a bad taste in your employer’s mouth or your employer could decide not to budge at all. This is why I call this option risky, but I’ve also worked for companies that wouldn’t even consider giving you a raise until showed them another offer proving your expertise was worth more elsewhere. Sidenote: If your company is like that, you might want to just accept the new offer.Making the ask for a raise can be difficult, especially if you don’t arm yourself with the reasons why you deserve the raise. Take the time out to really build your case before marching into your boss’ office demanding more coins.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at @LayfieldResume, or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.